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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 28, 2024 5:29:24 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Jun 28, 2024 6:14:57 GMT
The act doesn’t need reviewing. Just don’t allow a man who has not transitioned into a woman’s changing room. Simple. If necessary, provide a third space for the transitioning person to use temporarily to change if they feel uncomfortable in the men’s changing room.
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Post by Davef on Jun 28, 2024 9:12:10 GMT
"One of the nurses who has objected to the hospital's policy is a woman who was the victim of sexual abuse and says the presence of this trans colleague in an enclosed space triggers her PTSD.
Another of the women, Lisa Lockey, told Sky News: "We're just ordinary nurses. Is it too much to ask for a private changing room where you feel comfortable?"
Lisa says their ward manager was called into a meeting with HR and senior hospital bosses and told that the nurses needed to be "re-educated".
FFS.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2024 9:25:03 GMT
The act doesn’t need reviewing. Just don’t allow a man who has not transitioned into a woman’s changing room. Simple. If necessary, provide a third space for the transitioning person to use temporarily to change if they feel uncomfortable in the men’s changing room. Not hard, is it? Policy makers lack so much common sense.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jun 28, 2024 11:28:10 GMT
The act doesn’t need reviewing. Just don’t allow a man who has not transitioned into a woman’s changing room. Simple. If necessary, provide a third space for the transitioning person to use temporarily to change if they feel uncomfortable in the men’s changing room. Not hard, is it? Policy makers lack so much common sense. But as well as the women feeling uncomfortable, I imagine the transitioning person may feel awkward changing in front of men or women. And I am sure the last thing they would want is to make others feel uncomfortable, which in turn will make them feel worse. Loads of people are uncomfortable in changing rooms anyway because of body image issues. Treat people with dignity and if people need to get changed at work, provide cubicles. Then the issues disappears.
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Post by wannabee on Jun 28, 2024 12:05:16 GMT
The act doesn’t need reviewing. Just don’t allow a man who has not transitioned into a woman’s changing room. Simple. If necessary, provide a third space for the transitioning person to use temporarily to change if they feel uncomfortable in the men’s changing room. I don't disagree it could provide a solution but I'm not sure this works as the Act doesn't define sex as biological or indentify as. What you suggest under the Act a Trans person could claim to being discriminated against. Obviously the Nurses concerns are a sexual threat because the Trans person hasn't transitioned but there is no indication of the Trans persons sexual orientation Statistically in UK about 3% of Women indentify as Lesbian while 0.5% of Men identity as Trans and penetration can take different forms. And no i don't have a solution either
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Post by gawa on Jun 28, 2024 12:06:47 GMT
Make a third unisex room or something. Let men use men and women use women.
Even if someone has fully transitioned some may feel uncomfortable and there has to be controls in place imo.
It shouldn't be imposed on people especially in a place of work where they don't have a choice.
Also found this funny. 14 years in power to make a change and they say now:
"The Conservatives have said they would amend the Equality Act so that it is clear, in this context, that it only applies to biological sex."
With no disrespect intended towards the transexual community, I'm not a fan of them attaching themselves to left wing movements and making "left wing" all about LGBT movement.
I like to think I'm generally supportive of many things related to the movement. But a bit of common sense is also needed and we need to consider all people not just trans people. It feels like there are some very vocal LGBT people who attach themselves to the left and only care about pushing stuff through for themselves and their 1%. We need to think about the other 99% too.
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Post by fullmetaljacket on Jun 28, 2024 12:12:17 GMT
Can't we all live on equality street
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2024 12:19:20 GMT
Make a third unisex room or something. Let men use men and women use women. Even if someone has fully transitioned some may feel uncomfortable and there has to be controls in place imo. It shouldn't be imposed on people especially in a place of work where they don't have a choice. Also found this funny. 14 years in power to make a change and they say now: "The Conservatives have said they would amend the Equality Act so that it is clear, in this context, that it only applies to biological sex." With no disrespect intended towards the transexual community, I'm not a fan of them attaching themselves to left wing movements and making "left wing" all about LGBT movement. I like to think I'm generally supportive of many things related to the movement. But a bit of common sense is also needed and we need to consider all people not just trans people. It feels like there are some very vocal LGBT people who attach themselves to the left and only care about pushing stuff through for themselves and their 1%. We need to think about the other 99% too. “Make a third unisex room or something” The main issue of this is cost. Lots of small businesses can’t afford that and is revamping every hospital’s bathroom the best use of NHS funds?
