|
Post by luke45 on May 17, 2011 21:14:20 GMT
Before people starting shooting me down, I'm not a PHW, I'm not losing sight of what we've achieved this season, but tonight was just painful to watch.
I very nearly coughed up 38 quid for the ticket and 30 quid on the train to go, and I'm so relieved I didn't.
I accept it's hard to motivate the players after the cup final defeat on Saturday, and I accept him resting players, but I don't accept him showing absolutely no intent to win the game at all.
It was very similar to how we played at Anfield, a 4-5-1, consisting of long-balls to Carew, with nobody within 30 yards of him. He was completely isolated from start to finish with no support.
Why did he wait until the 72nd minute to make a change when the system clearly wasn't working? And why did he then bring a midfielder on for Carew and push Walters up and stick with the 4-5-1? We mustered up two attempts on target, and the best one was a 20 yard effort from Whelan that Hart comfortably dealt with.
Tony has spoke of his desire to better last seasons points tally this season, the approach to the game tonight didn't reflect that desire.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on May 17, 2011 21:15:42 GMT
I suspect TP wrote this game off and will concentrate all efforts on Wigan.
And barring 2 diabolical decision it would still have been 1-0 and then maybe TP would have bought Jones on and gone for it a bit? The game gone at 2-0.
|
|
|
Post by Beloved Monkfish on May 17, 2011 21:17:16 GMT
Before people starting shooting me down, I'm not a PHW, I'm not losing sight of what we've achieved this season, but tonight was just painful to watch. I very nearly coughed up 38 quid for the ticket and 30 quid on the train to go, and I'm so relieved I didn't. I accept it's hard to motivate the players after the cup final defeat on Saturday, and I accept him resting players, but I don't accept him showing absolutely no intent to win the game at all. It was very similar to how we played at Anfield, a 4-5-1, consisting of long-balls to Carew, with nobody within 30 yards of him. He was completely isolated from start to finish with no support. Why did he wait until the 72nd minute to make a change when the system clearly wasn't working? And why did he then bring a midfielder on for Carew and push Walters up and stick with the 4-5-1? We mustered up two attempts on target, and the best one was a 20 yard effort from Whelan that Hart comfortably dealt with. Tony has spoke of his desire to better last seasons points tally this season, the approach to the game tonight didn't reflect that desire. Oh well, let's just look forward to next season ey
|
|
|
Post by sufolkstokie on May 17, 2011 21:17:18 GMT
Chelsea at home, Wolves at home, Arsenal at HOME - spot the trend and Bolton summed up why I really rate the bloke
Cardiif away (yes I know we won), Fulham away, Liverpool away, West Ham away and first time I didnt go this season Man City away summ up why the bloke does me nut in - the most bizzare subs yet again
|
|
|
Post by jbstokie on May 17, 2011 21:17:45 GMT
Spot on Bayern. There's been a few times this season where the game plan's been disrupted by these sort of decisions. The only problem is there was no plan B
|
|
|
Post by march4 on May 17, 2011 21:17:46 GMT
What did you expect?
Ethers and Huth won't play again this season due to injury.
JP has been kicked off the pitch last 2 games.
Rory hobbled off on Saturday
KJ was injured by the Arseholes and was a doubt for the Cup Final.
Who else could we have played???
Under the circumstances a 3 goal defeat was disappointing but not the sort of defeat that would have dropped us a place in the league.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2011 21:17:49 GMT
He's pinned all his hopes on the Wigan game to get us the 3 pts that will cement 9th spot and rightly so. We were never going to win tonight and it was about damage limitation. Frustrating I know when you've paid £38 but it's about the bigger picture. Pennant, Jones and possibly Huth and Etherington will come back and the players will be up for the game I have no doubt.
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 17, 2011 21:18:59 GMT
Thought we were OK first half. Second half was woeful. Lets be honest, since we won at Blackburn over Christmas we have been shocking on the road. For me, one of the key reasons for this is our complete inablity to keep the ball for any sustained period of time. We must remedy this next season.
