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Post by Beardy200 on Oct 9, 2010 17:06:37 GMT
Not the old "yeah but it's not as bad as ......." argument?  It is possible to disagree with lots of things, you don't have to just concentrate on one at a time. This thread is about people scrounging benefits all of their life without contributing with the rest of us. Try another thread if you want to discuss tax avoidance but the fact is that even if they did collect those taxes it wouldn't make spongers any more tolerable. It might be a different area of "scrounging" but it is scrounging all the same, is it not? While I agree there are a small minority of "scroungers" on benefits, the figure and the revenue is miniscule comapred to the super rich, hence why I mentioned it here. This witch hunting of the poor is no more than a smokescreen as I previously mentioned. It is yes and i'm against that aswell. You seem to imply that if you are against benefits to lazy fuckers that you support tax avoidance for the rich which couldn't be further from the truth. I would disagree though that there is a miniscule amount of people who live on benefits with no intention of going to work. The problem is massive and the fact that most of us know somebody who lives off the state would support that. As Salop has said we've all heard people tell us that they can't go to work as they can't earn as much as their benefits and that's just ridiculous. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 9, 2010 17:11:23 GMT
It might be a different area of "scrounging" but it is scrounging all the same, is it not? While I agree there are a small minority of "scroungers" on benefits, the figure and the revenue is miniscule comapred to the super rich, hence why I mentioned it here. This witch hunting of the poor is no more than a smokescreen as I previously mentioned. It is yes and i'm against that aswell. You seem to imply that if you are against benefits to lazy fuckers that you support tax avoidance for the rich which couldn't be further from the truth. I would disagree though that there is a miniscule amount of people who live on benefits with no intention of going to work. The problem is massive and the fact that most of us know somebody who lives off the state would support that. As Salop has said we've all heard people tell us that they can't go to work as they can't earn as much as their benefits and that's just ridiculous. I've already stated I'm against people who take the piss and defraud the taxpayer. Living off the state and defrauding are two different things though surely? |
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Post by salopstick on Oct 9, 2010 17:13:11 GMT
to be honest scroungers upset me more than tax avoiders because tax avoiders whilst equally wrong are contributing in some way.
strange logic but vodafone alledgedly avoid 5bn worth of tax which is wrong but the flip side is they employ thousands of people in this country who pay tax, spend etc
a mate of mine owns a small building business but employs about 100 people. these people pay income tax, vat etc and contribute to society if he sold up not only would their contributions be lost but we would have to pay them benefits. im all for giving people like him tax breaks but i digress
huddy you may think the number is small, but the beneifts bill is huge
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Post by salopstick on Oct 9, 2010 17:15:08 GMT
It is yes and i'm against that aswell. You seem to imply that if you are against benefits to lazy fuckers that you support tax avoidance for the rich which couldn't be further from the truth. I would disagree though that there is a miniscule amount of people who live on benefits with no intention of going to work. The problem is massive and the fact that most of us know somebody who lives off the state would support that. As Salop has said we've all heard people tell us that they can't go to work as they can't earn as much as their benefits and that's just ridiculous. I've already stated I'm against people who take the piss and defraud the taxpayer. Living off the state and defrauding are two different things though surely? benefit fraud is rife, and scrounging WITH NO INTENTION OF EVER WORKING is fraud in my eyes beardy tell him what market drayton wetherspoons is like first thing in morning |
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Post by Beardy200 on Oct 9, 2010 17:22:51 GMT
I've already stated I'm against people who take the piss and defraud the taxpayer. Living off the state and defrauding are two different things though surely? benefit fraud is rife, and scrounging WITH NO INTENTION OF EVER WORKING is fraud in my eyes beardy tell him what market drayton wetherspoons is like first thing in morning I wouldn't know as i'm at work but my old man (retired) says it's very busy. ;D Full of young lads having a pint and full breakfast and don't really look dressed as if they are off to a job interview when they've finished. As the article above says, they haven't worked for years and yet the family has 4 mobile phones, Sky, computers, 2 cars, a 42" TV and holiday abroad. If you don't work you should be on the breadline not enjoying luxuries that loads of working folk can't afford. |
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Post by salopstick on Oct 9, 2010 17:37:07 GMT
benefit fraud is rife, and scrounging WITH NO INTENTION OF EVER WORKING is fraud in my eyes beardy tell him what market drayton wetherspoons is like first thing in morning I wouldn't know as i'm at work but my old man (retired) says it's very busy. ;D Full of young lads having a pint and full breakfast and don't really look dressed as if they are off to a job interview when they've finished. As the article above says, they haven't worked for years and yet the family has 4 mobile phones, Sky, computers, 2 cars, a 42" TV and holiday abroad. If you don't work you should be on the breadline not enjoying luxuries that loads of working folk can't afford. like my original point - benefits should provide a helping hand not a lifestyle |
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Post by Gods on Oct 9, 2010 17:49:03 GMT
Just as it is too late for gun control in the USA it's too late to control welfare benefits in this country.
