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Post by Ariel Manto on Nov 13, 2024 11:47:57 GMT
Yes, it's a tricky one. The report concluded that Welby could have reported the abuse to the police when he was informed in 2013. Madly (it semes to me, anyway), in the UK there are currently no criminal sanctions for individuals who fail to report a child at risk. So, while Welby's failure to report the abuse is obviously a serious oversight, it is not classified as a criminal offence under current UK law. So where do the lines of prosecution for withholding information/evidence lie - does it only apply to fraud and murder investigations? Individuals in regulated activities, such as teachers or healthcare professionals, are legally required to report or deliberately conceal information that they know a child is being sexually abused. People in those regulated industries can face criminal prosecution if they fail to report such abuse. |
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Post by phileetin on Nov 13, 2024 11:54:40 GMT
you can't deny that a lot of these sexual misconduct accusations that didn't proceed to prosecution happened under starmer tenure as DPP . besides the rochdale grooming stuff and savile the met was also aware of the Fayed accusations. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgj4521d4q6o |
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Post by str8outtahampton on Nov 13, 2024 12:09:24 GMT
The real question is: who will succeed him?
My money's on @rt Hon Reverend Luvpump.
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Post by Ariel Manto on Nov 13, 2024 12:14:51 GMT
As usual Phil you show your ignorance because of your bias you haven't thought this through. Smyth began his abuse in 1981 and left UK in 1984 leaving a trail of Victims behind. The Makin report states that some Clergy were aware of Smyths abuse but did nothing to stop or report it, Welby wasn't one of them. The Church and Welby could no longer deny it was unaware of Smyths abuse when a victim came forward in 2013. The Makin Report says of this that "Welby could and should have formally reported the abuse to authorities in 2013 when he first became aware, but that he and other senior figures at the church "showed a distinct lack of curiosity" and minimised the matter" It would be rather difficult for the Police and/or CPS to investigate something they were unaware of. This is precisely the reason Welby had to resign because he covered it up. The UK Police began an investigation into Smyth in 2017 based on a Channel 4 Investigation and the South African Police were also investigating Smyth where he was living at the time of his death. Any organisation that colludes in the abuse and even death of children is a vile organisation run generally by corrupt old men. when Welby was made aware in 2013 his excuse for not doing anything was that he thought the authorities were pursuing the matter which i assume meant "the police " .
if police delayed their formal investigation until 2017 following the channel 4 programme it doesn't mean that the "authorities" that Welby refers to isn't the police or , if it isn't , what other authorities are there ?
The Makin review established that Welby believed a police referral had been made in 2013, but that in fact that was not the case. Makin's Review concluded that Welby held a personal and moral responsibility to pursue the matter further, but that between 2013 and the allegations becoming public in 2017, that did not happen. Initially, five police forces in the UK were informally made aware of allegations against John Smyth’s between 2014 and 2016 - Hampshire Police, Thames Valley Police, Metropolitan Police, Avon and Somerset Police, and Sussex Police - but the Church of England acknowledges that the allegations weren't properly or formerly reported to the Police. The initial response from the Church of England and other authorities was inadequate, and there was a significant delay in formally reporting the child sexual abuse to the police. Additionally, the complexity and historical nature of the allegations contributed to the delay in prosecution. After Channel 4's original investigation, Hampshire police reopened their inquiries in 2018 as that was when they found out how significant the evidence actually was through the documentary - there was no way the Police could reasonably have either 1. known about it as it wasn't formerly reported to them, and 2. have been able to evidence any of it without the insider documentary from Channel 4. Makin concluded specifically that Welby could and should have reported the case to the Police in 2013 and should not have merely "believed" that a referral had been made - he should have actively asked for evidence of it being reported as a safeguarding issue, or report it himself. Welby himself has said " The Makin Review has exposed the long-maintained conspiracy of silence about the heinous abuses of John Smyth. When I was informed in 2013 and told that police had been notified, I believed wrongly that an appropriate resolution would follow. It is very clear that I must take personal and institutional responsibility for the long and retraumatising period between 2013 and 2024." There's a horrific and appalling irony in Welby hiding behind the idea that he believed something to have happened (reporting the abuse) rather than establishing facts around whether it was reported or not. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Nov 13, 2024 12:16:20 GMT
