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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 16:05:17 GMT
I've just received a questionaire signed by the man of the people Dave Cameron headlined: Securing The Future For Hardworking Tax Payers.... Reducing the deficit, already by more than a third Cutting income tax for 25million people Creating more jobs Freezing fuel duty Capping welfare Delivering the best schools for young people Delivering the best skills training Secured a cut in the EU budget and vetoed the EU fiscal treaty Reducing immigration Crime is down by more than 10%  He's a funny guy? the tories are quick to point out any positives, but forget to mention how bad the figures were due to the recession[which they blame labour for yet I thought it was a world wide recession?] therefore they are bound to look good when the bar is set so low. perhaps a tory mp will inform me why Britain's debt is STILL going up!! how long have they been in charge? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 16:12:15 GMT
there are many career benefit cheats and they need sorting. but one size doesn't fit all.i suffered ill health in 2009[thankfully fully recovered now] I was off work for 4 months for this I received ssp or as I call it fuck all.out of this I had to pay my mortgage,bills etc I did have savings but they were soon wiped out.i had to find work and quick otherwise I would have lost my home.this I managed to do but it wasn't easy.I am very comfortable now but my heart bleeds for anyone losing the job because if you work and own your own home your screwed in this country.
benefits should be paid in relation to what you have paid into the system.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 16:34:10 GMT
the tories are quick to point out any positives, but forget to mention how bad the figures were due to the recession[which they blame labour for yet I thought it was a world wide recession?] therefore they are bound to look good when the bar is set so low. perhaps a tory mp will inform me why Britain's debt is STILL going up!! how long have they been in charge? I just question the truth in a lot of what they list  |
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Post by heisenberg88 on Jul 31, 2014 17:29:28 GMT
If you look hard enough you will find work, just need to get of your arse and have a broader mind about what your going to do.
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Post by dobing1863 on Jul 31, 2014 17:48:41 GMT
I had a period 2009 for about eighteen months worked all my life from 15 got no help just lucky man lady was working,job centre was shit did a bit of subby work when I could get it, not easy getting work when you are nearly sixty as I was then.The system is crap ,if you are a worker they give you fuck all help,fuck em glad I'm coming up to retiring.
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Post by fortressbritannia on Jul 31, 2014 18:04:42 GMT
The issue isn't really finding work now, it's finding work that pays.
Doing well in your GCSE's and A-levels, and going off to get a degree isn't a guarantee off getting a job now, let alone a good job. I know plenty graduates who are working on minimum wage in shops, restaurants ect. Young people in this country are getting/going to get a really rough deal, being lumbered with £30,000+ of debt after university, poor job prospects and no hope of affording their own home ect.
If universities are charging £9,000 a year in tuition fees more needs to be done to assure a decent job at the end. Otherwise they'll be a real problem in 5-10 years time.
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Post by elystokie on Aug 1, 2014 7:38:29 GMT
The issue isn't really finding work now, it's finding work that pays. Doing well in your GCSE's and A-levels, and going off to get a degree isn't a guarantee off getting a job now, let alone a good job. I know plenty graduates who are working on minimum wage in shops, restaurants ect. Young people in this country are getting/going to get a really rough deal, being lumbered with £30,000+ of debt after university, poor job prospects and no hope of affording their own home ect. If universities are charging £9,000 a year in tuition fees more needs to be done to assure a decent job at the end. Otherwise they'll be a real problem in 5-10 years time. I agree to an extent, and having one son at Uni and another to (hopefully) follow in a years time the whole fee and loan thing pisses me off enormously, but what subjects do these graduates have their degrees in? Are there too many students going for the 'media studies' option and similar courses just to be able to say they have a degree and are then surprised when a prospective employer can't see the value in their qualification? |
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Post by britsabroad on Aug 1, 2014 7:55:06 GMT
The issue isn't really finding work now, it's finding work that pays. Doing well in your GCSE's and A-levels, and going off to get a degree isn't a guarantee off getting a job now, let alone a good job. I know plenty graduates who are working on minimum wage in shops, restaurants ect. Young people in this country are getting/going to get a really rough deal, being lumbered with £30,000+ of debt after university, poor job prospects and no hope of affording their own home ect. If universities are charging £9,000 a year in tuition fees more needs to be done to assure a decent job at the end. Otherwise they'll be a real problem in 5-10 years time. Off on a slight tangent, there are far too many people going off to Skegness Poly to get a media studies degree these days because they feel theyre entitled to attend University. Its a waste of 3 years they could be spending getting experience. Universities should stop chasing $$$ and only offer courses that genuinely warrant the 3 years studying imo. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 8:09:40 GMT
There are many jobs out there which do not warrant a degree qualification but these days it seems that it is demanded. I don't care what qualifications someone has , as I would rather assess their aptitude and keenness to the job . It is far more difficult for an employer to assess this than it is to look at pieces of paper. Practically every job application I see is littered with good standard qualifications and degrees .
