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Post by scfcno1fan on Apr 16, 2024 21:34:43 GMT
So...someone today who is 15 will never be able to buy cigs, but someone who is 16 will... In 30 years the 15 yr old is 45, and still cant buy cigs, yet the now 46 yr old still can...Will they be ID checking everyone then that buys cigs in the future. Eventually as the people allowed to smoke dwindles each year production will cease. I can just see in say 80 years time, when the last smoker, then aged 96 dies, the whole industry would grind to a halt... It’s a great point. How the hell will it work practically? Will shops have to ID everyone who buys cigarettes, then figure out if they fall the right side of the line or not. Baffling. Just continue to tax the fuck out of cigs. They’ll become unaffordable sooner rather than later (if they aren’t already so).
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Post by tuum on Apr 16, 2024 21:41:42 GMT
It's a difficult one. It seems to have the support of organisations and individuals in the health sector. It is the biggest preventable burden on the NHS. I suppose the end game is to ban smoking full stop. A move which would improve the collective health of the UK but probably see individuals who are working pay more tax if the govt loses revenue from tobacco companies? Making smoking illegal would push the sale of tobacco underground and create a few more smugglers but probably still reduce the number of smoking related illnesses on the NHS. I assume the Govt has analysed the pros and cons and decided that the cost savings to the NHS and an improvement in the health of it's citizens outweighs the social cost of more criminals etc. If this goes through then why not sugar, alcohol, fast food joints etc. All of these are preventable burdens on the NHS. If you want to try and rationalise it to take the emotion out of the debate is it any different really to the seat belt laws that were introduced 40 years ago? Wasn't that law also an attack on our freedom to choose? I appreciate that the seat belt laws were never likely to create a black market to satisfy demand. Not sure where I stand on this one. It doesn't affect me as I don't smoke but I understand the reasoning. Just not sure if it is the thin end of a wedge and that there may be a better alternative. If going to ban smoking then ban smoking, this an odd way to do it This may be the stealth approach. An outright ban on smoking effective, say, 1 Jan 2025 may be too much of a shift for the population and businesses to absorb in one go.
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Post by tuum on Apr 16, 2024 21:43:46 GMT
So...someone today who is 15 will never be able to buy cigs, but someone who is 16 will... In 30 years the 15 yr old is 45, and still cant buy cigs, yet the now 46 yr old still can...Will they be ID checking everyone then that buys cigs in the future. Eventually as the people allowed to smoke dwindles each year production will cease. I can just see in say 80 years time, when the last smoker, then aged 96 dies, the whole industry would grind to a halt... I suspect the long term aim is that in 20 years time no one will be allowed to buy fags.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 16, 2024 21:45:55 GMT
Glad I’m in my 40’s. The young uns can’t do Jack shit anymore. They’ll all be lobotomised asexuals in the blink of an eye, you won’t be able to tell them apart. Poor fuckers
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Apr 16, 2024 21:53:22 GMT
The govt may as well at this stage move into our front rooms. Nanny fucking state. We are unable to look after ourselves so the big govt is gonna do it for us. Anyone who voted for this is a fucking moron who doesn't comprehend where this will end up...
