|
|
Post by Bojan Mackey on Nov 27, 2024 8:27:30 GMT
Ah this is a tough one. Completely agreed re sentencing being a joke. Dangerous driving and to an extent, drink driving (as idiotic as it is) is one of very few crimes I have a little more tolerance towards lesser sentences. For example someone who goes out and intentionally knocks a woman out (happens a lot... Dare I say it even at Manchester Airport) is a genuinely nasty individual with bad intent and needs to be dealt with severely. I'd hazard a guess over 90% of this messageboard have at some point in their life driven a car over the limit or used their phone while driving. Does that make over 90% of this messageboard bad people? No. I'm sure many on here will still make those mistakes. Such mistakes are highly idiotic and dangerous, but it doesn't make that person a "bad person" or a threat to society. The vast majority of those who have been involved in an incident like the case in question serve their life sentence by default of having to live with the consequences of their actions. I never forget the Plymouth goalkeeper who practically wiped out a family drink driving on the motorway near Keele Services. Giving someone like him a long sentence feels pointless. He was a decent guy by all accounts who made a really bad mistake and will live every day knowing his mistakes destroyed a family. He's absolutely anything but a threat to society. Driving incidents are a really tough one and I'm not going to pretend I have the answers but I think it's probably one of the only devastating "crimes" I have a little bit of sympathy for. We need sentencing to deter the action but once the events happened, I kind of feel like the sentencing is often pointless, if not a little illogical. Correct. |
|
|
|
Post by dirtygary69 on Nov 27, 2024 9:42:52 GMT
Ah this is a tough one. Completely agreed re sentencing being a joke. Dangerous driving and to an extent, drink driving (as idiotic as it is) is one of very few crimes I have a little more tolerance towards lesser sentences. For example someone who goes out and intentionally knocks a woman out (happens a lot... Dare I say it even at Manchester Airport) is a genuinely nasty individual with bad intent and needs to be dealt with severely. I'd hazard a guess over 90% of this messageboard have at some point in their life driven a car over the limit or used their phone while driving. Does that make over 90% of this messageboard bad people? No. I'm sure many on here will still make those mistakes. Such mistakes are highly idiotic and dangerous, but it doesn't make that person a "bad person" or a threat to society. The vast majority of those who have been involved in an incident like the case in question serve their life sentence by default of having to live with the consequences of their actions. I never forget the Plymouth goalkeeper who practically wiped out a family drink driving on the motorway near Keele Services. Giving someone like him a long sentence feels pointless. He was a decent guy by all accounts who made a really bad mistake and will live every day knowing his mistakes destroyed a family. He's absolutely anything but a threat to society. Driving incidents are a really tough one and I'm not going to pretend I have the answers but I think it's probably one of the only devastating "crimes" I have a little bit of sympathy for. We need sentencing to deter the action but once the events happened, I kind of feel like the sentencing is often pointless, if not a little illogical. Aye, sort of what I was alluding to in my post about the 60 year old lady getting locked up. I was surprised by it really. Nobody goes out to injure anybody whilst driving, do they, and I suppose nobody realises how dangerous they are when you think about it. We could injure anyone at any time driving, depending on a number of factors. Even if it’s purely shit driving, you’re not a monster who deserves locking up, but not suggesting getting away scot free is the way either. |
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 27, 2024 14:16:21 GMT
There's been a lot of talk about heavy handed sentences being dished out recently but this one completely takes the biscuit the other way. How can a teenager who has left a mother in her 40's, as a paraplegic, who will require 24hr care, unable to breath or speak for the rest of her life unaided, receive just TWENTY SIX months for his actions? Minimum 10 years for me and banned for life from driving. The thing is the boy didn't go out with any itent to cause harm and I don't think he's a threat to the average citizen either. I understand I may be coming across a bit blunt here but what will he learn in say 7 years in prison? I agree it's a lenient sentence and the injuries are life changing for the victim too. I'm sure the friends and family of the victim feel short changed too. But 1 year, 10 years or 50 years isn't going to change anything for the victim. It's lenient but what is gained from keeping him in much longer for anyone? Violent criminals who are a risk to the public are the ones which need locked away more. Well not locked away, good rehabilitation to help them re enter society and be able to control themselves. So let's say a teenager who is non violent and not a criminal, is chucking fireworks around, he throws one indiscriminately, which unfortunately ends up in a pram lodged in the eye of a baby, who ends up being blinded in one eye, with first degree facial burns, whilst severely disfiguring the child for life, then he ALSO doesn't deserve a very lengthy prison