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on May 17, 2011 21:21:07 GMT
Easy for me to say not having shelled out a fortune, but I haven't got a problem with it. And, first half, we were comfortable(ish)
He wants the 3pts against Wigan to bring home the prize money, and wrote tonight off.
Taking away Huth, Higginbotham, Pennant, Etherington, Fuller and Jones from us is like cutting off Ron Jeremy's todger.
What you're left with is not very inspiring.
|
|
|
Post by droz on May 17, 2011 21:21:58 GMT
It is frustrating, but I don't quite think we're back to the dark days of Gerry McMahon up front on his own just yet - we're in the top half of the Premier League and have just been to Wembley for the FA Cup Final. I'd have just taken that at the start of the season. We'll put on a show on Sunday to send Wigan down.
|
|
|
Post by robinplumpton on May 17, 2011 21:21:59 GMT
Whatever the rights or wrongs of tonights team selection. It would have been interesting if TPs' mate Arry still needed us to get a result at City. Would our team selection/tactics have been different?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2011 21:23:03 GMT
Thought we were OK first half. Second half was woeful. Lets be honest, since we won at Blackburn over Christmas we have been shocking on the road. For me, one of the key reasons for this is our complete inablity to keep the ball for any sustained period of time. We must remedy this next season. I agree and thats why our Summer signings will be vital. We must get centre mids who are not just ball winners but are comfortable with the ball at their feet. We have Ethers and Jermaine who are happy to hold the ball and can pass it and we must find centre mids of a similar ilk.
|
|
|
Post by Davef on May 17, 2011 21:23:28 GMT
If you expected anything other than a pretty comprehensive defeat tonight, then you're living in cloud cuckoo loud.
Arsenal's defeat on Saturday meant that Mancini was always going to field his strongest team tonight with that lucrative third automatic Champions League place up for grabs, while we were always going to be without Etherington, Huth, Pennant and almost certainly Jones. With Diao, Whitehead and Collins drafted in what were you expecting, seriously?
We gave it a go. Our cause wasn't helped by the performance of one of the Premier League's worst referee's but there's absolutely no point getting wound up about tonight's game.
TP is clearly targeting Sunday's game in which three points will almost certainly guarantee us an eighth place finish, our highest league place for 36 years and over £10M in prize money.
Hopefully we'll get the job done on Sunday and be able to reflect on a great season.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2011 21:23:52 GMT
Before people starting shooting me down, I'm not a PHW, I'm not losing sight of what we've achieved this season, but tonight was just painful to watch. I very nearly coughed up 38 quid for the ticket and 30 quid on the train to go, and I'm so relieved I didn't. I accept it's hard to motivate the players after the cup final defeat on Saturday, and I accept him resting players, but I don't accept him showing absolutely no intent to win the game at all. It was very similar to how we played at Anfield, a 4-5-1, consisting of long-balls to Carew, with nobody within 30 yards of him. He was completely isolated from start to finish with no support. Why did he wait until the 72nd minute to make a change when the system clearly wasn't working? And why did he then bring a midfielder on for Carew and push Walters up and stick with the 4-5-1? We mustered up two attempts on target, and the best one was a 20 yard effort from Whelan that Hart comfortably dealt with. Tony has spoke of his desire to better last seasons points tally this season, the approach to the game tonight didn't reflect that desire. Whilst agree with alot of what your saying luke surely when you saw the team for tonight you didn't expect any other?I was at Fulham and Liverpool and i honestly still believe in those 2 games TP was content in keeping the score down and you could say the same tonight.Without Etherington and Pennant we offer very very little especially in away games and i also concur with alot of other people's thoughts that tonight shows just how threadbare our squad is when it comes to good quality back up players.The summer for me is a very important time for the club because alot of players need moving out if we are to progress in all competitions and especially away games.
|
|
|
Post by Squeekster on May 17, 2011 21:24:25 GMT
He still could of played players like Culiver instead of Soares or Tonge who we'll ship out in the summer.
|
|
|
Post by luke45 on May 17, 2011 21:24:28 GMT
And barring 2 diabolical decision it would still have been 1-0 and then maybe TP would have bought Jones on and gone for it a bit? The game gone at 2-0. We were on the receiving end of some shocking decisions tonight, I agree, and perhaps he would've fetched Kenwyne earlier if it was still 1-0, but we just never seemed to show any ambition from the first minute to the last. I really can't see any sense behind refusing to change a system that isn't working when you are losing the game. I just hope we get a response on Sunday.