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Post by wannabee on Apr 16, 2024 21:55:08 GMT
People who reach 18 no longer treated as Adults to make own decisions As an ex-Smoker now Vaper I don't encourage anyone to do either mind The argument goes that once addicted you are not making your own decisions anyway. But then you might say everyone should have the freedom to choose to get addicted to something which will ultimately kill them. I must admit I'm kind of torn on this one. I don't buy the NHS cost savings argument, non-smokers will still die, just later on, of something else , after 10 more years of consuming NHS resources. I oppose anything that curtails Civil Liberties I would support any measures that are effective in preventing or encouraging people not to smoke So like you I'm conflicted I support the "apparent" intent of the measure In UK about 100,000 15 year old currently smoke, I fail to see how this measure will be effective in stopping them or the next generation from starting smoking
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Post by dirtygary69 on Apr 16, 2024 22:00:45 GMT
So...someone today who is 15 will never be able to buy cigs, but someone who is 16 will... In 30 years the 15 yr old is 45, and still cant buy cigs, yet the now 46 yr old still can...Will they be ID checking everyone then that buys cigs in the future. Eventually as the people allowed to smoke dwindles each year production will cease. I can just see in say 80 years time, when the last smoker, then aged 96 dies, the whole industry would grind to a halt... 50 year old blokes hanging round looking shady outside off licenses with their hoods up, asking anyone over the age of 51 if they'll go in and buy them some fags.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Apr 16, 2024 22:01:51 GMT
So...someone today who is 15 will never be able to buy cigs, but someone who is 16 will... In 30 years the 15 yr old is 45, and still cant buy cigs, yet the now 46 yr old still can...Will they be ID checking everyone then that buys cigs in the future. Eventually as the people allowed to smoke dwindles each year production will cease. I can just see in say 80 years time, when the last smoker, then aged 96 dies, the whole industry would grind to a halt... 50 year old blokes hanging round looking shady outside off licenses with their hoods up, asking anyone over the age of 51 if they'll go in and buy them some fags. What's your mum got to say about this Gary 😃
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Apr 16, 2024 22:06:17 GMT
Wonder how this is gonna work in prisons in 3 years time. Plus we're now going to have a raft of new prisoners from the street dealing that's 100% going to become a thing. Our politicians are moronic. I'm staggered at this an I'm an ex smoker...
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Post by wannabee on Apr 16, 2024 22:07:35 GMT
So...someone today who is 15 will never be able to buy cigs, but someone who is 16 will... In 30 years the 15 yr old is 45, and still cant buy cigs, yet the now 46 yr old still can...Will they be ID checking everyone then that buys cigs in the future. Eventually as the people allowed to smoke dwindles each year production will cease. I can just see in say 80 years time, when the last smoker, then aged 96 dies, the whole industry would grind to a halt... 50 year old blokes hanging round looking shady outside off licenses with their hoods up, asking anyone over the age of 51 if they'll go in and buy them some fags. I admit your post made me laugh out loud 😂 Mind you I also imagined them farting around corners while waiting for their fix
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Post by iancransonsknees on Apr 16, 2024 22:16:39 GMT
So...someone today who is 15 will never be able to buy cigs, but someone who is 16 will... In 30 years the 15 yr old is 45, and still cant buy cigs, yet the now 46 yr old still can...Will they be ID checking everyone then that buys cigs in the future. Eventually as the people allowed to smoke dwindles each year production will cease. I can just see in say 80 years time, when the last smoker, then aged 96 dies, the whole industry would grind to a halt... I suspect the long term aim is that in 20 years time no one will be allowed to buy fags. But smoke weed until your heart is content.
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 16, 2024 22:58:32 GMT
Wonder how this is gonna work in prisons in 3 years time. Plus we're now going to have a raft of new prisoners from the street dealing that's 100% going to become a thing. Our politicians are moronic. I'm staggered at this an I'm an ex smoker... Seems dumb doesn't it mate! I hate the taste and smell of cigarettes. But what grown ups do to themselves doesn't seem like it should be any of my business. Don't like this ban.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Apr 16, 2024 23:12:34 GMT
Wonder how this is gonna work in prisons in 3 years time. Plus we're now going to have a raft of new prisoners from the street dealing that's 100% going to become a thing. Our politicians are moronic. I'm staggered at this an I'm an ex smoker... Seems dumb doesn't it mate! I hate the taste and smell of cigarettes. But what grown ups do to themselves doesn't seem like it should be any of my business. Don't like this ban. I still love the smell of a cigar or a ciggy to be fair. It seems to me like we've given up on the idea of personal responsibility. Covid was the test case really. And we failed. The govt got a taste and now they want the rest of us. This policy/law is a very very dark day...
