|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on May 26, 2024 13:03:37 GMT
I think it's one of the best initiatives they've come up with but it's all too late. People seem to be mocking the idea but given we are as close to a third world war as we've ever been and factoring in the chronic shortage of military personnel in the UK, I'm not quite sure why. It's a shit draconian idea from a government that clearly wants to lose the election. Most nations around the world have some form of national service. It's not draconian at all.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on May 26, 2024 13:12:10 GMT
I think Northern Ireland would have to be made exempt to. Imagine telling all the 18 year olds in Derry that they've got to serve in the British Army for a year! They haven't really thought this through, have they? 🤦♂️ There are about 720,000 18 year olds in the UK at any one time and the armed forces are only offering 30k places. The other 690k will have to find this compulsory/volunteering for 25 days a year somewhere else. I nearly spat my tea out when Cleverley suggested they might be special constables or first responders. Christ alive, he didn't did he? 🤦♂️
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on May 26, 2024 13:12:56 GMT
I think it's one of the best initiatives they've come up with but it's all too late. People seem to be mocking the idea but given we are as close to a third world war as we've ever been and factoring in the chronic shortage of military personnel in the UK, I'm not quite sure why. As close as the Cuban missile crisis? Or Andropov pushing the button re Operation Archer? Hyperbolic nonsense Let's not forget the reason national service was binned was because the armed forces didn't want it You're being painfully ignorant and it's as if you're either under a rock or not following international developments over the past couple of years. Europe is literally a stone's throw away from war with Russia, China and Taiwan is on a knife edge, the Middle East is up in flames, Iran is edging closer to war, the UN is divided and the US is as polarised as its ever been. Nato itself could fall apart if Trump (quite rightly) doesn't feel other nations are contributing what they should be. Meanwhile both former and current UK military chiefs have highlighted on multiple occasions their concern at how unprepared the UK is for war. Dismiss the UK entering a war within the next decade at your peril.
|
|
|
Post by superjw on May 26, 2024 14:01:53 GMT
An idea championed by the very generation of people who never had to face into national service or forms of conscription in any way.
Forgetting the armed forces side, who on earth can afford to volunteer? It isn’t free to actually do it.
If anyone was to be mandated to volunteer it should be those currently retired with their nice pensions funded by today’s youth and working population. Let them lead the way whilst the rest of us think how we will scrape a living…
|
|
|
Post by GrahamHyde on May 26, 2024 14:32:53 GMT
Will be interesting to see what happens with the youth vote this time. There's an argument that turnout could be higher than expected as they want to make their voices heard following Brexit. The youngster votes were heard during Brexit. Contrary to original opinion the turnout of young voters for the Brexit referendum was surprisingly high. Yes, definitely, but I'm talking more about those who are now eligible to vote who would have been 14-17 years old in 2019.
|
|
|
Post by GrahamHyde on May 26, 2024 14:36:05 GMT
Will be interesting to see what happens with the youth vote this time. There's an argument that turnout could be higher than expected as they want to make their voices heard following Brexit. Labour is polling worse at every age group under 30 compared to 2017. The Duopoly vote (Labour + tory) is also lower at every age group too. People are moving away from the 2 main parties. And compared to 2019? 2017 was the Tory minority with DUP 'coalition', right? If so then better to compare how Tories are doing relative to Labour against that vote - I'd imagine worse? Corbyn was very popular in 2017 and galvanised the youth vote, meanwhile May had a campaign she seemed determined to want to lose.