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 17, 2011 21:24:29 GMT
Easy for me to say not having shelled out a fortune, but I haven't got a problem with it. And, first half, we were comfortable(ish) He wants the 3pts against Wigan to bring home the prize money, and wrote tonight off. Taking away Huth, Higginbotham, Pennant, Etherington, Fuller and Jones from us is like cutting off Ron Jeremy's todger.
What you're left with is not very inspiring. ;D ;D ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by march4 on May 17, 2011 21:24:47 GMT
Look at the bigger picture.
Tonight has hammered another nail into Wenger's coffin.
We win on Sunday to; a) ensure at least 9th spot b) TP helps out his mates; Mad Mick and Olly
|
|
|
Post by Bognor Stokie on May 17, 2011 21:25:02 GMT
I don't agree - the approach was evidently defendable due to injuries, tiredness and our paper thin squad compared to CITEH who are chock full of quality players. Get over it ... move on to Wigwam and hope that the summer brings the improvements we need in quantity of quality players who Tone can mould for the next campaign ;o)
|
|
|
Post by Squeekster on May 17, 2011 21:26:03 GMT
If you expected anything other than a pretty comprehensive defeat tonight, then you're living in cloud cuckoo loud. Arsenal's defeat on Saturday meant that Mancini was always going to field his strongest team tonight with that lucrative third automatic Champions League place up for grabs, while we were always going to be without Etherington, Huth, Pennant and almost certainly Jones. With Diao, Whitehead and Collins drafted in what were you expecting, seriously? We gave it a go. Our cause wasn't helped by the performance of one of the Premier League's worst referee's but there's absolutely no point getting wound up about tonight's game. TP is clearly targeting Sunday's game in which three points will almost certainly guarantee us an eighth place finish, our highest league place for 36 years and over £10M in prize money. Hopefully we'll get the job done on Sunday and be able to reflect on a great season. That was still a pretty poor team Dave.
|
|
|
Post by march4 on May 17, 2011 21:27:18 GMT
If you expected anything other than a pretty comprehensive defeat tonight, then you're living in cloud cuckoo loud. Arsenal's defeat on Saturday meant that Mancini was always going to field his strongest team tonight with that lucrative third automatic Champions League place up for grabs, while we were always going to be without Etherington, Huth, Pennant and almost certainly Jones. With Diao, Whitehead and Collins drafted in what were you expecting, seriously? We gave it a go. Our cause wasn't helped by the performance of one of the Premier League's worst referee's but there's absolutely no point getting wound up about tonight's game. TP is clearly targeting Sunday's game in which three points will almost certainly guarantee us an eighth place finish, our highest league place for 36 years and over £10M in prize money. Hopefully we'll get the job done on Sunday and be able to reflect on a great season. Spot on, mate
|
|
|
Post by therethere on May 17, 2011 21:28:27 GMT
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on May 17, 2011 21:28:56 GMT
In reply to the opening post - read what Davef said and the is your defence in a nutshell. There was nothing more that could be done tonight without putting our chances at risk in the much more winnable game on Sunday. Sound sensible approach.
