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Post by Pugsley on Dec 13, 2009 10:05:30 GMT
and buy a proper midfield player ffs.
I'll go with your back four of centre-halves, I'll even tolerate Sidibe, but jesus h christ on a bike, why can't we have someone in the middle of the park who can pass the ball?
We were dominated in midfield by WIGAN.
Fuck Delap off and sort it.
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Post by JoeinOz on Dec 13, 2009 10:07:44 GMT
Thing is Wigan played five in midfield and outnumbered us.
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Post by dadofsam on Dec 13, 2009 10:08:38 GMT
so why didn't our tactical genius spot it and do something?
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 13, 2009 10:08:54 GMT
Thing is Wigan played five in midfield and outnumbered us. Nothing to do with it Joe, we are consistently poor every match. |
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Post by chell_rosey on Dec 13, 2009 10:11:28 GMT
Do you think TP might be building a team and has started from the back and is building up?
Sort your defence first has always been the priority, hasn't it?
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 13, 2009 10:14:48 GMT
Do you think TP might be building a team and has started from the back and is building up? Sort your defence first has always been the priority, hasn't it? What are you on about? He has been at Stoke years - how fucking long and how much money does it take? £40million and 4 years later we still can't string a pass together. |
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Post by wuzza on Dec 13, 2009 10:15:02 GMT
Some of the Wigan midfield play was excellent. Clearly their problems lie in the defence, some of the stuff they produced in other areas was very good.
Given the time Wigan have had in this division it is not suprising they currently have some better players than us - our midfield is a work in progress.
You cant have it all yesterday - the team is being built. Some of our supporters need to stop acting like spoilt kids and have a bit of patience. (and before anyone says it the amount we have spent may be big news for us but its a pittance in Premier League terms).
You were too quick Pugsley - you already had said it !!!!!
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Post by JoeinOz on Dec 13, 2009 10:15:34 GMT
No. The midfield yesterday was much worse than normal. Even being outnumbered shouldn't have caused so much slackness.
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Post by chell_rosey on Dec 13, 2009 10:23:08 GMT
Do you think TP might be building a team and has started from the back and is building up? Sort your defence first has always been the priority, hasn't it? What are you on about? He has been at Stoke years - how fucking long and how much money does it take? £40million and 4 years later we still can't string a pass together. Fair point... ;D |
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Post by dbpotters on Dec 13, 2009 10:29:47 GMT
and buy a proper midfield player ffs. I'll go with your back four of centre-halves, I'll even tolerate Sidibe, but jesus h christ on a bike, why can't we have someone in the middle of the park who can pass the ball? We were dominated in midfield by WIGAN. Fuck Delap off and sort it. Delap is best ive seen at stoke in ages when playin in center mid then we see his quailty.. so i wouldnt get rid just play him in position |
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Post by ruts66 on Dec 13, 2009 10:34:35 GMT
Pulis likes players of a certain type playing in a certain way.
He could win Fabregas, Carrick, Mascherano and Essien in a game of poker and he'd still have them treading backwards on our centre halves toes.
Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
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Post by 811 on Dec 13, 2009 10:55:06 GMT
Do you think TP might be building a team and has started from the back and is building up? Sort your defence first has always been the priority, hasn't it? What are you on about? He has been at Stoke years - how fucking long and how much money does it take? £40million and 4 years later we still can't string a pass together. correct. |
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Post by Mcdanger on Dec 13, 2009 10:59:49 GMT
we only passed the ball when whelan came on, and actually whelan had a chance wen he BROKE thro and could have scored! aint rocket science
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Post by Numismatist on Dec 13, 2009 11:03:15 GMT
Not sure Carrick belongs in that quartet of bluebloods Ruts66 but a most valid point nonetheless ;D
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Post by stokelad84 on Dec 13, 2009 11:06:06 GMT
Its the way we set up, it will always be the same until TP changes his tactics (probably never!) so just get used to the opposition having more posession, I did a long time ago
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Post by 811 on Dec 13, 2009 11:06:34 GMT
if only we had had the foresight to sign bowyer, cracking signing for brum and exactly the type we need, we'd of never signed bowyer though under tp in a million years.
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Post by Numismatist on Dec 13, 2009 11:09:28 GMT
Bowyer's been a revelation this season. Would have been a hard call to make though. Hadn't done anything in the preceding five years+
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 13, 2009 11:17:43 GMT
Some of the Wigan midfield play was excellent. Clearly their problems lie in the defence, some of the stuff they produced in other areas was very good. Given the time Wigan have had in this division it is not suprising they currently have some better players than us - our midfield is a work in progress. You cant have it all yesterday - the team is being built. Some of our supporters need to stop acting like spoilt kids and have a bit of patience. (and before anyone says it the amount we have spent may be big news for us but its a pittance in Premier League terms). You were too quick Pugsley - you already had said it !!!!! I don't follow your logic here wuzza at all. You say that Wigan have got better midfielders than us because of the length of time they've been in Prem and that Stoke fans should have patience instead of acting like spoilt kids whilst at the same time conceding that Wigan have problems in defence. Well if your logic is sound about them having better players because of the length of time that they've been in the Prem then why don't they have better defenders than us as well? I just can't see how you can be so condescending to Stoke fans who simply want to see a midfielder at the club who can find his colleagues more often than not when he passes the damn ball. |
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Post by ruts66 on Dec 13, 2009 11:23:02 GMT
"Its the way we set up, it will always be the same, so just get used to it, I did a long time ago"
Whereas, Stokelad, the so-called PHWs will never surrender to such gutless apathy...
