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Post by worcsstokie15 on Dec 20, 2023 19:28:33 GMT
For many months, some supporters have bemoaned the club for not having a Brentford / Brighton style model despite recently appointing a Technical Director and a Head of Recruitment.
‘Too much control for the manager’
‘We are stuck in the dark ages’
‘Ricky Martin is Alex Neil’s best mate’
‘John Coates doesn’t know what he’s doing’
But Ricky Martin remains post-Neil, was heavily involved in the new manager (sorry, Head Coach) recruitment process and our business in the summer, aside from a few signings, was obviously led by Dublin’s data and not from Neil’s notebook.
Can those same supporters now acknowledge that we do have the model that they’ve championed?
Perhaps the key is just winning football games rather than models, trends and hipster football perspectives.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 20, 2023 19:31:05 GMT
For many months, some supporters have bemoaned the club for not having a Brentford / Brighton style model despite recently appointing a Technical Director and a Head of Recruitment. ‘Too much control for the manager’ ‘We are stuck in the dark ages’ ‘Ricky Martin is Alex Neil’s best mate’ ‘John Coates doesn’t know what he’s doing’ But Ricky Martin remains post-Neil, was heavily involved in the new manager (sorry, Head Coach) recruitment process and our business in the summer, aside from a few signings, was obviously led by Dublin’s data and not from Neil’s notebook. Can those same supporters now acknowledge that we do have the model that they’ve championed? Perhaps the key is just winning football games rather than models, trends and hipster football perspectives. We seem to be moving that way. Just a shame we took so long to do it. We have been massively behind the times. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2023 19:35:26 GMT
We’re not there yet, but this calendar year has been a good step in that direction. It’s a real shame that we lost good staff during that upheaval (thinking Rooster etc academy side especially) but hopefully we’ll develop further from here.
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Post by Gods on Dec 20, 2023 19:37:50 GMT
Tricky appears to now be in charge of all he surveys.
When we hired a rookie coach he was the biggest single winner.
He must have the confidence of John Coates because he appears to be certifiably mad to me.
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Post by stokiejoe on Dec 20, 2023 19:39:00 GMT
Regardless of title we need someone who's sole job is to get the first team fit and playing as a team. Just hope this works out, making all the right noises need to see how quickly and if we see the results on the pitch
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Dec 20, 2023 19:50:59 GMT
We do, it’s just held together with spit and jizz at the moment until we get the hang of it.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Dec 20, 2023 19:53:58 GMT
For many months, some supporters have bemoaned the club for not having a Brentford / Brighton style model despite recently appointing a Technical Director and a Head of Recruitment. But Ricky Martin remains post-Neil, was heavily involved in the new manager (sorry, Head Coach) recruitment process and our business in the summer, aside from a few signings, was obviously led by Dublin’s data and not from Neil’s notebook. It certainly looks that a significant change may have taken place, which is interesting since it's not very long since the Chairman was saying that we are a "manager-led club" and supporters were still talking about whether AN should be "given another window" etc. I wonder what role Gally will now have, given that he's brought his Assistant Manager and First-team coach with him |
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Post by Biblical on Dec 20, 2023 20:00:45 GMT
Tricky appears to now be in charge of all he surveys. When we hired a rookie coach he was the biggest single winner. He must have the confidence of John Coates because he appears to be certifiably mad to me. The cultural architect stuff feels like bullshit to me but I don’t really know. What I know is that before Ricky Martin we expected the managers to do absolutely everything and that’s just asking too much of them nowadays. MON was asked to do the Director of Football and manager role combined, with Northern Ireland its obviously different but with us he did the DOF well but the longer he went on the manager side showed he wasn’t up to the job and it’s maybe because his role encompassed so much. I think we’ve moved in the right direction with the specified roles, it’s remains to be seen whether the current incumbents are the right people for those roles. Overall I’ve got a good feeling about our current position, now that Alex Neil is not in charge. |
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Post by Trouserdog on Dec 20, 2023 20:05:37 GMT
Data and statistical models and all this stuff are only as good as the people interpreting them.
