teflondel
Youth Player
Plumbing services
Posts: 318
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Post by teflondel on Sept 2, 2010 7:54:44 GMT
It was refreshing to see a player giving honest and genuine answers to questions instead of spouting the normal cliched B/S. He is a world class player and we are lucky that he chose us over the other options he had, the fact that he did choose Stoke when he could have gone back to London surely says that is happy to be coming here far more than grinning like an idiot and saying what a wonderful club stoke is and how he always had a soft spot for us as we know that would be a load of crap.
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Post by lew86 on Sept 2, 2010 8:48:02 GMT
i've not got a problem with Sunderland, but whenever I read their board, there always seems to be an air of over confidence and arrogance. Steve Bruce is similar- but to be more extreme- a right smarmy twat that thinks he's better than he is.
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Post by madpotter on Sept 2, 2010 9:06:00 GMT
'bet he was confused about everyone talking about the sunderland good old days' ;D hhahaa that did make me smile yes we have got some of your old players, but they laave it up stoke duckk and have play considerably better than they have at sunderland.
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Post by PerCyfilth ....Captains Log on Sept 2, 2010 9:10:14 GMT
There are idiots and arrogant posters regarding each team on both sites.. Its football so no one is exactly neutral in their views are they? Some posters on both sides will swear black is white in support of their club others are more objective, after all we are both happy if we stay in the division. If we want to give stick out we should look at clubs ruining the competitive equilibrium by spending crazy money, in a lot of cases money they havent got or can afford to gain that edge. We are heading for a Euro Super League and the likes of Sunderland , Stoke, Bolton et al wont make the back pages.
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Post by kitkatkev on Sept 2, 2010 9:21:58 GMT
I have a huge amount of respect for you Captain and will ALWAYS look at for your posts on here and engage. I made the mistake of taking an interest a while back in your forum and should have pulled away to be honest. I have seen way too much arrogance for me to change my view Captain. We all have idiots (We have loads ) but it's the underline arrogance when to be fair you have nothing at all to be arrogant about which just does not sit with me. Like i said, you are a top lad but i steer clear as much as possible from your forum mate because i think it's a shame where this huge chip has appeared from. Well, you know me mate, I have no problem with coming on here and slagging off the Sunderland fans on our message board when they have shown that exact same arrogance as to mention here. When Jones left our fans were shocked, dissappointed, but most probably embarrassed be because for over a year they had mocked Stoke and suddenly you have taken a plyer from us that they wanted to keep. Result being a lot of them made an absolute tit out of themselves. But that has settled down a lot and blown over, as emotions tend to and the prevalent view over on the SMB is that Stoke have had a very good window, signed some very good players, made some real progress in the kind of players you can now attract, but asking questions about the pitfalls of evolving as a team to be able to accomodate the new bread of players you can now boast. That's just the same view as goes on here really. Should also mention - near enough every day I log in here I see my club referred to as "Blunderland". Would be very easy for me to throw the "arrogance" card at this place and tar Stokies with the same brush seeing that. Ultimately, though, I have to appreciate it is a Stoke meassage board and I have no right to expect anything other than a heavily favourable and bias general opinion towards Stoke, and an unfavourable one towards your rivals, which we presently are. We are no different on our message board, and why should we be? We all love our clubs. No shame or crime in that. AGREED
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Post by lancer on Sept 2, 2010 14:05:53 GMT
Does smiter- first post on the page- think that Gyan signed for them because they are Sunderland? He signed for them because they offered what seems to most people, a stupid price and silly wages for him. Does he think that Gyan wouldn't have signed for Stoke City or anyone else if they'd offered a few quid more? By the way, how many more clubs were after him? Might be of course that he's a great signing, who knows, but the same can equally be said of EG. Bet Bruce is shitting himself now thoug, because if Gyan isn't what he suposed to be, Brucie boy will be looking for a new job. If he can escape from Wearside that is.