sentence because nothing is gained from keeping him in much longer for anyone? If you do stupid things that can kill or maim people (like driving a car with your knees whilst texting on your phone) and as a direct result of you doing those stupid things, people end up being maimed or killed, then you deserve to go to jail for a very, very long time. Having no regard for the safety of those around you, whilst being a twat, is as bad as somebody deliberately going out to hurt somebody, if the potential consequences of your PERSONAL actions are the same. And I'd argue that the length of the actual sentence be it (as you have suggested) 1, 10 or 50 years IS of actual use to society ... It sends out at a message to other potential dickheads, that if you fuck around, then you find out, so be very careful before you put others at risk by your actions. As it stands, the only message that is being currently sent out to any future idiots, is that, ah don't worry about it pal, you'll only get a couple of years bird, even if you essentially end somebody else's life. |
|
|
|
Post by Gawa on Nov 27, 2024 18:14:06 GMT
Well. "Crimes where the victim has been impacted the most" is an almost funny sentence. I can't think of any crime where the victim has not been impacted the most. Who else would it be? Are there any crimes without any victims? So that sentence is enough for me to count me in, but not to the death penalty, that's too mild. Fraud Tax evasion Non injury traffic offences eg speeding Possession of illegal drugs Theft (first time offences) Criminal damage to businesses It’s about finding alternative punishments eg large fines, bans, rehabilitation etc for non violent offences. Perpetrators can still be hit hard but get the right people inside. Personally I think those committing fraud and tax evasion should be given tough sentences if its a vast sum of money as the whole population is victim to tax evasion. When you here people like Ecclestone can evade tax by the million or that tory chancellor too and there's next to no punishment. A fine equivalent to the average person being fined a 100 quid. Yet steal some baby milk a couple of times and you'll be made a show off. Tax evasion (at big scales) has the most victims as it impacts all of us. |
|
|
|
Post by Bojan Mackey on Nov 27, 2024 20:15:32 GMT
The thing is the boy didn't go out with any itent to cause harm and I don't think he's a threat to the average citizen either. I understand I may be coming across a bit blunt here but what will he learn in say 7 years in prison? I agree it's a lenient sentence and the injuries are life changing for the victim too. I'm sure the friends and family of the victim feel short changed too. But 1 year, 10 years or 50 years isn't going to change anything for the victim. It's lenient but what is gained from keeping him in much longer for anyone? Violent criminals who are a risk to the public are the ones which need locked away more. Well not locked away, good rehabilitation to help them re enter society and be able to control themselves. So let's say a teenager who is non violent and not a criminal, is chucking fireworks around, he throws one indiscriminately, which unfortunately ends up in a pram lodged in the eye of a baby, who ends up being blinded in one eye, with first degree facial burns, whilst severely disfiguring the child for life, then he ALSO doesn't deserve a very lengthy prison sentence because nothing is gained from keeping him in much longer for anyone? If you do stupid things that can kill or maim people (like driving a car with your knees whilst texting on your phone) and as a direct result of you doing those stupid things, people end up being maimed or killed, then you deserve to go to jail for a very, very long time. Having no regard for the safety of those around you, whilst being a twat, is as bad as somebody deliberately going out to hurt somebody, if the potential consequences of your PERSONAL actions are the same. And I'd argue that the length of the actual sentence be it (as you have suggested) 1, 10 or 50 years IS of actual use to society ... It sends out at a message to other potential dickheads, that if you fuck around, then you find out, so be very careful before you put others at risk by your actions. As it stands, the only message that is being currently sent out to any future idiots, is that, ah don't worry about it pal, you'll only get a couple of years bird, even if you essentially end somebody else's life. This is way off the mark for me. I’ll use myself as an example, when I was 18/19 I was a complete wanker behind the wheel of a car, I thought I was a combination of Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton merged together and everyone else was a hopeless tosser, I pulled off some insane manoeuvres which on another day might have had catastrophic consequences. This was stopped when I was pulled over at the age of 19 whilst driving like a dick on the A500 and forced to attend a course for unsafe/aggressive drivers and pay a hefty fine whilst also incurring the wrath of an extremely unhappy traffic copper, this was the kick up the arse I needed in that I need to calm down and I need to do it now otherwise my luck WILL run out sooner rather than later. I’m providing this anecdote because outside of a car I’m a perfectly functioning member of society, I’m an only child in a very tight knit family, I’ve never been in trouble with the law whatsoever other than for the aforementioned driving offence, I am reasonably intelligent and have been in full time work since a