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Post by bathstoke on Aug 1, 2014 8:18:22 GMT
The issue isn't really finding work now, it's finding work that pays. Doing well in your GCSE's and A-levels, and going off to get a degree isn't a guarantee off getting a job now, let alone a good job. I know plenty graduates who are working on minimum wage in shops, restaurants ect. Young people in this country are getting/going to get a really rough deal, being lumbered with £30,000+ of debt after university, poor job prospects and no hope of affording their own home ect. If universities are charging £9,000 a year in tuition fees more needs to be done to assure a decent job at the end. Otherwise they'll be a real problem in 5-10 years time. I agree to an extent, and having one son at Uni and another to (hopefully) follow in a years time the whole fee and loan thing pisses me off enormously, but what subjects do these graduates have ther degrees in? Are there too many students going for the 'media studies' option and similar courses just to be able to say they have a degree and are then surprised when a prospective employer can't see the value in their qualification? I don't think media studies is the worst. Still jobs out there that would require that degree. Problem is that higher education is going to go back to being the privilege of the wealthy. There are shed loads of 20/30 something's down here with degrees in employment way below there qualification level... |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 9:06:12 GMT
The issue isn't really finding work now, it's finding work that pays. Doing well in your GCSE's and A-levels, and going off to get a degree isn't a guarantee off getting a job now, let alone a good job. I know plenty graduates who are working on minimum wage in shops, restaurants ect. Young people in this country are getting/going to get a really rough deal, being lumbered with £30,000+ of debt after university, poor job prospects and no hope of affording their own home ect. If universities are charging £9,000 a year in tuition fees more needs to be done to assure a decent job at the end. Otherwise they'll be a real problem in 5-10 years time. Off on a slight tangent, there are far too many people going off to Skegness Poly to get a media studies degree these days because they feel theyre entitled to attend University. Its a waste of 3 years they could be spending getting experience. Universities should stop chasing $$$ and only offer courses that genuinely warrant the 3 years studying imo. spot on Brits as soon as they turned every bastard building in the country which could fit more than 3 students inside and started offering them courses in "Golf course management" and "The History of Lace knitting in Shetland" (True story..i shit you not!) it started the complete devaluation of universities and the degree system in general. we need to get back to the days when a degree actually meant something other than just signalling that someone spent 3 years getting into debt, getting pissed up and automatically correcting their own essays using spellcheck. nowadays it means absolutely nothing! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2014 10:25:59 GMT
I agree there are too many people doing degrees in some silly stuff but, fortress is right too
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Post by elystokie on Aug 1, 2014 12:33:05 GMT
I agree to an extent, and having one son at Uni and another to (hopefully) follow in a years time the whole fee and loan thing pisses me off enormously, but what subjects do these graduates have ther degrees in? Are there too many students going for the 'media studies' option and similar courses just to be able to say they have a degree and are then surprised when a prospective employer can't see the value in their qualification? I don't think media studies is the worst. Still jobs out there that would require that degree. Problem is that higher education is going to go back to being the privilege of the wealthy. There are shed loads of 20/30 something's down here with degrees in employment way below there qualification level... Yes, I was just using media studies as an example, as you say, there are far worse. Don't know about the 'privilege of the wealthy', there are many at my sons' Uni whose parents barely earn a thing but are far better off financially than he is, this is because they're entitled to far more grants and loans than those whose parents earn a reasonable wage. The very wealthy obviously couldn't give a fuck, the numbers involved mean little to them, my son has a mate whose father gives him more per week (£1500) than I could hope to earn. I'd say it was becoming the privilege of the 'very' wealthy and the bright kids whose parents are skint  Obviously 'wealthy' is subjective and depends on your own viewpoint. |