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kert
Youth Player
Posts: 464
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Post by kert on Sept 2, 2010 15:05:05 GMT
Does smiter- first post on the page- think that Gyan signed for them because they are Sunderland? He signed for them because they offered what seems to most people, a stupid price and silly wages for him. Does he think that Gyan wouldn't have signed for Stoke City or anyone else if they'd offered a few quid more? By the way, how many more clubs were after him? Might be of course that he's a great signing, who knows, but the same can equally be said of EG. Bet Bruce is shitting himself now thoug, because if Gyan isn't what he suposed to be, Brucie boy will be looking for a new job. If he can escape from Wearside that is. Liverpool came in for Gyan at the last minute actually and tried to sabotage the deal, but Gyan had already made his mind up. www.givemefootball.com/premier-league/liverpool-missed-out-on-african-ace-on-deadline-daHe almost joined Fenerbahce for 18 - 20 million a few weeks ago aswell. (Bruce said so himself on Sky Sports Interview) And for those who are saying we are jealous? Get a grip? It made me laugh when a poster was quoting your strike force as something to be jealous about? We have Darren Bent for crying out loud, hes worth more than your entire strike-force combined! Even now, I'm struggling to think of a single Stoke player who would get into our side? The fact your saying Gyan probably wont get many goals in a mocking way is also laughable, when your entire strike-force combined will struggle to score as many as Bent alone. I could quite as easily say Jones is a rubbish buy as he doesnt have a cats chance in hell of scoring 15 goals (believe me, he doesnt). Gyan isnt a prolific scorer, thats common knowledge, but neither is Jones, hes here to replace that physical void, hes a link up player and we need him to hold up the ball rather than stick it in the net. And the level of hypocrisy in regards to spending money is absoloutly ridiculous, Stoke have out-spent Sunderland in the last two seasons and yet you constantly have digs at us for spending beyond our means and being close to financial ruin. When you stop spouting bias shit in regards to our team, then perhaps we will stop waving the arrogance card in your face. Because it is truth; our team is far superior to yours, Jones will not be missed and we are not jealous of your team what-so-ever, so of course we are gonna respond with arrogance when you try and suggest otherwise. Your as bad as us! We have the exact complaint about you lot on our forums.
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Post by captainfishpaste on Sept 2, 2010 15:08:28 GMT
They sold KJ for 8m, we only gave them 2m up front which they had to give straight back to KJ and then they shelled out 13m for a player who was available for 3.5m before the World CupWonder why they are bitter Absolute nonsense. Are you trying to suggest that just a year after signing him for £7m, a year in which he led their attack and was a first choice, Rennes were actively trying to get rid of him for £3.5m? Don't be silly. Also, for the record, Gyan's Ligue 1 goalscoring record is better than Anelka's, Henry's, Wiltord's, and Chamakh's was. Only really Didier Drogba has come to England from what is a notoriously low scoring league with a better record than Gyan. Just to continue to kind of root out the bullshit and conjecture that is the entirity of your contribution... how do you know we haven't just spread the cost of Gyan over the length of his contract the same as what you have done with Jones? It is pretty common practice in football, afterall. Similarly, a loyalty payment to players you sell without them asking for a move is just as standard practice. Do you think you haven't given one to Lawrence and Kitson? I'd be amazed if you haven't. I don't know if Gyan will adequately replace Jones or not. He may be miles better than him. Who knows. I do know that Bruce tried to sign him before he signed Bent, though, so we are not signing him on the basis of the World Cup. But on a thread where Sunderland fans are getting widely criticised by Stokies for commiting to opinions on Stoke despite clear ignorance, your post just absolutely reeks of sheer hypocrisy.
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Post by jason on Sept 2, 2010 15:12:36 GMT
Snore, snore, snore. Who cares what they think. We'll do the business on the pitch. Goodbye.