month after I left high school so what I’m getting at is if one of my moments of complete bellend driving ended up killing or maiming someone I genuinely would not be able to live with myself, the knowledge that I have destroyed someone’s family as a result of my own stupidity would probably be enough to drive me to suicide to be quite frank with you, I know what you’re going to say in reposte to this, well you should have thought of that before but you’re not telling me an 18 year old who has wanted nothing more than to drive a car since he could walk is thinking that logically at that point in their life, the majority of young drivers will drive like twats it’s been statistically proven time and time again. Throwing me in jail for 10/15 years would solve precisely fuck all, yes I would expect punishment, but a sentence like this I feel would be ample, alls locking someone away for this for years and years does is destroy even more lives than the ones that were initially destroyed in the incident itself, I know for a fact my parents wouldn’t be able to cope with not only the fact I’ve caused the said incident but now they won’t see me again for another decade so the grief is multiplied, you would be locking someone away who is not by nature a malicious or dastardly person and instead would be pandering to the thirst for draconian punishment for certain offences that we seem to have a hard on for in this country. Make dangerous drivers view raw unedited footage of collisions where people have been killed/maimed, make them work unpaid along our traffic police, paramedics and firefighters who respond to these incidents, make them do talks to others of their age demographic about what can happen when it does inevitably go wrong. What you’re effectively advocating here is locking people up with genuine hardened criminals who commit murder, rape, arson and a multitude of other genuinely serious crimes because they’ve made a mistake as a result of their own stupidity and have paid the ultimate price, I’m sorry but that’s just not feasible, the idea of our prisons is meant to be rehabilitation alongside punishment for the crime itself. If the perpetrator shows no remorse, then fine I accept more heavy handed sentencing might be required to hammer the point home, but someone genuine and racked with guilt already losing years of their useful life after making a catastrophic error in judgment is bordering on unstable dictator territory. |
|
|
|
Post by metalhead on Nov 27, 2024 20:28:41 GMT
There's been a lot of talk about heavy handed sentences being dished out recently but this one completely takes the biscuit the other way. How can a teenager who has left a mother in her 40's, as a paraplegic, who will require 24hr care, unable to breath or speak for the rest of her life unaided, receive just TWENTY SIX months for his actions? Minimum 10 years for me and banned for life from driving. This is the kind of stuff that's easily politicised by the far right. We've released some pretty unpleasant characters lately and are dishing out Mickey mouse sentences to people who's actions have real victims and consequences. |
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 27, 2024 22:14:15 GMT
So let's say a teenager who is non violent and not a criminal, is chucking fireworks around, he throws one indiscriminately, which unfortunately ends up in a pram lodged in the eye of a baby, who ends up being blinded in one eye, with first degree facial burns, whilst severely disfiguring the child for life, then he ALSO doesn't deserve a very lengthy prison sentence because nothing is gained from keeping him in much longer for anyone? If you do stupid things that can kill or maim people (like driving a car with your knees whilst texting on your phone) and as a direct result of you doing those stupid things, people end up being maimed or killed, then you deserve to go to jail for a very, very long time. Having no regard for the safety of those around you, whilst being a twat, is as bad as somebody deliberately going out to hurt somebody, if the potential consequences of your PERSONAL actions are the same. And I'd argue that the length of the actual sentence be it (as you have suggested) 1, 10 or 50 years IS of actual use to society ... It sends out at a message to other potential dickheads, that if you fuck around, then you find out, so be very careful before you put others at risk by your actions. As it stands, the only message that is being currently sent out to any future idiots, is that, ah don't worry about it pal, you'll only get a couple of years bird, even if you essentially end somebody else's life. This is way off the mark for me. I’ll use myself as an example, when I was 18/19 I was a complete wanker behind the wheel of a car, I thought I was a combination of Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton merged together and everyone else was a hopeless tosser, I pulled off some insane manoeuvres which on another day might have had catastrophic consequences. This was stopped when I was pulled over at the age of 19 whilst driving like a dick on the A500 and forced to attend a course for unsafe/aggressive drivers and pay a hefty fine whilst also incurring the wrath of an extremely unhappy traffic copper, this was the kick up the arse I needed in that I need to calm down and I need to do it now otherwise my luck WILL run out sooner rather than later. I’m providing this anecdote because outside of a car I’m a perfectly functioning member of society, I’m an only child in a very tight knit family, I’ve