Buying the Brit

[broadwayroundabout]

Do you think this upsurge in positive playing/scoring/support/TPbeing the special one, has anything to do with PC finalising the deal and owning the Brit ? He really must be smiling from ear to ear and its spreading to us all ;D

[mark71]

I don't think it's just buying the ground, our league position, players we've signed or the football were now playing that has put everyone in a positive mood, it's all of these things put together.
After a very long wait our exile from the top flight of English football could be over very soon.

[CalgaryPotter]

I can't wait to see what happens in the transfer window.

If Coates puts the money in to get us promoted I'll be amazed if he doesn't sell us for huge dough at the end of the season.

If you compare us to some of the clubs that are consistently talked about in terms of a sale then I'd think we look a superb investment.

The full acquisition of the ground will have been a shrewd move on his part.

[broadwayroundabout]

I don't know any figures but we really must be one of the most stable clubs in the country considering we have a "new" stadium, new stadium, little or no debt to speak of, very decent position in the league, surely we must look attractive to potential signings ?.....fair play to PC

[Stafford-Stokie]

I cant wait till the old place gets a lick o paint. Will be interesting to see what he does with it now as he said things will be done once he had full ownership.

[Deleted]

Above all else Mr Coates knows full well that any potential sale of this club will now include a massive asset and that is the ground and to gain it for 6 Million he must be well chuffed. If you were a looking to buy a club then we probably look that little bit more attractive. Even more so if Owd Coatsey backs us all the way to the prem.

[CalgaryPotter]

Bang on there Sidders.

If you took a guess at him having put in a maximum of 20m then he could completely clear up.
Think about it:-

- Is it 60m for promotion plus parachute payments or does that include them?
- An asset in the ground and land that must be worth 20m
- Premiership sponsorship and attendance revenues
- The asset of the players will increase

If an investor came in they would have to be looking at 100m to get into this club. 4-1 return for Coates at worst.

[eeebygum]

There are no guarantees in football (!!) but i live in hope of promotion and staying there! For me though the Club and what it doing at the moment, means it is becoming bigger, better and genuinely more competitive. That's got to create excitement and expectation across the city, and hopefully we will see attendances and support grow likewise......... come on people.....?!!

[Lakeland Potter]

Optimistic figures Calgary. It is £30 million in Sky money guaranteed with up to £50 million if we won the league! Plus increased gate receipts and sponsorship. Then parachute payments (if relegated) of £11 million for up to two years.

Against that, are a very much bigger wage bill (two, three, four times as much?) and bigger fees for any players we buy.

If you look at what other clubs in the Prem change hands for then only the very biggest change hands for over £100 million. £25 million to £50 million is more likely for a club of our size. Remember the income looks good but the profits for lower end Premiership clubs are mostly low and some clubs still make a loss and it is the profit potential which determines what a buyer will pay.

If we get to the Prem then Coates would be able to take a profit on his venture should he wish to do so but it won't be as big as you suggest.

[Deleted]

Fornside, do any of the top six in the division return a profit? I assume Derby will make some sort of profit this season?

[stokecityscott]

Charlton lost 9.7m this year, and sold Bent for £15m too.

[Lakeland Potter]

No reason why any club in the Prem shouldn't make a profit. But the biggest clubs all spend too much chasing the dream. Those below them should make a profit if they don't pay daft fees for players and keep their wage bill within bounds. I'd say Derby will make a profit and probably Birmingham (as neither has spent huge amounts) but Sunderland have spent a fair bit (and will spend more next month) and they already had large debts to begin with so I'd expect them to make a big loss. It seems to me that those who just spend spend spend when faced with the prospect of relegation are the ones who lose the most. Better financially to accept a yo yo existance than throw money at a lost cause.

[CalgaryPotter]

It wasn't meant to be a full blown due diligence mate.
I was just making the point that there was guaranteed money coming our way, which according to your figures is 52m approximately.

