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Post by wannabee on Oct 24, 2024 10:02:56 GMT
I’m making the assertion that the Court throwing out a murder trial case against Sgt Blake in 3 hours demonstrates there was insufficient evidence to prosecute Sgt Blake. My bad, as old habits die hard - I used to work there when it was still called the IPCC. The IPCC was not disbanded, it was reformed and rebranded from the IPCC to the IOPC. Same staff, same oversight function, slightly amended jurisdiction. It looks into cases where individuals die or sustain serious injuries following police contact. The IOPC can recommend action be taken against a serving police officer (for eg, serious or gross misconduct charges, it can recommend action be taken if it feels criminality has occurred). Moreover, the IOPC still has to decide whether to recommend action be taken against Sgt Blake outside of the recent murder trial. The IOPC obviously would not decide that with the CPS deciding to prosecute for murder. Hence the furore over Sgt Blake still potentially facing action from the IOPC. Interesting comments do you anticipate gross misconduct proceedings in this case ? From my experience I would be very surprised if they decided not to hold a gross misconduct hearing in the coming months. I think it is a certainty a hearing would have to take place, a lot of the groundwork has already been done by IOPC. I'm mindful however of a comment you made and apologise if I paraphrase from memory but I believe you cast doubt on whether Blake would ever return to duty certainly within the firearms section. In some respects s Gross Misconduct hearing smacks of double jeopardy but as the evidence at trial began to unfold it became obvious to me he had been overcharged by CPS, whether he was guilty of poor judgement is quite another thing and could only be decided by people familiar with Police Firearms procedures. Blake is still a young man with I believe a young family would he want to put himself and his family and particularly his mental health through another hearing, I'm not too sure. |
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ian57
Youth Player
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Post by ian57 on Oct 24, 2024 10:14:49 GMT
Kaba may be brown bread but at least we can seek some form of comfort in the fact that while Peter lynch died in prison that paragon of virtue Ricky jones has been released on bail.
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Post by franklin on Oct 24, 2024 10:57:41 GMT
Interesting comments do you anticipate gross misconduct proceedings in this case ? From my experience I would be very surprised if they decided not to hold a gross misconduct hearing in the coming months. I think it is a certainty a hearing would have to take place, a lot of the groundwork has already been done by IOPC. I'm mindful however of a comment you made and apologise if I paraphrase from memory but I believe you cast doubt on whether Blake would ever return to duty certainly within the firearms section. In some respects s Gross Misconduct hearing smacks of double jeopardy but as the evidence at trial began to unfold it became obvious to me he had been overcharged by CPS, whether he was guilty of poor judgement is quite another thing and could only be decided by people familiar with Police Firearms procedures. Blake is still a young man with I believe a young family would he want to put himself and his family and particularly his mental health through another hearing, I'm not too sure. I think once that trust has gone then that's that imho. I don't think he'll ever carry a firearm again and I doubt he'll return to front line policing either. My opinion is that he will take retirement on grounds of ill heath and try and live his life as best he can. I just know the effects something like this had on officers in relation to discharging their weapon and the stress and trauma of the subsequent investigation. He's had it as you say potentially twice once fearing prison and losing everything and now potentially losing everything again he'll be devastated and mentally exhausted a tough come back for anyone. Edit: I'd add for gross misconduct the burden of proof is lower so on the ballance of probability rather than beyond reasonable doubt. |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 24, 2024 11:19:59 GMT
