Long Term Commercial Plans at Stoke

[Kenilworth_Stokies]

The commercial side of football is changing hugely, at the top end of football. The biggest clubs are turning their stadia into huge revenue generating enterprises, with hospitality, conferencing and events capabilities.

For example, Tottenham's new stadium was once the benchmark for a costly, but revenue generating, stadium with microbreweries, bars and restaurants built in. But Man City have moved things on a level by adding the arena to their Etihad campus, plus a couple of smaller stadia and they are now building a hotel complex behind one end. The Etihad campus is now a huge, sprawling development, taking the club's revenues way beyond simple match-day and TV incomes. Likewise, there are rumblings that Man Utd are about to do something similar, with a total redevelopment of the stadium, and the wider Old Trafford area beyond the stadium.

Clubs like us are falling yet further behind in the great financial gulf, simply by standing still.

Now, we simply don't have the resources or commercial catchment of those clubs. But is there an argument that we should be doing something along those lines at Stoke? Without wishing to spend the Coates' money for them, if they are prevented by FFP in investing directly into the team, they are allowed to invest in capital projects instead (as they did with the training ground). So, some kind of hotel, arena or conferencing facilities, owned by the club to bring in non-matchday revenue, perhaps?

In fact, if the Coates really did have billions burning a hole in their pockets, you could argue that binning the cheaply constructed Bet365 stadium site and developing a new campus (stadium + other commercial facilities) elsewhere might be an option. I mean, if Man Utd are considering demolishing and relocating Old Trafford to the other end of their lands, then nothing is sacred when it comes to big plans.

[rowbeartoe]

Denise Coates doesn't have the desire to spruce up anything to do with Stoke we're just a toy for John to play with out of respect to Pete and what he did for her, if you ask me

[cheekymatt71]

Does all the extra income related to hotels and whatnot count towards revenues in FFP also?

For it to even make a difference it needs to be tens of millions per year EXTRA, which I doubt it would ever be in the catchment area of Stoke.

Its a nice idea and worth considering, but I dont see it even being viable at Stoke just given our general location in the country.

[Robo10]

I said last night when the lights were on, what a perfect venue for boxing - probs get 45-50k in the ground with ringside seating, would look amazing, big screens up, hospitaliy boxes - a real money spinner

Even gigs, it could be a real venue for some of the bigger bands to play at, far better than Old Trafford (cricket) for example

On the negative, transport, parking etc around the ground remains a problem for big events, and you only have to look at the farce of the Eng womens game at the B365 for when lots of people from outside the area want to get to the ground and away - gridlock!

[Eggybread]

Oct 3, 2024 10:36:51 GMT Kenilworth_Stokies said:

The commercial side of football is changing hugely, at the top end of football. The biggest clubs are turning their stadia into huge revenue generating enterprises, with hospitality, conferencing and events capabilities.

For example, Tottenham's new stadium was once the benchmark for a costly, but revenue generating, stadium with microbreweries, bars and restaurants built in. But Man City have moved things on a level by adding the arena to their Etihad campus, plus a couple of smaller stadia and they are now building a hotel complex behind one end. The Etihad campus is now a huge, sprawling development, taking the club's revenues way beyond simple match-day and TV incomes. Likewise, there are rumblings that Man Utd are about to do something similar, with a total redevelopment of the stadium, and the wider Old Trafford area beyond the stadium.

Clubs like us are falling yet further behind in the great financial gulf, simply by standing still.

Now, we simply don't have the resources or commercial catchment of those clubs. But is there an argument that we should be doing something along those lines at Stoke? Without wishing to spend the Coates' money for them, if they are prevented by FFP in investing directly into the team, they are allowed to invest in capital projects instead (as they did with the training ground). So, some kind of hotel, arena or conferencing facilities, owned by the club to bring in non-matchday revenue, perhaps?

In fact, if the Coates really did have billions burning a hole in their pockets, you could argue that binning the cheaply constructed Bet365 stadium site and developing a new campus (stadium + other commercial facilities) elsewhere might be an option. I mean, if Man Utd are considering demolishing and relocating Old Trafford to the other end of their lands, then nothing is sacred when it comes to big plans.

Totally agree but we are miles behind in the forward thinking stakes.Plus any alterations/changes are always met with opposition no mattter how good an idea it is.Im not really sure what the ground could be used for on a regular basis? What is appropriate to our status football or as a city.
Everything just seems to by pass us now and all the money is getting sucked up by the larger cities.The infrastructurearound the ground is also non existant,bars restaurants etc.