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Post by jason on Sept 2, 2010 15:15:57 GMT
Just read that thread, what a bunch of arrogant cunts. I could understand if it were just the odd couple, but every post in that thread is sheer arrogance.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Sept 2, 2010 15:29:49 GMT
There are idiots and arrogant posters regarding each team on both sites.. Its football so no one is exactly neutral in their views are they? Some posters on both sides will swear black is white in support of their club others are more objective, after all we are both happy if we stay in the division. If we want to give stick out we should look at clubs ruining the competitive equilibrium by spending crazy money, in a lot of cases money they havent got or can afford to gain that edge. We are heading for a Euro Super League and the likes of Sunderland , Stoke, Bolton et al wont make the back pages. Spot on fella And as it stands right now, Sunderland have 4 points and we have none. Why would they be concerned? Sadly the Prem means that outside the top 6 ish, teams turn on each other rather than get together in that race for Premiership survival with the hope of doing it all again the next year and maybe a cup run If you go to pretty much any club outside the top eight. most fans are saying the same - survival, mid table finish with matches to go and a nice cup run Every club is talking about signings other clubs have made and rationalising why their club has made better ones. Tis the way, except it is now on the Internet instead of in the pubs, and therefore open to much more abuse from the safety of a keyboard - oh well Me and my mate who supports Sunderland both agree we have both on paper done well - lets see what it pans out to be. Frankly so long as SCFC dont go down, I dont give a chuff how many places Sunderland finish above us
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 2, 2010 15:41:42 GMT
Does smiter- first post on the page- think that Gyan signed for them because they are Sunderland? He signed for them because they offered what seems to most people, a stupid price and silly wages for him. Does he think that Gyan wouldn't have signed for Stoke City or anyone else if they'd offered a few quid more? By the way, how many more clubs were after him? Might be of course that he's a great signing, who knows, but the same can equally be said of EG. Bet Bruce is shitting himself now thoug, because if Gyan isn't what he suposed to be, Brucie boy will be looking for a new job. If he can escape from Wearside that is. Liverpool came in for Gyan at the last minute actually and tried to sabotage the deal, but Gyan had already made his mind up. www.givemefootball.com/premier-league/liverpool-missed-out-on-african-ace-on-deadline-daHe almost joined Fenerbahce for 18 - 20 million a few weeks ago aswell. (Bruce said so himself on Sky Sports Interview) And for those who are saying we are jealous? Get a grip? It made me laugh when a poster was quoting your strike force as something to be jealous about? We have Darren Bent for crying out loud, hes worth more than your entire strike-force combined! Even now, I'm struggling to think of a single Stoke player who would get into our side? The fact your saying Gyan probably wont get many goals in a mocking way is also laughable, when your entire strike-force combined will struggle to score as many as Bent alone. I could quite as easily say Jones is a rubbish buy as he doesnt have a cats chance in hell of scoring 15 goals (believe me, he doesnt). Gyan isnt a prolific scorer, thats common knowledge, but neither is Jones, hes here to replace that physical void, hes a link up player and we need him to hold up the ball rather than stick it in the net. And the level of hypocrisy in regards to spending money is absoloutly ridiculous, Stoke have out-spent Sunderland in the last two seasons and yet you constantly have digs at us for spending beyond our means and being close to financial ruin. When you stop spouting bias shit in regards to our team, then perhaps we will stop waving the arrogance card in your face. Because it is truth; our team is far superior to yours, Jones will not be missed and we are not jealous of your team what-so-ever, so of course we are gonna respond with arrogance when you try and suggest otherwise. Your as bad as us! We have the exact complaint about you lot on our forums. I've never read a post saying stop being arrogant with so much arrogant bullshit in it in my life. ;D
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Post by nqsdiscopants on Sept 2, 2010 16:29:28 GMT
Liverpool came in for Gyan at the last minute actually and tried to sabotage the deal, but Gyan had already made his mind up. www.givemefootball.com/premier-league/liverpool-missed-out-on-african-ace-on-deadline-daHe almost joined Fenerbahce for 18 - 20 million a few weeks ago aswell. (Bruce said so himself on Sky Sports Interview) And for those who are saying we are jealous? Get a grip? It made me laugh when a poster was quoting your strike force as something to be jealous about? We have Darren Bent for crying out loud, hes worth more than your entire strike-force combined! Even now, I'm struggling to think of a single Stoke player who would get into our side? The fact your saying Gyan probably wont get many goals in a mocking way is also laughable, when your entire strike-force combined will struggle to score as many as Bent alone. I could quite as easily say Jones is a rubbish buy as he doesnt have a cats chance in hell of scoring 15 goals (believe me, he doesnt). Gyan isnt a prolific scorer, thats common knowledge, but neither is Jones, hes here to replace that physical void, hes a link up player and we need him to hold up the ball rather than stick it in the net. And the level of hypocrisy in regards to spending money is absoloutly ridiculous, Stoke have out-spent Sunderland in the last two seasons and yet you constantly have digs at us for spending beyond our means and being close to financial ruin. When you stop spouting bias shit in regards to our team, then perhaps we will stop waving the arrogance card in your face. Because it is truth; our team is far superior to yours, Jones will not be missed and we are not jealous of your team what-so-ever, so of course we are gonna respond with arrogance when you try and suggest otherwise. Your as bad as us! We have the exact complaint about you lot on our forums. I've never read a post saying stop being arrogant with so much arrogant bullshit in it in my life. ;D To be fair, he's spot on.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 2, 2010 16:30:29 GMT
I disagree and think it's a load of arrogant horseshit but there we go!