never been in trouble with the law whatsoever other than for the aforementioned driving offence, I am reasonably intelligent and have been in full time work since a month after I left high school so what I’m getting at is if one of my moments of complete bellend driving ended up killing or maiming someone I genuinely would not be able to live with myself, the knowledge that I have destroyed someone’s family as a result of my own stupidity would probably be enough to drive me to suicide to be quite frank with you, I know what you’re going to say in reposte to this, well you should have thought of that before but you’re not telling me an 18 year old who has wanted nothing more than to drive a car since he could walk is thinking that logically at that point in their life, the majority of young drivers will drive like twats it’s been statistically proven time and time again. Throwing me in jail for 10/15 years would solve precisely fuck all, yes I would expect punishment, but a sentence like this I feel would be ample, alls locking someone away for this for years and years does is destroy even more lives than the ones that were initially destroyed in the incident itself, I know for a fact my parents wouldn’t be able to cope with not only the fact I’ve caused the said incident but now they won’t see me again for another decade so the grief is multiplied, you would be locking someone away who is not by nature a malicious or dastardly person and instead would be pandering to the thirst for draconian punishment for certain offences that we seem to have a hard on for in this country. Make dangerous drivers view raw unedited footage of collisions where people have been killed/maimed, make them work unpaid along our traffic police, paramedics and firefighters who respond to these incidents, make them do talks to others of their age demographic about what can happen when it does inevitably go wrong. What you’re effectively advocating here is locking people up with genuine hardened criminals who commit murder, rape, arson and a multitude of other genuinely serious crimes because they’ve made a mistake as a result of their own stupidity and have paid the ultimate price, I’m sorry but that’s just not feasible, the idea of our prisons is meant to be rehabilitation alongside punishment for the crime itself. If the perpetrator shows no remorse, then fine I accept more heavy handed sentencing might be required to hammer the point home, but someone genuine and racked with guilt already losing years of their useful life after making a catastrophic error in judgment is bordering on unstable dictator territory. So what's the difference between you acting like an entitled prick and the entitled prick who ends up tossing a firework into a baby's face? Or do you think that they too actually deserve to get off lightly because they were just being a bit immature at the time like yourself? If YOUR actions, which you yourself have admitted, knew at the time might have "catastrophic consequences" HAD actually killed somebody, would you still think the same? Cry me a bloody river, if you would have ultimately wanted to kill yourself. Maybe just maybe, if you had been aware that doing a 10 stretch would have been the result of your immaturity, then maybe both yourself and (most importantly) your victim, would still have lives actually left to lead. |
|
|
|
Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Nov 27, 2024 22:28:15 GMT
So let's say a teenager who is non violent and not a criminal, is chucking fireworks around, he throws one indiscriminately, which unfortunately ends up in a pram lodged in the eye of a baby, who ends up being blinded in one eye, with first degree facial burns, whilst severely disfiguring the child for life, then he ALSO doesn't deserve a very lengthy prison sentence because nothing is gained from keeping him in much longer for anyone? If you do stupid things that can kill or maim people (like driving a car with your knees whilst texting on your phone) and as a direct result of you doing those stupid things, people end up being maimed or killed, then you deserve to go to jail for a very, very long time. Having no regard for the safety of those around you, whilst being a twat, is as bad as somebody deliberately going out to hurt somebody, if the potential consequences of your PERSONAL actions are the same. And I'd argue that the length of the actual sentence be it (as you have suggested) 1, 10 or 50 years IS of actual use to society ... It sends out at a message to other potential dickheads, that if you fuck around, then you find out, so be very careful before you put others at risk by your actions. As it stands, the only message that is being currently sent out to any future idiots, is that, ah don't worry about it pal, you'll only get a couple of years bird, even if you essentially end somebody else's life. This is way off the mark for me. I’ll use myself as an example, when I was 18/19 I was a complete wanker behind the wheel of a car, I thought I was a combination of Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton merged together and everyone else was a hopeless tosser, I pulled off some insane manoeuvres which on another day might have had catastrophic consequences. This was stopped when I was pulled over at the age of 19 whilst driving like a dick on the A500 and forced to attend a course for unsafe/aggressive drivers and pay a hefty fine whilst also incurring the wrath of an extremely unhappy traffic copper, this was the kick up the arse I needed in that I need to calm down and