I’m making the assertion that the Court throwing out a murder trial case against Sgt Blake in 3 hours demonstrates there was insufficient evidence to prosecute Sgt Blake. My bad, as old habits die hard - I used to work there when it was still called the IPCC. The IPCC was not disbanded, it was reformed and rebranded from the IPCC to the IOPC. Same staff, same oversight function, slightly amended jurisdiction. It looks into cases where individuals die or sustain serious injuries following police contact. The IOPC can recommend action be taken against a serving police officer (for eg, serious or gross misconduct charges, it can recommend action be taken if it feels criminality has occurred). Moreover, the IOPC still has to decide whether to recommend action be taken against Sgt Blake outside of the recent murder trial. The IOPC obviously would not decide that with the CPS deciding to prosecute for murder. Hence the furore over Sgt Blake still potentially facing action from the IOPC. Interesting comments do you anticipate gross misconduct proceedings in this case ? From my experience I would be very surprised if they decided not to hold a gross misconduct hearing in the coming months. I doubt it. The IOPC’s role is to independently investigate the circumstances surrounding a fatal police shooting, including the decision to use lethal force. Under the law, firearms officers can use lethal force, however it must be reasonable in the circumstances the officer honestly believed them to be. The decisions to criminally investigate Sergeant Blake, and for the IOPC to refer the case to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), followed careful consideration of a significant amount of evidence gathered during the IOPC’s independent investigation and by applying the relevant legal tests which govern its work. Following the CPS decision to charge Martyn Blake with murder, the matter has now been heard in open court and the officer has accounted for his actions before a jury, so I’m not sure the IOPC will want to do anything now. It looks like the IOPC perhaps jumped the gun when it decided to refer to the CPS, though, as it should have decided upon whether any misconduct occurred first before it passed the buck to the CPS. |
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Post by franklin on Oct 24, 2024 11:27:07 GMT
Interesting comments do you anticipate gross misconduct proceedings in this case ? From my experience I would be very surprised if they decided not to hold a gross misconduct hearing in the coming months. I doubt it. The IOPC’s role is to independently investigate the circumstances surrounding a fatal police shooting, including the decision to use lethal force. Under the law, firearms officers can use lethal force, however it must be reasonable in the circumstances the officer honestly believed them to be. The decisions to criminally investigate Sergeant Blake, and for the IOPC to refer the case to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), followed careful consideration of a significant amount of evidence gathered during the IOPC’s independent investigation and by applying the relevant legal tests which govern its work. Following the CPS decision to charge Martyn Blake with murder, the matter has now been heard in open court and the officer has accounted for his actions before a jury, so I’m not sure the IOPC will want to do anything now. It looks like the IOPC perhaps jumped the gun when it decided to refer to the CPS, though, as it should have decided upon whether any misconduct occurred first before it passed the buck to the CPS. Well that would be good news if that were the case but I've the same nagging doubt that pressure will be forthcoming again and being seen to do the "right" thing trumps actually doing the right thing. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Oct 24, 2024 21:42:58 GMT
Is this lady off her rocker. Another one who’s hatred for police totally blinkers what’s right and wrong.
Unbelievable that she’s an MP.
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Post by franklin on Oct 25, 2024 1:31:13 GMT
Is this lady off her rocker. Another one who’s hatred for police totally blinkers what’s right and wrong. Unbelievable that she’s an MP. Imho she lying or ignorant or both, no way has there been over 1900 deaths in police custody since 1990. Deaths in police custody and following contact maybe in but custody no way. Someone who's stopped and searched then killed in a unrelated matter say a car accident or even natural causes within 24hrs is classed as a death following police contact. So she's full of shit. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 25, 2024 7:58:06 GMT
Is this lady off her rocker. Another one who’s hatred for police totally blinkers what’s right and wrong. Unbelievable that she’s an MP. People like her help create the hatred some have for the police and encourage morons to not stop for the police but to try and ram their way away from them in 2 tonne cars. Its a problem. But of course she'll see herself as a paragon of virtue. She's a grade A moron... |
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Post by Clem Fandango on Oct 25, 2024 8:12:14 GMT
Is this lady off her rocker. Another one who’s hatred for police totally blinkers what’s right and wrong. Unbelievable that she’s an MP. People like her help create the hatred some have for the police and encourage morons to not stop for the police but to try and ram their way away from them in 2 tonne cars. Its a problem. But of course she'll see herself as a paragon of virtue. She's a grade A moron... Another fucking idiot in parliament. She'd no doubt change her tune if she was ever the victim of crime. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Oct 25, 2024 8:16:43 GMT
