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Post by RINGO STARR on May 18, 2010 11:32:09 GMT
when mama plays we ar more effective as a team, just look at when he hasnt played, we have looked lost as there is no one to hit it long to On what evidence have we looked better as ateam with Mama? He wasn't playing at the start of the season just gone and we seemed to be doing OK without him. The reason that results picked up in January/February etc were due to the fact that our defence was playing out of its skin. Not because we had Mama back and were scoring goals for fun. If you look at the start of the season when Mama wasn't playing, I'm sure we picked up as many points as we owuld have done without him. Would Mama have won us the game at home to wolves when we 2-0 up at half time? Would he have made any difference to the home games against Chelsea and man Utd? He didn't last season. Would he have scored Kitsons goal against Bolton away-I certainly don't think so. All this bollocks about us getting more points with Mama playing is completly and utterly ridiculous. Until he is picked ahead of players of the natural ability of Tuncay, then I'll always be posting about him and this situation and even though it bores me to death its a serious issue I have with the development and progression of Stoke City as a Premier League team.
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Post by PickSCFC on May 18, 2010 11:37:15 GMT
when mama plays we ar more effective as a team, just look at when he hasnt played, we have looked lost as there is no one to hit it long to On what evidence have we looked better as ateam with Mama? He wasn't playing at the start of the season just gone and we seemed to be doing OK without him. The reason that results picked up in January/February etc were due to the fact that our defence was playing out of its skin. Not because we had Mama back and were scoring goals for fun. If you look at the start of the season when Mama wasn't playing, I'm sure we picked up as many points as we owuld have done without him. Would Mama have won us the game at home to wolves when we 2-0 up at half time? Would he have made any difference to the home games against Chelsea and man Utd? He didn't last season. Would he have scored Kitsons goal against Bolton away-I certainly don't think so. All this bollocks about us getting more points with Mama playing is completly and utterly ridiculous. Until he is picked ahead of players of the natural ability of Tuncay, then I'll always be posting about him and this situation and even though it bores me to death its a serious issue I have with the development and progression of Stoke City as a Premier League team. given the way we play, what players would YOU pick
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Post by PickSCFC on May 18, 2010 11:40:06 GMT
when mama plays we ar more effective as a team, just look at when he hasnt played, we have looked lost as there is no one to hit it long to On what evidence have we looked better as ateam with Mama? He wasn't playing at the start of the season just gone and we seemed to be doing OK without him. The reason that results picked up in January/February etc were due to the fact that our defence was playing out of its skin. Not because we had Mama back and were scoring goals for fun. If you look at the start of the season when Mama wasn't playing, I'm sure we picked up as many points as we owuld have done without him. Would Mama have won us the game at home to wolves when we 2-0 up at half time? Would he have made any difference to the home games against Chelsea and man Utd? He didn't last season. Would he have scored Kitsons goal against Bolton away-I certainly don't think so. All this bollocks about us getting more points with Mama playing is completly and utterly ridiculous. Until he is picked ahead of players of the natural ability of Tuncay, then I'll always be posting about him and this situation and even though it bores me to death its a serious issue I have with the development and progression of Stoke City as a Premier League team. that last sentance is bollocks, we are progressing nicely, just have a look at the league tables in the last 2 seasons
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Post by wakefieldstokie on May 18, 2010 11:42:36 GMT
Only 30 as well, loads of years left Mama!
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Post by PickSCFC on May 18, 2010 11:43:36 GMT
Only 30 as well, loads of years left Mama!
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Post by RINGO STARR on May 18, 2010 11:46:50 GMT
What players would I have picked is the question.
At the start of the season based on pre-season and early season form I'd have selected Dave Kitson without a shadow of doubt. The bloke had one of the worst first seasons I can ever remember and we all know what happened. That went by, the fans forgave and forgot but our manager didn't.
He scored most of our goals in pre-season and started the season extremely well. At the same time we also had the option of using another foil in Tuncay. We didn't use this however due to some stupid excuse about fitness and form.
