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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 14, 2008 15:30:00 GMT
And was that Thatcher's fault or misguded unions that had already brought the country to its knees? Try and think Macro not micro. Without those workers, you wouldn't be enjoying your current lifestyle. Rights that were hard fought for and won, and subsequently eroded by Thatcher again. Try and think lateral, not literal
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Post by Spiderman on Jul 14, 2008 16:00:48 GMT
I agree with him entirely. What's your problem Ilford? Seconded
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Post by trebor63 on Jul 14, 2008 17:09:19 GMT
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jul 14, 2008 17:58:41 GMT
And was that Thatcher's fault or misguded unions that had already brought the country to its knees? Try and think Macro not micro. Without those workers, you wouldn't be enjoying your current lifestyle. Rights that were hard fought for and won, and subsequently eroded by Thatcher again. Try and think lateral, not literal And what exactly is that lifestyle? Taxed to the hilt directly and indirectly and no change in public services. If anything they're worse. 30% of the country illiterate, over 50% not even reaching GCSE level in maths. The NHS a shambles. The police scared to leave their stations.................This country...... Try and think reality and not fantasy! ;D wizard you seem to have described what's happening now. For North Sea Oil read gold reserves. Never mind some other self serving twat will sort it out! They all want removing but we're all just comfortable enough not to do anything on a mass scale. As long as we've enough for beer, fags and a kebab/indian on the way home! Stokes last return to the top flight coincided with the start of the Thatcher years!
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 14, 2008 21:27:55 GMT
Without those workers, you wouldn't be enjoying your current lifestyle. Rights that were hard fought for and won, and subsequently eroded by Thatcher again. Try and think lateral, not literal And what exactly is that lifestyle? Taxed to the hilt directly and indirectly and no change in public services. If anything they're worse. 30% of the country illiterate, over 50% not even reaching GCSE level in maths. The NHS a shambles. The police scared to leave their stations.................This country...... Try and think reality and not fantasy! ;D wizard you seem to have described what's happening now. For North Sea Oil read gold reserves. Never mind some other self serving twat will sort it out! They all want removing but we're all just comfortable enough not to do anything on a mass scale. As long as we've enough for beer, fags and a kebab/indian on the way home! Stokes last return to the top flight coincided with the start of the Thatcher years! Unlike under the tories of course when everything was rosy. Taxed indirectly, the nation's assets sold off and then sold back to you, the loss of skilled manufacturing industry, the advent of the police state, peaceful protest denied, as close to Nuclear was as we've ever been. 7% of the population owning 84% of the country's wealth and most of that held offshore thanks to the tories providing the tax loopholes...I mean FFS!! Oh yeah, fecking brilliant were the Thatcher years.. And you have the temerity to tell me to get real?
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Post by swampySCFC on Jul 14, 2008 22:13:13 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 14, 2008 22:17:41 GMT
Funnily enough Swampy, a low turnout is usually good news for the Tories.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jul 15, 2008 7:42:45 GMT
Well for some the Thatcher years were brilliant! I take it you didn't tell Sid or are you Sid and were not told?? We'll never agree about the Thatcher years but a lot of people did very well out of those years, normal working class people. ;D The manufacturing industry went down the pan because they couldn't compete thats what happens with capitalism. I'm not saying I agree with it but that's the way it is. As you said it's the 7% that own all the wealth and they don't care where there good are made as long as they make maximum profit! The mistake the government made was not keeping on maintenance staff to keep the mines open for when we need it and that may be soon and to open them up now will cost millions! The publicly owned utilities were like any public sector overstaffed and draining the country of money. Look at the council it's just a job creation scheme for the boys. Having worked in the private and public sector the private sector could run it a lot more efficiently and with perhaps half the staff! The fact is were nothing but pawns in a bourgeoisie plot!
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jul 15, 2008 8:06:17 GMT
Maggie saved this country from financial ruin .....simple. She took on the trades unions and the ailing national industries that were bringing this country to its knees through poor production, outrageous wage demands, strikes and mob rule. Yes we went through a very bad period in her first few years but that was the pay back to get us on our feet again. Labour have the affrontery to say it is their policies that have given us a prospersous start to the new millenium (until now that is) but it was the building blocks put in place by Maggie that laid the foundation for a brighter future. Now labour are fookin it up yet again by tax and spend, encourage lay abouts, skivers and long term uselessness because they are getting a decent wage from brown to do nothing. Try reading Maggies book "The Downing Street Years" and you will have a different view of this remarkable woman. As for the Falklands War, this was sheer naked aggression by a military junta that had to be dealt with. If it wasn't then it would have sent all the wrong messages to countries such as Spain, China, Guatamala etc etc that we were not interested in protecting our outposts and interests around the world.
Maggie will go down as one of our great Priime Ministers were as Brown already is our most unpopular and possibly hated PM.
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Post by swampySCFC on Jul 15, 2008 9:22:16 GMT
Thatcher won 3 elections and had massive support in the electorate.
The current PM has won nout and backed away from a general election because he knew he would lose. Let the people decide.
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Post by prong on Jul 15, 2008 9:30:26 GMT
I can't see anything wrong with what Cameron is saying.
I'm always the first one to moan when I'm skint, but if I went through the receipts I'd be hard pushed to find things I've blown my money on that have been 'essentials'.
I don't think it should be taken as "If you're on the dole and skint - buy fewer scratch cards".