Interesting comments do you anticipate gross misconduct proceedings in this case ? From my experience I would be very surprised if they decided not to hold a gross misconduct hearing in the coming months. I doubt it. The IOPC’s role is to independently investigate the circumstances surrounding a fatal police shooting, including the decision to use lethal force. Under the law, firearms officers can use lethal force, however it must be reasonable in the circumstances the officer honestly believed them to be. The decisions to criminally investigate Sergeant Blake, and for the IOPC to refer the case to the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS), followed careful consideration of a significant amount of evidence gathered during the IOPC’s independent investigation and by applying the relevant legal tests which govern its work. Following the CPS decision to charge Martyn Blake with murder, the matter has now been heard in open court and the officer has accounted for his actions before a jury, so I’m not sure the IOPC will want to do anything now. It looks like the IOPC perhaps jumped the gun when it decided to refer to the CPS, though, as it should have decided upon whether any misconduct occurred first before it passed the buck to the CPS. That's very helpful and informative. However it would seem the CPS agreed with the IOPC and maintain that the case reached their threshold to take the matter to court news.sky.com/story/why-did-chris-kabas-killer-stand-trial-and-what-are-the-laws-on-police-shootings-13238608. The IOPC and the CPS are in an impossible position here. If they don't take cases forward they will be accused of a cover up and if they do take cases forward they are accused of making decisions for political reasons. As the article points out of the 26 cases looked into in the last 10 years only 2 (including this case) have gone to court. There is little actual evidence to support the view that the IOPC and the CPS are unduly influenced by political considerations. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Oct 25, 2024 8:47:15 GMT
Is this lady off her rocker. Another one who’s hatred for police totally blinkers what’s right and wrong. Unbelievable that she’s an MP. People like her help create the hatred some have for the police and encourage morons to not stop for the police but to try and ram their way away from them in 2 tonne cars. Its a problem. But of course she'll see herself as a paragon of virtue. She's a grade A moron... What these last few days have shown is that there may be plenty wrong with policing but there’s also plenty wrong with people’s blinkered and bigoted attitude towards them too. If there was a more balanced and reasoned argument and they were more independent in their views then the majority of the public would be more understanding around the issues that are wrong in policing however people like her, Khan, Corbyn and Abbott because they clearly have a deep imbedded hatred just make themselves look stupid and can’t be taken seriously by anyone other than people as twisted as they are. There arguments and views can be picked apart in no time and they need challenging rather than spouting the same old drivel. It’s telling that they’d rather show there sympathy towards a known criminal who’d be in prison for attempted murder than someone trying to do their job who’s been through 2 years of hell. Not one ounce of sympathy from any of them towards Martyn Blake. |
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Post by stuammo on Oct 25, 2024 21:21:26 GMT
Whatever you think of Julia Hartley Brewer, she puts this deluded clown in his place
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Post by franklin on Oct 25, 2024 21:45:34 GMT
Whatever you think of Julia Hartley Brewer, she puts this deluded clown in his place Ken Hinds is the definition of thick as fuck. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Oct 25, 2024 21:47:55 GMT
Whatever you think of Julia Hartley Brewer, she puts this deluded clown in his place He’s so far off the mark it’s unbelievable. Kaba even said to someone on the phone that he was being followed by police so he 100 percent knew they were behind him. It’s like they give some long spiel without having any knowledge of the facts. It’s laughable that he thinks the police are smearing Duggan and Kaba’s characters. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Oct 27, 2024 8:32:49 GMT
Interesting to see that the protest yesterday seems to have been pretty poorly attended other than Kaba’s family who attended no.10.
Perhaps the black community aren’t as traumatised as some politicians and media have been suggesting and they can see the case for what it is.
Perhaps that agenda needs to stop being pushed.
On another note just came across this interesting debate. I think it sums up perfectly those who know the role and those that think they do.
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Oct 28, 2024 7:23:30 GMT
Well said James Cleverly.
