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Post by tijuanabrass on Dec 31, 2007 2:58:56 GMT
I thought the Fans Forum were in favour of the ID cards. Weren't the cards vindicated because a racist once went to Germany and shouted some abuse at players. If we can't control our 'bad apples' abroad how can we be expected to do it at the likes of Derby, Hull and Plymouth.  As a vehicle of the community it is the football club's responsibillity to Police and regulate the city's population wherever they travel on match day. I wonder when the club are going to take a firmer hand with fans that use their cars to speed to and from the matches? Surely this also comes under their governance?  |
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Post by vientianescfc on Dec 31, 2007 4:17:02 GMT
I think I am missing something here - at the AWAY ground they open a cash turnstile but Stoke City are supposed to know about it and tell people beforehand? Surely it's up to the AWAY club to actually inform people that a cash turnstile will be open?
People posted on here that they rung the Barnsley ticket office and even THEY told them that there was NO cash turnstile! So just how would the Sentinel or the club know if the away team is saying there won't be one???? Telepathy?
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Post by Stafford-Stokie on Dec 31, 2007 8:34:44 GMT
Why not just bin the ID cards and have the old bill do their job. It wouldn't take long to catch the trouble makers with the use of cameras etc. Once they are caught and banned for life then problem solved. Its time they stopped making life difficult for people that have done nowt wrong. The fact is that football trouble goes on all the time but 99% of the time it is organised before hand by phone and is miles from the ground. Get rid of the cards and bring back the spur of the moment fans. Sorry. Rant over.  |
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Post by BristolMick on Dec 31, 2007 10:58:00 GMT
I think I am missing something here - at the AWAY ground they open a cash turnstile but Stoke City are supposed to know about it and tell people beforehand? Surely it's up to the AWAY club to actually inform people that a cash turnstile will be open? People posted on here that they rung the Barnsley ticket office and even THEY told them that there was NO cash turnstile! So just how would the Sentinel or the club know if the away team is saying there won't be one???? Telepathy? The away club opening a cash turnstyle clearly shows that they do not support Stoke's hardline attitude to:- a) Their insistance that it must be all ticket for all Stoke fans no matter what the circumstances. b) That only people who Stoke say can buy a ticket are allowed to buy a ticket. Stoke must know that they no longer enjoy the wholehearted support of the opposition clubs and that the away club is willing to let people pay on the day. However they choose to carry on with the pretence that everything is as it ever was. They choose not to tell supporters and as the sentinel is not likely to want to upset the club on such a matter it will not print anything on this subject that the club does not wish it to. BM |
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Post by vientianescfc on Dec 31, 2007 11:31:20 GMT
The away club opening a cash turnstyle clearly shows that they do not support Stoke's hardline attitude to:- a) Their insistance that it must be all ticket for all Stoke fans no matter what the circumstances. b) That only people who Stoke say can buy a ticket are allowed to buy a ticket. Stoke must know that they no longer enjoy the wholehearted support of the opposition clubs and that the away club is willing to let people pay on the day. However they choose to carry on with the pretence that everything is as it ever was. They choose not to tell supporters and as the sentinel is not likely to want to upset the club on such a matter it will not print anything on this subject that the club does not wish it to. BM Your point is what exactly?? The away club doesn't tell the supporters or SCFC that a pay on the day turnstile is open - so what is the big deal? The away day rules that SCFC abide by are that all away supporters should be holders of the 'ID Card', if the opposition decide they want to make more cash or let in those who aren't then again why should SCFC be aware or advertise this fact? SCFC introduced the ID cards to try and rid themselves of the mindless idiots that turned up on spec and associated themselves with SCFC! Seems as like most of your arguments you just want to in some way make bad of SCFC - SCFC in this circumstance are doing exactly what they stand by i.e. not away selling ticket to non id-card holders, the fact that the opposing team has decided they don't care isn't within SCFCs hands - so why do you expect SCFC to tell fans that they can pay at the turnstiles regardless? So if the opposing team lets all SCFC fans know that they are opening cash turnstile and letting in any 'SCFC fans' - then there is mass crowd disturbance who is to blame? Since it patently obvious that the away club will blame SCFC even though it was there decision to allow anyone entry. |
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Post by BristolMick on Dec 31, 2007 12:11:45 GMT
My point is that Stoke are continuing with the scheme and its full draconian restrictions no matter how LOW RISK the fixture might be and thus inconveniencing a large number of THEIR supporters , eliminating the ability to make a spur of the moment decision to SUPPORT the club. It is Stoke who are treating their supporters with contempt and it might be better for us as a club if they didn't!
If you have read my posts you will know that I am not having a go at the club for no reason and that I simply want them to implement the scheme with some common sense that will not alienate large numbers of well behaved supporters.
If the home club decide to allow anyone in, Stoke cannot possibly cop the blame if there is trouble just because they decide to inform their supporters!