Ultimately, if we sign players based on graphs and charts, they can still turn out to be shit footballers if the person crunching the numbers isn't that great at interpreting them.
We might have the right model in place, but have we got the right people in those roles? Time will tell, but I've not been impressed by Dublin's signings so far.
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Dec 20, 2023 20:23:20 GMT
Data and statistical models and all this stuff are only as good as the people interpreting them. Ultimately, if we sign players based on graphs and charts, they can still turn out to be shit footballers if the person crunching the numbers isn't that great at interpreting them. We might have the right model in place, but have we got the right people in those roles? Time will tell, but I've not been impressed by Dublin's signings so far. Think when you bring 18 new players in at once there's gonna be some hits and some misses. Think burger, bae, junior, mmae, vidigal will become good signings. Travers and mcnally were decent loan signings. Some of course are just gonna be squad players who were needed to boost the numbers up. Hopefully in future Windows we can focus on 3 or 4 quality signings and not the vast amount we needed this summer. |
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Post by chiswickpotter on Dec 20, 2023 20:23:27 GMT
We definitely don’t have a Brentford model which is a club without an academy and hence limited links to their local football heartland. A fan base that is about 40% people like me in ticket shares who go to the odd game that doesn’t clash with Stoke City. We have always been similar to the massively owner financed Brighton model.
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Post by scfcwebby on Dec 20, 2023 20:32:29 GMT
Data and statistical models and all this stuff are only as good as the people interpreting them. Ultimately, if we sign players based on graphs and charts, they can still turn out to be shit footballers if the person crunching the numbers isn't that great at interpreting them. We might have the right model in place, but have we got the right people in those roles? Time will tell, but I've not been impressed by Dublin's signings so far. I genuinely don't think that the players were the problem and a lot will flourish in a new attacking set up. Time will tell I suppose |
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Post by hcstokie on Dec 20, 2023 20:35:02 GMT
Data and statistical models and all this stuff are only as good as the people interpreting them. Ultimately, if we sign players based on graphs and charts, they can still turn out to be shit footballers if the person crunching the numbers isn't that great at interpreting them. We might have the right model in place, but have we got the right people in those roles? Time will tell, but I've not been impressed by Dublin's signings so far. I couldn’t agree more. I’d also add that we will only know how successful the model is once we start turning over players. We could get lucky with a few signings, but the true measure of success would be whether we can embed continuity and a definitive style of play despite staff turnover (players and managers included). Some short term success would be a nice start, we’ve been consistently shit for 7 years! |
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Post by mickstupp on Dec 20, 2023 20:38:03 GMT
I suppose I’m old fashioned, but it’s beyond me why football clubs need to create tiers upon tiers of roles to provide us with some decent footballers.
Over complicated corporate bullshit for me. Parasites draining money out of the club for doing nothing, having no real responsibility and blurring the lines of accountability.
I wonder if the players get confused as to who is actually in charge.
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Post by mickstupp on Dec 20, 2023 20:45:50 GMT
Data and statistical models and all this stuff are only as good as the people interpreting them. Ultimately, if we sign players based on graphs and charts, they can still turn out to be shit footballers if the person crunching the numbers isn't that great at interpreting them. We might have the right model in place, but have we got the right people in those roles? Time will tell, but I've not been impressed by Dublin's signings so far. Heat maps and stats will only tell you so much. What you can’t gauge is a players mentality. That’s a huge issue for us. When we go a goal down, with very few exceptions, we may as well just concede defeat and walk off the pitch. |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Dec 20, 2023 20:46:31 GMT
I’ve always been convinced Ricky Martin wasn’t a Neil appointment and one day he’d end up sacking him.
