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Post by Gawa on May 27, 2024 8:47:22 GMT
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Post by Gods on May 27, 2024 8:49:36 GMT
Except its not what the headlines say. it's 25 days a year volunteering. The military places will be limited to 30k and you have to opt in to those, which you already can. Not what grandad thought. Oh yeah and the money is coming from the same social fund that keeps food banks open. GE bullshit aimed at pensioners to get out and vote for Rishi. Total unadulterated nonsense aimed to make people look anywhere but at the shitshow of the last 14 years. I know 'limited to 30k'. There are 750k 18 year olds. So as you say its a weekend volunteering scheme with 12 sessions in total. Why is no one discussing this point on the media? |
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Post by Gods on May 27, 2024 8:51:21 GMT
I just checked and there are 717,000 18 year olds in the UK. The scheme only has 30,000 places. So there is only a place for about 1 in 25 people. The other 687,000 18 year old will just have 12 unpaid weekends away doing volunteering stuff. Unless I'm missing something it's a nonsense. How does an 18 year old afford to have 12 unpaid weekends doing volunteering? The whole thing is a complete nonsense indeed Perhaps the scheme could be trialed on retirement first, see how it goes đ I know, the retired are the people with time on their hands and a triple lock on their pension! |
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Post by Gawa on May 27, 2024 8:52:12 GMT
Except its not what the headlines say. it's 25 days a year volunteering. The military places will be limited to 30k and you have to opt in to those, which you already can. Not what grandad thought. Oh yeah and the money is coming from the same social fund that keeps food banks open. GE bullshit aimed at pensioners to get out and vote for Rishi. Total unadulterated nonsense aimed to make people look anywhere but at the shitshow of the last 14 years. I know 'limited to 30k'. There are 750k 18 year olds. So as you say weekend volunteering scheme with 12 sessions in total. Why is no one discussing this point on the media? Are you supportive of young people volunteering their time for free? Would you support retired people also volunteering for free? Maybe 2 weekends a month as they have more free time. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on May 27, 2024 8:52:40 GMT
Meanwhile in other news, police are being to told to prioritise arrests as the court system is on it's knees and prisons are over subscribed.... |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2024 8:57:04 GMT
It's a great idea if it is modernised, suits the current state of the country and doesn't involve the military. I'm thinking of a service that provides help to the social care system, homelessness services and the NHS - breeding an up and coming society that has the skills, empathy and compassion for what is now fastly becoming a number of huge but increasingly silent issues in this country. Sadly there isn't a politician that is walking the streets of this country that would have the brains, drive or talent to deliver a service like that let alone even think of it. Itâs not a good idea. People should do whatever the fuck they want (legally) and not be forced to volunteer. Things should be funded properly and plans in place so the NHS doesnât need a single volunteer. So the army doesnât need a single conscript etc. If people want skills itâs easy enough to get them as it is. Go college, go uni, get a job, get an apprenticeship. Itâs all there. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on May 27, 2024 8:58:44 GMT
Would it be too much of a stretch to suggest those in prison deemed as non threatening to society to serve their term in the national service, thus freeing up prison space? Iâve just woke up and may have not thought this through properlyđ¤
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Post by iancransonsknees on May 27, 2024 9:03:41 GMT
Would it be too much of a stretch to suggest those in prison deemed as non threatening to society to serve their term in the national service, thus freeing up prison space? Iâve just woke up and may have not thought this through properlyđ¤ Makes sense to me, public service in lieu of incarceration. More room for the stabbers, aspiring doctors, lawyers, engineers, architects, musicians etc to serve full sentences then. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on May 27, 2024 9:07:53 GMT
Would it be too much of a stretch to suggest those in prison deemed as non threatening to society to serve their term in the national service, thus freeing up prison space? Iâve just woke up and may have not thought this through properlyđ¤ Sounds like a good idea. In relation to volunteering. Is it such a bad thing? Itâs good for the soul. Thereâs no better feeling than helping your fellow man. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2024 9:09:11 GMT
Would it be too much of a stretch to suggest those in prison deemed as non threatening to society to serve their term in the national service, thus freeing up prison space? Iâve just woke up and may have not thought this through properlyđ¤ Thereâs no need for a national service. Should people leaving prison have more support for them to reintegrate into society? Absolutely but that has nothing to do with this shit idea. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2024 9:09:47 GMT
Would it be too much of a stretch to suggest those in prison deemed as non threatening to society to serve their term in the national service, thus freeing up prison space? Iâve just woke up and may have not thought this through properlyđ¤ Sounds like a good idea. In relation to volunteering. Is it such a bad thing? Itâs good for the soul. Thereâs no better feeling than helping your fellow man. Itâs not volunteering if youâre being forced to fucking to do it 𤣠|