At the same time we continued to use Fuller who at the time was playing very poorly if truth be told. We also continued with an unfit Beattie who looked overweight, injured and completly out of form. What did we do we sent out Kitson our best striker at that time on loan and continued to ignore the abilities of Tuncay.
A few months later Mama comes STRAIGHT back into the team and people say that he's a much better option than Tuncay and Kitson.
Now whats happened with Tuncay and Kitson since has completly overshadowed anything they may have done earlier in the season but everyone must hold thier hands up and say in all honesty that they're much better players and options than Mama Sidibe.
Given the way we play going forward and the fact that we only have three strikers who I think will remain Stoke players (Ric/Tuncay and Mama) I'd still pick Tuncay over Mama.
If we're going on about headed goals then I'm sure that Tuncay has scored more headers than Mama. I'd also suggest he's created more (Kitson's V Bolton) being a great example of how we could and should play.
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Post by PickSCFC on May 18, 2010 11:52:06 GMT
granted kitson did well when picked but the way he has disrespected the club, the management, his team mates and US the fans is a discrace and as far as im concerned he can fuck off, at he moment our most effective forwards are mama and fuller with tuncay on the bench
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Post by RINGO STARR on May 18, 2010 11:55:13 GMT
granted kitson did well when picked but the way he has disrespected the club, the management, his team mates and US the fans is a discrace and as far as im concerned he can fuck off, at he moment our most effective forwards are mama and fuller with tuncay on the bench Yes but as I say the form he showed and the resulting respect he was shown by the manager was out of order too? No wonder the rift has come into effect. Beattie on th eother hand can fook right off. He's never once tried to fight for his place like Kitson and Tuncay did. I know for a fact that we need to rid of Kitson has too much has been said in the press now for it to work but going back to your original question I'd have slected Kitson over Mama Sidibe every day of the week.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on May 18, 2010 11:56:43 GMT
What players would I have picked is the question. At the start of the season based on pre-season and early season form I'd have selected Dave Kitson without a shadow of doubt. The bloke had one of the worst first seasons I can ever remember and we all know what happened. That went by, the fans forgave and forgot but our manager didn't. He scored most of our goals in pre-season and started the season extremely well. At the same time we also had the option of using another foil in Tuncay. We didn't use this however due to some stupid excuse about fitness and form. To be fair I'd pick Mama over Kitson (and Tuncay to a lesser extent) if they are both dicking around and giving it the big I AM. At the same time we continued to use Fuller who at the time was playing very poorly if truth be told. We also continued with an unfit Beattie who looked overweight, injured and completly out of form. What did we do we sent out Kitson our best striker at that time on loan and continued to ignore the abilities of Tuncay. A few months later Mama comes STRAIGHT back into the team and people say that he's a much better option than Tuncay and Kitson. Now whats happened with Tuncay and Kitson since has completly overshadowed anything they may have done earlier in the season but everyone must hold thier hands up and say in all honesty that they're much better players and options than Mama Sidibe. Given the way we play going forward and the fact that we only have three strikers who I think will remain Stoke players (Ric/Tuncay and Mama) I'd still pick Tuncay over Mama. If we're going on about headed goals then I'm sure that Tuncay has scored more headers than Mama. I'd also suggest he's created more (Kitson's V Bolton) being a great example of how we could and should play.