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jun 28, 2024 12:26:00 GMT
You never really hear about 'transmen' do you, it's always 'transwomen', why is that? Why are there so few 'transmen' wanting access to mens toilets & changing rooms but there are so many 'transwomen' wanting access to womens & girls toilets & changing rooms?
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Post by gawa on Jun 28, 2024 12:28:18 GMT
Make a third unisex room or something. Let men use men and women use women. Even if someone has fully transitioned some may feel uncomfortable and there has to be controls in place imo. It shouldn't be imposed on people especially in a place of work where they don't have a choice. Also found this funny. 14 years in power to make a change and they say now: "The Conservatives have said they would amend the Equality Act so that it is clear, in this context, that it only applies to biological sex." With no disrespect intended towards the transexual community, I'm not a fan of them attaching themselves to left wing movements and making "left wing" all about LGBT movement. I like to think I'm generally supportive of many things related to the movement. But a bit of common sense is also needed and we need to consider all people not just trans people. It feels like there are some very vocal LGBT people who attach themselves to the left and only care about pushing stuff through for themselves and their 1%. We need to think about the other 99% too. “Make a third unisex room or something” The main issue of this is cost. Lots of small businesses can’t afford that and is revamping every hospital’s bathroom the best use of NHS funds? I agree but I don't think people should be forced to share changing rooms with trans people in a place of work. And I think that goes for pre and post op imo. Respect goes both ways and trans people need to recognise and respect some may feel uncomfortable. Financially its maybe not the best choice so then find an alternative. Get changed before or after or use a toilet or something. The best way for trans people to have a positive movement is to give the same respect to others that they want themselves. Years ago people may have also been uncomfortable sharing changing rooms with gay people but nowadays it's just normal. Change takes time and be expecting everyone to be comfortable and imposing yourself in people safe spaces will probably do more damage than good.
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Post by gawa on Jun 28, 2024 12:32:10 GMT
You never really hear about 'transmen' do you, it's always 'transwomen', why is that? Why are there so few 'transmen' wanting access to mens toilets & changing rooms but there are so many 'transwomen' wanting access to womens & girls toilets & changing rooms? I presume women are going to feel less safe around a stronger built transwoman who can overpower them than a man will feel around a trans man who doesn't pose any physical danger in terms of strength. We don't really have a male movement like we do for women either which speak out on male issues. So if it were a problem it likely wouldn't get same attention. But I just don't think men care as much either. Tbh it wouldn't bother me or make me anymore uncomfortable than some of the old cunts you see who want to dangle their ball sack in your face as they take 20 mins to dry themselves.
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Post by wannabee on Jun 28, 2024 12:36:17 GMT
Make a third unisex room or something. Let men use men and women use women. Even if someone has fully transitioned some may feel uncomfortable and there has to be controls in place imo. It shouldn't be imposed on people especially in a place of work where they don't have a choice. Also found this funny. 14 years in power to make a change and they say now: "The Conservatives have said they would amend the Equality Act so that it is clear, in this context, that it only applies to biological sex." With no disrespect intended towards the transexual community, I'm not a fan of them attaching themselves to left wing movements and making "left wing" all about LGBT movement. I like to think I'm generally supportive of many things related to the movement. But a bit of common sense is also needed and we need to consider all people not just trans people. It feels like there are some very vocal LGBT people who attach themselves to the left and only care about pushing stuff through for themselves and their 1%. We need to think about the other 99% too. Yep, the Conservatives are going to do a lot of things next time round they didn't get around to in the last 14 years Your stats are a bit off, just over 10% of people in UK identify as LGBTQ+ and many more who are not support that they should have equal human rights LGBTQ+ activists do tend to lobby more left wing Party's as it's an equalities issue. I'm quite certain people who identify as LGBTQ+ are equally represented in Left Right or Centre Party's. It's no different to Right Wing Activists are more likely to lobby Right Wing Party's.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 28, 2024 12:39:46 GMT
You never really hear about 'transmen' do you, it's always 'transwomen', why is that? Why are there so few 'transmen' wanting access to mens toilets & changing rooms but there are so many 'transwomen' wanting access to womens & girls toilets & changing rooms? Simply because the media focus on transwomen and not transmen.