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on May 27, 2024 9:21:19 GMT
Sounds like a good idea. In relation to volunteering. Is it such a bad thing? Itâs good for the soul. Thereâs no better feeling than helping your fellow man. Itâs not volunteering if youâre being forced to fucking to do it 𤣠I guess it depends what the âvolunteeringâ is and that what Iâm trying to say is that some people donât need to be told to help others or contribute to society for nothing or no thanks. Over the last few years weâve lost a lot of community spirit and weâve become quite a selfish society where people are complaining because theyâre made to do good things rather than do them because itâs the right thing to do or out of kindness and without being asked. Itâs good for the soul you know. |
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Post by elystokie on May 27, 2024 9:22:18 GMT
Would it be too much of a stretch to suggest those in prison deemed as non threatening to society to serve their term in the national service, thus freeing up prison space? Iâve just woke up and may have not thought this through properlyđ¤ In the TV series where they did it (Bad Lads?) it seemed to work to a degree and I can see some value in it. From the Forces viewpoint it would be very difficult to manage and there's the added issue of the average reading age of prisoners being 11 years of age, a good number would need educating better before they'd be any use whatsoever in my view. I'm somewhat torn overall but it's certainly not the worst idea. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on May 27, 2024 9:23:21 GMT
Would it be too much of a stretch to suggest those in prison deemed as non threatening to society to serve their term in the national service, thus freeing up prison space? Iâve just woke up and may have not thought this through properlyđ¤ Thereâs no need for a national service. Should people leaving prison have more support for them to reintegrate into society? Absolutely but that has nothing to do with this shit idea. Merely suggesting a more palatable alternative to those who hate the idea of our law abiding youngsters doing it. As for volunteering it could be done as a way of some kind of scheme whereby there is an incentive at the end. Not financial but perhaps some kind of pathway into employment or training towards a vocation. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2024 9:23:36 GMT
Itâs not volunteering if youâre being forced to fucking to do it 𤣠I guess it depends what the âvolunteeringâ is and that what Iâm trying to say is some people donât need to be told to help others or contribute to society for nothing or no thanks. Over the last few years weâve lost a lot of community spirit and weâve become quite a selfish society where people are made to do nice things rather than do them because itâs the right thing to do or out of kindness without being asked. Itâs good for the soul you know. Because of austerity in the main cutting everything. This country needs to be funded properly. Thatâs about the long and the short of it. You shouldnât force people into volunteering. Itâs just a stupid idea . |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2024 9:25:17 GMT
Thereâs no need for a national service. Should people leaving prison have more support for them to reintegrate into society? Absolutely but that has nothing to do with this shit idea. Merely suggesting a more palatable alternative to those who hate the idea of our law abiding youngsters doing it. As for volunteering it could be done as a way of some kind of scheme whereby there is an incentive at the end. Not financial but perhaps some kind of pathway into employment or training towards a vocation. That happens anyway. Loads of kids do DofE and that has a volunteering aspect. I just donât think people understand how much kids actually do and just presume theyâre all little shits and it was better back in my day because itâs fucking lazy and itâs what theyâve been told. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on May 27, 2024 9:29:55 GMT
Merely suggesting a more palatable alternative to those who hate the idea of our law abiding youngsters doing it. As for volunteering it could be done as a way of some kind of scheme whereby there is an incentive at the end. Not financial but perhaps some kind of pathway into employment or training towards a vocation. That happens anyway. Loads of kids do DofE and that has a volunteering aspect. I just donât think people understand how much kids actually do and just presume theyâre all little shits and it was better back in my day because itâs fucking lazy and itâs what theyâve been told. Iâm not talking about kids who are employed or are at university here |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on May 27, 2024 9:30:35 GMT
I guess it depends what the âvolunteeringâ is and that what Iâm trying to say is some people donât need to be told to help others or contribute to society for nothing or no thanks. Over the last few years weâve lost a lot of community spirit and weâve become quite a selfish society where people are made to do nice things rather than do them because itâs the right thing to do or out of kindness without being asked. Itâs good for the soul you know. Because of austerity in the main cutting everything. This country needs to be funded properly. Thatâs about the long and the short of it. You shouldnât force people into volunteering. Itâs just a stupid idea . It isnât if theyâre not contributing in any other way. If youâve got someone whoâs doing nothing all week it might be just what they need to - build there self esteem - give them some work experience - Make them feel theyâre contributing - build friendships I think there has to be a happy balance where peopleâs circumstances are looked at however for those struggling or in a rut I donât think itâs a bad idea |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on May 27, 2024 9:32:02 GMT