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Post by gb on Sept 2, 2010 16:36:25 GMT
didn't Slumberland only just scrape to stay up last season ??? Have Slumberland wasted loads of money last fer years.??? Aint Slumberland terribly in the red ???
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Post by nqsdiscopants on Sept 2, 2010 16:38:56 GMT
I disagree and think it's a load of arrogant horseshit but there we go! We do get accused of overspending on here despite having made a profit in the window even after the signing of Gyan. He's perhaps a little over the top in his criticism of Jones but the fact of the matter is that we paid him a £2m lumper just to get him out - he wouldn't have agreed to leave the club and sign for Stoke had we not paid him off. It's hardly a glowing reference from your current employer that they're willing to pay a portion of your wages to get you out of the door is it?
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Post by captainfishpaste on Sept 2, 2010 16:39:43 GMT
didn't Slumberland only just scrape to stay up last season ??? Have Slumberland wasted loads of money last fer years.??? Aint Slumberland terribly in the red ??? No No No Thank you for asking.
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Post by nqsdiscopants on Sept 2, 2010 16:39:57 GMT
didn't Slumberland only just scrape to stay up last season ??? Have Slumberland wasted loads of money last fer years.??? Aint Slumberland terribly in the red ??? No. No. No. Next?
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Post by captainfishpaste on Sept 2, 2010 16:41:38 GMT
I disagree and think it's a load of arrogant horseshit but there we go! We do get accused of overspending on here despite having made a profit in the window even after the signing of Gyan. He's perhaps a little over the top in his criticism of Jones but the fact of the matter is that we paid him a £2m lumper just to get him out - he wouldn't have agreed to leave the club and sign for Stoke had we not paid him off. It's hardly a glowing reference from your current employer that they're willing to pay a portion of your wages to get you out of the door is it? A loyalty "bonus" is standard in all player sales when the player has not requested a transfer. Only reason we heard about this one was some clever Pulis spin/propaganda. Fair play to him. Immensely harsh to clal Jones' character into question based on that.
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Post by captainfishpaste on Sept 2, 2010 16:43:28 GMT
I disagree and think it's a load of arrogant horseshit but there we go! Just to play devils advocate for a moment... could threads on here yesterday such as "Best strikeforce outside top 6", "Villa fans will be shitting themselves", and this one suggesting Sunderland fans have reason to be jealous of Stoke City not also be interpreted as "arrogant horseshit"? ???
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Post by nqsdiscopants on Sept 2, 2010 16:49:14 GMT
We do get accused of overspending on here despite having made a profit in the window even after the signing of Gyan. He's perhaps a little over the top in his criticism of Jones but the fact of the matter is that we paid him a £2m lumper just to get him out - he wouldn't have agreed to leave the club and sign for Stoke had we not paid him off. It's hardly a glowing reference from your current employer that they're willing to pay a portion of your wages to get you out of the door is it? A loyalty "bonus" is standard in all player sales when the player has not requested a transfer. Only reason we heard about this one was some clever Pulis spin/propaganda. Fair play to him. Immensely harsh to clal Jones' character into question based on that. But presumably not Pulis lies - he said quite clearly that Sunderland had "helped out" with a payment in lieu of wages that Stoke City couldn't afford.
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Post by actongatestokie on Sept 2, 2010 16:50:20 GMT
A loyalty "bonus" is standard in all player sales when the player has not requested a transfer. Only reason we heard about this one was some clever Pulis spin/propaganda. Fair play to him. Immensely harsh to clal Jones' character into question based on that. But presumably not Pulis lies - he said quite clearly that Sunderland had "helped out" with a payment in lieu of wages that Stoke City couldn't didn't want to afford. Just tidied that for you, sir.
