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Strike
Jul 16, 2008 20:29:33 GMT
Post by stokey-pokey pudding and pie on Jul 16, 2008 20:29:33 GMT
sorry if i gave the impression im public sector worker because im not. i was on the picket this morning to offer my support but i work in the construction industry and am employed by a small contractor. working for a small company does mean you have less collective strength but it also means that youre only fighting against one small businessman/woman not the whole fucking goverment like the people out today.
ive helped organise unions in student bars, bookies, mechanical repair shops, on construction sites, in offices, in call centres, in warehouses, in factories,... i could go on and on. and in my experience workers i small companies have just as much reason to join a union than anybody else.
as for this 'your'e hurting your fellow stokies' bollocks, try and remind yourself why people go on strike! taking strike action isnt fun, it isnt a laugh or something anyone takes lightly. it means losing pay(when none of us can afford to), being labeled greedy by the media and risking disciplinary action later down the road. people go on strike because they are forced to - either they are facing redundencies(mainly nowadays due to the outsourcing of jobs), because of belo inflation pay rises(therefore pay cuts!!!) or in the case of the burslem posties, because they are being bullied, scapegoated and unfairly disciplined by employers.
its not about trying to appeal to the rich, they aint listening, its forcing the goverment(who want to hold on to position) to leave our money alone and take it out of the billions floating around in the financial sector(unpaid taxes, bonuses etc)
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Strike
Jul 16, 2008 20:32:08 GMT
Post by stokey-pokey pudding and pie on Jul 16, 2008 20:32:08 GMT
small companies dont exist without profit, as you say, but that profit is created by the workers not the employer. and i think youll find that its extremely rare that workers at a small companie will strike if itd risk the companies survival - thatd put em all out of work wouldnt it?
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Strike
Jul 16, 2008 21:00:23 GMT
Post by Rebelliousjukebox on Jul 16, 2008 21:00:23 GMT
A lot of angry people on here! I guess your just lucky you work in organisations big enough that you gang up and bully your employers to give you more money. The millions of us who work for small companies will just have to be paid what the market can support. ??? I can understand where you're coming from but, if you work in the public sector it is the Government who determine pay rises; therefore it is national Government with whom the Unions have to deal when it comes to pay. You at least have the advantage that your pay is far less likely to be used as a political football.
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Strike
Jul 16, 2008 21:06:58 GMT
Post by algor on Jul 16, 2008 21:06:58 GMT
small companies dont exist without profit, as you say, but that profit is created by the workers not the employer. and i think youll find that its extremely rare that workers at a small companie will strike if itd risk the companies survival - thatd put em all out of work wouldnt it? You obviously feel the need to fight the good fight and I don't have a problem with that but I really don't understand your worker vs employer confliction in a small company model (of which there are many) Employer's need good workers for their survival and Worker's need small employer's for their survival. I suppose that we are working at different levels in the economy and that what suits you and millions of others won't suit me and millions of other's but I do know that if the public sector acheive 6% then that will put pressure on the private sector to achieve 6% which will then put prices up again which will put the public sector out on strike again ???
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Strike
Jul 16, 2008 21:14:38 GMT
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 16, 2008 21:14:38 GMT
A lot of angry people on here! I guess your just lucky you work in organisations big enough that you gang up and bully your employers to give you more money. The millions of us who work for small companies will just have to be paid what the market can support. ??? Your last sentence hits the nail on the head and supports and ampilfies my point made earlier. Ask yourself why the current "market" is in the state it is.
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Strike
Jul 16, 2008 21:14:58 GMT
Post by stokey-pokey pudding and pie on Jul 16, 2008 21:14:58 GMT
i egt where your'e coming form but the prices dont rise due to pay disputes - but it is true that when the government raise taxes to pay for pay rises, or employers raise commodity costs to cover pay rises that overall we all end up paying more. so it dos look like its a result of pay disputes, but it isnt.
prices rise because employers(and im talking about the bigger ones primarily) would rather raise prices than cut into profit and those oh so important bonses. the government raise taxes because they dont want to have to use the billions of surplus capital, raise corporation taxes, raise taxes for the rich or not the mega rich from avoiing paying tax at alll - - - -therefore as far as im concerned, if prices and taxes raise its fault of greedy shareholders and the governent - not some of the poorest paid workers in the country, fighting for what is rightfully theirs.