Merely suggesting a more palatable alternative to those who hate the idea of our law abiding youngsters doing it. As for volunteering it could be done as a way of some kind of scheme whereby there is an incentive at the end. Not financial but perhaps some kind of pathway into employment or training towards a vocation. That happens anyway. Loads of kids do DofE and that has a volunteering aspect. I just donât think people understand how much kids actually do and just presume theyâre all little shits and it was better back in my day because itâs fucking lazy and itâs what theyâve been told. Theyâre generally kids between 14-16. This needs to be for young people between 18-24 for me. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2024 9:34:49 GMT
That happens anyway. Loads of kids do DofE and that has a volunteering aspect. I just donât think people understand how much kids actually do and just presume theyâre all little shits and it was better back in my day because itâs fucking lazy and itâs what theyâve been told. Iâm not talking about kids who are employed or are at university here Did you volunteer? Have you ever volunteered? Fair play if you have but personally speaking out of me and my mates I can think of one from 7/8 of us that have. I canât think of anyone in my family that has volunteered (past maybe a one off thing). We arenât selfish. It hasnât hindered us. I just think itâs bollocks. If people want to volunteer theyâll volunteer. If you want to solve social care issue, fund it properly. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2024 9:36:51 GMT
Because of austerity in the main cutting everything. This country needs to be funded properly. Thatâs about the long and the short of it. You shouldnât force people into volunteering. Itâs just a stupid idea . It isnât if theyâre not contributing in any other way. If youâve got someone whoâs doing nothing all week it might be just what they need to - build there self esteem - give them some work experience - Make them feel theyâre contributing - build friendships I think there has to be a happy balance where peopleâs circumstances are looked at however for those struggling or in a rut I donât think itâs a bad idea How many people is that though? Their* donât volunteer in a school! đ There should be paid mechanisms for those stuck in a rut etc. And quite frankly better mental health services to support that too. |
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Post by iancransonsknees on May 27, 2024 9:39:37 GMT
I guess it depends what the âvolunteeringâ is and that what Iâm trying to say is some people donât need to be told to help others or contribute to society for nothing or no thanks. Over the last few years weâve lost a lot of community spirit and weâve become quite a selfish society where people are made to do nice things rather than do them because itâs the right thing to do or out of kindness without being asked. Itâs good for the soul you know. Because of austerity in the main cutting everything. This country needs to be funded properly. Thatâs about the long and the short of it. You shouldnât force people into volunteering. Itâs just a stupid idea . I worked in the third sector for 10 years, there are massive barriers to volunteering, not least the actual ability, capability and training needs required - nevermind funding. I'd suggest if people don't want to volunteer that's on them, you'll only get people to do something for nothing if they're actually interested in it or there's something in it for them. People are inherently selfish, that's human nature. Making it a condition of reintroduction of EMA, student grants and free transit passes I'd suggest is worth consideration. I've got a nephew and cousin who are both the same age, doing 3 days a week at college, one in bench joinery and the other in animal management. The joiner does his 3 days and that's it, no part time job etc. The farmer volunteers 2 days at an animal welfare centre setting up in Holmes Chapel. His old dears have to chauffeur him there and back, he doesn't get paid and there's no evidence of a job anytime soon, but he enjoys it. They're effectively subsidising that centre, who's not for profit bosses will be taking a reasonable wage themselves. I'm not sure what I'd do in either of their situations but there's got to be a balance between motivation and reward for effort at the end of the day. In all honesty at their age I'd have benefitted from having some direction whether it was the forces route or public service route. I was their age under the oft-feted initial Blair/Brown first term and all I got offered was a pretty pointless college and university education with little guidance or support. It'd have made a difference in my decision making if I'd had a route into experience of the real world before landing myself on a pointless degree for 3 years. |
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on May 27, 2024 9:44:41 GMT
