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Post by frasier37 on Jul 3, 2024 7:54:59 GMT
Rivers are the veins of the planet, water its blood.
It was privatised to be able to give it proper investment, to future proof it and take the burden from public borrowing.
30yrs on and there's been NO investment. Since privatisation £72 billion has been paid in dividends to boss's Owners and investors etc
Please watch ...
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Post by musik on Jul 3, 2024 7:59:44 GMT
What do Trump think do you think?
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Post by Northy on Jul 3, 2024 8:11:13 GMT
And the chalk streams and rivers are disappearing from the south east because of ground water extraction to supply the over populated south east.
We have about 90% of the worlds chalk streams here in the UK.
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Post by frasier37 on Jul 3, 2024 8:13:28 GMT
What do Trump think do you think?  |
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jul 3, 2024 10:41:43 GMT
I thought this was a thread on Scotland's plight since being eliminated from the Euros.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 3, 2024 11:07:20 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 3, 2024 11:10:59 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 3, 2024 17:38:22 GMT
Can't post the link from the BBC News page.
Whilst the focus is on global environmental issues , we should not lose sight of what is happening locally.
Great thread Fraise.
Water companies could face a "flood" of legal challenges over sewage discharges, lawyers have said, after a landmark Supreme Court ruling.
On Tuesday, seven justices at the UK's highest court ruled that the Manchester Ship Canal Company is able to sue United Utilities over the alleged release of raw sewage into the canal.
Speaking to the BBC, one lawyer said owners of adjacent waterways or even members of the public could bring claims against other utility companies as a result.
Environmental charities said the ruling was good news.
It comes at a time when water companies have been under significant financial pressure and scrutiny for unauthorised discharges of waste.
The panel of judges found that the Manchester Ship Canal Company was entitled to bring a nuisance or trespass claim for compensation over the release of "untreated foul water".
It comes despite previous rulings to the contrary in both the High Court and the Court of Appeal, which led to the private company's appeal.
[br
There are about 100 United Utilities outfalls along the canal, where treated waste is released from the sewerage network.
Raw sewage is also dumped when the system is operating over capacity, something the judges said could be avoided if the firm "invested in improved infrastructure and treatment".
A lengthy legal battle took place between the canal company, owned by the Peel Group, and United Utilities.
The water provider argued that only regulators could take action over the spills, with the original 1991 act that privatised the sector providing it with protection.
But Paul Greatholder, partner at law firm Russell Cooke, said that the ruling on Tuesday meant the "floodgates are open".
"This could bring a range of potential claims from either the owners of adjacent waterways, or even from members of the public who have been made unwell as a consequence," he said.
Emily Nicholson, partner at law firm Mishcon de Reya said: "If millions of copycat claims then spring up, that will be a reflection of the utility companies' failures rather than the failure of the courts or legal system."
]She said that those affected by any failures, such as swimmers, fishermen and environmental organisations, now at least have a route to seek redress.
Mr Greatholder also suggested that the Supreme Court had put down a "marker" for water utility companies in claiming that issues could have been avoided if more investment had gone into improving the canal's infrastructure.
"No doubt the same could be said of all water companies. Thames Water has spent billions of pounds on a ‘supersewer’ running through London to try to mitigate just this sort of issue," he added.
Water firms including Thames Water have come under significant scrutiny over their environmental records in recent months.
Recent BBC analysis found that every major English water company had reported data suggesting they've discharged raw sewage when the weather is dry - a practice which is potentially illegal.
On Tuesday, United Utilities said it "understood and shared" concerns about the need to improve, and pointed to a £3bn investment plan aimed at cutting pollution by improving infrastructure.
Ship canal company wins water firm sewage appeal
Published
1 day ago
Why is sewage released into rivers and the sea?
Published
14 June
The Environmental Law Foundation, a charity which intervened in the Supreme Court hearing in March, welcomed the ruling.
Its co-director Emma Montlake, said: "Our water environments have been regularly polluted with untreated sewage, water biodiversity denuded and degraded with impunity by private water companies.
"A national scandal doesn't come close to describing what we have put up with. This is a glad day for environmental justice, not just for the public, but for nature."