|
|
|
Post by andystokey on May 26, 2024 14:42:55 GMT
There are about 720,000 18 year olds in the UK at any one time and the armed forces are only offering 30k places. The other 690k will have to find this compulsory/volunteering for 25 days a year somewhere else. I nearly spat my tea out when Cleverley suggested they might be special constables or first responders. Christ alive, he didn't did he? 🤦♂️ The list also included on call firefighters 🤣 they need a minimum of 25 days training and specials 20 days training so that's your time up right there. The idea of an 18 year old doing one weekend a month turning up to a rural farming accident as a first responder is just bizarre.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on May 26, 2024 14:48:00 GMT
The youngster votes were heard during Brexit. Contrary to original opinion the turnout of young voters for the Brexit referendum was surprisingly high. Yes, definitely, but I'm talking more about those who are now eligible to vote who would have been 14-17 years old in 2019. Indeed these are the same kids who missed 18 months of schooling, whilst being locked up in their bedrooms due to having to adhere to covid lock-downs. It would appear to me, that they've already had to 'serve' their country once enough already! These kids must think that the Tories actually hate them.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 26, 2024 14:50:18 GMT
Christ alive, he didn't did he? 🤦♂️ The lust also included on call firefighters 🤣 they need a minimum of 25 days training and specials 20 days training so that's your time up right there. The idea of an 18 year old doing one weekend a month turning up to a rural farming accident as a first responder is just bizarre. It’s not just bizarre, it’s dangerous. You need specialists showing up to emergency situations. You don’t need a young kid standing there and getting in the way because they’ve been thrown in to the deep end.
|
|
|
Post by gawa on May 26, 2024 15:02:56 GMT
Labour is polling worse at every age group under 30 compared to 2017. The Duopoly vote (Labour + tory) is also lower at every age group too. People are moving away from the 2 main parties. And compared to 2019? 2017 was the Tory minority with DUP 'coalition', right? If so then better to compare how Tories are doing relative to Labour against that vote - I'd imagine worse? Corbyn was very popular in 2017 and galvanised the youth vote, meanwhile May had a campaign she seemed determined to want to lose. Doesn't really make a difference does it? 2019 was also based of a smear campaign and lies unless you believe Jeremy Corbyn is antisemetic, do you? Keir Starmer has overseen more jewish people evicted from the Labour party in history. The only difference is the establishment, media and elite aren't plastering our TV screens and newspapers by telling us he's an antisemite. Ask a labour supporter in 2017/2019 why they're voting labour and you were provided a list of policies they were voting for. 12 pages deep in this thread and the only reason I've read is to StOp ThE tOrIeS. 12.25% of the electorate voted for Corbyn in the 2018 Local Elections (35% of vote from 35% turnout). Starmers best result is 11.76% of the electorate in 2018 ( 35% of vote from 33.6% turnout). Since 2017 local election turnout has dropped year on year (for every year I can find an overall turnout). 2017 - 35.3%. 2018 - 35%, 2022 - 33.6%, 2023 - 32%. But anyway let's pretend we are all in a parallel universe instead. People are really super inspired by Starmer and they're turning out in their thousands to show their support for him all over their country. His supporters are all providing a lengthy list of reasons to vote for him rather than ressons not to vote for his opposition. He's up against a strong tory party fighting to take back our sovereignty. Despite the media and establishment being opposed to starmer he's magically got his message through and labour membership is through the roof with people inspired and thousands of young people now engaged in politics. And Farage is so scared of Starmer he's actually barely searing any reform/ukip/brexit candidates across the country to prevent the right wing vote being split.
|
|
|
Post by gawa on May 26, 2024 15:12:00 GMT
Just another Labour MP with 9 years experience prevented from standing for the party against the wishes of the local CLP.
His crime? He said "f**King israel".
Wonder which multi millionaire or private healthcare boss will be parachuted into this seat?
Labour - for the few not the many.
