WurstBoy
Youth Player
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Posts: 496
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Post by WurstBoy on Aug 17, 2008 6:03:19 GMT
Just watched the first half on Football First - Shawcross was directly to blame for goals 2 and 3. I would expect Faye and Cort to be the starting CBs based on that. Shawcross has got to improve - he simply failed to attack the ball - twice - result 2 goals for them.
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Post by PotterLog on Aug 17, 2008 6:08:22 GMT
I think there's too much on his shoulders - he's just a lad and he's being asked to basically lead our defence in the Premiership. He was asked to do it last year and with a monumental effort he did, but he needs an experienced talker alongside him. Cort isn't up to that task - hopefully Abdo will be.
He's a better defender than Cort, I'd have Abdo and ryan as the CBs.
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Post by Soi Cowboy on Aug 17, 2008 6:15:44 GMT
Have to agree-must go with Cort and Faye unless we bring someone else in
Shawcross was so out of his depth yesterday was worrying. Easy to say he has no one talking to him etc but doesn't excuse a desperately poor performance. We can't risk slack marking like that every week. Was seriously at fault for 2 goals.
Having said that he looked liked Bobby Moore compared to Hoefkens- he was absolutely dire for WBA- Meite covered his arse every time Arsenal attacked.
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WurstBoy
Youth Player
Please leave your message after the beep. Rebekah will respond later.
Posts: 496
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Post by WurstBoy on Aug 17, 2008 6:30:42 GMT
Shawcross nearly at fault for another - fortunately Kitson cleared Nolan's effort - whilst Shawcross watched on dumbfounded. Almost like a rabbit caught in the headlights. Perhaps it was just the Shock and Awe of the Premiership and his nerves will settle - let's hope so.
Superb cross by Dickinson though and a great header from Fuller.
We looked much better with Lawrence and Fuller running with the ball.
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Post by robwahlmann on Aug 17, 2008 8:09:01 GMT
I agree shawcross was shocking when they scored number 2 and 3, but the situation where Kitson cleared the line was caused by Olifinjana who just let Nolan drift into the box.
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sheffieldstokie82
Youth Player
Watching games at night in NZ really changes the way you think about things.
Posts: 370
Location: Wellington, NZ
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Post by sheffieldstokie82 on Aug 17, 2008 8:14:52 GMT
How did Dickinson do? It looked a good cross for the goal how did he look defensively?
Very odd decision to play Wilko at left back hopefully that'll change for Villa!
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Post by iancransonsknees on Aug 17, 2008 8:24:44 GMT
The entire team, never mind Shawcross, needs a talismanic 'Gerry Taggert' type if we are to get through this season. A bin there, done that veteran who is worth giving £30,000 a week to if it drags things out until the last match, a la Reading in Pulis's first season.
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Post by nonameface on Aug 17, 2008 8:25:46 GMT
Shawcross was poor as soon as he got nutted in the face, before then Cort and Shawcross were having a good game. Shawcross is doing alot and is learning alot at the same time but I think next game it will have to be Faye and Cort and then as the season goes on Faye and Shawcross.
Think that Dickinson should have started down the left but we definately need a left mid similar in the mould to Lawrence and then two decent full backs.
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Post by padders01 on Aug 17, 2008 8:30:51 GMT
I think he just got bullied out of it by a very experienced pro (Kevin Davies) who knows how to rough up defenders and Shawcross has probably never come across a striker like him yet.
He will learn from that yesterday and learn to give the striker a kick at the beignning of the game and show the striker who is boss. Shawcross is better than Cort and hopefully Faye will come in and help him along this season
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Post by pugster on Aug 17, 2008 8:36:06 GMT
I didn't get a ticket for Bolton. Can anybody who went tell me what our ball retention was like?
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Post by Rebelliousjukebox on Aug 17, 2008 9:15:20 GMT
"Shawcross was poor as soon as he got nutted in the face, before then Cort and Shawcross were having a good game. Shawcross is doing alot and is learning alot at the same time but I think next game it will have to be Faye and Cort and then as the season goes on Faye and Shawcross."
Was going to say the same - Kevin Davies' accidently-on-purpose elbow in Shawcross' face seemed to leave him bewildered.
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Post by CraigWally on Aug 17, 2008 9:52:33 GMT
I didn't get a ticket for Bolton. Can anybody who went tell me what our ball retention was like? ball retention? Stoke? don't be daft I'd rather have Shawcross than Cort TBH
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Post by barndoorbanjo on Aug 17, 2008 10:00:18 GMT
With big John Carew in town next week I don't want to see young Ryan getting out muscled again. Ryan on the bench next week for me I'm afraid.