Some have pointed out however, that this could pose another big challenge for utility companies, when some already struggling under huge debt piles.
Recently, additional powers were granted to the Environment Agency to issue unlimited fines, with industry sources telling the BBC that "the combination of fines and potential private lawsuits could make the difference between firms being able to operate and going under."
They also expressed concern over what may happen to any damages awarded to private companies or individuals, in contrast with when regulators issue fines and that money raised is returned to customers.
Sources close to the watchdog Ofwat said that the ruling would not affect their interim decision on what water companies are allowed to charge customers from next year, which is due out next Thursday.
But they added that they could imagine that water companies may make an argument that an increase in claims against them would be an additional cost they would need to make provision for - pushing up their costs and ultimately consumer bills.
The final decision on what companies can charge next year is not due until December.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 8, 2024 10:50:57 GMT
www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/07/sewage-spills-vote-winner-lib-dems-polluted-chalk-streams-england-chichesterA Vote winner, or Loser. In February the village green and pond at East Dean were covered in what residents described as sewage with a film of fungus. The stench was described as “overpowering”. The picturesque green was still cordoned off on Friday with signs warning that it was “unsafe for public access”. The disturbing plight of the Lavant and other rivers across the country – and the failure of the water companies to protect them – helped power the Liberal Democrats to win 71 seats on Thursday. The Liberal Democrat leader Ed Davey hailed the party’s success the “best results in a century”.
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 8, 2024 11:20:12 GMT
I'm really hoping this new Government is going to get a grip on this as they have promised in their Manifesto.
We should all be keeping a close eye on this and making sure they go through with their policies and check whether they go far enough.
Thanks for starting this thread. A very critical and under-represented issue imo.
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Post by frasier37 on Jul 8, 2024 12:01:49 GMT
www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/07/sewage-spills-vote-winner-lib-dems-polluted-chalk-streams-england-chichesterA Vote winner, or Loser. In February the village green and pond at East Dean were covered in what residents described as sewage with a film of fungus. The stench was described as “overpowering”. The picturesque green was still cordoned off on Friday with signs warning that it was “unsafe for public access”. The disturbing plight of the Lavant and other rivers across the country – and the failure of the water companies to protect them – helped power the Liberal Democrats to win 71 seats on Thursday. The Liberal Democrat leader Ed Davey hailed the party’s success the “best results in a century”. "Hold them to account"  we all know that means nothing Id prefer them to suffer something along the same lines as the river inhabitants ....make them sit in the local municipal swimming and the whole town line up to shit and piss in it while the companies they were turning a blind eye to sneaked the odd bit of industrial waste on their heads |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 8, 2024 12:03:42 GMT
www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/07/sewage-spills-vote-winner-lib-dems-polluted-chalk-streams-england-chichesterA Vote winner, or Loser. In February the village green and pond at East Dean were covered in what residents described as sewage with a film of fungus. The stench was described as “overpowering”. The picturesque green was still cordoned off on Friday with signs warning that it was “unsafe for public access”. The disturbing plight of the Lavant and other rivers across the country – and the failure of the water companies to protect them – helped power the Liberal Democrats to win 71 seats on Thursday. The Liberal Democrat leader Ed Davey hailed the party’s success the “best results in a century”. "Hold them to account" we all know that means nothing Id prefer them to suffer something along the same lines as the river inhabitants ....make them sit in the local municipal swimming and the whole town line up to shit and piss in it while the companies they were turning a blind eye to sneaked the odd bit of industrial waste on their heads Would you live stream it Fraise, or perhaps Market it as " Reality Tv"? .....'I'm in the shit, help me out" |
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Post by lordb on Jul 8, 2024 12:29:15 GMT
www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/07/sewage-spills-vote-winner-lib-dems-polluted-chalk-streams-england-chichesterA Vote winner, or Loser. In February the village green and pond at East Dean were covered in what residents described as sewage with a film of fungus. The stench was described as “overpowering”. The picturesque green was still cordoned off on Friday with signs warning that it was “unsafe for public access”. The disturbing plight of the Lavant and other rivers across the country – and the failure of the water companies to protect them – helped power the Liberal Democrats to win 71 seats on Thursday. The Liberal Democrat leader Ed Davey hailed the party’s success the “best results in a century”. I think proposing nationalising the water industry would be a clear vote winner now |