|
|
|
Post by andystokey on May 26, 2024 15:12:45 GMT
And compared to 2019? 2017 was the Tory minority with DUP 'coalition', right? If so then better to compare how Tories are doing relative to Labour against that vote - I'd imagine worse? Corbyn was very popular in 2017 and galvanised the youth vote, meanwhile May had a campaign she seemed determined to want to lose. Doesn't really make a difference does it? 2019 was also based of a smear campaign and lies unless you believe Jeremy Corbyn is antisemetic, do you? Keir Starmer has overseen more jewish people evicted from the Labour party in history. The only difference is the establishment, media and elite aren't plastering our TV screens and newspapers by telling us he's an antisemite. Ask a labour supporter in 2017/2019 why they're voting labour and you were provided a list of policies they were voting for. 12 pages deep in this thread and the only reason I've read is to StOp ThE tOrIeS. 12.25% of the electorate voted for Corbyn in the 2018 Local Elections (35% of vote from 35% turnout). Starmers best result is 11.76% of the electorate in 2018 ( 35% of vote from 33.6% turnout). Since 2017 local election turnout has dropped year on year (for every year I can find an overall turnout). 2017 - 35.3%. 2018 - 35%, 2022 - 33.6%, 2023 - 32%. But anyway let's pretend we are all in a parallel universe instead. People are really super inspired by Starmer and they're turning out in their thousands to show their support for him all over their country. His supporters are all providing a lengthy list of reasons to vote for him rather than ressons not to vote for his opposition. He's up against a strong tory party fighting to take back our sovereignty. Despite the media and establishment being opposed to starmer he's magically got his message through and labour membership is through the roof with people inspired and thousands of young people now engaged in politics. And Farage is so scared of Starmer he's actually barely searing any reform/ukip/brexit candidates across the country to prevent the right wing vote being split. I have a lot of sympathy for your PoV but sadly when the system is as loaded as FPtP is there is always only one option and that option is always to vote for the person you hate least. I've been to many elections in my lifetime and realised the powerful lose no sleep over a spoiled ballot, or a stay at home electorate, they actually rely on it. The political classes stopped worrying about pleasing anyone but swing constituencies a long time ago. A few thousand people decide all GEs.
|
|
|
Post by lordb on May 26, 2024 16:20:01 GMT
As close as the Cuban missile crisis? Or Andropov pushing the button re Operation Archer? Hyperbolic nonsense Let's not forget the reason national service was binned was because the armed forces didn't want it You're being painfully ignorant and it's as if you're either under a rock or not following international developments over the past couple of years. Europe is literally a stone's throw away from war with Russia, China and Taiwan is on a knife edge, the Middle East is up in flames, Iran is edging closer to war, the UN is divided and the US is as polarised as its ever been. Nato itself could fall apart if Trump (quite rightly) doesn't feel other nations are contributing what they should be. Meanwhile both former and current UK military chiefs have highlighted on multiple occasions their concern at how unprepared the UK is for war. Dismiss the UK entering a war within the next decade at your peril. It's definitely a dangerous time but you said 'as close to world war 3 as we have ever been' Simply not true not by a long way However are the conditions there for things to get worse, yes looks that way Would national service help in any way, nope. Thats why it was binned, the armed forces didn't want it If we are going to spend money on the armed forces it should be on tangible stuff like aircraft carriers, drones, fighter jets and even simple stuff like proper kit for our fighting men and women Having reluctant teenagers wasting their time and the militarys time is just nonsense
|
|
|
Post by scfcbiancorossi on May 26, 2024 16:27:47 GMT
You're being painfully ignorant and it's as if you're either under a rock or not following international developments over the past couple of years. Europe is literally a stone's throw away from war with Russia, China and Taiwan is on a knife edge, the Middle East is up in flames, Iran is edging closer to war, the UN is divided and the US is as polarised as its ever been. Nato itself could fall apart if Trump (quite rightly) doesn't feel other nations are contributing what they should be. Meanwhile both former and current UK military chiefs have highlighted on multiple occasions their concern at how unprepared the UK is for war. Dismiss the UK entering a war within the next decade at your peril. It's definitely a dangerous time but you said 'as close to world war 3 as we have ever been' Simply not true not by a long way However are the conditions there for things to get worse, yes looks that way Would national service help in any way, nope. Thats why it was binned, the armed forces didn't want it If we are going to spend money on the armed forces it should be on tangible stuff like aircraft carriers, drones, fighter jets and even simple stuff like proper kit for our fighting men and women Having reluctant teenagers wasting their time and the militarys time is just nonsense Well I agree that we should be investing in current armed forces as well. Our lack of investment on existing military personnel over the past 15 years is scandalous.