The real question is: who will succeed him? My money's on @rt Hon Reverend Luvpump. He's busy in St Trinians rodgering the choir completing his sabbatical leave. |
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Post by wannabee on Nov 13, 2024 12:21:19 GMT
As usual Phil you show your ignorance because of your bias you haven't thought this through. Smyth began his abuse in 1981 and left UK in 1984 leaving a trail of Victims behind. The Makin report states that some Clergy were aware of Smyths abuse but did nothing to stop or report it, Welby wasn't one of them. The Church and Welby could no longer deny it was unaware of Smyths abuse when a victim came forward in 2013. The Makin Report says of this that "Welby could and should have formally reported the abuse to authorities in 2013 when he first became aware, but that he and other senior figures at the church "showed a distinct lack of curiosity" and minimised the matter" It would be rather difficult for the Police and/or CPS to investigate something they were unaware of. This is precisely the reason Welby had to resign because he covered it up. The UK Police began an investigation into Smyth in 2017 based on a Channel 4 Investigation and the South African Police were also investigating Smyth where he was living at the time of his death. Any organisation that colludes in the abuse and even death of children is a vile organisation run generally by corrupt old men. when Welby was made aware in 2013 his excuse for not doing anything was that he thought the authorities were pursuing the matter which i assume meant "the police " .
if police delayed their formal investigation until 2017 following the channel 4 programme it doesn't mean that the "authorities" that Welby refers to isn't the police or , if it isn't , what other authorities are there ?
Why compound your ill-informed opinion The Church Authorities who became aware of the Victims complaint in 2013 contented themselves that someone other than themselves would inform the Police, NOBODY DID. They hid behind the plausible deniability of "I thought you were going to tell the Police, no I thought you were going to tell the Police" and so on. Welby as the senior now has no get out clause, because he neither informed nor asked anyone else to do so. That is why Makin's report says they each showed "a distinct lack of curiosity" |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Nov 13, 2024 15:28:52 GMT
phileetin  I should add that in 2013, the responsibility for reporting child abuse within the Church of England would have fallen to the local diocesan bishop and the Archbishop of Canterbury (Welby) as he was directly informed about the abuse allegations. The National Safeguarding Team would also have been involved in managing the case and ensuring that the appropriate authorities, including the Police, were notified. The proper authorities to be notified are: Diocesan Safeguarding Adviser: Each diocese has a safeguarding adviser responsible for managing safeguarding concerns and ensuring they are reported to the appropriate authorities. National Safeguarding Team: This team handles safeguarding cases involving senior clergy, such as bishops and deans. Children's Social Care Team: Reports of children and young people at risk of abuse should be made to the children's social care team at the local council. Local Police: In cases of immediate danger or urgent situations, the police should be contacted directly The National Safeguarding Team, local diocesan bishop, and the Archbishop of Canterbury accept that none of them properly informed the Police, or any of the other appropriate authorities outside the church, despite knowing what went on in 2013.
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Post by metalhead on Nov 13, 2024 20:14:36 GMT
He should be facing a trial for with holding evidence and covering up serious crimes Yes, it's a tricky one. The report concluded that Welby could have reported the abuse to the police when he was informed in 2013. Madly (it semes to me, anyway), in the UK there are currently no criminal sanctions for individuals who fail to report a child at risk. So, while Welby's failure to report the abuse is obviously a serious oversight, it is not classified as a criminal offence under current UK law. But he'll always be a paedophile protector in the eyes of the public. That's now written in the history books. A bit like that top copper who was dishonest about Hillsborough, Paula Vennells and her taste for punishing some of the weakest in society or Prince Andrew and his fondness for barely legal sexual conquests, he will never be able to shake this off till the day he dies and in death it'll still haunt his memory. Like a fucking ball and chain, attached to his leg, he will have to carry the immense guilt and embarrassment. His legacy isn't worth a penny anymore. The pen is mightier than the Sword. Welby will always be remembered for what he is. A liar and a paedophile protector. All in the name of God. For me, that's a form of justice.... Just wish it was more. |
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