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Post by lordb on Jul 8, 2024 12:31:40 GMT
I'm really hoping this new Government is going to get a grip on this as they have promised in their Manifesto. We should all be keeping a close eye on this and making sure they go through with their policies and check whether they go far enough. Thanks for starting this thread. A very critical and under-represented issue imo. It will be difficult for Labour to be as useless as the Conservatives on this however long way to go before they can get pats on the back Suspect Labour will improve the situation but nowhere near enough |
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Post by frasier37 on Jul 8, 2024 13:10:38 GMT
"Hold them to account" we all know that means nothing Id prefer them to suffer something along the same lines as the river inhabitants ....make them sit in the local municipal swimming and the whole town line up to shit and piss in it while the companies they were turning a blind eye to sneaked the odd bit of industrial waste on their heads Would you live stream it Fraise, or perhaps Market it as " Reality Tv"? .....'I'm in the shit, help me out" either as long as it happened  |
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Post by spitthedog on Jul 8, 2024 13:18:39 GMT
I'm really hoping this new Government is going to get a grip on this as they have promised in their Manifesto. We should all be keeping a close eye on this and making sure they go through with their policies and check whether they go far enough. Thanks for starting this thread. A very critical and under-represented issue imo. It will be difficult for Labour to be as useless as the Conservatives on this however long way to go before they can get pats on the back Suspect Labour will improve the situation but nowhere near enough I'm just hoping that with this Government, if that is the case, then there might be more scope to exert pressure to consider going further. That is my hope anyway. |
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Post by frasier37 on Jul 8, 2024 14:49:40 GMT
The regulators say we have paid enough money over 30yrs to fix the problem.
So surely all that money should first be spent on fixing and upgrading before paying themselves out.
I know there's talk of being able to take them to court but all the evidence is there......they are seriously affecting public health
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 8, 2024 14:56:51 GMT
The regulators say we have paid enough money over 30yrs to fix the problem. So surely all that money should first be spent on fixing and upgrading before paying themselves out. I know there's talk of being able to take them to court but all the evidence is there......they are seriously affecting public health It's another case of ( virtually)" everyone" knows what's the right thing to do, but we don't do it.Those doing it and making a profit from it probably know that is wrong as well |
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Post by wannabee on Jul 8, 2024 15:23:39 GMT
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 8, 2024 15:42:21 GMT
Disgraceful Everything we seem to do is short termism |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jul 8, 2024 15:59:04 GMT
www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jul/07/sewage-spills-vote-winner-lib-dems-polluted-chalk-streams-england-chichesterA Vote winner, or Loser. In February the village green and pond at East Dean were covered in what residents described as sewage with a film of fungus. The stench was described as “overpowering”. The picturesque green was still cordoned off on Friday with signs warning that it was “unsafe for public access”. The disturbing plight of the Lavant and other rivers across the country – and the failure of the water companies to protect them – helped power the Liberal Democrats to win 71 seats on Thursday. The Liberal Democrat leader Ed Davey hailed the party’s success the “best results in a century”. "Hold them to account" we all know that means nothing Id prefer them to suffer something along the same lines as the river inhabitants ....make them sit in the local municipal swimming and the whole town line up to shit and piss in it while the companies they were turning a blind eye to sneaked the odd bit of industrial waste on their heads Heavy fines will be pointless because that will just be passed on to their customers. If it’s possible to stop them paying investors and share holder dividend then that must happen and the money diverted to infra structure. However that’s unlikely or impossible given that 71% of shares in England's nine privatised water companies are owned by organisations from overseas including the super-rich, banks, hedge funds, foreign governments and businesses based in tax havens. Bringing it into public ownership will be very expensive. Additionally Reeves commitment to building 1.5 million new homes will require big investment in sewage treatment plants as most are running at or often over capacity. If water companies are not forced to invest in more plants they won’t. They will see 1.5m new home a cash cow through water charges. I have personal experience of this being on our Parish Neighbourhood Plan Steering Group for last 9 years. Every single application for developments in our parish has never been objected by SW water even though our local sewage plant has been discharging raw sewage into the river Yealm for years through over capacity. |