[Tom_stokiepmre89]

Oct 3, 2024 10:49:54 GMT Robo10 said:

I said last night when the lights were on, what a perfect venue for boxing - probs get 45-50k in the ground with ringside seating, would look amazing, big screens up, hospitaliy boxes - a real money spinner

Even gigs, it could be a real venue for some of the bigger bands to play at, far better than Old Trafford (cricket) for example

On the negative, transport, parking etc around the ground remains a problem for big events, and you only have to look at the farce of the Eng womens game at the B365 for when lots of people from outside the area want to get to the ground and away - gridlock!

The concourses in many parts of the ground can barely cope with the crowds we get now.

[SamB_SCFC]

Absolutely no chance they'd consider a new stadium even if we got promoted. The current one is easily fit for purpose, still has scope for expansion and can easily be upgraded as shown in the summer with the excellent addition of the Fanzone.

Construction costs are so expensive these days and are unlikely to come down so something as expensive as building a new stadium would never pay for itself these days when you already have a modern stadium. Not for clubs our size. It's only really worth it now if you're one of the massive clubs, or if you have an outdated ground with little scope for expansion or upgrading. Birmingham or West Brom maybe could benefit because their capacities are a bit on the low side and there isn't a huge amount of scope in the plot to expand or add extra facilities like we can. I think Birmingham are thinking about it.

[Kenilworth_Stokies]

It's not so much that we need a new stadium, or that we could put on more sporting events at the ground. It's more that we ought to be thinking of building other stuff around the ground (either the existing one, or a pie-in-the-sky new one).

The Man City example shows the scale of what we're up against. The Etihad campus was already vast, but they've spent £300M on adding 8,000 extra seats, a 400 bed hotel, and a festival-capable fan zone:


And Man Utd are rumoured to be spending $2.5Bn on totally redeveloping the whole of Trafford Park:


We simply cannot compete with that, as it stands. Soon it will be the case that football clubs simply cannot survive unless they have non-matchday commercial income. Realistically, even our new fanzone and training facilities don't provide revenue outside of football related activities.

Do we have a catch-up plan though?

[lordb]

Oct 3, 2024 10:42:11 GMT rowbeartoe said:

Denise Coates doesn't have the desire to spruce up anything to do with Stoke we're just a toy for John to play with out of respect to Pete and what he did for her, if you ask me

not an issue

John has £squillions of money of his own

[lordb]

Oct 3, 2024 10:55:16 GMT Tom_stokiepmre89 said:

Oct 3, 2024 10:49:54 GMT Robo10 said:

I said last night when the lights were on, what a perfect venue for boxing - probs get 45-50k in the ground with ringside seating, would look amazing, big screens up, hospitaliy boxes - a real money spinner

Even gigs, it could be a real venue for some of the bigger bands to play at, far better than Old Trafford (cricket) for example

On the negative, transport, parking etc around the ground remains a problem for big events, and you only have to look at the farce of the Eng womens game at the B365 for when lots of people from outside the area want to get to the ground and away - gridlock!

The concourses in many parts of the ground can barely cope with the crowds we get now.

easily resolved at either end as the concourses are at ground level they could be expanded outwards without that much outlay

be harder but still doable on the east side of the ground

[Scouse]

Club Infrastructure projects  need to be commercially viable , ( or to comply with changing regulation ) not for reasons of ego or vanity … we’re currently underpinning our support by large subsidies , ST prices are so artificially low that many think nothing of missing a game .. yet people expect the club to spend 100m per stand ( the going rate for state of the art stands that include hospitality vital to pay for the build )  on what would be a vanity project , rather than producing a viable return , when we can’t sellout our current hospitality which is priced at some of the lowest prices in the league  

presumably the club will be viewing the fanzone popularity and income with interest once dark , cold and wet days arrive after the international break 

The site should have contained mixed use including a retail element , witness Bolton , but presumably the same blinkered outdated resistance against such a plan were used that are used in the outdated attempt to keep Hanley  , Tunstall , Burslem , Fenton and Stoke centres alive but stuck in the past without imagination or any adaption to modern life.

Non commercial based city infrastructure projects are the domain of local , regional and central government.. hold your councillors to account as a starting point 

None of the above doesn’t mean I don’t have a great empathy and love for the area , SOT needs a massive rethink and leg up ..but the sums required are huge ( billions not millions ) 

[stokiejoe]

The huge problem with the stadium is where it is. Parking is hopeless, getting in and out is awful. No proximity to a rail station etc.

It was almost forced on the club by some daft idea by the local authority of Vale and Stoke sharing a ground,as if that would ever work.

Not sure where else you could locate the stadium or how you could improve access.

[danceswithclams]

Train station.