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Post by bathstoke on Aug 1, 2014 13:04:56 GMT
I don't think media studies is the worst. Still jobs out there that would require that degree. Problem is that higher education is going to go back to being the privilege of the wealthy. There are shed loads of 20/30 something's down here with degrees in employment way below there qualification level... Yes, I was just using media studies as an example, as you say, there are far worse. Don't know about the 'privilege of the wealthy', there are many at my sons' Uni whose parents barely earn a thing but are far better off financially than he is, this is because they're entitled to far more grants and loans than those whose parents earn a reasonable wage. The very wealthy obviously couldn't give a fuck, the numbers involved mean little to them, my son has a mate whose father gives him more per week (£1500) than I could hope to earn. I'd say it was becoming the privilege of the 'very' wealthy and the bright kids whose parents are skint Obviously 'wealthy' is subjective and depends on your own viewpoint. Can I just ask what a V young man spends £1500 a wk on!?! |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 1, 2014 19:29:08 GMT
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Post by fortressbritannia on Aug 1, 2014 19:38:10 GMT
The issue isn't really finding work now, it's finding work that pays. Doing well in your GCSE's and A-levels, and going off to get a degree isn't a guarantee off getting a job now, let alone a good job. I know plenty graduates who are working on minimum wage in shops, restaurants ect. Young people in this country are getting/going to get a really rough deal, being lumbered with £30,000+ of debt after university, poor job prospects and no hope of affording their own home ect. If universities are charging £9,000 a year in tuition fees more needs to be done to assure a decent job at the end. Otherwise they'll be a real problem in 5-10 years time. I agree to an extent, and having one son at Uni and another to (hopefully) follow in a years time the whole fee and loan thing pisses me off enormously, but what subjects do these graduates have their degrees in? Are there too many students going for the 'media studies' option and similar courses just to be able to say they have a degree and are then surprised when a prospective employer can't see the value in their qualification? Based on the people I know (not the most scientific sample, I know) most of them have studied a fairly academically rigorous subject. I agree that there are some wishy washy degrees around like golf course management, which are partly responsible for the watering down of the prestige of having a degree. I feel that some employers expect graduates to leave university already prepared to fit seamlessly into work with no training or expect graduates to already have a heaps of experience in a certain field. The problem arises that currently student loans get wiped after 30 years after graduation, graduates only start paying money back once their earning over £21,000 a year. If graduates don't start earning over £21,000 or start earning it 10-15 years after graduation there's going to be a bit of a hole and possibly another rethink on HE funding which could price out a hell if a lot of people. It's a far more complicated issue then just 'what subject you studied' such as lack of opportunity in Stoke-on-Trent for the people I know (or a host of other areas) the London-centric nature of our society, cost of living (especially in London). The economy is recovering and I'm certain many people feel better than they did 4 or 5 years ago, but the shape of the economy has completely changed. Whilst there are probably a wealth of opportunities in London there is not the same wealth of opportunities in other parts of the UK. Fingers crossed that the recovery continues and everyone everywhere continues to feel the recovery. |
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Post by bathstoke on Aug 1, 2014 20:38:23 GMT