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Oct 28, 2024 7:27:15 GMT
Is this lady off her rocker. Another one who’s hatred for police totally blinkers what’s right and wrong. Unbelievable that she’s an MP. Imho she lying or ignorant or both, no way has there been over 1900 deaths in police custody since 1990. Deaths in police custody and following contact maybe in but custody no way. Someone who's stopped and searched then killed in a unrelated matter say a car accident or even natural causes within 24hrs is classed as a death following police contact. So she's full of shit. Good that someone called her out |
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Post by roylandstoke on Oct 28, 2024 7:45:24 GMT
Is this lady off her rocker. Another one who’s hatred for police totally blinkers what’s right and wrong. Unbelievable that she’s an MP. People like her help create the hatred some have for the police and encourage morons to not stop for the police but to try and ram their way away from them in 2 tonne cars. Its a problem. But of course she'll see herself as a paragon of virtue. She's a grade A moron... Have you ever considered the reasons why some people may not trust the police? |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 28, 2024 11:27:59 GMT
People like her help create the hatred some have for the police and encourage morons to not stop for the police but to try and ram their way away from them in 2 tonne cars. Its a problem. But of course she'll see herself as a paragon of virtue. She's a grade A moron... Have you ever considered the reasons why some people may not trust the police? I have of course. The point i am making should be fairly obvious. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Oct 28, 2024 11:28:05 GMT
People like her help create the hatred some have for the police and encourage morons to not stop for the police but to try and ram their way away from them in 2 tonne cars. Its a problem. But of course she'll see herself as a paragon of virtue. She's a grade A moron... Have you ever considered the reasons why some people may not trust the police? There’s a huge difference between mistrust and inbuilt hatred / bigotry that causes people to be totally irrational. |
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Post by roylandstoke on Oct 28, 2024 12:10:34 GMT
Have you ever considered the reasons why some people may not trust the police? There’s a huge difference between mistrust and inbuilt hatred / bigotry that causes people to be totally irrational. ‘Inbuilt bigotry’ certainly does cause a lot of problems. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 28, 2024 12:13:52 GMT
There’s a huge difference between mistrust and inbuilt hatred / bigotry that causes people to be totally irrational. ‘Inbuilt bigotry’ certainly does cause a lot of problems. Doesn't it just..... |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Oct 28, 2024 13:03:38 GMT
‘Inbuilt bigotry’ certainly does cause a lot of problems. Doesn't it just..... Unfortunately it's prevelant on all sides. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Oct 28, 2024 13:08:17 GMT
Unfortunately it's prevelant on all sides. Usually on the right. |
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Post by iancransonsknees on Oct 28, 2024 13:28:39 GMT
Unfortunately it's prevelant on all sides. Usually on the right. That's a little one eyed surely? |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 28, 2024 13:33:24 GMT
That's a little one eyed surely? A swivelling one eye or just a standard one 😆 |
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Post by Ariel Manto on Oct 28, 2024 13:36:55 GMT
People who do not like the Police and have a total hatred of all of them (i.e. happy to tarnish an entire workforce on the actions of one or two bad apples) usually are the ones who have been nicked by them.
People who are vocal about their hatred of the Police give themselves away.
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Post by franklin on Oct 28, 2024 15:01:48 GMT
People who do not like the Police and have a total hatred of all of them (i.e. happy to tarnish an entire workforce on the actions of one or two bad apples) usually are the ones who have been nicked by them. People who are vocal about their hatred of the Police give themselves away. Are all nurses mass murders or GP's or breast cancer surgeons mutilating killers, bizarre how one profession is so unforgivable while others are just a couple of "bad apples" more people killed by Harold Shipman and Letby than all the Police put together I'd argue 🤷♂️ |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 28, 2024 17:53:30 GMT
People who do not like the Police and have a total hatred of all of them (i.e. happy to tarnish an entire workforce on the actions of one or two bad apples) usually are the ones who have been nicked by them. People who are vocal about their hatred of the Police give themselves away. Are all nurses mass murders or GP's or breast cancer surgeons mutilating killers, bizarre how one profession is so unforgivable while others are just a couple of "bad apples" more people killed by Harold Shipman and Letby than all the Police put together I'd argue 🤷♂️ It’s authority they can’t stomach. They were probably “awkward” as children |
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Post by dutchstokie on Oct 28, 2024 19:21:29 GMT
Are all nurses mass murders or GP's or breast cancer surgeons mutilating killers, bizarre how one profession is so unforgivable while others are just a couple of "bad apples" more people killed by Harold Shipman and Letby than all the Police put together I'd argue 🤷♂️ It’s authority they can’t stomach. They were probably “awkward” as children Poor parenting |
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