[Kenilworth_Stokies]

Rather than increasing capacity, which we certainly don't need at the moment, I'm thinking more about non-football commercial enterprises that generate money for the club. Don't want to fill in corner with more empty seats? Then fill the Boothen End / Franklyn Stand corner with a hotel and bars, with balconies overlooking the pitch. Bars and eateries that are open all year round. That kind thing. Capital infrastructure which brings in non-football revenue.

I'm not saying those exact schemes, as such things require a proper business case beyond a few glib sentences on a message board, but it's the principle of capital expenditure for things that bring in non-football revenue which I'm getting at. That's how the Coates family could make the club recurringly self-sufficient, rather than continually subsidising its losses and going back to square 1 every few years.

[Mint Berry Barks]

Forward thinking?

In Stoke on Trent?

[Scouse]

Oct 3, 2024 12:28:21 GMT Kenilworth_Stokies said:

Rather than increasing capacity, which we certainly don't need at the moment, I'm thinking more about non-football commercial enterprises that generate money for the club. Don't want to fill in corner with more empty seats? Then fill the Boothen End / Franklyn Stand corner with a hotel and bars, with balconies overlooking the pitch. Bars and eateries that are open all year round. That kind thing. Capital infrastructure which brings in non-football revenue.

I'm not saying those exact schemes, as such things require a proper business case beyond a few glib sentences on a message board, but it's the principle of capital expenditure for things that bring in non-football revenue which I'm getting at. That's how the Coates family could make the club recurringly self-sufficient, rather than continually subsidising its losses and going back to square 1 every few years.

Agree serious plans go beyond back of fag packet stuff on a message board ( be they for or against )  the club have looked at new revenue streams ..ie Ricardos & the fanzone , planning permission for non football events … but I just think for creating additional revenue , especially non event revenue  , without a retail element there’s little if anything in the surrounding area that assists or attracts footfall on non event hours ..and therefore will always likely always restrict any development plans ..ie is another hotel in the area be it budget or 4/5 star commercially , needed or viable 50 weeks / 7 days a week  

Of course if the council regenerated Hanley , the clubs car parks and facilities could be used as and benifit from being a park and ride site ..though actually on the few occasions I’ve visited the site on non match days there seems to be non football events on at the ground and the west carpark at least is often already well used

[Ron]

Oct 3, 2024 10:49:54 GMT Robo10 said:

I said last night when the lights were on, what a perfect venue for boxing - probs get 45-50k in the ground with ringside seating, would look amazing, big screens up, hospitaliy boxes - a real money spinner

Even gigs, it could be a real venue for some of the bigger bands to play at, far better than Old Trafford (cricket) for example

On the negative, transport, parking etc around the ground remains a problem for big events, and you only have to look at the farce of the Eng womens game at the B365 for when lots of people from outside the area want to get to the ground and away - gridlock!

Exactly this- if our club wanted to follow this route then the first thing to do would be to build a decent stadium in a more accessible location with better transport links. 

[Ron]

Oct 3, 2024 13:18:31 GMT Scouse said:

Oct 3, 2024 12:28:21 GMT Kenilworth_Stokies said:

Rather than increasing capacity, which we certainly don't need at the moment, I'm thinking more about non-football commercial enterprises that generate money for the club. Don't want to fill in corner with more empty seats? Then fill the Boothen End / Franklyn Stand corner with a hotel and bars, with balconies overlooking the pitch. Bars and eateries that are open all year round. That kind thing. Capital infrastructure which brings in non-football revenue.

I'm not saying those exact schemes, as such things require a proper business case beyond a few glib sentences on a message board, but it's the principle of capital expenditure for things that bring in non-football revenue which I'm getting at. That's how the Coates family could make the club recurringly self-sufficient, rather than continually subsidising its losses and going back to square 1 every few years.

Agree serious plans go beyond back of fag packet stuff on a message board ( be they for or against )  the club have looked at new revenue streams ..ie Ricardos & the fanzone , planning permission for non football events … but I just think for creating additional revenue , especially non event revenue  , without a retail element there’s little if anything in the surrounding area that assists or attracts footfall on non event hours ..and therefore will always likely always restrict any development plans ..ie is another hotel in the area be it budget or 4/5 star commercially , needed or viable 50 weeks / 7 days a week  

Of course if the council regenerated Hanley , the clubs car parks and facilities could be used as and benifit from being a park and ride site ..though actually on the few occasions I’ve visited the site on non match days there seems to be non football events on at the ground and the west carpark at least is often already well used

Or the club and the local authority work together to develop the stadium and surrounding infrastructure on a new site in and around the city centre. It would be transformational. Wether or not such a location exisits is another question! would be the best thing to happen to the city centre ( which is totally on its arse) in years.