As usual you are just taking a contrary view for the sake of it but then again it doesn't affect you living on the other side of the world does it?
BM
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Post by eddyclamp on Dec 31, 2007 13:12:10 GMT
It was me that was posting about Barnsley tickets and the situation .It was on stokes official web site you could pay on the day at the Barnsley ticket office,then it wasn`t.Barnsley told me twice,from different people that there would be no tickets on sale or turnstile open.I informed Barnsley at the time that we were ID card holders and as such we expected to prove this when we got the tickets .We did not know until xmas day due to family comitments that we could go.So,we miss a game,Barnsley lose money.A no win situation.I remember last year at Coventry a steward said to me that one turnstile was for pay on the day.
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Post by trebor63 on Dec 31, 2007 13:41:52 GMT
The last five or so years have pretty much got rid of Stokes bad boy reputation and as such those of us that go are generally treated better by opposition fans and police, better than we were.
However I totally agree that if we keep the ID card there is no reason whatsoever why we shouldn't have the option of a pay on the day turnstile.
People due to work (or many other) commitments may find at the last minute they can attend a match they thought was out of the question (this happens to me in mid week games quite often) and games I've opted out of I could have gone to with hindsight.
Surely the fans forum should be banging the drum on AT LEAST a compromise of a pay on the day option
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Post by bostedclog on Dec 31, 2007 13:42:14 GMT
I Just phoned the club about these supposed cash turnstiles and they say its a load of rubbish.just thought id settle it.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Dec 31, 2007 13:48:21 GMT
I Just phoned the club about these supposed cash turnstiles and they say its a load of rubbish.just thought id settle it. I stood looking at the cash turnstiles at Plymouth. If I was you, I'd ring back to whoever gave you that information and ask them if they would like to own up to being either misinformed or a liar. Perhaps you would be so good as to tell us who at the club made this statement? |
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Post by trebor63 on Dec 31, 2007 13:51:38 GMT
Bosted I know the club say that AND as I said at the start of the thread the Barnsley chairman said it was rubbish too, BUT it did still happen!
I personally wouldn't risk going without a ticket but if the option is there its madness to not let it be known. And if the option isn't there, it should be!
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Post by bostedclog on Dec 31, 2007 13:52:29 GMT
OK Mark.One thing though i went to barnsley and you had to walk through a gate where stewards were asking for id or guest list people i never saw any cash tunstiles mate
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Post by vientianescfc on Dec 31, 2007 13:58:13 GMT
I am not taking the contrary view for the sake of it. Every Stoke supporter knows if they want to see away games the current situation is they need an ID card. As I said before If away teams open cash turnstiles without either informing the club or even people who enquire with them direct how in hells name are Stoke City supposed to know?!?!?! Just because I am on the other side of the world doesn't disguise the fact that some people talk bollox and whinge just for the sake of it. It was exactly the same when I was in the UK. Sure it would be nice for the club and the away club to turn around and say 'any ID card holders can purchase tickets at the ground' but at the end of it all it's down to the away team to arrange for this to take place. Oh look my 'Karma' has dropped 2 to -1 .. .. .. play good girls. |
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Bonkolina
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Post by Bonkolina on Dec 31, 2007 14:00:53 GMT
Eddy,
I was at the Coventry game last season and was gobsmacked they had a cash turnstile. As the Ricoh was non smoking I stood outside the ground having a ciggie watching happy stokies pay cash to watch the match. Personally i think SCFC have backed themselves into a corner re theTrueSmug/IDiot card while allowing Staffordshires finest to shag them up the arse and as The Fans Forum fiddles while Rome is burning
GD
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Dec 31, 2007 14:04:01 GMT
vientianscfc,
I can only say that I am amazed that anyone can consider it no problem when the club decides not to keep its customers informed of such matters or, even worse, deliberately misinforms them.
Perhaps the fact that you are so far away has contributed to you missing the repeated promisies of the CE that the whole matter of ID cards would be reviewed and reforms considered (such as pay turnstiles and low risk games not requiring cards), followed by deafening silence on the whole matter.
It may be whinging and bollox when you are in South East Asia but maybe you might consider it an important issue for those who have a realistic opportunity to attend games without having to plan ahead but go if the fancy takes them.
You know, the thing every other supporter in the country does.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2007 14:13:04 GMT
I can only see it as witheld information if the away club have decided to open a turnstile for cash then SCFC must know about it but choose not to say ??? I dont see the problem anyhoos if you still have to show your ID and then just pay to get in what the feck is the problem.
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Post by OldStokie on Dec 31, 2007 15:26:11 GMT
Apparently, they don't. Neither do they have to have tickets which is the point BM [and others] are making. He's also making the point that SCFC are deliberately misleading the supporters on this issue or are so blasé about the situation that they are incompetant.
OS.