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Post by smokeyjoe on Aug 17, 2008 10:08:26 GMT
shawcross was poor yesterday. For boltons 2nd goal, he was more concerned with restraining the bolton player by linking arms, than attacking the ball. We all know he's passionate about his football, but he's defending against a much higher class of striker than last season. I'd love to see shawcross start every game, but on yesterday's showing, i dont think he's made the transition yet. Perhaps needs a more experienced CB alongside him
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Post by sheikh al dubai bin stokie on Aug 17, 2008 10:12:25 GMT
tone has to be careful with shawcross this season... the last thing we need is for his confidence to go walkabout
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Post by ryanstokeloyal9 on Aug 17, 2008 10:19:40 GMT
it all comes down to the lack of experience with shawcross, yes he's a good CB in the championship, he needs to step up a gear if he is to prove his worth in the premiership.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2008 10:33:23 GMT
Goal 2- our most experienced defender dived in to give a needless free kick away. Griffin should be no where near the starting line up and you can add Mama and Cressy to that. Industry is not enough in this league.
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Post by Akinbadbuy on Aug 17, 2008 10:46:48 GMT
I agree that Griff and Cresswell arent good enough, but I thought mama did ok. His head went down in the second half along with most of the other players. I just hope mama isnt made the scapegoat again like he was so many times last season.
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Post by redrob on Aug 17, 2008 10:55:18 GMT
I did worry about shawcross before the start of he season. I do think that he can make the step up and will become stablished in the prem but he is still very young and inexperianced really does need a been there done that centre half with him. I just hope that his confidence doesnt take a kicking in the mean time
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Post by smokeyjoe on Aug 17, 2008 11:55:07 GMT
I agree that Griff and Cresswell arent good enough, but I thought mama did ok. His head went down in the second half along with most of the other players. I just hope mama isnt made the scapegoat again like he was so many times last season. mama should be the alternative rather than the norm. I believe we should be playing with 2 wingers and 2 strikers, and unfortunatelt mama wont fit in that system. Saying that, he would be ideal coming off the bench if we need to adapt/revert our style of play. Look at our only goal yesterday - the one good cross from the left wing from Dicko, and fuller put it away
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Post by kingdeano on Aug 17, 2008 11:57:50 GMT
i think ryan will become ok in time but hes a young lad with great potential, he needs nurturing now more than ever after yesterdays shocking display, id go with faye and cort
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Post by jarhead on Aug 17, 2008 12:02:00 GMT
He needs a leader around him with top flight experince like a Sami Hyypia,i know we won't get him but you know what i mean.
The 3rd goal you could see he knew he let him go but he will bounce back.
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Post by PMac on Aug 17, 2008 12:09:20 GMT
Agree......... Ryan had a bad game.... Seemed nervous as hell?
surprising considering his England and Man Utd (res) stints... thought he'd be the one to relish the pressure.
He stopped playing altogether at some points and the 2 goals..... I hope Tony shows him the video and "has a chat"...
He'll be back to his best soon I think. (hope)
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Post by tony harrison on Aug 17, 2008 13:25:26 GMT
Davies had his arm over Shawcross shoulder to prevent him from jumping for the ball on one of the goals.
It is up to Shawcross to learn quickly and not get caught out by such things. Get streetwise mate !!!
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Post by mynamewastaken on Aug 17, 2008 14:50:01 GMT
Heh, Bolton was the perfect game for Shawcross really, along with his mistakes.
He learns quickly and he won't be best pleased with how Kevin Davies man handled him or being at fault for their goals.
He's a kid, a good kid, and this season will confirm him as one of the best young defenders in the country.
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Post by DodgyDino on Aug 17, 2008 15:00:57 GMT
Shawcross needs an experienced player along side him and hopefully Faye will sort him out. Theres no doubting hes a better player than Cort
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Post by Olgrligm on Aug 17, 2008 15:36:18 GMT
For the third, responsibility has to be shared between BOTH centre backs. They were both badly in the wrong. Shawcross got lost in the middle and tried to mark Wilkinson's man for the second, confusing them both and giving Davies a free header.
I twasn't just these incidents though. He was all over the place throughout the game, as was Cort, but to a lesser extent. Very worried about both centre backs to be honest.
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Post by Premiership Titanic Captain on Aug 17, 2008 15:51:02 GMT
Ryan needs someone like Faye next to him, to give him confidence and an experienced head to set him straight. We mustn't forget he's only 20. The lad has HUGE potential, could be the biggest player we've had on our books in a long long time, we must support him.
For me, Cort was the bigger liability yesterday. He got found out at this level.
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Post by northstokie on Aug 17, 2008 16:05:12 GMT
As I said on another thread Newcastle fans say that Faye needs a leader alongside him so he is unlikely to tutor our Ryan
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jcscfc
Youth Player
City 'Til I Die
Posts: 443
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Post by jcscfc on Aug 17, 2008 17:50:17 GMT
The whole issue here is that both centre halves were very poor.
Although Cort may have the greater goal threat I feel Shawcross is a better defender. I'm sure TP knows what we need, the problem he has is attracting the players.
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