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Post by gawa on Jun 28, 2024 13:08:28 GMT
Make a third unisex room or something. Let men use men and women use women. Even if someone has fully transitioned some may feel uncomfortable and there has to be controls in place imo. It shouldn't be imposed on people especially in a place of work where they don't have a choice. Also found this funny. 14 years in power to make a change and they say now: "The Conservatives have said they would amend the Equality Act so that it is clear, in this context, that it only applies to biological sex." With no disrespect intended towards the transexual community, I'm not a fan of them attaching themselves to left wing movements and making "left wing" all about LGBT movement. I like to think I'm generally supportive of many things related to the movement. But a bit of common sense is also needed and we need to consider all people not just trans people. It feels like there are some very vocal LGBT people who attach themselves to the left and only care about pushing stuff through for themselves and their 1%. We need to think about the other 99% too. Yep, the Conservatives are going to do a lot of things next time round they didn't get around to in the last 14 years Your stats are a bit off, just over 10% of people in UK identify as LGBTQ+ and many more who are not support that they should have equal human rights LGBTQ+ activists do tend to lobby more left wing Party's as it's an equalities issue. I'm quite certain people who identify as LGBTQ+ are equally represented in Left Right or Centre Party's. It's no different to Right Wing Activists are more likely to lobby Right Wing Party's. Not sure what the percentages are but on trans particular it's a small percentage. You're right they are represented in other parties but it's the left wing who get attacked for their "wokeness" and the media do their upmost to attach any LGBT stuff to the left wing. I actually think the only trans mp is a tory funnily enough too. The media/establishment just try to make out left wing is 50 genders, naked trans people reading kids nursery rhymes, just stop oil activists and basically any other slightly weird random story they can get their hands on to label as "woke left". It's much more than that but the message never gets it. The media want to attach all this other stuff to "left wing" because they know its divisive.
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Post by wannabee on Jun 28, 2024 13:43:21 GMT
Yep, the Conservatives are going to do a lot of things next time round they didn't get around to in the last 14 years Your stats are a bit off, just over 10% of people in UK identify as LGBTQ+ and many more who are not support that they should have equal human rights LGBTQ+ activists do tend to lobby more left wing Party's as it's an equalities issue. I'm quite certain people who identify as LGBTQ+ are equally represented in Left Right or Centre Party's. It's no different to Right Wing Activists are more likely to lobby Right Wing Party's. Not sure what the percentages are but on trans particular it's a small percentage. You're right they are represented in other parties but it's the left wing who get attacked for their "wokeness" and the media do their upmost to attach any LGBT stuff to the left wing. I actually think the only trans mp is a tory funnily enough too. The media/establishment just try to make out left wing is 50 genders, naked trans people reading kids nursery rhymes, just stop oil activists and basically any other slightly weird random story they can get their hands on to label as "woke left". It's much more than that but the message never gets it. The media want to attach all this other stuff to "left wing" because they know its divisive. Yes Trans is about 0.5% but LGBTQ+ is just over 10% Yes the only openly Trans MP ever was Conservative Jamie Wallis The media attack LGBTQ+ supporters who are mostly left leaning because in many people's eyes that enough to discredit the person and by extention any other views they may have. Not all left wing Party's are sympathetic to LGBTQ+ Community, Workers Party of GB Leader George Galloway is Homophobic as is his Party.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jun 28, 2024 15:43:22 GMT
The act doesn’t need reviewing. Just don’t allow a man who has not transitioned into a woman’s changing room. Simple. If necessary, provide a third space for the transitioning person to use temporarily to change if they feel uncomfortable in the men’s changing room. I don't disagree it could provide a solution but I'm not sure this works as the Act doesn't define sex as biological or indentify as. What you suggest under the Act a Trans person could claim to being discriminated against. Obviously the Nurses concerns are a sexual threat because the Trans person hasn't transitioned but there is no indication of the Trans persons sexual orientation Statistically in UK about 3% of Women indentify as Lesbian while 0.5% of Men identity as Trans and penetration can take different forms. And no i don't have a solution either I am aware of the ambiguity in the Act. I agree it is problematic and I also agree there is no solution that will satisfy everyone. Which is why my “solution” is to change rules elsewhere so that anyone who must get changed at work can have a private cubicle to do so if they wish or if they are transitioning. Really the laws need to be very clear at what point someone transitioning changes to the other gender. Ideally, you have changing rooms/toilets/shows for all which are divided into private cubicles. Can you imagine the political merry go round of amending the Equality Act for such a small proportion of the population to prevent them being discriminated against. It would be wall to wall culture wars. On the sexual threat point, I have never understood it. If someone wants to sexually assault a woman, they will do it. They could walk into a woman’s changing room and do it. They could even dress as a woman first. I think if someone is not put off by criminal laws prohibiting sexual assaults, then they are hardly going to be put off doing it because the sign on the door says “women only”. I don’t know. I have always found it odd. I wonder how many sexual assaults by transgender people have occurred in women’s changing rooms?