|
|
|
Post by lordb on May 26, 2024 16:33:17 GMT
It's definitely a dangerous time but you said 'as close to world war 3 as we have ever been' Simply not true not by a long way However are the conditions there for things to get worse, yes looks that way Would national service help in any way, nope. Thats why it was binned, the armed forces didn't want it If we are going to spend money on the armed forces it should be on tangible stuff like aircraft carriers, drones, fighter jets and even simple stuff like proper kit for our fighting men and women Having reluctant teenagers wasting their time and the militarys time is just nonsense Well I agree that we should be investing in current armed forces as well. Our lack of investment on existing military personnel over the past 15 years is scandalous. We should also move away from blindly supporting the Israeli genocide However neither Sunak nor Starmer will do this Sunak looks especially feeble when he's on the international stage be very difficult for Starmer not to look more assured
|
|
|
Post by flea79 on May 26, 2024 16:55:07 GMT
Always reminds me of the line in yes prime minister when he wants to bring back national service, “we will give them a comprehensive education to make up for the one they have just had”
I would vote for Jim Hacker
|
|
|
Post by gawa on May 26, 2024 16:55:53 GMT
Doesn't really make a difference does it? 2019 was also based of a smear campaign and lies unless you believe Jeremy Corbyn is antisemetic, do you? Keir Starmer has overseen more jewish people evicted from the Labour party in history. The only difference is the establishment, media and elite aren't plastering our TV screens and newspapers by telling us he's an antisemite. Ask a labour supporter in 2017/2019 why they're voting labour and you were provided a list of policies they were voting for. 12 pages deep in this thread and the only reason I've read is to StOp ThE tOrIeS. 12.25% of the electorate voted for Corbyn in the 2018 Local Elections (35% of vote from 35% turnout). Starmers best result is 11.76% of the electorate in 2018 ( 35% of vote from 33.6% turnout). Since 2017 local election turnout has dropped year on year (for every year I can find an overall turnout). 2017 - 35.3%. 2018 - 35%, 2022 - 33.6%, 2023 - 32%. But anyway let's pretend we are all in a parallel universe instead. People are really super inspired by Starmer and they're turning out in their thousands to show their support for him all over their country. His supporters are all providing a lengthy list of reasons to vote for him rather than ressons not to vote for his opposition. He's up against a strong tory party fighting to take back our sovereignty. Despite the media and establishment being opposed to starmer he's magically got his message through and labour membership is through the roof with people inspired and thousands of young people now engaged in politics. And Farage is so scared of Starmer he's actually barely searing any reform/ukip/brexit candidates across the country to prevent the right wing vote being split. I have a lot of sympathy for your PoV but sadly when the system is as loaded as FPtP is there is always only one option and that option is always to vote for the person you hate least. I've been to many elections in my lifetime and realised the powerful lose no sleep over a spoiled ballot, or a stay at home electorate, they actually rely on it. The political classes stopped worrying about pleasing anyone but swing constituencies a long time ago. A few thousand people decide all GEs. The way I see it is we are heading towards a labour majority and the tories are old news. Having closely followed the Labour party, I'm not too convinced they're going to make the radical changes we need either and I feel they closely resemble the Cameron administration which started off this sorry mess. I support Green/Workers/Socialist independants, I don't want people to stay home or spoil votes. FPTP makes it harder, not impossible. 14 years ago the SNP had a handful of MPs, they now are the largest party in Scotland getting 50 odd. 5 years ago the duopoly had over 2600 more councillors than they have today between them. The mindset that it is one or the other is what enables FPTP to succeed. We should look at Scotland and local elections and realise that other candidates can win and have won. If we continue to vote for the duopoly then we are part of the problem enabling FPTP. You aren't going to force change by playing into their hands. To me this labour party is the most tory lite labour party I've witnessed in my lifetime and I think it is critical to speak out about it. I'm astonished by the sheer amount of short sightedness by some who think no further than "get the tories out". Then what? Then do we critique the incumbent government when we can't do anything about it for half a decade?