I agree to an extent, and having one son at Uni and another to (hopefully) follow in a years time the whole fee and loan thing pisses me off enormously, but what subjects do these graduates have their degrees in? Are there too many students going for the 'media studies' option and similar courses just to be able to say they have a degree and are then surprised when a prospective employer can't see the value in their qualification? Based on the people I know (not the most scientific sample, I know) most of them have studied a fairly academically rigorous subject. I agree that there are some wishy washy degrees around like golf course management, which are partly responsible for the watering down of the prestige of having a degree. I feel that some employers expect graduates to leave university already prepared to fit seamlessly into work with no training or expect graduates to already have a heaps of experience in a certain field. The problem arises that currently student loans get wiped after 30 years after graduation, graduates only start paying money back once their earning over £21,000 a year. If graduates don't start earning over £21,000 or start earning it 10-15 years after graduation there's going to be a bit of a hole and possibly another rethink on HE funding which could price out a hell if a lot of people. It's a far more complicated issue then just 'what subject you studied' such as lack of opportunity in Stoke-on-Trent for the people I know (or a host of other areas) the London-centric nature of our society, cost of living (especially in London). The economy is recovering and I'm certain many people feel better than they did 4 or 5 years ago, but the shape of the economy has completely changed. Whilst there are probably a wealth of opportunities in London there is not the same wealth of opportunities in other parts of the UK. Fingers crossed that the recovery continues and everyone everywhere continues to feel the recovery. No fortress, I dont feel better off than 2008. Our pay has been frozen, apart from a couple of 1% pay increases, so as times gone by in this current government, my pay has gone down significantly. Not only that, when the carrot is taken away as a motivational tool, what is left!?! We know who has bankrupt the country,the banks. To tell lies that it's anyone else is shameful... |
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Post by kbillyh on Aug 1, 2014 20:43:10 GMT
Dole scroungers piss me off but i'm well aware that they cost next to fuck all in comparison to the tax "avoidance" of the big corporations.
Funny how the media don't encourage us to debate on them isn't it.
If i was a cynical man i'd perhaps think they were trying to get us to resent each other in order to divert the attention away from themselves.
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Post by britsabroad on Aug 2, 2014 2:17:14 GMT
Dole scroungers piss me off but i'm well aware that they cost next to fuck all in comparison to the tax "avoidance" of the big corporations. Funny how the media don't encourage us to debate on them isn't it. If i was a cynical man i'd perhaps think they were trying to get us to resent each other in order to divert the attention away from themselves. Because tax 'avoidance' is not avoidance, its all done within the law (blame the law if you like). Dole scroungers are not. |
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Post by kbillyh on Aug 2, 2014 8:09:40 GMT
Dole scroungers piss me off but i'm well aware that they cost next to fuck all in comparison to the tax "avoidance" of the big corporations. Funny how the media don't encourage us to debate on them isn't it. If i was a cynical man i'd perhaps think they were trying to get us to resent each other in order to divert the attention away from themselves. Because tax 'avoidance' is not avoidance, its all done within the law (blame the law if you like). Dole scroungers are not. Ah, the apologist raises it's head. I think you may find that being a dole scrounger isn't illegal, apart from benefit fraud of course and in this case it has been proven that more revenue is lost by the mistakes of the D.S.S than is lost through benefit fraud, but again this is not a subject they seem to dwell on too much is it. Perhaps if they called it "work avoidance" it would be more acceptable to you? |
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Post by britsabroad on Aug 2, 2014 9:19:18 GMT
Because tax 'avoidance' is not avoidance, its all done within the law (blame the law if you like). Dole scroungers are not. Ah, the apologist raises it's head. I think you may find that being a dole scrounger isn't illegal, apart from benefit fraud of course and in this case it has been proven that more revenue is lost by the mistakes of the D.S.S than is lost through benefit fraud, but again this is not a subject they seem to dwell on too much is it. Perhaps if they called it "work avoidance" it would be more acceptable to you? All completely irrelevant to your first point. Complain all you want, but tax 'avoidance' is doing nothing wrong by the letter of the law. The public directs its anger in the wrong direction, which means nothing will be done about it. |
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Post by elystokie on Aug 2, 2014 9:26:03 GMT