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coggy
Youth Player
Posts: 340
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Post by coggy on Sept 2, 2010 16:51:51 GMT
I don't want to get into this again but just to keep things straight, the lumper that was given was so KJ would drop into our wage structure. It's a very clever and sensible way to do business by our Chairman. This stops other players within the team wanting more and it also keeps the day to day running costs down. (Cash flow is key in this climate) It only works if you have the £££ to be able to offer the lump. The lump works by simply taking what salary would be agreed and take off what is actually going to be paid at the top end of the structure. This then gets multiplied by the weeks within the contract and the difference is given as a lump sum. The player then gets paid the lower amount as a salary that is within the current structure. It keeps the wage bill down and is a very sensible good way of doing business and protects against huge wage bills and running costs which is what ruins a club financially. With regards to everything else, as you were...i said my piece and i am out
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Post by bayernoatcake on Sept 2, 2010 16:53:37 GMT
I disagree and think it's a load of arrogant horseshit but there we go! Just to play devils advocate for a moment... could threads on here yesterday such as "Best strikeforce outside top 6", "Villa fans will be shitting themselves", and this one suggesting Sunderland fans have reason to be jealous of Stoke City not also be interpreted as "arrogant horseshit"? ??? They are, see my reply in the Villa one as to what I thought of it.
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Post by captainfishpaste on Sept 2, 2010 16:58:08 GMT
A loyalty "bonus" is standard in all player sales when the player has not requested a transfer. Only reason we heard about this one was some clever Pulis spin/propaganda. Fair play to him. Immensely harsh to clal Jones' character into question based on that. But presumably not Pulis lies - he said quite clearly that Sunderland had "helped out" with a payment in lieu of wages that Stoke City couldn't afford. Not lies, just spin. Pulis was very clever. Every club "help out" a transfer with a loyalty bonus. It is standard practice. Stoke will have paid a large signing on fee to Jones themselves (again, standard in any transfer) in lieu of the wage cut he agreed to. The best and most consistent ITK on the SMB also claimed as much. Jones is no mug so won't have left hismelf out of pocket so SOMEONE has paid a large amount to him somewhere, and he'd have recieved the "bonus" from us regardless of whether he agreed a pay cut at Stoke or not. Bruce is no mug, especially given he was funding his own transfer budget this summer, so he won't have given anything away. Pulis is no mug, and showed it by some clever spin and propaganda.
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Post by Linx on Sept 2, 2010 16:58:39 GMT
I've got no problem with Sunderland, and captainfishpaste ranks up there with billybluebird and colmanspig as being one of few excellent posters from other clubs.
But quite a few Sunderland fans are like the fans of other midranking Premier League clubs who look down on Stoke as a long ball, ugly football outfit and delude themselves as being the poor man's Arsenal in comparison. All I remember is that the game at the SoL last year was one of the worst of the season - and that was down to Sunderland's style rather than ours.
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Post by actongatestokie on Sept 2, 2010 17:00:10 GMT
I disagree and think it's a load of arrogant horseshit but there we go! Just to play devils advocate for a moment... could threads on here yesterday such as "Best strikeforce outside top 6", "Villa fans will be shitting themselves", and this one suggesting Sunderland fans have reason to be jealous of Stoke City not also be interpreted as "arrogant horseshit"? ??? You could interpret it that way. I'd rather go down the completely out of context web-mongery of the highest order route. I'd have said it was arrogant if we were slating their style of play whilst saying things like "Shit club, only bring x number of fans on a Tuesday night and I can't wait for them to get relegated" blah, blah blah ad nauseam.
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Post by nqsdiscopants on Sept 2, 2010 17:03:12 GMT
I don't want to get into this again but just to keep things straight, the lumper that was given was so KJ would drop into our wage structure. It's a very clever and sensible way to do business by our Chairman. This stops other players within the team wanting more and it also keeps the day to day running costs down. (Cash flow is key in this climate) It only works if you have the £££ to be able to offer the lump. The lump works by simply taking what salary would be agreed and take off what is actually going to be paid at the top end of the structure. This then gets multiplied by the weeks within the contract and the difference is given as a lump sum. The player then gets paid the lower amount as a salary that is within the current structure. It keeps the wage bill down and is a very sensible good way of doing business and protects against huge wage bills and running costs which is what ruins a club financially. With regards to everything else, as you were...i said my piece and i am out Agreed, but it's Sunderland who had to pay him the lumper, not Stoke. Like I say - good for Stoke's bank balance, but not a glowing endorsement from a former emloyer. NQ/SB - "Kenny, Stoke want you but they cant afford to pay you £xxxx. They're only offering wages of £xxxx." KJ - "What happened to Tottenham and Liverpool?" NQ/SB - "It's been two and a half years since Andy Gray made you SKY player of the month Kenny, and in the interim period you've hardly been setting the world alight. Even Harry Redknapp is going to wise up to you eventually." KJ - "Well, given that I've expressed no interest whatsoever in leaving my cushy little number here at Sunderland, why on earth would I want to take that offer from Stoke?" SNQ/SB - "I see your point Kenny, but we don't want you here, so how about we just pay the difference to you upfront and you p*ss off so we can get someone we want in?"