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Post by PickSCFC on May 18, 2010 12:03:47 GMT
granted kitson did well when picked but the way he has disrespected the club, the management, his team mates and US the fans is a discrace and as far as im concerned he can fuck off, at he moment our most effective forwards are mama and fuller with tuncay on the bench Yes but as I say the form he showed and the resulting respect he was shown by the manager was out of order too? No wonder the rift has come into effect. Beattie on th eother hand can fook right off. He's never once tried to fight for his place like Kitson and Tuncay did. I know for a fact that we need to rid of Kitson has too much has been said in the press now for it to work but going back to your original question I'd have slected Kitson over Mama Sidibe every day of the week. kitson was most pobobly acting the cunt though before he was loaned out so pulis had every right to not pick him if that nwere the case
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Post by cousindupree on May 18, 2010 12:23:17 GMT
I really wish we could nail this myth about when Mama plays we play better and get more points. Sadly the stats show that mama started half the games last season and we won 5 drew 9 and lost 5, so 24 pts with Mama starting and 23 without, winning 6 drawing drawing 5 and losing 8. The outcome of the stats suggests that when Mama plays its likely to be a low scoring draw and we have a decent chance of not losing. But tellingly 10 out of Mama's 19 starts have resulted in zero goals for the team! Mama is a defensive option ok away from home but too negative at home. It really is time the Manager ditched his safety blanket and moved on
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Post by RINGO STARR on May 18, 2010 12:30:39 GMT
Whatever happened between Kitson and Beattie is over now as far as I'm concerned.
I never want to see them in a Stoke shirt again. However, the truth is that both of these players are better than Mama Sidibe and I'm very bloody concerned that we're spending too much time trying to find a 'better Mama' than we are a goalscorer.
My point is that our system without Mama has been just as effective.
Beattie when he first arrived being one example and Kitsons form ealier this season when we picking up points comfortably being the second example.
The majority of you must surely see that we need better players than Mama which was my original and first post on the whole thread. I know we haven't got better players now because of this and that but if TP and some of our fans regard Mama as our number 9 man (i.e our main target man and a player capable of scoring 10-15 goals in all competitions) then we're going to really struggle next season.
Injuries or no injuries in recent years his goalscoring record is shite, his assist levels aren't as good as many make out and he offers us very little as an impact player substitute.
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Post by PickSCFC on May 18, 2010 12:42:53 GMT
Whatever happened between Kitson and Beattie is over now as far as I'm concerned. I never want to see them in a Stoke shirt again. However, the truth is that both of these players are better than Mama Sidibe and I'm very bloody concerned that we're spending too much time trying to find a 'better Mama' than we are a goalscorer. My point is that our system without Mama has been just as effective. Beattie when he first arrived being one example and Kitsons form ealier this season when we picking up points comfortably being the second example. The majority of you must surely see that we need better players than Mama which was my original and first post on the whole thread. I know we haven't got better players now because of this and that but if TP and some of our fans regard Mama as our number 9 man (i.e our main target man and a player capable of scoring 10-15 goals in all competitions) then we're going to really struggle next season. Injuries or no injuries in recent years his goalscoring record is shite, his assist levels aren't as good as many make out and he offers us very little as an impact player substitute. NOBODY is saying that mama is the best player but he is the best equipped to play the target man role for us at the moment as he is all we have available to us, even march4 has said we need a better target man and i agree with him but if we dont get one in then mama will be playing and good luck to him
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Post by RINGO STARR on May 18, 2010 13:02:24 GMT
I see what you are saying Hustler but the start of this thread and the initial piece from the official site was suggesting he's been out of form due to a bad injury.
I can honestly say that he's looked no better or worse than before any of his injuries. He's always looked way below average as far as I'm concerned and when thats the case why select him over better players with better experience/cv's.
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Post by PickSCFC on May 18, 2010 13:06:51 GMT
I see what you are saying Hustler but the start of this thread and the initial piece from the official site was suggesting he's been out of form due to a bad injury. I can honestly say that he's looked no better or worse than before any of his injuries. He's always looked way below average as far as I'm concerned and when thats the case why select him over better players with better experience/cv's. when he first came back from injury he was poor but he has got better as the season went on, mama is pivotol to the way we play so until we get a better replacement in we are stuck with him
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Post by RINGO STARR on May 18, 2010 13:18:09 GMT
I can't remember at what point he got better as the season went on but we'll beg to differ I suppose
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Post by PickSCFC on May 18, 2010 13:20:52 GMT
I can't remember at what point he got better as the season went on but we'll beg to differ I suppose thats probobly because you will refuse to see it
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Post by RINGO STARR on May 18, 2010 13:28:04 GMT
I won't refuse to see it.