With so many people hooked on state handouts like cheap crack whores it's a vote loser every time you try to do something sensible.
I'll be impressed if the Tories carry off even some of their program of cuts but I fear in the end they will find tax rises are easier than spending cuts like everyone else before them.
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Post by mistersausage on Oct 9, 2010 18:40:39 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 9, 2010 23:06:43 GMT
I've already stated I'm against people who take the piss and defraud the taxpayer. Living off the state and defrauding are two different things though surely? benefit fraud is rife, and scrounging WITH NO INTENTION OF EVER WORKING is fraud in my eyes beardy tell him what market drayton wetherspoons is like first thing in morning I'm sorry I really don't believe that to be true, if you can find me statistical proof that Britain is rife with Benefit Fraud, then I will apologise to you. For now, it seems to me that you believe the lies that the Tory government and the right wing press tell you. |
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Post by salopstick on Oct 9, 2010 23:16:19 GMT
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Post by salopstick on Oct 9, 2010 23:17:26 GMT
however huddy, what is your definitin of rife, mine is lots of
there is a lot of benefit fraud in this country
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2010 23:19:24 GMT
to be honest scroungers upset me more than tax avoiders because tax avoiders whilst equally wrong are contributing in some way. strange logic but vodafone alledgedly avoid 5bn worth of tax which is wrong but the flip side is they employ thousands of people in this country who pay tax, spend etc a mate of mine owns a small building business but employs about 100 people. these people pay income tax, vat etc and contribute to society if he sold up not only would their contributions be lost but we would have to pay them benefits. im all for giving people like him tax breaks but i digress huddy you may think the number is small, but the beneifts bill is huge Puckin Idiot...!  |
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Post by salopstick on Oct 9, 2010 23:22:55 GMT
why because i believe work avoiders are worse than tax avoiders
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Post by Yorkshirepotter on Oct 9, 2010 23:57:24 GMT
www.benefitfraud.org.uk/total-benefit-fraud/index.htmlThis page list the spending on handouts. £8.8 BILLION on Income Support £2.9 BILLION on Job Seekers Allowance £17.1 BILLION on Housing Benefit £4.2 BILLION on Council Tax Benefit £33 BILLION just on those 4??? Even if we disregard all the child benefit and other bits that are handed out, that is a shitload of money given away for no return!!! Its only a minority though isnt it
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Oct 10, 2010 7:25:00 GMT
Benefit fraud is different to living off the state. Fraud is working while claiming etc where as living off the state is claiming what the system says you are ENTITLED to.
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Post by Beardy200 on Oct 10, 2010 10:44:02 GMT
benefit fraud is rife, and scrounging WITH NO INTENTION OF EVER WORKING is fraud in my eyes beardy tell him what market drayton wetherspoons is like first thing in morning I'm sorry I really don't believe that to be true, if you can find me statistical proof that Britain is rife with Benefit Fraud, then I will apologise to you. For now, it seems to me that you believe the lies that the Tory government and the right wing press tell you. Why are people never allowed to make their own mind up and they're always fooled into it by Tory lies and propaganda? I didn't vote, i rarely discuss politics with anybody, i don't read newspapers apart from the back pages and i never watch politics on the TV. The Tories must be creeping into my bedroom at night and planting these things into my mind whilst i sleep. It's got bugger all to do with Tories or Labour. Benefit dependancy and benefit fraud were rife under Labour and they're rife now. It's a fact of society and got nothing to do with having party preference or listening to one parties lies. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 10, 2010 10:59:03 GMT
I'm sorry I really don't believe that to be true, if you can find me statistical proof that Britain is rife with Benefit Fraud, then I will apologise to you. For now, it seems to me that you believe the lies that the Tory government and the right wing press tell you. Why are people never allowed to make their own mind up and they're always fooled into it by Tory lies and propaganda? I didn't vote, i rarely discuss politics with anybody, i don't read newspapers apart from the back pages and i never watch politics on the TV. The Tories must be creeping into my bedroom at night and planting these things into my mind whilst i sleep. It's got bugger all to do with Tories or Labour. Benefit dependancy and benefit fraud were rife under Labour and they're rife now. It's a fact of society and got nothing to do with having party preference or listening to one parties lies. You are entitled to your opinion Beardy as I am to mine. I understand people are defrauding the system, I simply believe it's not "rife" as has been suggested and that the whole notion of fraud and "scrounging" has been brought back the fore by the Tories and their friends in the press to camouflage the most vicious cuts ever witnessed. As the working classes will be hit the hardest it's no surprise to me that this is the case. |
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Post by Beardy200 on Oct 10, 2010 11:18:08 GMT