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Post by captainfishpaste on Sept 2, 2010 17:08:34 GMT
I don't want to get into this again but just to keep things straight, the lumper that was given was so KJ would drop into our wage structure. It's a very clever and sensible way to do business by our Chairman. This stops other players within the team wanting more and it also keeps the day to day running costs down. (Cash flow is key in this climate) It only works if you have the £££ to be able to offer the lump. The lump works by simply taking what salary would be agreed and take off what is actually going to be paid at the top end of the structure. This then gets multiplied by the weeks within the contract and the difference is given as a lump sum. The player then gets paid the lower amount as a salary that is within the current structure. It keeps the wage bill down and is a very sensible good way of doing business and protects against huge wage bills and running costs which is what ruins a club financially. With regards to everything else, as you were...i said my piece and i am out Agreed, but it's Sunderland who had to pay him the lumper, not Stoke. Like I say - good for Stoke's bank balance, but not a glowing endorsement from a former emloyer. NQ/SB - "Kenny, Stoke want you but they cant afford to pay you £xxxx. They're only offering wages of £xxxx." KJ - "What happened to Tottenham and Liverpool?" NQ/SB - "It's been two and a half years since Andy Gray made you SKY player of the month Kenny, and in the interim period you've hardly been setting the world alight. Even Harry Redknapp is going to wise up to you eventually." KJ - "Well, given that I've expressed no interest whatsoever in leaving my cushy little number here at Sunderland, why on earth would I want to take that offer from Stoke?" SNQ/SB - "I see your point Kenny, but we don't want you here, so how about we just pay the difference to you upfront and you p*ss off so we can get someone we want in?" You are talking absolute shite, marra. Both Sunderland AND Stoke paid Jones a "lumper" each. The one from us was the one we were contractually obliged to and would have had to have paid him regardless of what he negotiated with Stoke. Stoke paid him a "lumper" to make it worth his while to accept a lower wage, so as to not break their existing wage structure and cause contention within the existing squad.
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coggy
Youth Player
Posts: 340
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Post by coggy on Sept 2, 2010 17:12:20 GMT
I don't want to get into this again but just to keep things straight, the lumper that was given was so KJ would drop into our wage structure. It's a very clever and sensible way to do business by our Chairman. This stops other players within the team wanting more and it also keeps the day to day running costs down. (Cash flow is key in this climate) It only works if you have the £££ to be able to offer the lump. The lump works by simply taking what salary would be agreed and take off what is actually going to be paid at the top end of the structure. This then gets multiplied by the weeks within the contract and the difference is given as a lump sum. The player then gets paid the lower amount as a salary that is within the current structure. It keeps the wage bill down and is a very sensible good way of doing business and protects against huge wage bills and running costs which is what ruins a club financially. With regards to everything else, as you were...i said my piece and i am out Agreed, but it's Sunderland who had to pay him the lumper, not Stoke. Like I say - good for Stoke's bank balance, but not a glowing endorsement from a former emloyer. NQ/SB - "Kenny, Stoke want you but they cant afford to pay you £xxxx. They're only offering wages of £xxxx." KJ - "What happened to Tottenham and Liverpool?" NQ/SB - "It's been two and a half years since Andy Gray made you SKY player of the month Kenny, and in the interim period you've hardly been setting the world alight. Even Harry Redknapp is going to wise up to you eventually." KJ - "Well, given that I've expressed no interest whatsoever in leaving my cushy little number here at Sunderland, why on earth would I want to take that offer from Stoke?" SNQ/SB - "I see your point Kenny, but we don't want you here, so how about we just pay the difference to you upfront and you p*ss off so we can get someone we want in?" That's total rubbish mate
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