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Post by Olgrligm on Sept 29, 2010 19:44:11 GMT
The format as it stands is crap. I can understand the argument about letting in teams finishing as low as fourth so as to not create a complete Champions' league closed shop, but it's lost any of the magic that can usually be found in a cup competition. If Barcelona had played Kazan in a regular knock-out tie, Barcelona would have gone home tonight on aggregate. As it is, Kazan will probably get knocked out as soon as possible and Barcelona will go on to reach the semi finals at least, because that way the trophy generates more revenue. You don't want the little teams sullying up the important rounds at the end, after all.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2010 19:46:03 GMT
People on the radio berate my team for the way they play
solid- overly defensive at times but , the ball moving forward, physical contact - no little skill when the ball gets to certain players and, a real desire to be competitive and score goals when forward
Compare this with the first half of Valencia and Manchester United where, due to it being devoid of any action or real interest, I turned over to watch the end of 'trawler man' and then switched back just at half time
Yep you can criticize stoke for their first half against Newcastle
but if this champions league 'chess' is what we should aspire to
well - for me - you can have it !
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2010 19:47:24 GMT
People on the radio berate my team for the way they play solid- overly defensive at times but , the ball moving forward, physical contact - no little skill when the ball gets to certain players and, a real desire to be competitive and score goals when forward Compare this with the first half of Valencia and Manchester United where, due to it being devoid of any action or real interest, I turned over to watch the end of 'trawler man' and then switched back just at half time Yep you can criticize stoke for their first half against Newcastle but if this champions league 'chess' is what we should aspire to well - for me - you can have it ! Just said the same on another thread
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Post by pasa on Sept 29, 2010 19:48:38 GMT
The format as it stands is crap. I can understand the argument about letting in teams finishing as low as fourth so as to not create a complete Champions' league closed shop, but it's lost any of the magic that can usually be found in a cup competition. If Barcelona had played Kazan in a regular knock-out tie, Barcelona would have gone home tonight on aggregate. As it is, Kazan will probably get knocked out as soon as possible and Barcelona will go on to reach the semi finals at least, because that way the trophy generates more revenue. You don't want the little teams sullying up the important rounds at the end, after all. ??? it's a country mile better than normal telly
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Post by bettsy on Sept 29, 2010 19:48:56 GMT
it was interesting to hear that man utd have won only once in 19 times in spain, maybe fergie is being negative for a change, sound familiar?
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Post by french toast on Sept 29, 2010 19:50:20 GMT
it was interesting to hear that man utd have won only once in 19 times in spain, maybe fergie is being negative for a change, sound familiar? or maybe spanish football is better than english football?
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Post by stokierabbit on Sept 29, 2010 19:51:32 GMT
100% agree tony
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Post by bettsy on Sept 29, 2010 19:53:17 GMT
it was interesting to hear that man utd have won only once in 19 times in spain, maybe fergie is being negative for a change, sound familiar? or maybe spanish football is better than english football? i think it is but most seem to think england is better
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2010 19:54:47 GMT
Put Tottenham on its alot better and they are now 2 up.
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Post by alster on Sept 29, 2010 19:55:47 GMT
or maybe spanish football is better than english football? i think it is but most seem to think england is better English is more entertaining, Spanish is technically superior.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Sept 29, 2010 19:55:57 GMT
The group stages are tedious and the whole thing has been structured so the big clubs of each country are the only ones that will ever win anything by creating an extra financial tier in the domestic leagues. If they bring in the law about needing to balance your books in order to play in Europe then I guess it will finally become a virtual closed shop. At least the knock out stages are competitive, but the whole thing is conceptually sullied.
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Post by bettsy on Sept 29, 2010 19:57:42 GMT
i think it is but most seem to think england is better English is more entertaining, Spanish is technically superior. yeah actually that's right
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Post by alster on Sept 29, 2010 20:10:57 GMT
The group stages are tedious and the whole thing has been structured so the big clubs of each country are the only ones that will ever win anything by creating an extra financial tier in the domestic leagues. If they bring in the law about needing to balance your books in order to play in Europe then I guess it will finally become a virtual closed shop. At least the knock out stages are competitive, but the whole thing is conceptually sullied. Like with most round robin type mini leagues the early games are often not as good as they might be, they only really shape up as the group dynamics become clearer. Plenty of really big teams have gone out at the group stage and it does prevent weaker teams progressing on one fluke result, leading to more competetive games in the later rounds. Its a good competition that usually tests the top teams and the tactical abilities of their managers to the max.