But I do think he is trying to cut off the people who are taking the piss. Good on him I say.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Jul 15, 2008 10:19:38 GMT
And what exactly is that lifestyle? Taxed to the hilt directly and indirectly and no change in public services. If anything they're worse. 30% of the country illiterate, over 50% not even reaching GCSE level in maths. The NHS a shambles. The police scared to leave their stations.................This country...... Try and think reality and not fantasy! ;D wizard you seem to have described what's happening now. For North Sea Oil read gold reserves. Never mind some other self serving twat will sort it out! They all want removing but we're all just comfortable enough not to do anything on a mass scale. As long as we've enough for beer, fags and a kebab/indian on the way home! Stokes last return to the top flight coincided with the start of the Thatcher years! [/quote] In actual fact Daftburger, educational standards have never been higher, that tells you how bad they were BEFORE 1997, not now, ask any Headmaster of any school Have you ever driven along the A34 and seen the massive expansion of our City General Hospital? There has been a huge REAL increase in NHS spending...unlike the Thatcher years when there were REAL spending cuts Gold reserves and North Sea Oil are two completely different things...gold reserves are always there...North Sea Oil was a one-off, financial bonanza..that made the Treasury over 400 BILLION POUNDS richer...ever likely Thatcher was able to reduce direct taxes...but at the same time more than double the rate of VAT from 7 to 15 per-cent Apart from that I agree with you we did get promotion in 79 at Notts County..so it wasn't all bad
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2008 10:36:02 GMT
'educational standards have never been higher' - of course they are. Funny how government statistics seem to suggest the opposite of how industry sees our super-intellectual youth. Mind you, the youth of today are so bright they can now obtain a degree with fewer than 8 hours of lectures a week. Ask any headmaster if being the head of Longton High, Berry Hill or the likes was easier pre-1997? Oh, and the new hospital. Whoopy fuckin doo - have the Americans paid for it? Have the French paid for it? have the Germans paid for it? No, we have - through taxation. Now run along and find out how overdue the project is, how the scope of the new hospital has changed over the years and how much it's cost us against plan.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Jul 15, 2008 10:58:56 GMT
1 I don't need to ask a Headmaster anything as I'm a School Governer
2 Standars are higher now than they've ever been
3 What EXACTLY is your point re; The NHS?
Now you run along Squareball...get your facts right..and come back with a coherent, intelligible response if you're capable of that, which I sincerely doubt...
Go on sonny, run along and put an intelligent argument together..
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2008 11:14:48 GMT
1 I don't need to ask a Headmaster anything as I'm a School Governer
So what?
So tell me why being a Headmaster is better now than it was in 1997 - probably just pay? The majority of high school teachers I speak to all agree that behavioural standards are far worse than before and that being a high school teacher today is as bad as its ever been. They must be lying.
So - no real answer to the first question apart from the fact that you're a governer.
2 Standars are higher now than they've ever been
Copyright - Labour spin HQ, Lowering standards dept. I suppose you can back that statement up with government stats only?
So, again, no answer to that one apart from a repeat of government spin.
3 What EXACTLY is your point re; The NHS?
Spending increases = tax increases = better service? Not really.
I base my view on public services on real improvements and not increases in spending. That's Labour's only answer - spend, spend, spend.
So you didn't understand my point re the NHS so to quote...
'get your facts right..and come back with a coherent, intelligible response if you're capable of that, which I sincerely doubt...'
You need to think a bit more before replying. Let's have a bit more 'wizard' and a lot less of the 'dribble'.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Jul 15, 2008 14:11:51 GMT
Great reply Squareball..
I would have give you karma for that but i've just OldStokie a pint of it...
Good lad
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jul 16, 2008 19:35:15 GMT
Nice new building but still run by a bunch of amatwats in a shambolic way! More money spent, no change in services. Over 30% illiterate and 52% innumerate. Brilliant education system! They've had to introduce something to keep kids in 'school' until they're 18 as the education system can't get them literate or numerate by the time they're 16! Any achievement's they do get are spoon fed so that the league tables look good! Building new schools and hospitals won't change anything without getting the infrastructure and teaching methods sorted. The education system has been failing our kids for too many years! Same old 'New' Labour tax and spend, throw money at the problem with no discernible change! You may quote 'your' school\as a success but the 33% and 52% points to that being the exception rather than the rule. Speak to teachers in colleges and they'll tell you the standard produced by schools. Notts County what a day! No drinkwise police in those days!
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Jul 16, 2008 19:55:01 GMT
Keeping kids at school until they're 18 is more to do with 'massaging' unemployment figures than academic education..but that's been going on for decades... Believe it or not numeracy and literacy levels are higher now than 10 years ago...that tells you how bad things were 10 years ago.. Ask any teacher what their biggest problem is and we will tell you that it's being straitjacketed by the National Curriculum and testing at every level Every teacher I know is sick to the back-teeth of having to constantly test kids..which is taking precedence over learning PURELY because of League Tables And who bought in testing and league tables and a straightjacketing National Curriculum.. Step forward The Conservative Party And as far as 'tax and spend' is concerned, it is a complete myth that Labour tax and spend more than the Tories... The OVERALL tax-burden ( direct and indirect taxation) has been more or less the same under either Administration.. And what did David Cameron say at Prime Ministers Questions yesterday...? That a future Conservative Government could NOT rule out raising taxes... Well at least he's honest.. So we'll just have to agree to disagree Daftburger At least we're at one about Notts County ;D
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Jul 16, 2008 20:03:01 GMT
I think you agree with me on most things it's just that I'm not very literate due to the fact I only went to school for three days a week, during my formative years. I never did get used to five days a week as it made me too tired! ;D
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Jul 16, 2008 21:17:33 GMT
I left school without any qualifications...I could hardly read or write...I went on to get a degree later on in life...which I never thought I'd be capable of.. There's no 'right' or 'wrong' anwsers Burger...just different shades of opinion As long as we agree to disagree..that's all that matters Even though I'm right ;D
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Post by swampySCFC on Jul 17, 2008 15:50:34 GMT
Similar situation to today really. And what does Brown do.... Get us to fucking pay for it
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