Why are people never allowed to make their own mind up and they're always fooled into it by Tory lies and propaganda? I didn't vote, i rarely discuss politics with anybody, i don't read newspapers apart from the back pages and i never watch politics on the TV. The Tories must be creeping into my bedroom at night and planting these things into my mind whilst i sleep. It's got bugger all to do with Tories or Labour. Benefit dependancy and benefit fraud were rife under Labour and they're rife now. It's a fact of society and got nothing to do with having party preference or listening to one parties lies. You are entitled to your opinion Beardy as I am to mine. I understand people are defrauding the system, I simply believe it's not "rife" as has been suggested and that the whole notion of fraud and "scrounging" has been brought back the fore by the Tories and their friends in the press to camouflage the most vicious cuts ever witnessed. As the working classes will be hit the hardest it's no surprise to me that this is the case. The difference being is i have opinions based on what i see around me and not based on reading lots of literature written by people on the same side of the fence that i agree with.  |
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Post by salopstick on Oct 10, 2010 11:54:16 GMT
it seems to me that the working classes have nothing to fear and that is the scrounging classes that are going to be hit
long over due
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Oct 10, 2010 12:17:45 GMT
It won't affect many people though. There can't be many people on more than 26,000 a year. These will only be people living in central London etc paying huge rents and prob just got off a boat anyway. If they got rid of all the immigrants that are claiming they would save a small fortune.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 10, 2010 12:21:56 GMT
It won't affect many people though. There can't be many people on more than 26,000 a year. These will only be people living in central London etc paying huge rents and prob just got off a boat anyway. If they got rid of all the immigrants that are claiming they would save a small fortune. Ahh...the old race card, wondered when that old chestnut would turn up. |
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Oct 10, 2010 12:25:22 GMT
It won't affect many people though. There can't be many people on more than 26,000 a year. These will only be people living in central London etc paying huge rents and prob just got off a boat anyway. If they got rid of all the immigrants that are claiming they would save a small fortune. Ahh...the old race card, wondered when that old chestnut would turn up. It's not that simple though is it? It is one thing coming here to work but why should we pay for them to be here? It's not about race it is about being taken for a ride. |
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Post by salopstick on Oct 10, 2010 12:40:57 GMT
huddy again mate what is your definition of rife
more than 10 less than a thousand?
i still reckon nearly every poster on this thread could name and shame at least 1 person who shouldnt be claiming every benefit they do
that is rife to me
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Post by Beardy200 on Oct 10, 2010 13:02:01 GMT
huddy again mate what is your definition of rife more than 10 less than a thousand? i still reckon nearly every poster on this thread could name and shame at least 1 person who shouldnt be claiming every benefit they do that is rife to me And we can all name at least one person who is perfectly able to work but chooses not to as they can get pretty much get the same money on benefits if not more. Whether they are breaking any laws there or not doesn't mean we don't need to do something about it as it sucks money out of the economy for no good reason. |
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Post by salopstick on Oct 10, 2010 13:06:23 GMT
yes beardy fucking rife
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Post by salopstick on Oct 10, 2010 13:08:31 GMT
c'mon huddy, define rife, i still want my apology |
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Oct 10, 2010 13:23:45 GMT
huddy again mate what is your definition of rife more than 10 less than a thousand? i still reckon nearly every poster on this thread could name and shame at least 1 person who shouldnt be claiming every benefit they do that is rife to me And we can all name at least one person who is perfectly able to work but chooses not to as they can get pretty much get the same money on benefits if not more. Whether they are breaking any laws there or not doesn't mean we don't need to do something about it as it sucks money out of the economy for no good reason. But it is a good reason. Everyone wants to provide the best they can for their family. If you get more for not working that will provide more for the family. Shit situation but a good reason all the same. |
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Post by salopstick on Oct 10, 2010 13:31:21 GMT
ok, stafford i agree with that but it doesnt make it right
if the government limit the benefts so that people cant have a 46k benefits package then that is good news
there has to be benefits of working
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Post by Beardy200 on Oct 10, 2010 13:31:31 GMT
And we can all name at least one person who is perfectly able to work but chooses not to as they can get pretty much get the same money on benefits if not more. Whether they are breaking any laws there or not doesn't mean we don't need to do something about it as it sucks money out of the economy for no good reason. But it is a good reason. Everyone wants to provide the best they can for their family. If you get more for not working that will provide more for the family. Shit situation but a good reason all the same. There should be something called pride and self-worth that stops you doing that as you are basically stealing from the people who do go to work even though they could get more on benefits. Too many people don't have it these days so something needs to be done. Perhaps letting them keep some of their benefits for a year or so after returning to work may be the answer but getting something for nothing when you are fit to work is just plain wrong as is having more and more children when you don't pay for the ones you have. |
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Post by mermaidsal on Oct 10, 2010 13:35:56 GMT
i still reckon nearly every poster on this thread could name and shame at least 1 person who shouldnt be claiming every benefit they do True, I can too. But I can name as many who don't claim what they're due, especially among pensioners and disabled people who work. |
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