I've spent several years witnessing it. I'vetried to warm to him, to give him another chance and he's never delivered as far as I'm concerned. He has scored about 4 or 5 vital goals (Bristol City, and a couple of winners in our first Prem season) but I'm a realist and that means that I know he isn't good enough and never will be.
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Post by PickSCFC on May 18, 2010 13:31:10 GMT
I won't refuse to see it. I've spent several years witnessing it. I'vetried to warm to him, to give him another chance and he's never delivered as far as I'm concerned. He has scored about 4 or 5 vital goals (Bristol City, and a couple of winners in our first Prem season) but I'm a realist and that means that I know he isn't good enough and never will be. more or less every goal he has scored for us has been important
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Post by RINGO STARR on May 18, 2010 13:36:53 GMT
Every goal scored is important therfore Mama's goals have been important, just like any other Stoke goal. Every one of the 20 or so he's scored in the 5 years he's been here have been very important. We'll refer to goals as important from here on in.
It's more important though that we have someone who can be important more in one season than Mama can in 5 seasons worth of importance.
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Post by PickSCFC on May 18, 2010 13:42:14 GMT
Every goal scored is important therfore Mama's goals have been important, just like any other Stoke goal. Every one of the 20 or so he's scored in the 5 years he's been here have been very important. We'll refer to goals as important from here on in. It's more important though that we have someone who can be important more in one season than Mama can in 5 seasons worth of importance. pulis isnt going to drastically change his style of play though is he and rightly so as its been successful so a big target man is always going to be played and at the moment mama is the best equipped to do the job, go and ask fuller if he would rahter play with tuncay or mama, i guarantee you he will say mama, just like rooney and owen love to play with heskey
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Post by fromafar07 on May 18, 2010 13:42:41 GMT
Sidibe is more effective in our current side than Tuncay What has Tuncay done for us? What has Mama done for us? Mama wins hands down everytime and its time we shipped Tuncay back to Kebab City well hell i will tell you exactly what Sidibe has done for us, make no mistake about it !! He has, hmm, well, he did , well i know he has...... well dammit, i have no clue what he has done for us !!
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Post by PickSCFC on May 18, 2010 13:43:50 GMT
Sidibe is more effective in our current side than Tuncay What has Tuncay done for us? What has Mama done for us? Mama wins hands down everytime and its time we shipped Tuncay back to Kebab City well hell i will tell you exactly what Sidibe has done for us, make no mistake about it !! He has, hmm, well, he did , well i know he has...... well dammit, i have no clue what he has done for us !! thats because you have never seen him play live
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Post by fromafar07 on May 18, 2010 13:47:27 GMT
well hell i will tell you exactly what Sidibe has done for us, make no mistake about it !! He has, hmm, well, he did , well i know he has...... well dammit, i have no clue what he has done for us !! thats because you have never seen him play live DAMMIT, wrong again !! do you not get tired of being wrong all the time ?? but dont get discouraged, one day, and i do mean one day, you might get something right !! as they say, even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then, or, even Sidibe scores a goal every now and then, same thing really !!
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Post by PickSCFC on May 18, 2010 13:51:04 GMT
thats because you have never seen him play live DAMMIT, wrong again !! do you not get tired of being wrong all the time ?? but dont get discouraged, one day, and i do mean one day, you might get something right !! as they say, even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then, or, even Sidibe scores a goal every now and then, same thing really !! hook line and sinker
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Post by fromafar07 on May 18, 2010 13:53:27 GMT
DAMMIT, wrong again !! do you not get tired of being wrong all the time ?? but dont get discouraged, one day, and i do mean one day, you might get something right !! as they say, even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then, or, even Sidibe scores a goal every now and then, same thing really !! hook line and sinker dont even realize when you are insulting yourself !! Hustler, you may be ignorant but damn you are good for a laugh or 2 ;D ;D
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Post by PickSCFC on May 18, 2010 13:56:43 GMT
hook line and sinker dont even realize when you are insulting yourself !! Hustler, you may be ignorant but damn you are good for a laugh or 2 ;D ;D when was the last time you attended a stoke fixture then
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Post by Olgrligm on May 18, 2010 14:10:26 GMT
I'm going to put this very briefly, because honestly repeating the same thing on yet another Sidibe thread gets rather tiring (no offence to anyone there).