Iâm not talking about kids who are employed or are at university here Did you volunteer? Have you ever volunteered? Fair play if you have but personally speaking out of me and my mates I can think of one from 7/8 of us that have. I canât think of anyone in my family that has volunteered (past maybe a one off thing). We arenât selfish. It hasnât hindered us. I just think itâs bollocks. If people want to volunteer theyâll volunteer. If you want to solve social care issue, fund it properly. And thatâs the problem leave it to some other sod to do. I have volunteered and still do and know plenty that do whether itâs helping at the local youth club or boxing gym or down at the local care home. As youâd expect none of them get paid. They simply do it because they want to give something back to the community. One of themâs well into their 80s too. If they all had the attitude of not being arsed a lot of the places they volunteer would be closed. Itâs a struggle to get volunteers as it is so I donât see the harm of making âsomeâ help out. Weâre all guilty of it and Iâve often thought that the amount of time I spend on here moaning could be better spent doing something else more productive locally. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2024 9:49:00 GMT
Because of austerity in the main cutting everything. This country needs to be funded properly. Thatâs about the long and the short of it. You shouldnât force people into volunteering. Itâs just a stupid idea . I worked in the third sector for 10 years, there are massive barriers to volunteering, not least the actual ability, capability and training needs required - nevermind funding. I'd suggest if people don't want to volunteer that's on them, you'll only get people to do something for nothing if they're actually interested in it or there's something in it for them. People are inherently selfish, that's human nature. Making it a condition of reintroduction of EMA, student grants and free transit passes I'd suggest is worth consideration. I've got a nephew and cousin who are both the same age, doing 3 days a week at college, one in bench joinery and the other in animal management. The joiner does his 3 days and that's it, no part time job etc. The farmer volunteers 2 days at an animal welfare centre setting up in Holmes Chapel. His old dears have to chauffeur him there and back, he doesn't get paid and there's no evidence of a job anytime soon, but he enjoys it. They're effectively subsidising that centre, who's not for profit bosses will be taking a reasonable wage themselves. I'm not sure what I'd do in either of their situations but there's got to be a balance between motivation and reward for effort at the end of the day. In all honesty at their age I'd have benefitted from having some direction whether it was the forces route or public service route. I was their age under the oft-feted initial Blair/Brown first term and all I got offered was a pretty pointless college and university education with little guidance or support. It'd have made a difference in my decision making if I'd had a route into experience of the real world before landing myself on a pointless degree for 3 years. Iâve always loved academic subjects so was fine at school and throughout tbh and it wasnât until recently whilst speaking to a colleague of mine that I fully understood how difficult school must be for anyone that isnât. Not that I needed to or anything but Iâd never thought about it. I havenât had to. AnywayâŚher son just isnât interested in learning about the conventional subjects at school and as such just doesnât engage, he isnât a bad kid but will do daft (often really funny sounding things tbh) tans will get called out for it by the teachers. But theres no route for these kids before the age of 16 to do something that will interest them. There needs to be more vocational options at school. Everyone imo should do maths, English and science and probably computing now. But other than that? I think it needs to be tailored to everyone. Heâs going to college to do automotive engineering and youâve just got to hope that itâs something he loves and he wonât take the apathy of learning he will have gained from doing stuff he has no interest in for the last 5 years into that. Thereâs much bigger issues than forcing people to volunteer. And again, forcing people to do anything they donât like just makes them resent it. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2024 9:52:32 GMT
Did you volunteer? Have you ever volunteered? Fair play if you have but personally speaking out of me and my mates I can think of one from 7/8 of us that have. I canât think of anyone in my family that has volunteered (past maybe a one off thing). We arenât selfish. It hasnât hindered us. I just think itâs bollocks. If people want to volunteer theyâll volunteer. If you want to solve social care issue, fund it properly. And thatâs the problem leave it to some other sod to do. I have volunteered and still do and know plenty that do whether itâs helping at the local youth club or boxing gym or down at the local care home. As youâd expect none of them get paid. They simply do it because they want to give something back to the community. One of themâs well into their 80s too. If they all had the attitude of not being arsed a lot of the places they volunteer would be closed. Itâs a struggle to get volunteers as it is so I donât see the harm of making âsomeâ help out. Weâre all guilty of it and Iâve often thought that the amount of time I spend on here moaning could be better spent doing something else more productive locally. Itâs not a problem. Itâs our choice. Iâd absolutely expect them to get paid. It should be paid. I think itâs a sign of a failed society that shit like that isnât paid. Having time for yourself isnât selfish. |
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Post by Gawa on May 27, 2024 10:29:15 GMT
As a socialist i do believe the volunteering part isnt neccesarily a bad idea but:
- It shouldn't be Ageist and targeted at young people.
- It shouldnt be used as a way to cut our public services further.
- Those doing it who aren't claiming any form of benefit AND in work should he compensated in some form for their time. Or even excluded.
- Should be focused more at the economically inactive. Whether it's people looking for work or those retiring early.