Other clubs of our size are probably not sitting with as healthy a balance sheet as us. Yes we've posted losses in the last few years but nothing in comparison to some clubs. Their debts alone cripple them.

As a purchaser we would look a very good investment especially with 52m heading our way gratis of Sky etc ;D

[vodkastoke]

You are deluded if you think a individual or consortium would buy us for 52 million. This club has been making losses year after year, OK the buying of the ground adds value to our overall worth but we are way way below the 52 million mark even if we made the premiership.
The ground will never get over 26,550 through the turnstiles unless expanded (i know the official figure is 28500) so the Brit is tiny in premiership stakes.
Our location is also a disadvantage, so close to Birmingham & Manchester yet we fail to attract investors to our area which says something. Coates might not be everybody's cup of tea but he is doing a fantastic job and perhaps people should see it from his specs and what a difficult and stressful job he has got on his hands. If there it one man to bump up our image and sort our finances out it is indeed him.

[Lakeland Potter]

Vodka, in Calgary's latest post, the £52 million was the minimum increase in income (over 3 years) that getting to the Premiership is worth - ie 1 year's TV money plus 2 years parachute payments. It was not an estimate of what the club is worth to a buyer.

And although I pointed out that his original estimate of the club's value was highly optimistic, he is correct that a club in the Prem with little or no debt and a reasonably new stadium would be attractive to a buyer. Coates could get his money back and make a profit - IF HE CHOSE TO DO SO after promotion.

For what it is worth, I don't think Coates would sell up if we got promoted although he would possibly try to bring another investor on board (as he has been trying to do for the past two years). Unlike last time, I doubt if many fans would object to him making a profit on some or all of his shares if we got promoted this season.

[knowingeye]

Rough value with all taken into account, Stadium, Mich, league position, low borrowings, Premier potential etc is about £22million-£24million. Debatable, I know, but a fair approximate valuation.

[Lakeland Potter]

I'd agree with that valuation, ke. Or at least it would be in the region of that amount. More to come, of course, if/when we got promoted and once the Mich and the Brit are developed a bit more.

[knowingeye]

Seasons greetings Fornie!

[Lakeland Potter]

And to you KE. I managed a white Christmas Day but only by climbing to 3,000 ft on Helvellyn! Blowing a hoolie today and floods everywhere.

[Deleted]

I think the family trust fund would look to sell up, if we went up. It's what they do (or have done up to now, anyway).

We're aren't that attrative to foriegn investors though, Stoke isn't going to sell many stripey shirts in China for a while yet (we've cornered the Australian market though). Nobody is chucking money at the Derby board, and the Brum take over has collapsed. West Brom don't seem to be having much trouble fighting bids off either (so Yo-Yo doesn't appear to be what all these rich folk want).

Maybe one of the other "rich stokies" will come out of the wood work to give the Coates Trust a helping hand (as Phil did with the IceMen) but a full sale, for a big profit, will take some doing (at least in our first couple of years in the Prem ... if we stayed up)


BTW: Assets - What are the tax-rules on the sale of fixed assets; I conner remember what got changed after the climb down on inherritance tax?

fornside said:

Unlike last time, I doubt if many fans would object to him making a profit on some or all of his shares if we got promoted this season.

I need a lie down!



ah

[knowingeye]

Taper tax relief of 10% of new shares issued in the first twelve months or something like that. So the sooner they sell less tax paid, in other words. But that's not the driving force. Peter Coates isn't getting any younger and the pressure from running Stoke City must be taking it's toll on him. he wanted to get the club back on an even financial keel, create stability and look towards delivering a premiership club. He's nearly done all of that and well done to him, but to take it into and maintain that standard takes much more than perhaps he wants to invest and there will be investors who want to take on the challenge. The World's a big place!

[Etain Tur-Mukan]

vodkastoke said:

The ground will never get over 26,550 through the turnstiles unless expanded (i know the official figure is 28500)

We had a full house against Everton...