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on May 17, 2011 21:35:37 GMT
Thought we were OK first half. Second half was woeful. Lets be honest, since we won at Blackburn over Christmas we have been shocking on the road. For me, one of the key reasons for this is our complete inability to keep the ball for any sustained period of time. We must remedy this next season. I agree and thats why our Summer signings will be vital. We must get centre mids who are not just ball winners but are comfortable with the ball at their feet. We have Ethers and Jermaine who are happy to hold the ball and can pass it and we must find centre mids of a similar ilk. Your right. I have no problem whatsoever with the way we play at home, when both wingers are on and we play with a good tempo its exhilarating to watch. Away from home, its a chore. The same lion hearts that we see at the Brit become timid mice. We had no chance tonight, it was over before it started, and I`m not overly fussed. But our away performances this season have generally been crap, why do we see such contrasting performances, is it fear, a minsdet, tactics, or what??
|
|
|
Post by AlliG on May 17, 2011 21:39:08 GMT
I am left scratching my head about some people tonight.
I am sure I am not the only person still drained after Saturday, so I think you would be daft to expect the players to be able to lift themselves again so quickly for one of the toughest away games of the season.
I was half expecting a right tonking tonight.
My Arsenal supporting boss optimistically asked me if we could get a result tonight. I told him "yes". Anything less than 4-0 will be a result because it will keep us in 9th place and give us a great chance to finish Top 10. Don't think he was too happy. ;D
If one or two of our squad players were a bit better, I think we would have played even less of Saturday's team.
|
|
|
Post by Davef on May 17, 2011 21:40:46 GMT
Anything more than a 3-0 defeat tonight would've put us below Bolton, so we're almost certainly guaranteed to finish above them (that's £750,000 for a start) regardless of how we do on Sunday because they're playing Man City, who aren't going to pass up this opportunity now.
Let's not write off the possibility of a defeat on Sunday however. As committed as our lads will be to finish off the season on a high, we're still licking our wounds from the Cup Final and as great as it would be to finish in eight place and earn ourselves £10M, we're still going to win at least £7.5M. Compare that to what Wigan stand to lose if they go down on Sunday. They're going to be well up for it and it's going to be a really tough game.
Newcastle and West Brom play each other on Sunday so one or both of them could finish above us, as could Villa and Sunderland if they win their games against Liverpool and West Ham respectively.
So it's perfectly acceptable in my eyes that TP has rested the likes of Pennant, Delap and Jones tonight and gone in with a game plan to try and keep the score down. He's been rightly criticised for adopting that attitude at various times this season, but there should be no recriminations tonight.
|
|
|
Post by lurcherman on May 17, 2011 21:44:40 GMT
Did anyone really think our reserves could match their first team.
|
|
|
Post by Davef on May 17, 2011 21:46:03 GMT
Did anyone really think our reserves could match their first team. Great song.
|
|
|
Post by lurcherman on May 17, 2011 21:48:47 GMT
Did anyone really think our reserves could match their first team. Great song. Great band
|
|
|
Post by sufolkstokie on May 17, 2011 21:49:58 GMT
Anything more than a 3-0 defeat tonight would've put us below Bolton, so we're almost certainly guaranteed to finish above them (that's £750,000 for a start) regardless of how we do on Sunday because they're playing Man City, who aren't going to pass up this opportunity now. Let's not write off the possibility of a defeat on Sunday however. As committed as our lads will be to finish off the season on a high, we're still licking our wounds from the Cup Final and as great as it would be to finish in eight place and earn ourselves £10M, we're still going to win at least £7.5M. Compare that to what Wigan stand to lose if they go down on Sunday. They're going to be well up for it and it's going to be a really tough game. Newcastle and West Brom play each other on Sunday so one or both of them could finish above us, as could Villa and Sunderland if they win their games against Liverpool and West Ham respectively. So it's perfectly acceptable in my eyes that TP has rested the likes of Pennant, Delap and Jones tonight and gone in with a game plan to try and keep the score down. He's been rightly criticised for adopting that attitude at various times this season, but there should be no recriminations tonight. Agree with all that, but I dont see why people mouth off at other people when they are distraught at losing - nowt wrong with a bit of passion when you see your team lose - A Tatlock's response aside of course First away game I have missed for awhile and I know how it feels re WHU, Fulham etc Overall - great, nay fabulous season - tonight not good and indeeed most of our away matches
|
|