I need to do it now otherwise my luck WILL run out sooner rather than later. I’m providing this anecdote because outside of a car I’m a perfectly functioning member of society, I’m an only child in a very tight knit family, I’ve never been in trouble with the law whatsoever other than for the aforementioned driving offence, I am reasonably intelligent and have been in full time work since a month after I left high school so what I’m getting at is if one of my moments of complete bellend driving ended up killing or maiming someone I genuinely would not be able to live with myself, the knowledge that I have destroyed someone’s family as a result of my own stupidity would probably be enough to drive me to suicide to be quite frank with you, I know what you’re going to say in reposte to this, well you should have thought of that before but you’re not telling me an 18 year old who has wanted nothing more than to drive a car since he could walk is thinking that logically at that point in their life, the majority of young drivers will drive like twats it’s been statistically proven time and time again. Throwing me in jail for 10/15 years would solve precisely fuck all, yes I would expect punishment, but a sentence like this I feel would be ample, alls locking someone away for this for years and years does is destroy even more lives than the ones that were initially destroyed in the incident itself, I know for a fact my parents wouldn’t be able to cope with not only the fact I’ve caused the said incident but now they won’t see me again for another decade so the grief is multiplied, you would be locking someone away who is not by nature a malicious or dastardly person and instead would be pandering to the thirst for draconian punishment for certain offences that we seem to have a hard on for in this country. Make dangerous drivers view raw unedited footage of collisions where people have been killed/maimed, make them work unpaid along our traffic police, paramedics and firefighters who respond to these incidents, make them do talks to others of their age demographic about what can happen when it does inevitably go wrong. What you’re effectively advocating here is locking people up with genuine hardened criminals who commit murder, rape, arson and a multitude of other genuinely serious crimes because they’ve made a mistake as a result of their own stupidity and have paid the ultimate price, I’m sorry but that’s just not feasible, the idea of our prisons is meant to be rehabilitation alongside punishment for the crime itself. If the perpetrator shows no remorse, then fine I accept more heavy handed sentencing might be required to hammer the point home, but someone genuine and racked with guilt already losing years of their useful life after making a catastrophic error in judgment is bordering on unstable dictator territory. That’s a really good argument and fair play to you for learning your lesson the easy way without anyone getting hurt. My issue with the guilt felt is that only you would know how bad / guilty you felt no one else would. I think it’s important that we should be victim lead and if a family loses a loved one due to the actions of someone’s recklessness behind the wheel it’s going to be heartbreaking for them if they find the person responsible for there loss and lifetime grief is going to prison for 6 months or an even lesser sentence. That just doesn’t sit right with me. For the rest of their life they’d be thinking that’s all their loved ones life is worth. |
|
|
|
Post by musik on Nov 27, 2024 22:33:43 GMT
Let the victim/s decide.
That's why we have laws in the first place ... or at least should be.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bojan Mackey on Nov 27, 2024 23:16:01 GMT
This is way off the mark for me. I’ll use myself as an example, when I was 18/19 I was a complete wanker behind the wheel of a car, I thought I was a combination of Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton merged together and everyone else was a hopeless tosser, I pulled off some insane manoeuvres which on another day might have had catastrophic consequences. This was stopped when I was pulled over at the age of 19 whilst driving like a dick on the A500 and forced to attend a course for unsafe/aggressive drivers and pay a hefty fine whilst also incurring the wrath of an extremely unhappy traffic copper, this was the kick up the arse I needed in that I need to calm down and I need to do it now otherwise my luck WILL run out sooner rather than later. I’m providing this anecdote because outside of a car I’m a perfectly functioning member of society, I’m an only child in a very tight knit family, I’ve never been in trouble with the law whatsoever other than for the aforementioned driving offence, I am reasonably intelligent and have been in full time work since a month after I left high school so what I’m getting at is if one of my moments of complete bellend driving ended up killing or maiming someone I genuinely would not be able to live with myself, the knowledge that I have destroyed someone’s family as a result of my own stupidity would probably be enough to drive me to suicide to be quite frank with you, I know what you’re going to say in reposte to this, well you should have thought of that before but you’re not telling me an 18 year old who has wanted nothing more than to drive a car since he could walk is thinking that logically at that point in their life, the majority of young drivers will drive like twats it’s been statistically proven time and time again. Throwing me