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Strike
Jul 16, 2008 21:18:44 GMT
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 16, 2008 21:18:44 GMT
i egt where your'e coming form but the prices dont rise due to pay disputes - but it is true that when the government raise taxes to pay for pay rises, or employers raise commodity costs to cover pay rises that overall we all end up paying more. so it dos look like its a result of pay disputes, but it isnt. prices rise because employers(and im talking about the bigger ones primarily) would rather raise prices than cut into profit and those oh so important bonses. the government raise taxes because they dont want to have to use the billions of surplus capital, raise corporation taxes, raise taxes for the rich or not the mega rich from avoiing paying tax at alll - - - -therefore as far as im concerned, if prices and taxes raise its fault of greedy shareholders and the governent - not some of the poorest paid workers in the country, fighting for what is rightfully theirs. +1 and well put. K for you Stokey!
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Strike
Jul 16, 2008 21:38:47 GMT
Post by algor on Jul 16, 2008 21:38:47 GMT
Well, we will just have to agree to dissagree. Good luck with your campaign.
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Strike
Jul 16, 2008 21:47:21 GMT
Post by wizzardofdribble on Jul 16, 2008 21:47:21 GMT
Some excellent posts..on a great debating thread..without any personal abuse or vindictiveness..which says a great deal about those posting
IMO there are no 'right' or 'wrong' anwsers...of course Public-Sector workers will want parity with other workers..and small-employers who operate in highly competitive-markets, will want to keep costs down...
I have worked in both Public and Private Sectors of The Economy and although the private-sector may pay more, terms and conditions and job-security were much better in the public sector.
As inflation rises...real wages fall..workers strike for higher pay...business costs increase...business raises its prices..inflation rises...real wages fall ...etc etc
And we end up with rising prices and rising unemployment...stagflation...and Labour loses the General Election..and The Conservatives get in..
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Strike
Jul 16, 2008 23:51:41 GMT
Post by Yorkshirepotter on Jul 16, 2008 23:51:41 GMT
p.s ive just read that the bailing out of northern rock will cost each taxpayer £1000 !!!! and they tell us they cant afford us a decent pay rise? wankers And the rest. We got our mortgage from northern cocks and our fixed rate is up in november. Because of the cunts in suits in the city doing their fiddles (will anyone be prosecuted for this by the way ???? not likely) we will struggle to get a mortgage with anybody elce and have been warned by northern cock we could be paying around £1,000 a month, an increase of £300 a month. Add that to petrol/food/nappies etc etc etc being hiked in price, we are fucked! And by the way, i havent had a payrise for 2 years. My girlfriend doesnt get paid great as a nurse (when did they last go on strike?) so personally i think its out of order to hold the rest of us to ransom for a payrise when the whole country is struggleing.
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Strike
Jul 17, 2008 0:08:28 GMT
Post by stokey-pokey pudding and pie on Jul 17, 2008 0:08:28 GMT
its not holding the rest of the counrty to ransom - we're talking about very low paid workers here - not whitehall suits - many on less than 10,000 a year. its the government and financial sector fiddling which is holding us all to ransom - not them out on strike
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Strike
Jul 17, 2008 0:08:31 GMT
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 17, 2008 0:08:31 GMT
p.s ive just read that the bailing out of northern rock will cost each taxpayer £1000 !!!! and they tell us they cant afford us a decent pay rise? wankers And the rest. We got our mortgage from northern cocks and our fixed rate is up in november. Because of the ***** in suits in the city doing their fiddles (will anyone be prosecuted for this by the way ???? not likely) we will struggle to get a mortgage with anybody elce and have been warned by northern cock we could be paying around £1,000 a month, an increase of £300 a month. Add that to petrol/food/nappies etc etc etc being hiked in price, we are fucked! Snap....crap innit??
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Strike
Jul 17, 2008 0:10:47 GMT
Post by mumf14 on Jul 17, 2008 0:10:47 GMT
One single mother interviewed had three jobs ,mainly as a cleaner and dinner lady.
Her take home pay was £817.00 a month.