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on May 26, 2024 17:05:02 GMT
Always reminds me of the line in yes prime minister when he wants to bring back national service, “we will give them a comprehensive education to make up for the one they have just had” I would vote for Jim Hacker Just perfect ...
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on May 26, 2024 17:12:43 GMT
Always reminds me of the line in yes prime minister when he wants to bring back national service, “we will give them a comprehensive education to make up for the one they have just had” I would vote for Jim Hacker Just perfect ... I watched a load back recently, still as relevant today as they were back then.............
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on May 26, 2024 19:18:14 GMT
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on May 26, 2024 19:28:56 GMT
Great representation of London’s youth there👍🏻
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on May 26, 2024 19:30:34 GMT
Great representation of London’s youth there👍🏻
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on May 26, 2024 19:32:56 GMT
Great representation of London’s youth there👍🏻 Hang on, I’m just going to look for your marbles. Back in a bit
|
|
|
Post by mickeythemaestro on May 26, 2024 19:52:40 GMT
Great representation of London’s youth there👍🏻 And labour want 16 year olds to vote. Make it all make sense 🤔
|
|
|
Post by gawa on May 26, 2024 20:02:17 GMT
And labour want 16 year olds to vote. Make it all make sense 🤔 The more alarming thing is those of unfit mental capacity can still vote. Don't get me wrong I loved my granny but don't think someone who thinks a hoover is a lawnmower should be voting.
|
|
|
Post by thehartshillbadger on May 26, 2024 20:05:20 GMT
And labour want 16 year olds to vote. Make it all make sense 🤔 The more alarming thing is those of unfit mental capacity can still vote. Don't get me wrong I loved my granny but don't think someone who thinks a hoover is a lawnmower should be voting. Sounds like most teens to be fair. I was burning some wood last night in the fire pit and we’d run out of wood. I jokingly asked my mrs’ 15 year old daughter to chop the tree down across the way. Her response was “why? Are trees made of wood?”
|
|
|
Post by mickeythemaestro on May 26, 2024 20:11:37 GMT
And labour want 16 year olds to vote. Make it all make sense 🤔 The more alarming thing is those of unfit mental capacity can still vote. Don't get me wrong I loved my granny but don't think someone who thinks a hoover is a lawnmower should be voting. The push for a 16 year old vote is fucking embarrassing. When I was 16 as were you probably I didn't know my left foot from my right foot, let alone what politics was. And I look very closely to any adult condoning this shyte. They all know yet I see idiotic politicians condoning this bollox. They are liars and we all know it. Challenge me cos I know.... not you but anyone else. Debate me....
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on May 26, 2024 20:14:24 GMT
Hang on, I’m just going to look for your marbles. Back in a bit And that was the old chap speaking ...
|
|
|
Post by gawa on May 26, 2024 20:32:54 GMT
The more alarming thing is those of unfit mental capacity can still vote. Don't get me wrong I loved my granny but don't think someone who thinks a hoover is a lawnmower should be voting. The push for a 16 year old vote is fucking embarrassing. When I was 16 as were you probably I didn't know my left foot from my right foot, let alone what politics was. And I look very closely to any adult condoning this shyte. They all know yet I see idiotic politicians condoning this bollox. They are liars and we all know it. Challenge me cos I know.... not you but anyone else. Debate me.... You're entitled to that opinion but I just don't see it as big a concern for me. Like did you know much about politics at 18 compared to what you knew at 16? I've raised my concerns in relation to expats voting. If I had to choose between them and a 17 year old. I'd pick the 17 year old, who will be 22 by the time the governments term ends, to vote. Young people tend to have lower turnouts so I think those disinterested likely wouldn't vote. I'd be more concerned about family taking advantage by influencing or coercing them to vote a particular way. But then I have that same concern with young adults and the mentally incapacitated too.
|
|
|
Post by henry on May 26, 2024 20:39:10 GMT
It's a shit draconian idea from a government that clearly wants to lose the election. Most nations around the world have some form of national service. It's not draconian at all. Who ?
|
|