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Post by wannabee on Jun 28, 2024 16:22:41 GMT
I don't disagree it could provide a solution but I'm not sure this works as the Act doesn't define sex as biological or indentify as. What you suggest under the Act a Trans person could claim to being discriminated against. Obviously the Nurses concerns are a sexual threat because the Trans person hasn't transitioned but there is no indication of the Trans persons sexual orientation Statistically in UK about 3% of Women indentify as Lesbian while 0.5% of Men identity as Trans and penetration can take different forms. And no i don't have a solution either I am aware of the ambiguity in the Act. I agree it is problematic and I also agree there is no solution that will satisfy everyone. Which is why my “solution” is to change rules elsewhere so that anyone who must get changed at work can have a private cubicle to do so if they wish or if they are transitioning. Really the laws need to be very clear at what point someone transitioning changes to the other gender. Ideally, you have changing rooms/toilets/shows for all which are divided into private cubicles. Can you imagine the political merry go round of amending the Equality Act for such a small proportion of the population to prevent them being discriminated against. It would be wall to wall culture wars. On the sexual threat point, I have never understood it. If someone wants to sexually assault a woman, they will do it. They could walk into a woman’s changing room and do it. They could even dress as a woman first. I think if someone is not put off by criminal laws prohibiting sexual assaults, then they are hardly going to be put off doing it because the sign on the door says “women only”. I don’t know. I have always found it odd. I wonder how many sexual assaults by transgender people have occurred in women’s changing rooms? In many ways you have summed up the absurdity but without Laws idiots on either side of the argument exploit, compromise and reasonableness no longer exists. There isn't a perfect solution without huge expense as Cville says but the clarification in the Law proposed by Conservatives work for the Majority (I shall wash my mouth out now) Sometimes without a perfect solution you go with the overwhelming majority.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 28, 2024 16:43:59 GMT
I don't disagree it could provide a solution but I'm not sure this works as the Act doesn't define sex as biological or indentify as. What you suggest under the Act a Trans person could claim to being discriminated against. Obviously the Nurses concerns are a sexual threat because the Trans person hasn't transitioned but there is no indication of the Trans persons sexual orientation Statistically in UK about 3% of Women indentify as Lesbian while 0.5% of Men identity as Trans and penetration can take different forms. And no i don't have a solution either I am aware of the ambiguity in the Act. I agree it is problematic and I also agree there is no solution that will satisfy everyone. Which is why my “solution” is to change rules elsewhere so that anyone who must get changed at work can have a private cubicle to do so if they wish or if they are transitioning. Really the laws need to be very clear at what point someone transitioning changes to the other gender. Ideally, you have changing rooms/toilets/shows for all which are divided into private cubicles. Can you imagine the political merry go round of amending the Equality Act for such a small proportion of the population to prevent them being discriminated against. It would be wall to wall culture wars. On the sexual threat point, I have never understood it. If someone wants to sexually assault a woman, they will do it. They could walk into a woman’s changing room and do it. They could even dress as a woman first. I think if someone is not put off by criminal laws prohibiting sexual assaults, then they are hardly going to be put off doing it because the sign on the door says “women only”. I don’t know. I have always found it odd. I wonder how many sexual assaults by transgender people have occurred in women’s changing rooms? Correct, a sexual predator is a sexual predator whether they are male, transitioning or simply a man putting a dress on to access female spaces. The problem is of course a serious one but is so ridiculously overblown it's untrue, the sad thing is most trans people don't even participate in the debate they just want a quiet life and to be able to live true to themselves without negatively affecting others........
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