If private landlords can charge £500 a month in rent....and council tax is another £100 .....and Gas and Electric bills are another £100 a month......
That leaves £117 on food.This is for a hard working British citizen.This is piggin slavery when you see what MP'S are paying themselves.Head masters are earning £50,000 upwards.!
Bloody scandalous....!
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Strike
Jul 17, 2008 8:03:15 GMT
Post by Rebelliousjukebox on Jul 17, 2008 8:03:15 GMT
One single mother interviewed had three jobs ,mainly as a cleaner and dinner lady. Her take home pay was £817.00 a month. If private landlords can charge £500 a month in rent....and council tax is another £100 .....and Gas and Electric bills are another £100 a month...... That leaves £117 on food.This is for a hard working British citizen.This is piggin slavery when you see what MP'S are paying themselves.Head masters are earning £50,000 upwards.! Bloody scandalous....! Mumf, How dare you misuse the word slavery? Don't you know that it can now only be used to refer to Premiership footballers struggling to survive of c£135,000 a week whose nasty nasty clubs won't let them move to another club for a few measly £1,000s a week more?
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Strike
Jul 17, 2008 8:06:11 GMT
Post by edinburghstokie on Jul 17, 2008 8:06:11 GMT
.....and Gas and Electric bills are another £100 I agree with most of your thread, but surely to save gas heating bills (not needed at all in the summer) if it is cold she could put more jumpers on? That's what I do as a student. Had a winters (3 months) gas bill (including a gas cooker and hot water) for £40 last year.
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Strike
Jul 17, 2008 10:21:18 GMT
Post by wizzardofdribble on Jul 17, 2008 10:21:18 GMT
A gas bill of £40 Jukebox?
£40 per-week?
Our last gas bill was £298 and our last electric bill was £215
We're paying £150 per month on gas/electric alone...
Having 4 kids including a 2 year old means constant washing/drying radiators on etc etc its absolutely crippling us..it's the reason the wifes stated going to work again because we can't survive on one wage..
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Strike
Jul 17, 2008 10:23:14 GMT
Post by wizzardofdribble on Jul 17, 2008 10:23:14 GMT
Sorry Jukebox, I got stoke-ed's atavar mixed up with yours
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Strike
Jul 17, 2008 10:33:37 GMT
Post by Rebelliousjukebox on Jul 17, 2008 10:33:37 GMT
Sorry Jukebox, I got stoke-ed's atavar mixed up with yours No problem - stoke-ed did ask me if it was OK to use the same avatar before doing so. This, I think, is the first time that we've posted sequentially, although stoke-ed doesn't have the text that I have below my avatar.
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Strike
Jul 17, 2008 11:27:00 GMT
Post by edinburghstokie on Jul 17, 2008 11:27:00 GMT
Well, I am a stingy student. Did have a sleeping bag on the couch as well if it got too bad...
Sorry about the avatar confusion.
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Strike
Jul 17, 2008 14:50:05 GMT
Post by Rebelliousjukebox on Jul 17, 2008 14:50:05 GMT
Not necessarily - it is UNISON members on Strike, and I expect that many of the wardens are in GMB. ahh bugger The wardens in Newcastle are, as I thought, GMB members, and therefore not on strike - I assume the same in the rest of North Staffs. I'm glad, therefore, that I gave you this advice Miss Piggy 'cos I'm told there's been more tickets issued today & yesterday than usual due to people assuming they wouldn't have to pay.
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Strike
Jul 17, 2008 15:49:13 GMT
Post by Northy on Jul 17, 2008 15:49:13 GMT
Well I have been told I aren't getting a pay rise, my missus has been put on redundancy notice (she is low paid), guess what I think of the strike
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Strike
Jul 17, 2008 15:52:29 GMT
Post by stokecity on Jul 17, 2008 15:52:29 GMT
Instead of having a flat rate pay increase which tends to benefit the better paid, there should be a sliding scale with the less well paid getting a higher percentage. I remember when I first started work my boss telling me that I was getting the highest percentage increase in the firm (20%). I worked out I was getting a £500 pay rise. Couple this with the higher earners who were getting 5% and ending with more than £2,000! Ask me which I'd have preferred. Fortunately, I'm now one of the higher earners. :-)
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