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Post by frasier37 on Jul 8, 2024 16:32:31 GMT
"Hold them to account" we all know that means nothing Id prefer them to suffer something along the same lines as the river inhabitants ....make them sit in the local municipal swimming and the whole town line up to shit and piss in it while the companies they were turning a blind eye to sneaked the odd bit of industrial waste on their heads Heavy fines will be pointless because that will just be passed on to their customers. If it’s possible to stop them paying investors and share holder dividend then that must happen and the money diverted to infra structure. However that’s unlikely or impossible given that 71% of shares in England's nine privatised water companies are owned by organisations from overseas including the super-rich, banks, hedge funds, foreign governments and businesses based in tax havens. Bringing it into public ownership will be very expensive Public ownership has to be on the tabe tho Lawrie surely? No doubt very expensive but makes sense when you think of the consequences. But yeh, never gonna happen I agree |
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Post by frasier37 on Jul 9, 2024 8:18:10 GMT
Disgraceful Everything we seem to do is short termism The public go into a fury if they put 5p on a pint......the stuff like this that's going to put an end to us all.....nothing! and for me that's mainly down to the media not pushing the issue hard enough |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 9, 2024 8:18:46 GMT
Heavy fines will be pointless because that will just be passed on to their customers. If it’s possible to stop them paying investors and share holder dividend then that must happen and the money diverted to infra structure. However that’s unlikely or impossible given that 71% of shares in England's nine privatised water companies are owned by organisations from overseas including the super-rich, banks, hedge funds, foreign governments and businesses based in tax havens. Bringing it into public ownership will be very expensive Public ownership has to be on the tabe tho Lawrie surely? No doubt very expensive but makes sense when you think of the consequences. But yeh, never gonna happen I agree Public Ownership I'm afraid still isn't flavour of the month. It is difficult to talk about/ argue for some things until " the time is right".,....probably when it is too late |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 9, 2024 14:31:25 GMT
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Post by lordb on Jul 9, 2024 14:53:26 GMT
Public ownership has to be on the tabe tho Lawrie surely? No doubt very expensive but makes sense when you think of the consequences. But yeh, never gonna happen I agree Public Ownership I'm afraid still isn't flavour of the month. It is difficult to talk about/ argue for some things until " the time is right".,....probably when it is too late Imo, if only for water, rail and to an extent the energy companies, the public mood has moved significantly towards wanting Public Ownership The spectre of union power is long gone |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 9, 2024 15:00:19 GMT
Public Ownership I'm afraid still isn't flavour of the month. It is difficult to talk about/ argue for some things until " the time is right".,....probably when it is too late Imo, if only for water, rail and to an extent the energy companies, the public mood has moved significantly towards wanting Public Ownership The spectre of union power is long gone I hope you are right Lord, on reflection you might be. On unions, I wonder if there is any mileage in a " Delivery drivers' union" and a " call centre staff" union?. It seems that these are two sectors that have grown enormously, are possibly open to exploitation and consist of mainly repetitive tedious work on low pay...but are vital in the modern capitalist world? Apologies for going off topic. |
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Post by frasier37 on Jul 11, 2024 12:29:09 GMT
Water companies want a rise of £140 a year to be able continue....ofwat propose an increase of £19
Lock the fuckers up
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Post by lordb on Jul 11, 2024 21:47:58 GMT
Imo, if only for water, rail and to an extent the energy companies, the public mood has moved significantly towards wanting Public Ownership The spectre of union power is long gone I hope you are right Lord, on reflection you might be. On unions, I wonder if there is any mileage in a " Delivery drivers' union" and a " call centre staff" union?. It seems that these are two sectors that have grown enormously, are possibly open to exploitation and consist of mainly repetitive tedious work on low pay...but are vital in the modern capitalist world? Apologies for going off topic. There's no possibly about it Delivery drivers especially are exploited |
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we all know that means nothing