Sidibe is in the team because he is our best option in the target man role that we play with. He was one of the four key components of the promotion team and last season he proved that he can just about cut it at Premier League level, or at least in the lower parts of the Premier League table. Sidibe mauled John Terry around (something that was actually quite worrying considering Terry was England captain at the time) and scored vital goals against Brazil and Newcastle. We were a much better team when Mama played than we were when Kitson played in that season, there can be absolutely no doubt about that. This season, he was rushed back into the team because of a dearth of options in the target man role and he's been running on empty. With a full pre-season behind him we'd have seen more performances like in the home game against Everton and fewer like the home game against Villa. Nobody is denying that we need better than Mama, somebody like Jones or Cole. He's nowhere near as bad as some make out, however, and he fits our system like a glove. He's hardly the long ball anti-Christ either. We hoof it to him when he's on the pitch and if he's fit, he'll win it and the ball will stick up there. If he's not on the pitch, we hoof it anyway because we've got nothing else to do with it. The difference is that the ball comes straight back to us. The point is this: Mama proved last season that he can cut it in the Premier League as a squad member and back up to the first team. This season Mama has been half fit and has been absolutely crucified for it.
What really pisses me off is that certain posters like that Keithy George bloke cannot make a single post without coming up with some horseshit 'Sidibe is wank lololololsmileyfacewinkloloolol' comment.
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Post by Cyprusdelilah on May 18, 2010 14:53:31 GMT
when mama plays we ar more effective as a team, just look at when he hasnt played, we have looked lost as there is no one to hit it long to He donna win it anyway, even when he goes up to head the ball on his own, half the time he misses the ball by a couple of feet.
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Post by Pugsley on May 18, 2010 15:27:44 GMT
I'm going to put this very briefly, because honestly repeating the same thing on yet another Sidibe thread gets rather tiring (no offence to anyone there). Sidibe is in the team because he is our best option in the target man role that we play with. He was one of the four key components of the promotion team and last season he proved that he can just about cut it at Premier League level, or at least in the lower parts of the Premier League table. Sidibe mauled John Terry around (something that was actually quite worrying considering Terry was England captain at the time) and scored vital goals against Brazil and Newcastle. We were a much better team when Mama played than we were when Kitson played in that season, there can be absolutely no doubt about that. This season, he was rushed back into the team because of a dearth of options in the target man role and he's been running on empty. With a full pre-season behind him we'd have seen more performances like in the home game against Everton and fewer like the home game against Villa. Nobody is denying that we need better than Mama, somebody like Jones or Cole. He's nowhere near as bad as some make out, however, and he fits our system like a glove. He's hardly the long ball anti-Christ either. We hoof it to him when he's on the pitch and if he's fit, he'll win it and the ball will stick up there. If he's not on the pitch, we hoof it anyway because we've got nothing else to do with it. The difference is that the ball comes straight back to us. The point is this: Mama proved last season that he can cut it in the Premier League as a squad member and back up to the first team. This season Mama has been half fit and has been absolutely crucified for it. What really pisses me off is that certain posters like that Keithy George bloke cannot make a single post without coming up with some horseshit 'Sidibe is wank lololololsmileyfacewinkloloolol' comment. We don't need condescending claptrap to know why he is in the team. The managers narrowminded tactics dictate the fact. All the proof you need is 'This season Mama has been half fit' to know he doesn't know any other way.
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