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Post by smokeyjoe on Dec 13, 2009 11:40:09 GMT
diao, shitehead and delap all need to be replaced. Delap was the worst player on the pitch yesterday - what the hell was he thinking when he kicked the ball up the touchline. Every team we play, top of league or bottom, win the midfield battle. Opposing teams break and get straight to our penalty area - virtually unchallenged because our midfield has retreated that far. It doesn't need much explanation as to why we've scored the least goals this season. We have capable strikers, just no creativity from midfield. Wigan, wolves, hull and portsmouth have all controlled the midfield against us. Surely the best form of defence is attack, but we need midfielders who can feed our strikers, who can string passes together, and ultimately, score goals themselves. What we don't need is 3 extra defenders, who cant score, can't pass and can't create opportunities for our strikers. Get it sorted, Pulis
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Post by ruts66 on Dec 13, 2009 11:42:30 GMT
diao, shitehead and delap all need to be replaced. Delap was the worst player on the pitch yesterday - what the hell was he thinking when he kicked the ball up the touchline. Every team we play, top of league or bottom, win the midfield battle. Opposing teams break and get straight to our penalty area - virtually unchallenged because our midfield has retreated that far. It doesn't need much explanation as to why we've scored the least goals this season. We have capable strikers, just no creativity from midfield. Wigan, wolves, hull and portsmouth have all controlled the midfield against us. Surely the best form of defence is attack, but we need midfielders who can feed our strikers, who can string passes together, and ultimately, score goals themselves. What we don't need is 3 extra defenders, who cant score, can't pass and can't create opportunities for our strikers. Get it sorted, Pulis Amen... ;D |
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Post by 811 on Dec 13, 2009 11:47:08 GMT
diao, shitehead and delap all need to be replaced. Delap was the worst player on the pitch yesterday - what the hell was he thinking when he kicked the ball up the touchline. Every team we play, top of league or bottom, win the midfield battle. Opposing teams break and get straight to our penalty area - virtually unchallenged because our midfield has retreated that far. It doesn't need much explanation as to why we've scored the least goals this season. We have capable strikers, just no creativity from midfield. Wigan, wolves, hull and portsmouth have all controlled the midfield against us. Surely the best form of defence is attack, but we need midfielders who can feed our strikers, who can string passes together, and ultimately, score goals themselves. What we don't need is 3 extra defenders, who cant score, can't pass and can't create opportunities for our strikers. Get it sorted, Pulis agreed, the most worrying thing of all is when we are attacking the southstand delap spends a whole 45 minutes directly under pulis' nose and he doesn't seem to see it.  |
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Post by ruts66 on Dec 13, 2009 11:49:35 GMT
No mate, Pulis does see it and he likes it...
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Post by wuzza on Dec 13, 2009 11:52:11 GMT
My point is Paul that you cant instantly land on top quality midfield players - teams like Wigan have been constantly trading up for a good time longer than we have (and they will probably lose a lot of them to bigger clubs in due course). That sort of ability isnt manufactured or coached - defences by and large are and as such we should be eternily grateful that we have a coaching team that has been capable of doing that.
On a separate note the constant derogatory references to Dean Whitehaed as displayed by some in this thread are now nearly as boring as they are pathetic !