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Post by PickSCFC on Sept 29, 2010 20:16:15 GMT
The group stages are tedious and the whole thing has been structured so the big clubs of each country are the only ones that will ever win anything by creating an extra financial tier in the domestic leagues. If they bring in the law about needing to balance your books in order to play in Europe then I guess it will finally become a virtual closed shop. At least the knock out stages are competitive, but the whole thing is conceptually sullied. Like with most round robin type mini leagues the early games are often not as good as they might be, they only really shape up as the group dynamics become clearer. Plenty of really big teams have gone out at the group stage and it does prevent weaker teams progressing on one fluke result, leading to more competetive games in the later rounds. Its a good competition that usually tests the top teams and the tactical abilities of their managers to the max. the smaller teams never get to a semi final though, imo cup competitions are about upsets, theres nothing better than a cup upset
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Post by luke45 on Sept 29, 2010 20:24:05 GMT
2 shots on target in the Man Utd game after 84 minutes pretty diabolical game
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Post by alster on Sept 29, 2010 20:24:16 GMT
Like with most round robin type mini leagues the early games are often not as good as they might be, they only really shape up as the group dynamics become clearer. Plenty of really big teams have gone out at the group stage and it does prevent weaker teams progressing on one fluke result, leading to more competitive games in the later rounds. Its a good competition that usually tests the top teams and the tactical abilities of their managers to the max. the smaller teams never get to a semi final though, imo cup competitions are about upsets, theres nothing better than a cup upset Granted its more for the football purist than the football romantic. It would devalue a major competition in my opinion for the likes of Helsingborgs to be getting to the latter rounds bit like New Zealand getting to the semis of the World Cup.
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Post by luke45 on Sept 29, 2010 20:25:38 GMT
And just as I say that the wankers score.
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Post by PickSCFC on Sept 29, 2010 20:26:54 GMT
the smaller teams never get to a semi final though, imo cup competitions are about upsets, theres nothing better than a cup upset Granted its more for the football purist than the football romantic. It would devalue a major competition in my opinion for the likes of Helsingborgs to be getting to the latter rounds bit like New Zealand getting to the semis of the World Cup. well if thats the case then why have the smaller teams in the competition then?
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Post by alster on Sept 29, 2010 20:27:23 GMT
And just as I say that the wankers score. SAF been taking tips off TP or what.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Sept 29, 2010 20:29:23 GMT
The group stages are tedious and the whole thing has been structured so the big clubs of each country are the only ones that will ever win anything by creating an extra financial tier in the domestic leagues. If they bring in the law about needing to balance your books in order to play in Europe then I guess it will finally become a virtual closed shop. At least the knock out stages are competitive, but the whole thing is conceptually sullied. Like with most round robin type mini leagues the early games are often not as good as they might be, they only really shape up as the group dynamics become clearer. Plenty of really big teams have gone out at the group stage and it does prevent weaker teams progressing on one fluke result, leading to more competetive games in the later rounds. Its a good competition that usually tests the top teams and the tactical abilities of their managers to the max. The extra games of the group stages and the losers parachute entry into the europa league are completely anti competitive. It's too big and structured entirely around money. It may 'throw up' the odd good game but in general it is as limp as an over indulgent eurocrat that hasn't see his own dick for a generation.
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Post by PoisonedDonkey on Sept 29, 2010 20:30:44 GMT
I wish Man Yoo would just fuck off.
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Post by alster on Sept 29, 2010 20:34:53 GMT
Granted its more for the football purist than the football romantic. It would devalue a major competition in my opinion for the likes of Helsingborgs to be getting to the latter rounds bit like New Zealand getting to the semis of the World Cup. well if thats the case then why have the smaller teams in the competition then? Gives their players experience of playing games against top draw opposition and those smaller clubs better financial reward than a one off or two legged knockout comp. Good for big teams because not only are they more likely to advance but also a chance to scout smaller teams players to see how they cope on the big stage. its very much in favor of the elite teams but believe me if they broke away our own revenue streams would be trashed.
