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Post by J-Roar on Jul 10, 2024 12:47:13 GMT
I just dont think it helps. The penalty taker KNOWS the keeper has the stats on which way he shoots mainly. So surely the penalty taker would just go the other way. This knowledge works both ways. If you know where the keeper is going to dive beforehand its the easiest penalty ever to slot it into the other side of the goal. Or maybe not?!?!? Its all mind-games at the end of the day. Im sure Pickford doesnt ALWAYS follow whats written on the bottle - its just a guidance To be fair, like Roy Keane said, why didn't he save them all, if that was the case? Every player will favour a certain side but change it up every so often, not sure how much some written notes on water bottle actually work. Akanji's was also an awful penalty. Doesn't it put doubt in the penalty takers mind? And encourage them to change to a less favoured side. I'd imagine psychologists are involved on both sides.
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Post by yellowsnowman on Jul 10, 2024 13:01:21 GMT
I dont think its cheating, players can always shoot in other corners or what ever.
Bet most goalkeepers do this.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Jul 10, 2024 13:03:48 GMT
Certainly not cheating
No different than a player advising a keeper which way to go
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Post by dirtygary69 on Jul 10, 2024 13:07:49 GMT
To be fair, like Roy Keane said, why didn't he save them all, if that was the case? Every player will favour a certain side but change it up every so often, not sure how much some written notes on water bottle actually work. Akanji's was also an awful penalty. Doesn't it put doubt in the penalty takers mind? And encourage them to change to a less favoured side. I'd imagine psychologists are involved on both sides. Maybe, but the keeper doesn't really know, does he? I bet even the players stepping up don't really know themselves until they get to the penalty spot.
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 10, 2024 13:13:09 GMT
If I was a forward in a game going to extra time it would be pretty much my main priority to take a sneaky drink and accidentally misplace that water bottle
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jul 10, 2024 13:14:39 GMT
I just read online that Pickford has been using his water bottle to to put notes about opponents penalty taking preferences. Instructions saying dive left or right for each opponent etc. Good idea? Why start a post using the word “cheat”. Ethical/Unethical perhaps. Any laws against it? I’d say good pre-planning
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Post by J-Roar on Jul 10, 2024 13:19:28 GMT
Doesn't it put doubt in the penalty takers mind? And encourage them to change to a less favoured side. I'd imagine psychologists are involved on both sides. Maybe, but the keeper doesn't really know, does he? I bet even the players stepping up don't really know themselves until they get to the penalty spot. Agree, it's all about probabilities. Any potential gain is worth going for. It used to make me laugh when people said there was no point practicing pens as you couldn't recreate the pressure. Absolute load of bollocks.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Jul 10, 2024 13:29:07 GMT
The wandering around and not getting on your line is sneaking in with more with keepers. Noticed Italian and Argie keepers doing it in previous tournaments and ignoring the ref telling them to get on their line more than once.
Pickford being doing it now and pulling faces although I don't think refs can do much re that.
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Post by PotterLog on Jul 10, 2024 13:37:13 GMT
I just read online that Pickford has been using his water bottle to to put notes about opponents penalty taking preferences. Instructions saying dive left or right for each opponent etc. Good idea? Why start a post using the word “cheat”. Ethical/Unethical perhaps. Any laws against it? I’d say good pre-planning I don't think introducing "unethical" changes anything, that's the same connotation as cheating. It's just straightforward preparation, I don't know why there'd be a debate about it
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Post by starkiller on Jul 10, 2024 15:24:09 GMT
i still love the Bruce Grobbelar story about sneaking into a stadium too watch the opposition team take penalties before a final with Liverpool the silly sod forgot to take into account the side of the stadium he was sat in and got every single one wrong No. He got them right. The stuffed envelopes proved it.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Jul 10, 2024 15:43:05 GMT
Did Butland ever read his bottle? I think he had an Evian water bottle that said STILL At least he followed the instructions
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Post by femark on Jul 10, 2024 15:53:43 GMT
Of course they don't always take the same type of penalty. The statistics will show that player A aims 60% of his penalties into the bottom right corner, so that is the way the keeper will dive. If you wait for the penalty taker there is not enough time to react and dive unless it is a poorly taken penalty. I just dont think it helps. The penalty taker KNOWS the keeper has the stats on which way he shoots mainly. So surely the penalty taker would just go the other way. This knowledge works both ways. If you know where the keeper is going to dive beforehand its the easiest penalty ever to slot it into the other side of the goal. Or maybe not?!?!? Its all mind-games at the end of the day. Im sure Pickford doesnt ALWAYS follow whats written on the bottle - its just a guidance I'm sure that the outfield players are briefed on how the keeper dives, like whether he goes one way more often or sometimes waits and reacts etc. It definitely helps and is better than just guessing or waiting and reacting every time.