in jail for 10/15 years would solve precisely fuck all, yes I would expect punishment, but a sentence like this I feel would be ample, alls locking someone away for this for years and years does is destroy even more lives than the ones that were initially destroyed in the incident itself, I know for a fact my parents wouldn’t be able to cope with not only the fact I’ve caused the said incident but now they won’t see me again for another decade so the grief is multiplied, you would be locking someone away who is not by nature a malicious or dastardly person and instead would be pandering to the thirst for draconian punishment for certain offences that we seem to have a hard on for in this country. Make dangerous drivers view raw unedited footage of collisions where people have been killed/maimed, make them work unpaid along our traffic police, paramedics and firefighters who respond to these incidents, make them do talks to others of their age demographic about what can happen when it does inevitably go wrong. What you’re effectively advocating here is locking people up with genuine hardened criminals who commit murder, rape, arson and a multitude of other genuinely serious crimes because they’ve made a mistake as a result of their own stupidity and have paid the ultimate price, I’m sorry but that’s just not feasible, the idea of our prisons is meant to be rehabilitation alongside punishment for the crime itself. If the perpetrator shows no remorse, then fine I accept more heavy handed sentencing might be required to hammer the point home, but someone genuine and racked with guilt already losing years of their useful life after making a catastrophic error in judgment is bordering on unstable dictator territory. So what's the difference between you acting like an entitled prick and the entitled prick who ends up tossing a firework into a baby's face? Or do you think that they too actually deserve to get off lightly because they were just being a bit immature at the time like yourself? If YOUR actions, which you yourself have admitted, knew at the time might have "catastrophic consequences" HAD actually killed somebody, would you still think the same? Cry me a bloody river, if you would have ultimately wanted to kill yourself. Maybe just maybe, if you had been aware that doing a 10 stretch would have been the result of your immaturity, then maybe both yourself and (most importantly) your victim, would still have lives actually left to lead. I’m saying context is key here. Human beings are inherently flawed, none of us are perfect, we’ve all made errors in judgement, we’ve all been young and idiotic to some degree. You’re saying that people who lead law abiding lives and make a catastrophic mistake should be locked away for years, and who is that helping exactly? Surely the more sensible option would be a sentence similar to the one we’ve seen here and then as I’ve mentioned a degree of unpaid work alongside our emergency services or be forced to give talks on the matter to peer groups etc. Surely that is the better outcome, making the best out of what is a tragic situation? It may even end up that said individual forges a career in this path and does their utmost to try and return something to the world. I saw a video on YouTube a while ago about a chap who killed his best friend in a drink driving incident, he ended up getting and serving a seven year sentence and to this day the guilt in his eyes is palpable, he is living with that every second of every day, what’s the point of locking that person up for 10/15 years when they’ve got their own self inflicted life sentence? |
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 28, 2024 0:10:19 GMT
So what's the difference between you acting like an entitled prick and the entitled prick who ends up tossing a firework into a baby's face? Or do you think that they too actually deserve to get off lightly because they were just being a bit immature at the time like yourself? If YOUR actions, which you yourself have admitted, knew at the time might have "catastrophic consequences" HAD actually killed somebody, would you still think the same? Cry me a bloody river, if you would have ultimately wanted to kill yourself. Maybe just maybe, if you had been aware that doing a 10 stretch would have been the result of your immaturity, then maybe both yourself and (most importantly) your victim, would still have lives actually left to lead. I’m saying context is key here. Human beings are inherently flawed, none of us are perfect, we’ve all made errors in judgement, we’ve all been young and idiotic to some degree. You’re saying that people who lead law abiding lives and make a catastrophic mistake should be locked away for years, and who is that helping exactly? Surely the more sensible option would be a sentence similar to the one we’ve seen here and then as I’ve mentioned a degree of unpaid work alongside our emergency services or be forced to give talks on the matter to peer groups etc. Surely that is the better outcome, making the best out of what is a tragic situation? It may even end up that said individual forges a career in this path and does their utmost to try and return something to the world. I saw a video on YouTube a while ago about a chap who killed his best friend in a drink driving incident, he ended up getting and serving a seven year sentence and to this day the guilt in his eyes is palpable, he is living with that every second of every day, what’s the point of locking that person up for 10/15 years when they’ve got their own self inflicted