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Post by scfc75 on Sept 29, 2010 20:37:50 GMT
well if thats the case then why have the smaller teams in the competition then? Gives their players experience of playing games against top draw opposition and those smaller clubs better financial reward than a one off or two legged knockout comp. Good for big teams because not only are they more likely to advance but also a chance to scout smaller teams players to see how they cope on the big stage. its very much in favor of the elite teams but believe me if they broke away our own revenue streams would be trashed. I think it's much simpler than that. More teams = more games = more revenue.
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Post by alster on Sept 29, 2010 20:40:15 GMT
Like with most round robin type mini leagues the early games are often not as good as they might be, they only really shape up as the group dynamics become clearer. Plenty of really big teams have gone out at the group stage and it does prevent weaker teams progressing on one fluke result, leading to more competetive games in the later rounds. Its a good competition that usually tests the top teams and the tactical abilities of their managers to the max. The extra games of the group stages and the losers parachute entry into the europa league are completely anti competitive. It's too big and structured entirely around money. It may 'throw up' the odd good game but in general it is as limp as an over indulgent eurocrat that hasn't see his own dick for a generation. Wake up all professional football is completely money obsessed and the things you're moaning about actually provide more revenue to the smaller clubs in exchange for a format where the bigger stronger clubs are more likely to be ultimately successful.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Sept 29, 2010 20:41:21 GMT
well if thats the case then why have the smaller teams in the competition then? Gives their players experience of playing games against top draw opposition and those smaller clubs better financial reward than a one off or two legged knockout comp. Good for big teams because not only are they more likely to advance but also a chance to scout smaller teams players to see how they cope on the big stage. its very much in favor of the elite teams but believe me if they broke away our own revenue streams would be trashed. And then turnover would be more proportional to gate receipts instead of tv revenue and the fans would matter. 3 o clock kicks offs, standing sections, competitive competitions (you'd think this would be a given ffs). It's worth the risk. There's not much left to lose.
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Post by Olgrligm on Sept 29, 2010 20:41:40 GMT
I can't watch Spanish football. Far too much cheating to watch it without falling into despair at the state of the game.
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Post by ColonelMustard on Sept 29, 2010 20:47:27 GMT
The extra games of the group stages and the losers parachute entry into the europa league are completely anti competitive. It's too big and structured entirely around money. It may 'throw up' the odd good game but in general it is as limp as an over indulgent eurocrat that hasn't see his own dick for a generation. Wake up all professional football is completely money obsessed and the things you're moaning about actually provide more revenue to the smaller clubs in exchange for a format where the bigger stronger clubs are more likely to be ultimately successful. That overall revenue is up is undeniable, that the small clubs get a smaller percentage is also undeniable. This means competition suffers and I nod off from the tedium of the procession.
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Post by alster on Sept 29, 2010 20:49:12 GMT
Gives their players experience of playing games against top draw opposition and those smaller clubs better financial reward than a one off or two legged knockout comp. Good for big teams because not only are they more likely to advance but also a chance to scout smaller teams players to see how they cope on the big stage. its very much in favor of the elite teams but believe me if they broke away our own revenue streams would be trashed. I think it's much simpler than that. More teams = more games = more revenue. A European Superleague would see the elite teams split the revenue between themselves and most of the smaller teams wouldn't get anything and would also decimate the finances of domestic leagues adversely affecting teams who don't even qualify for European competitions as it stands like ourselves. Be careful what you wish for.
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Post by alster on Sept 29, 2010 20:58:56 GMT
Gives their players experience of playing games against top draw opposition and those smaller clubs better financial reward than a one off or two legged knockout comp. Good for big teams because not only are they more likely to advance but also a chance to scout smaller teams players to see how they cope on the big stage. its very much in favor of the elite teams but believe me if they broke away our own revenue streams would be trashed. And then turnover would be more proportional to gate receipts instead of tv revenue and the fans would matter. 3 o clock kicks offs, standing sections, competitive competitions (you'd think this would be a given ffs). It's worth the risk. There's not much left to lose. Well I could certainly live with it but I'm sure when I've campained for Mr Pulis to stop being so negative and play some football and to hell with the consequences you've basically told me I'm being a tit and we need to stay in the Prem at all costs etc etc I don't get you.
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Post by bogus on Sept 29, 2010 21:12:32 GMT
I don't mind it, but I wish they'd stop fucking seeding everything. It would be very interesting to have a "group of death", for example, and no doubt liven at least one of the groups up early doors. A classic, smash and grab away win, by the way. Who'd have thought you'd get that at this level
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