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Post by myleftboot on Dec 31, 2007 15:30:58 GMT
I see where you are going with the pay on the day turnstyles. Indeed if you have a card with your picture on it then you can be easily recognised. At Barnsley there were stewards checkiing the away cards way before you got to the turnstyles.
My thought is that the club like you to buy tickets so that they can keep tabs more on where people are as regards seating and to save time. When you buy at the club ticket office and they issue your ticket with your name on it does that not mean that it is easier to know where someone was sitting if trouble kicked off than if people paid on the gate and had to be issued with tickets and time taken to then allocate them with a seat.
I know it sounds daft but it is just the way the club is going it seems. By the way I am fully against the ID card scheme as our away crowds haven't half diminished but we won't get into the whole issue of that.
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Post by eddyclamp on Dec 31, 2007 16:32:58 GMT
My left boot
Most of the time people just sit where they want to at away games.If anyone did want to cause trouble,I am sure they would make sure that they were not sitting where they should be to avoid detection.
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Post by eddyclamp on Dec 31, 2007 16:42:40 GMT
Can we see this as a solution with the current ID cards.
I have just looked at our remaining fixtures for the season.
Can`t see many games where we will sell our entire allocation,however if there are games that could sell out,the club must put a statement on the official web site telling all supporters that there will be no entrance on the day,and inform smudge so that he can also post on here.That way we all know it`s kosha.
If nothing is said on the oatcake or the club site,then we can assume that we can pay on the day with the production of the ID card.
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Post by clactonpotter on Dec 31, 2007 16:42:50 GMT
Do the club want away support..?
It would appear not,so why purchase an i.d. card?
If people voted with their wallet the impact might promote change if the club does not wish to listen to its fans?
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Post by BristolMick on Dec 31, 2007 17:16:03 GMT
Sure it would be nice for the club and the away club to turn around and say 'any ID card holders can purchase tickets at the ground' but at the end of it all it's down to the away team to arrange for this to take place. I think you misunderstand who drives this scheme. It is Stoke City NOT the clubs who we play. It is Stoke NOT the away club who insist on it being all ticket bought in advance for all Stoke fans for all games. Clearly the away clubs are opening a cash turnstyle because they are not happy with the amount of tickets that Stoke are selling with their totalitarian scheme. It isn't just yesterday it has happened many times including at Ashton Gate in October. It is inconceivable that Stoke (and the police) dont know there will be a cash turnstyle at any given game. Therefore why are they neglecting to tell us? BM |
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Post by eddyclamp on Dec 31, 2007 17:19:57 GMT
Mick
If the club say nothing,thenit keeps them in the clear if any trouble was to kick off,and in saying nothing then we can asume that we can pay on the day,if you know what I mean
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Post by BristolMick on Dec 31, 2007 17:35:16 GMT
Eddy I think they are in the clear anyway if the other club makes the decision to allow Stokies to pay on the day. Stoke not informing their supporters simply inconveniences that vast majority of their fans and ensures that less people are there to support the team.
I was on the Fans Forum when this scheme was brought in and was the only dissenting voice. The disturbing thing is that I felt that the chief exec at the time and your representatives on the FF mainly had an attitude of general contempt and superiority towards the rank and file fan base and I think that this attitude still prevails.
There cannot be another club who treats its fans with such disdain can there?
BM
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Post by eddyclamp on Dec 31, 2007 17:50:50 GMT
Mick they did inform us for the Barnsley game,then the statement was removed.barnsley said there would be no tickets.then they were being sold at the ground.Think this was more to do with barnsley than stoke.Then stoke removed it off their website at Barnsley`s request.
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Post by BristolMick on Dec 31, 2007 17:58:36 GMT
Unless of course Eddy someone in a junior position at Stoke had arranged off their own back with Sharon in the ticket office at Barnsley to sell tickets on the day and when the chief exec found out about it went ballistic and asked his friends in the police to lean on Barnsley?
Maybe Barnsley played ball to a point by denying the existence of a cash turnstyle but let in those fans who turned up anyway. Maybe Plymouth, Bristol City and Coventry told Stoke they would let in whoever they wanted to.
BM
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Post by eddyclamp on Dec 31, 2007 18:08:31 GMT
Good point Mick
Again it`s us fans that pick the tab up.
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Post by RobPa on Dec 31, 2007 18:27:43 GMT
i remember seeing people paying at gillingham few seasons ago, am amazed, sometimes i have skive work to get a ticket yet i can go some games and just pay on the day
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Bonkolina
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Post by Bonkolina on Jan 1, 2008 9:31:50 GMT
Myleftboot, If my memory serves me correct fans were informed that the ID card would only be needed on entering the away ground. The situation of a card being checked by the police in pubs before the game or stewards around the ground was not going to happen. I may be wrong regarding that (plus I wonder of the legality of it if the person in question is going about their lawful business). Maybe someone who thinks they are wonderful (Fans Forum member prehaps ? ) could tell me GD |
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