Yes, I was just using media studies as an example, as you say, there are far worse. Don't know about the 'privilege of the wealthy', there are many at my sons' Uni whose parents barely earn a thing but are far better off financially than he is, this is because they're entitled to far more grants and loans than those whose parents earn a reasonable wage. The very wealthy obviously couldn't give a fuck, the numbers involved mean little to them, my son has a mate whose father gives him more per week (£1500) than I could hope to earn. I'd say it was becoming the privilege of the 'very' wealthy and the bright kids whose parents are skint Obviously 'wealthy' is subjective and depends on your own viewpoint. Can I just ask what a V young man spends £1500 a wk on!?! Haven't a clue mate, lives in a nice place and drives a nice motor apparently, also has an extensive collection of expensive vodkas so my lad tells me  but I doubt they account for that amount of money. My lad tells me the 'limit' was only imposed after the young man in question managed to run up a bill of £1500 in a nightclub in one night. I expect he'll struggle along. |
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Post by kbillyh on Aug 2, 2014 9:34:28 GMT
Ah, the apologist raises it's head. I think you may find that being a dole scrounger isn't illegal, apart from benefit fraud of course and in this case it has been proven that more revenue is lost by the mistakes of the D.S.S than is lost through benefit fraud, but again this is not a subject they seem to dwell on too much is it. Perhaps if they called it "work avoidance" it would be more acceptable to you? All completely irrelevant to your first point. Complain all you want, but tax 'avoidance' is doing nothing wrong by the letter of the law. The public directs its anger in the wrong direction, which means nothing will be done about it. Not really irrelevant as i'm pointing out to you that work avoidance is not illegal (yet) whereas you imply that they are not within the law unlike tax avoidance. Your closing line: "Dole scroungers are not." |
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Post by SneydGreenStokie on Aug 2, 2014 12:22:37 GMT
The issue isn't really finding work now, it's finding work that pays. Doing well in your GCSE's and A-levels, and going off to get a degree isn't a guarantee off getting a job now, let alone a good job. I know plenty graduates who are working on minimum wage in shops, restaurants ect. Young people in this country are getting/going to get a really rough deal, being lumbered with £30,000+ of debt after university, poor job prospects and no hope of affording their own home ect. If universities are charging £9,000 a year in tuition fees more needs to be done to assure a decent job at the end. Otherwise they'll be a real problem in 5-10 years time. Why should paying for tuition fees guarantee graduated a decent job? Ridiculous statement. People don't have to go to university do they. It's a choice. As is choosing not to go and choosing whether to work or not. SGS |
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Post by britsabroad on Aug 2, 2014 16:40:12 GMT
All completely irrelevant to your first point. Complain all you want, but tax 'avoidance' is doing nothing wrong by the letter of the law. The public directs its anger in the wrong direction, which means nothing will be done about it. Not really irrelevant as i'm pointing out to you that work avoidance is not illegal (yet) whereas you imply that they are not within the law unlike tax avoidance. Your closing line: "Dole scroungers are not." Dole scroungers to me are those who claim illegally, lie to avoid work etc. |
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Post by fortressbritannia on Aug 2, 2014 17:31:33 GMT
The issue isn't really finding work now, it's finding work that pays. Doing well in your GCSE's and A-levels, and going off to get a degree isn't a guarantee off getting a job now, let alone a good job. I know plenty graduates who are working on minimum wage in shops, restaurants ect. Young people in this country are getting/going to get a really rough deal, being lumbered with £30,000+ of debt after university, poor job prospects and no hope of affording their own home ect. If universities are charging £9,000 a year in tuition fees more needs to be done to assure a decent job at the end. Otherwise they'll be a real problem in 5-10 years time. Why should paying for tuition fees guarantee graduated a decent job? Ridiculous statement. People don't have to go to university do they. It's a choice. As is choosing not to go and choosing whether to work or not. SGS If universities and the government want to charge people £9,000 a year in tuition, then I think students have every right to get something worthwhile in return, other than a bit of papers with their name on. It has to mean something |