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 17, 2024 0:29:57 GMT
Don’t see how it’s going to work out. Obesity is more of a drain on the healthcare system than smoking. Perhaps fast food chains could be outlawed next? If adults want to smoke - let them. It's a difficult one. It seems to have the support of organisations and individuals in the health sector. It is the biggest preventable burden on the NHS. I suppose the end game is to ban smoking full stop. A move which would improve the collective health of the UK but probably see individuals who are working pay more tax if the govt loses revenue from tobacco companies? Making smoking illegal would push the sale of tobacco underground and create a few more smugglers but probably still reduce the number of smoking related illnesses on the NHS. I assume the Govt has analysed the pros and cons and decided that the cost savings to the NHS and an improvement in the health of it's citizens outweighs the social cost of more criminals etc. If this goes through then why not sugar, alcohol, fast food joints etc. All of these are preventable burdens on the NHS. If you want to try and rationalise it to take the emotion out of the debate is it any different really to the seat belt laws that were introduced 40 years ago? Wasn't that law also an attack on our freedom to choose? I appreciate that the seat belt laws were never likely to create a black market to satisfy demand. Not sure where I stand on this one. It doesn't affect me as I don't smoke but I understand the reasoning. Just not sure if it is the thin end of a wedge and that there may be a better alternative. It’s always been my understanding that smoking is a good thing for the public purse to be honest. Smokers pay tax on the product then die early (typically ten years early), so they don’t get to collect on state pensions (for example).
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Apr 17, 2024 0:48:03 GMT
Ridiculous idea. If people want to smoke, let them. More than covers its cost via tax and this simply creates yet another illegal activity (that shouldn't be illegal) for Karen's to be catching people out on.
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Post by thisisouryear on Apr 17, 2024 4:40:32 GMT
So...someone today who is 15 will never be able to buy cigs, but someone who is 16 will... In 30 years the 15 yr old is 45, and still cant buy cigs, yet the now 46 yr old still can...Will they be ID checking everyone then that buys cigs in the future. Eventually as the people allowed to smoke dwindles each year production will cease. I can just see in say 80 years time, when the last smoker, then aged 96 dies, the whole industry would grind to a halt... 50 year old blokes hanging round looking shady outside off licenses with their hoods up, asking anyone over the age of 51 if they'll go in and buy them some fags. Imagine a shopkeeper getting fined for selling cigarettes to a 50 year old, it's just ridiculous
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Post by tuum on Apr 17, 2024 5:55:14 GMT
Ridiculous idea. If people want to smoke, let them. More than covers its cost via tax and this simply creates yet another illegal activity (that shouldn't be illegal) for Karen's to be catching people out on. If it more than covers its cost then why are they bringing in this legislation? Rest assured if this proposal was going to cost money then this Govt. would look to claw it back through more taxation.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 17, 2024 6:03:34 GMT
Seems dumb doesn't it mate! I hate the taste and smell of cigarettes. But what grown ups do to themselves doesn't seem like it should be any of my business. Don't like this ban. I still love the smell of a cigar or a ciggy to be fair. It seems to me like we've given up on the idea of personal responsibility. Covid was the test case really. And we failed. The govt got a taste and now they want the rest of us. This policy/law is a very very dark day... Absolutely spot on
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Post by tuum on Apr 17, 2024 6:05:01 GMT
I suspect the long term aim is that in 20 years time no one will be allowed to buy fags. But smoke weed until your heart is content. Cpuld be that the health benefits of weed are greater than those of fags. If fags were banned maybe the Govt has done the calcs and accepted the small cost of an underground activity. I assume when the Govt introduces legislation of this kind they do it armed with all the facts from a broad spectrum of professional advice including police,social,psychological, economic, political etc so they are fully aware of the cost (social and economic)...or am I overthinking this?
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Post by hotterpotter on Apr 17, 2024 6:41:51 GMT
But smoke weed until your heart is content. Cpuld be that the health benefits of weed are greater than those of fags. If fags were banned maybe the Govt has done the calcs and accepted the small cost of an underground activity. I assume when the Govt introduces legislation of this kind they do it armed with all the facts from a broad spectrum of professional advice including police,social,psychological, economic, political etc so they are fully aware of the cost (social and economic)...or am I overthinking this? Well up to a point they do but they can never fully predict the real-life consequences of a new policy.
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Post by Gods on Apr 17, 2024 6:45:00 GMT
So...someone today who is 15 will never be able to buy cigs, but someone who is 16 will... In 30 years the 15 yr old is 45, and still cant buy cigs, yet the now 46 yr old still can...Will they be ID checking everyone then that buys cigs in the future. Eventually as the people allowed to smoke dwindles each year production will cease. I can just see in say 80 years time, when the last smoker, then aged 96 dies, the whole industry would grind to a halt... 50 year old blokes hanging round looking shady outside off licenses with their hoods up, asking anyone over the age of 51 if they'll go in and buy them some fags. That did make me laugh!