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Post by trebor63 on Dec 13, 2009 12:04:05 GMT
Do you think TP might be building a team and has started from the back and is building up? Sort your defence first has always been the priority, hasn't it? What are you on about? He has been at Stoke years - how fucking long and how much money does it take? £40million and 4 years later we still can't string a pass together. LOL at Pugsley ;D Your ignorance knows no bounds! I'll let you know about TPs entire time a6t the club in case (as I suspect) you're a newcomer  When TP first joined us we were hurtling towards the third division so he made a team of dogged fighters who would drag us clear. he did brilliantly well and achieved what many felt nobody could. Then he built a side which would be capable of surviving with comfort which once again he did on a shoestring. Sadly the Icelandics who helped save the club made an enormous error in replacing TP and in came a whole host of incredibly poor players and as a result poor results. Once again TP came back and steadied the ship and this time was given the finances (but nowhere near as much as lots of our rivals) and he got us mounting a challenge to the play offs. At this point the PHWs arrived and were almost gloating about the fact he couldn't take us to the next level and would certainly never be capable of managing in the top level. Four or five PHWs debated endlessly and couldn't believe that other people couldn't see what they could see so clearly ;D Bless them! After our inevitable promotion on a comparitive shoestring the PHWs rubbed their little hands together in anticipation at the clueless manager fielding a team of out of position donkeys getting drubbed every week. Sadly for them Stoke stormed the league and ended up almost halfway. And so to the new season and the third team that TP has built, I know this might be a hard concept to grasp for one of our newer fans, but the team has been evolving and we needed a completely new team for completely new challenges under TPs tenure. PS if you still struggle understanding anything please feel free to ask |
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Dec 13, 2009 12:07:26 GMT
I trhink if we are goi9ng to play Fuller and Tuncay together then Whelan needs to play as he is better at putting the ball into their feet which they need to be effective , its an area where weneed to improve although i did think whitehead did well yesterday . Rory cant play wide any more and back up for Lawrence perhaps a bright young wide playershould be a priority in January
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Post by Paul Spencer on Dec 13, 2009 12:10:02 GMT
My point is Paul that you cant instantly land on top quality midfield players - teams like Wigan have been constantly trading up for a good time longer than we have (and they will probably lose a lot of them to bigger clubs in due course). That sort of ability isnt manufactured or coached - defences by and large are and as such we should be eternily grateful that we have a coaching team that has been capable of doing that. On a separate note the constant derogatory references to Dean Whitehaed as displayed by some in this thread are now nearly as boring as they are pathetic ! Wuzza I completely disagree with you mate. Coaching is just as important ALL OVER the pitch. Indeed Whitehead himself said he struggled when he first joined Stoke and he had to be 'coached' into how the manager wanted him to play in this midfield. The reason Wigan have got better passers of the ball in midfield than Stoke is because there is less emphasis placed on the ability to pass the ball here than at many other clubs IMHO. We defend deep, tackle and get rid, the manager doesn't actually want us to spend time passing the ball around to each other but to get it as far up into the opposition half as quickly as possible. It's not a tactic I personally have to much of a problem with, however I was taking issue with you for being so condescending to other people, when I didn't believe that the reasoning you offered was actually correct. |
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Post by griffoisalegend on Dec 13, 2009 12:12:38 GMT
We're not ready to progress yet, yes Delap shouldn't be in right midfield but Lawrence has got that spot now I feel. He's just been unlucky with injuries.
Whelan is VERY hit and miss, and for the next 2 seasons, as ugly as it will be, we will have to make do with the Diao's,Whitehead's and Delaps - any attempt to make our midfield more cultured may bring us to the stage when we are in deep danger of surrendering our championship(premiership I mean, still feel as though we're in the championship though as we're gutted when drawing at home) status.
if this thread was made two years down the line, I'd understand it. But we've been a premiership club for about a year now, and still have a long way to go before we can start to really bring in top players - we have to do it slowly.
If we were in 18th place, then they'd NEED to be replaced - we're in a very comfortable position at the moment and I feel the only thing that could change that is complacency, not much else.
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Post by icelandpotter on Dec 13, 2009 12:14:51 GMT
What are you on about? He has been at Stoke years - how fucking long and how much money does it take? £40million and 4 years later we still can't string a pass together. LOL at Pugsley ;D Your ignorance knows no bounds! I'll let you know about TPs entire time a6t the club in case (as I suspect) you're a newcomer When TP first joined us we were hurtling towards the third division so he made a team of dogged fighters who would drag us clear. he did brilliantly well and achieved what many felt nobody could. Then he built a side which would be capable of surviving with comfort which once again he did on a shoestring. Sadly the Icelandics who helped save the club made an enormous error in replacing TP and in came a whole host of incredibly poor players and as a result poor results. Once again TP came back and steadied the ship and this time was given the finances (but nowhere near as much as lots of our rivals) and he got us mounting a challenge to the play offs. At this point the PHWs arrived and were almost gloating about the fact he couldn't take us to the next level and would certainly never be capable of managing in the top level. Four or five PHWs debated endlessly and couldn't believe that other people couldn't see what they could see so clearly ;D Bless them! After our inevitable promotion on a comparitive shoestring the PHWs rubbed their little hands together in anticipation at the clueless manager fielding a team of out of position donkeys getting drubbed every week. Sadly for them Stoke stormed the league and ended up almost halfway. And so to the new season and the third team that TP has built, I know this might be a hard concept to grasp for one of our newer fans, but the team has been evolving and we needed a completely new team for completely new challenges under TPs tenure. PS if you still struggle understanding anything please feel free to ask What I think the OP is saying is that it hasn't evolved enough in terms of the midfield. It's excruciatingly obvious that the missing link between our great defence and great attack is at least one creative midfielder who can pass and run forward. |
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Post by smokeyjoe on Dec 13, 2009 12:15:22 GMT
I still say Lawrence would be perfect for centre midfield. 2 pacy wingers outside of him - Etherington and a right winger, such as scott sinclair, and a better equivalent of Diao as the defensive midfielder. sorted!
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