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Post by kbillyh on Aug 2, 2014 17:40:10 GMT
Not really irrelevant as i'm pointing out to you that work avoidance is not illegal (yet) whereas you imply that they are not within the law unlike tax avoidance. Your closing line: "Dole scroungers are not." Dole scroungers to me are those who claim illegally, lie to avoid work etc. To you perhaps, but i think the true definition of that would be "Benefit fraudsters". There is a difference, dole scroungers play the system legally as do tax avoiders. Same thing. They just make new laws to help the latter and new laws to hinder the former. Benefit fraudsters lie in order to obtain benefits, therefore operating outside of the law, in HMRC terms an out and out lie is classed as Tax evasion. Whichever way you want to look at it, your ease at labeling dole scroungers does not seem to match that of labeling tax avoiders. And that's the point i'm making. Just like a tabloid editorial comment, we are encouraged to be critical of the unemployed/disabled in order to divert the attention away from the fact that shit loads more is being taken out of the public purse by the elitist few. It stinks of everything you post on other threads, an instant defence of the injustices of modern life. An apologist. |
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Post by SneydGreenStokie on Aug 2, 2014 21:15:46 GMT
Why should paying for tuition fees guarantee graduated a decent job? Ridiculous statement. People don't have to go to university do they. It's a choice. As is choosing not to go and choosing whether to work or not. SGS If universities and the government want to charge people £9,000 a year in tuition, then I think students have every right to get something worthwhile in return, other than a bit of papers with their name on. It has to mean something They do. If successful, they get a degree. SGS |
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Post by britsabroad on Aug 3, 2014 1:25:10 GMT
Dole scroungers to me are those who claim illegally, lie to avoid work etc. To you perhaps, but i think the true definition of that would be "Benefit fraudsters". There is a difference, dole scroungers play the system legally as do tax avoiders. Same thing. They just make new laws to help the latter and new laws to hinder the former. Benefit fraudsters lie in order to obtain benefits, therefore operating outside of the law, in HMRC terms an out and out lie is classed as Tax evasion. Whichever way you want to look at it, your ease at labeling dole scroungers does not seem to match that of labeling tax avoiders. And that's the point i'm making. Just like a tabloid editorial comment, we are encouraged to be critical of the unemployed/disabled in order to divert the attention away from the fact that shit loads more is being taken out of the public purse by the elitist few. It stinks of everything you post on other threads, an instant defence of the injustices of modern life. An apologist. Maybe im jaded from time working in London during the recession when idiots who knew no better thought it was all the fault of 'the banks' just because the media told them it was so. What you wrote smacks of exactly the same thing, with a slightly different subject. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2014 2:27:44 GMT
Dole scroungers to me are those who claim illegally, lie to avoid work etc. To you perhaps, but i think the true definition of that would be "Benefit fraudsters". There is a difference, dole scroungers play the system legally as do tax avoiders. Same thing. They just make new laws to help the latter and new laws to hinder the former. Benefit fraudsters lie in order to obtain benefits, therefore operating outside of the law, in HMRC terms an out and out lie is classed as Tax evasion. Whichever way you want to look at it, your ease at labeling dole scroungers does not seem to match that of labeling tax avoiders. And that's the point i'm making. Just like a tabloid editorial comment, we are encouraged to be critical of the unemployed/disabled in order to divert the attention away from the fact that shit loads more is being taken out of the public purse by the elitist few. It stinks of everything you post on other threads, an instant defence of the injustices of modern life. An apologist. I guess he's like me a " Tw*t " .....I'm sure we will both be able to live with it though |
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but I doubt they account for that amount of money.