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Post by hotterpotter on Apr 17, 2024 6:49:43 GMT
So...someone today who is 15 will never be able to buy cigs, but someone who is 16 will... In 30 years the 15 yr old is 45, and still cant buy cigs, yet the now 46 yr old still can...Will they be ID checking everyone then that buys cigs in the future. Eventually as the people allowed to smoke dwindles each year production will cease. I can just see in say 80 years time, when the last smoker, then aged 96 dies, the whole industry would grind to a halt... 50 year old blokes hanging round looking shady outside off licenses with their hoods up, asking anyone over the age of 51 if they'll go in and buy them some fags. By then there will be a live-stream of someone dying from smoking on the outside of every fag packet. I expect they'll be collectable!
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Apr 17, 2024 16:00:52 GMT
I still love the smell of a cigar or a ciggy to be fair. It seems to me like we've given up on the idea of personal responsibility. Covid was the test case really. And we failed. The govt got a taste and now they want the rest of us. This policy/law is a very very dark day... Absolutely spot on Double spot on. As many of us pointed out, the repercussions of society accepting badly misjudged covid authoritarianism are here to stay.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Apr 17, 2024 17:13:38 GMT
Double spot on. As many of us pointed out, the repercussions of society accepting badly misjudged covid authoritarianism are here to stay. You just need to look at the Patriot Act in America after 9/11. A temporary measure apparently, that is still law to this very day, giving the govt untold access to all your personal details. ALL your details that is, banking, medical, Internet history... Once they get their teeth in they do not let go...
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Post by felonious on Apr 17, 2024 17:36:56 GMT
50 year old blokes hanging round looking shady outside off licenses with their hoods up, asking anyone over the age of 51 if they'll go in and buy them some fags. Imagine a shopkeeper getting fined for selling cigarettes to a 50 year old, it's just ridiculous Challenge 50
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Post by knype on Apr 17, 2024 17:57:17 GMT
Will they ban Fast Food restaurants next and pubs serving alcohol ?
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Post by nott1 on Apr 17, 2024 18:29:54 GMT
So...someone today who is 15 will never be able to buy cigs, but someone who is 16 will... In 30 years the 15 yr old is 45, and still cant buy cigs, yet the now 46 yr old still can...Will they be ID checking everyone then that buys cigs in the future. Eventually as the people allowed to smoke dwindles each year production will cease. I can just see in say 80 years time, when the last smoker, then aged 96 dies, the whole industry would grind to a halt... The whole deadly industry should have been closed down 70 years ago. I once saw a documentry featuring a man with lung cancer who had lost every limb and wearing an oxygen cylinder who was a Marlborough smoker and was still smoking by getting someone to light his fags up......what feckin idiots some people are!
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Post by dirtygary69 on Apr 17, 2024 18:37:59 GMT
So...someone today who is 15 will never be able to buy cigs, but someone who is 16 will... In 30 years the 15 yr old is 45, and still cant buy cigs, yet the now 46 yr old still can...Will they be ID checking everyone then that buys cigs in the future. Eventually as the people allowed to smoke dwindles each year production will cease. I can just see in say 80 years time, when the last smoker, then aged 96 dies, the whole industry would grind to a halt... The whole deadly industry should have been closed down 70 years ago. I once saw a documentry featuring a man with lung cancer who had lost every limb and wearing an oxygen cylinder who was a Marlborough smoker and was still smoking by getting someone to light his fags up......what feckin idiots some people are! Was his name Bob?
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Post by nott1 on Apr 17, 2024 18:39:47 GMT
The whole deadly industry should have been closed down 70 years ago. I once saw a documentry featuring a man with lung cancer who had lost every limb and wearing an oxygen cylinder who was a Marlborough smoker and was still smoking by getting someone to light his fags up......what feckin idiots some people are! Was his name Bob? No idea but it wasn't Hopalong!
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Post by lurcherman on Apr 17, 2024 18:41:35 GMT
I'm still not sure why they think fags should be more of a target than alcohol. Maybe it's just an easier option.
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