life sentence? I remember seeing the clips of Luke McCormick having to walk out to chants of "murderer" every game for years. A nice bloke by all accounts but just made a bad decision, similar to bad decisions many of us have made. I read he was at a wedding having been twice over the limit, jet lagged and had just found out his partner was cheating on him while he was away, hence rushed back home. The footage of him breaking down at the police station when he finds out he's killed two children is truly heartbreaking. A tragic situation all round and a horrible mistake. It was such a sad story and you could understand if the remaining members of the family would want him behind bars forever - I doubt they do though. I can't imagine what pain the family must still be in and the sleepless, traumatic nights McCormick himself must have. He did under 5 years and was one of the Championships best up coming keepers at the time. It's actually one of the saddest stories I've heard. I strongly suspect he has his life sentence and what he did does not make him a bad person. I don't know what the answer is for a crime like death by dangerous/drink driving. It's definitely one of the only offenses I think sentences should not be significant. Obviously very easy for me to sit here and say that having not lost loved ones in a car accident due to someone else being reckless. Interestingly I just read the family of the children had said they feel McCormick has served his time which I guess says a lot about the family. |
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 28, 2024 8:14:06 GMT
So what's the difference between you acting like an entitled prick and the entitled prick who ends up tossing a firework into a baby's face? Or do you think that they too actually deserve to get off lightly because they were just being a bit immature at the time like yourself? If YOUR actions, which you yourself have admitted, knew at the time might have "catastrophic consequences" HAD actually killed somebody, would you still think the same? Cry me a bloody river, if you would have ultimately wanted to kill yourself. Maybe just maybe, if you had been aware that doing a 10 stretch would have been the result of your immaturity, then maybe both yourself and (most importantly) your victim, would still have lives actually left to lead. I’m saying context is key here. Human beings are inherently flawed, none of us are perfect, we’ve all made errors in judgement, we’ve all been young and idiotic to some degree. You’re saying that people who lead law abiding lives and make a catastrophic mistake should be locked away for years, and who is that helping exactly? Surely the more sensible option would be a sentence similar to the one we’ve seen here and then as I’ve mentioned a degree of unpaid work alongside our emergency services or be forced to give talks on the matter to peer groups etc. Surely that is the better outcome, making the best out of what is a tragic situation? It may even end up that said individual forges a career in this path and does their utmost to try and return something to the world. I saw a video on YouTube a while ago about a chap who killed his best friend in a drink driving incident, he ended up getting and serving a seven year sentence and to this day the guilt in his eyes is palpable, he is living with that every second of every day, what’s the point of locking that person up for 10/15 years when they’ve got their own self inflicted life sentence? I agree, context very much IS key here. Let's have a look at the context shall we? The guy drove his car with his knees on several occasions while videoing it and then forwarded the video on to his mates, with no hands on the steering wheel. He KNEW the risks he was posing to other drivers and indeed the actual REASON he was showing off to his mates was because he knew that the actions he was taking were extremely dangerous, he was looking for clout. And as a result of what he was doing, a fit and healthy mother is now a paraplegic. I can't believe how easily you can simply dismiss that as an 'error in judgment'. What he did wasn't a mistake, it was entitled behaviour of the highest order, he was prepared to risk the lives of other random people, in the hope that in return, he would get some likes off his mates. You said yourself that you fucked around in a car when you were younger and you knew that those actions could have had 'catastrophic consequences' but that didn't mean that you were a dastardly person. Well I'm sorry but it DID make you a dastardly person and if you had killed my wife or my children then it would have made you a very, very dastardly person. The fact that you can't see this, even now, is probably why we're continuing this conversation. Anyhow, you still haven't explained what the difference is between what the lad driving the car with his knees was doing and a teenager showing off to his mates by chucking fireworks around, who due to an 'error in judgment' sees one of those fireworks go astray and land on the face of a baby being pushed in a pram? |
|
|
|
Post by dirtygary69 on Nov 28, 2024 10:23:53 GMT