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Post by iancransonsknees on May 27, 2024 10:53:09 GMT
I worked in the third sector for 10 years, there are massive barriers to volunteering, not least the actual ability, capability and training needs required - nevermind funding. I'd suggest if people don't want to volunteer that's on them, you'll only get people to do something for nothing if they're actually interested in it or there's something in it for them. People are inherently selfish, that's human nature. Making it a condition of reintroduction of EMA, student grants and free transit passes I'd suggest is worth consideration. I've got a nephew and cousin who are both the same age, doing 3 days a week at college, one in bench joinery and the other in animal management. The joiner does his 3 days and that's it, no part time job etc. The farmer volunteers 2 days at an animal welfare centre setting up in Holmes Chapel. His old dears have to chauffeur him there and back, he doesn't get paid and there's no evidence of a job anytime soon, but he enjoys it. They're effectively subsidising that centre, who's not for profit bosses will be taking a reasonable wage themselves. I'm not sure what I'd do in either of their situations but there's got to be a balance between motivation and reward for effort at the end of the day. In all honesty at their age I'd have benefitted from having some direction whether it was the forces route or public service route. I was their age under the oft-feted initial Blair/Brown first term and all I got offered was a pretty pointless college and university education with little guidance or support. It'd have made a difference in my decision making if I'd had a route into experience of the real world before landing myself on a pointless degree for 3 years. Iâve always loved academic subjects so was fine at school and throughout tbh and it wasnât until recently whilst speaking to a colleague of mine that I fully understood how difficult school must be for anyone that isnât. Not that I needed to or anything but Iâd never thought about it. I havenât had to. AnywayâŚher son just isnât interested in learning about the conventional subjects at school and as such just doesnât engage, he isnât a bad kid but will do daft (often really funny sounding things tbh) tans will get called out for it by the teachers. But theres no route for these kids before the age of 16 to do something that will interest them. There needs to be more vocational options at school. Everyone imo should do maths, English and science and probably computing now. But other than that? I think it needs to be tailored to everyone. Heâs going to college to do automotive engineering and youâve just got to hope that itâs something he loves and he wonât take the apathy of learning he will have gained from doing stuff he has no interest in for the last 5 years into that. Thereâs much bigger issues than forcing people to volunteer. And again, forcing people to do anything they donât like just makes them resent it. Hugely agree with that. Farmer's dad is exactly as you describe, he's beyond practical when it comes to engineering and mechanics but suffers from severe dyslexia, as does the farmer. It needs to be seen as an opportunity for people to find their right path into something they are genuinely bothered about and interested in, not just foisted on them and if the suitable position isn't there, they're just shuffled off elsewhere. That's just school work experience by another name. |
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2024 11:37:03 GMT
That happens anyway. Loads of kids do DofE and that has a volunteering aspect. I just donât think people understand how much kids actually do and just presume theyâre all little shits and it was better back in my day because itâs fucking lazy and itâs what theyâve been told. Theyâre generally kids between 14-16. This needs to be for young people between 18-24 for me. 18-24? How about 18-84? There are plenty of people of all ages without direction. There are plenty of people who believe that their weekends should be spent drinking in pubs. Get the lot of them out there and volunteering. |
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Post by OldStokie on May 27, 2024 11:38:16 GMT
It's a complex issue with some good points and some bad. But whatever, does anyone seriously think a Tory government could organise it properly and make it attractive for those taking up the offers? They couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery never mind something so complex as this idea. And what's going to happen to those who don't want to volunteer for anything? Many students work weekends just to earn a bob or two to see them through college or uni.
And how many real forces personnel are they going to need to do the training if they decide to carry the volunteer forces recruitment through? The professional forces bods are already needed for the defence of the realm without making them train raw recruits in just the basics. It takes 4 months (full time) in the regular army just to learn how to make their beds properly, never mind training them for modern warfare. This isn't the 1930's/40's where most conscripts were trained to be basic fodder like most of the Russian lot are now. As the top brass military guy said... "It's bonkers."
The same facets of what I said could also apply to the NHS, Fire Service, and Police.
And finally, I can see a point where the voluntary part becomes compulsory without financial reward of any kind. Even those old sods who had to do National Service and support this scheme got paid to do it. As Bayern says above, anyone taking part should be well paid to do it whatever scheme they decided to 'volunteer' for. But instead of it costing 2.5 billion a year, you can quadruple that sum if it was to be done properly.
It ain't gonna happen.
OS.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2024 11:58:39 GMT
Theyâre generally kids between 14-16. This needs to be for young people between 18-24 for me. 18-24? How about 18-84? There are plenty of people of all ages without direction. There are plenty of people who believe that their weekends should be spent drinking in pubs. Get the lot of them out there and volunteering. But the young people are the problem and it wasnât like that in their day. |
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