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Post by Trouserdog on Jul 10, 2024 16:07:21 GMT
Did Butland ever read his bottle? His must have said 'Flop pathetically to the right for every penalty'
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Post by bettyswallox on Jul 10, 2024 16:49:09 GMT
Did Butland ever read his bottle? Yes it read as follows : Taker 1 - flop to the left Taker 2 - flop to the left Taker 3 - flop to the left Taker 4 - flop to the left Etc etc
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Jul 10, 2024 17:50:03 GMT
I just dont think it helps. The penalty taker KNOWS the keeper has the stats on which way he shoots mainly. So surely the penalty taker would just go the other way. This knowledge works both ways. If you know where the keeper is going to dive beforehand its the easiest penalty ever to slot it into the other side of the goal. Or maybe not?!?!? Its all mind-games at the end of the day. Im sure Pickford doesnt ALWAYS follow whats written on the bottle - its just a guidance I'm sure that the outfield players are briefed on how the keeper dives, like whether he goes one way more often or sometimes waits and reacts etc. It definitely helps and is better than just guessing or waiting and reacting every time. Quite often, the more erratic keepers I found were better at stopping pens. Shilton got grief in 1990 but no keeper saves those You'd get some mad looking S American keeper who looked liked Rick James and be all over the shop but would often stop a pen or 2
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Post by essexstokey on Jul 10, 2024 17:55:26 GMT
Not eve6 a new thing maddie hynch did it in the hockey to win Olympic gold against the dutch
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Post by J-Roar on Jul 10, 2024 18:01:48 GMT
The wandering around and not getting on your line is sneaking in with more with keepers. Noticed Italian and Argie keepers doing it in previous tournaments and ignoring the ref telling them to get on their line more than once. Pickford being doing it now and pulling faces although I don't think refs can do much re that. They could book them but everyone knows they wouldn't give 2 bookings. What would happen if a keeper did get sent off? Who takes over?
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Post by kustokie on Jul 10, 2024 18:04:26 GMT
I recall reading recently that Ramsdale’s save percentage is twice that of Pickford.
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Post by kustokie on Jul 10, 2024 18:06:37 GMT
The wandering around and not getting on your line is sneaking in with more with keepers. Noticed Italian and Argie keepers doing it in previous tournaments and ignoring the ref telling them to get on their line more than once. Pickford being doing it now and pulling faces although I don't think refs can do much re that. They could book them but everyone knows they wouldn't give 2 bookings. What would happen if a keeper did get sent off? Who takes over? Anyone remember the Stoke vs WHU semi-final at Old Trafford when there was only sub?. Bobby Moore had to replace the WHU goalie and we peppered him
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Jul 10, 2024 18:06:45 GMT
The wandering around and not getting on your line is sneaking in with more with keepers. Noticed Italian and Argie keepers doing it in previous tournaments and ignoring the ref telling them to get on their line more than once. Pickford being doing it now and pulling faces although I don't think refs can do much re that. They could book them but everyone knows they wouldn't give 2 bookings. What would happen if a keeper did get sent off? Who takes over? Happened recently, a keeper was booked during a shootout already on a yellow. Rule was the yellow during the game didn't count. He would have to get 2 yellows or a straight red I think and then a player who finishes the game has to take his place, not a sub keeper.
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Post by nott1 on Jul 10, 2024 20:00:04 GMT
I just read online that Pickford has been using his water bottle to to put notes about opponents penalty taking preferences. Instructions saying dive left or right for each opponent etc. Good idea? Why start a post using the word “cheat”. Ethical/Unethical perhaps. Any laws against it? I’d say good pre-planning As I already stated it was not my word I just quoted an online article that said cheat which was said by Gary Lineker. That is why the word cheat was in the headline!
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jul 10, 2024 21:51:52 GMT
They could book them but everyone knows they wouldn't give 2 bookings. What would happen if a keeper did get sent off? Who takes over? Happened recently, a keeper was booked during a shootout already on a yellow. Rule was the yellow during the game didn't count. He would have to get 2 yellows or a straight red I think and then a player who finishes the game has to take his place, not a sub keeper. Was Martinez for Villa in Europa conference match v Lille I think it was mate? Maybe wrong with opponents but I'm sure was him. He always does the tricks for the Argies aswell in pen shootouts.
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Post by yellowsnowman on Jul 10, 2024 22:05:45 GMT
Happened recently, a keeper was booked during a shootout already on a yellow. Rule was the yellow during the game didn't count. He would have to get 2 yellows or a straight red I think and then a player who finishes the game has to take his place, not a sub keeper. Was Martinez for Villa in Europa conference match v Lille I think it was mate? Maybe wrong with opponents but I'm sure was him. He always does the tricks for the Argies aswell in pen shootouts. The guys nuts!
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jul 10, 2024 22:38:32 GMT
Was Martinez for Villa in Europa conference match v Lille I think it was mate? Maybe wrong with opponents but I'm sure was him. He always does the tricks for the Argies aswell in pen shootouts. The guys nuts! I think he's great and a bloody good keeper to go with it.
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Post by napperwainwright on Jul 10, 2024 22:59:00 GMT
I just read online that Pickford has been using his water bottle to to put notes about opponents penalty taking preferences. Instructions saying dive left or right for each opponent etc. Good idea? There is also a note on the bottom saying, "drink from other end".
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Post by J-Roar on Jul 11, 2024 5:57:26 GMT
I just read online that Pickford has been using his water bottle to to put notes about opponents penalty taking preferences. Instructions saying dive left or right for each opponent etc. Good idea? There is also a note on the bottom saying, "drink from other end". Unless someone has pissed in it.
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