I’m saying context is key here. Human beings are inherently flawed, none of us are perfect, we’ve all made errors in judgement, we’ve all been young and idiotic to some degree. You’re saying that people who lead law abiding lives and make a catastrophic mistake should be locked away for years, and who is that helping exactly? Surely the more sensible option would be a sentence similar to the one we’ve seen here and then as I’ve mentioned a degree of unpaid work alongside our emergency services or be forced to give talks on the matter to peer groups etc. Surely that is the better outcome, making the best out of what is a tragic situation? It may even end up that said individual forges a career in this path and does their utmost to try and return something to the world. I saw a video on YouTube a while ago about a chap who killed his best friend in a drink driving incident, he ended up getting and serving a seven year sentence and to this day the guilt in his eyes is palpable, he is living with that every second of every day, what’s the point of locking that person up for 10/15 years when they’ve got their own self inflicted life sentence? I agree, context very much IS key here. Let's have a look at the context shall we? The guy drove his car with his knees on several occasions while videoing it and then forwarding the video on to his mates, with no hands on the steering wheel. He KNEW the risks he was posing to other drivers and indeed the actual REASON he was showing off to his mates was because he knew that the actions he was taking were extremely dangerous, he was looking for clout. And as a result of what he was doing, a fit and healthy mother is now a paraplegic. I can't believe how easily you can simply dismiss that as an 'error in judgment'. What he did wasn't a mistake, it was entitled behaviour of the highest order, he was prepared to risk the lives of other random people, in the hope that in return, he would get some likes off his mates. You said yourself that you fucked around in a car when you were younger and you knew that those actions could have had 'catastrophic consequences' but that didn't mean that you were a dastardly person. Well I'm sorry but it DID make you a dastardly person and if you had killed my wife or my children then it would have made you a very, very dastardly person. The fact that you can't see this, even now, is probably why we're continuing this conversation. Anyhow, you still haven't explained what the difference is between what the lad driving the car with his knees was doing and a teenager showing off to his mates by chucking fireworks around, who due to an 'error in judgment' sees one of those fireworks go astray and land on the face of a baby being pushed in a pram? You're going off on a bit of a tangent with the firework thing. From what I can see, the argument is that a very high percentage of "normal" people drive cars, who could easily make bad decisions without being malicious. Most people drive cars, most people do not throw fireworks. |
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 28, 2024 13:05:33 GMT
I agree, context very much IS key here. Let's have a look at the context shall we? The guy drove his car with his knees on several occasions while videoing it and then forwarding the video on to his mates, with no hands on the steering wheel. He KNEW the risks he was posing to other drivers and indeed the actual REASON he was showing off to his mates was because he knew that the actions he was taking were extremely dangerous, he was looking for clout. And as a result of what he was doing, a fit and healthy mother is now a paraplegic. I can't believe how easily you can simply dismiss that as an 'error in judgment'. What he did wasn't a mistake, it was entitled behaviour of the highest order, he was prepared to risk the lives of other random people, in the hope that in return, he would get some likes off his mates. You said yourself that you fucked around in a car when you were younger and you knew that those actions could have had 'catastrophic consequences' but that didn't mean that you were a dastardly person. Well I'm sorry but it DID make you a dastardly person and if you had killed my wife or my children then it would have made you a very, very dastardly person. The fact that you can't see this, even now, is probably why we're continuing this conversation. Anyhow, you still haven't explained what the difference is between what the lad driving the car with his knees was doing and a teenager showing off to his mates by chucking fireworks around, who due to an 'error in judgment' sees one of those fireworks go astray and land on the face of a baby being pushed in a pram? You're going off on a bit of a tangent with the firework thing. From what I can see, the argument is that a very high percentage of "normal" people drive cars, who could easily make bad decisions without being malicious. Most people drive cars, most people do not throw fireworks. No, you're not comparing like with like there. Most people who buy fireworks don't chuck them around to impress their mates and most people who drive cars, don't drive them with their knees to impress their mates either. Do you see the correlation, it's not going off at a tangent at all? Doing either of these things isn't what you are calling simply a bad 'decision'. Just because you're behind the wheel of a car doesn't then (in this instance) somehow make your actions any less abhorrent. |
|
|
|
Post by rickyfullerbeer on Nov 28, 2024 16:32:30 GMT
The justice system in this country isn’t fit for purpose. The courts, prisons and the laws themselves.
It’s become a circus for defence lawyers trying to get guilty people off through bogus claims.
That tramp who shot the nine-year-old girl in Liverpool was appealing some utter nonsense about the jury the other week after initially appealing the sentence. All a complete and utter circus.
Police have no authority these days. Too many people aren’t afraid to commit crime.
|
|