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Post by baconburger on Dec 20, 2023 20:59:43 GMT
We’re certainly moving in that direction. Allowing Schu to bring in virtually a whole back room team is not consistent with the model but we’ve moved a long way along the road. It both offers additional support to a head coach but also makes them far less intrinsic to the operation and easier to replace as seemlessly as possible. They become just another cog in the machine. It’s common in most large organisations, change the voice, reset relationships, introduce fresh ideas, break up cliques. It’s simpler and less wasteful than changing the group, allows people to concentrate fully on their role.
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Post by gingerninja on Dec 20, 2023 21:02:29 GMT
I think we have to agree, off the field the last 2 years have seen really positive strides in fan satisfaction. Since Simon King came on board, much has improved. Much still to do, but credit where credit is due, much improved.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 20, 2023 21:05:51 GMT
Tricky appears to now be in charge of all he surveys. When we hired a rookie coach he was the biggest single winner. He must have the confidence of John Coates because he appears to be certifiably mad to me. Mad is fine but abjectly useless and full of shit quite another |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2023 21:10:02 GMT
Data and statistical models and all this stuff are only as good as the people interpreting them. Ultimately, if we sign players based on graphs and charts, they can still turn out to be shit footballers if the person crunching the numbers isn't that great at interpreting them. We might have the right model in place, but have we got the right people in those roles? Time will tell, but I've not been impressed by Dublin's signings so far. I broadly agree but how many of the summer signings were down to Dublin? Pearson, Johnson, Hoever, Gooch, Stevens definitely down to Neil. Rose and McNally Neil had been linked to before and I suspect Wesley also a AN signing. That's roughly half the summer signings. What I'm saying is we need a bit more evidence before know if Dublin is the right man or not. |
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Post by baconburger on Dec 20, 2023 21:10:32 GMT
I think we have to agree, off the field the last 2 years have seen really positive strides in fan satisfaction. Since Simon King came on board, much has improved. Much still to do, but credit where credit is due, much improved. Hopefully Schu will communicate with us better than AN instead of treating everything like it’s a state secret. Do we really not deserve to know where players are when they disappear from the matchday squad, what’s wrong with them and when they might return. I don’t believe for a minute that that information is a difference maker to our opponents. In fact they are probably aware of that information from talk within the game. The only people he was keeping in the dark was us fans. |
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Post by baconburger on Dec 20, 2023 21:17:52 GMT
Data and statistical models and all this stuff are only as good as the people interpreting them. Ultimately, if we sign players based on graphs and charts, they can still turn out to be shit footballers if the person crunching the numbers isn't that great at interpreting them. We might have the right model in place, but have we got the right people in those roles? Time will tell, but I've not been impressed by Dublin's signings so far. I broadly agree but how many of the summer signings were down to Dublin? Pearson, Johnson, Hoever, Gooch, Stevens definitely down to Neil. Rose and McNally Neil had been linked to before and I suspect Wesley also a AN signing. That's roughly half the summer signings. What I'm saying is we need a bit more evidence before know if Dublin is the right man or not. Whatever recruitment model you use you’ll still make a high proportion of bad deals. The data is a tool to assist judgement not replace it. It doesn’t matter how well you analyse it or how good your judgement is 50% success is pretty bloody good. Then you use age, potential, wages, structure of the deal to try to maximise the upside and minimise the downside. Data driven or otherwise we’ve been doing it for quite some time (MON) and doing it quite well. |
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Dec 20, 2023 21:20:06 GMT
I’m not sure we have a plan for next week, let alone a model
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Post by a on Dec 20, 2023 21:27:04 GMT
For many months, some supporters have bemoaned the club for not having a Brentford / Brighton style model despite recently appointing a Technical Director and a Head of Recruitment. ‘Too much control for the manager’ ‘We are stuck in the dark ages’ ‘Ricky Martin is Alex Neil’s best mate’ ‘John Coates doesn’t know what he’s doing’ But Ricky Martin remains post-Neil, was heavily involved in the new manager (sorry, Head Coach) recruitment process and our business in the summer, aside from a few signings, was obviously led by Dublin’s data and not from Neil’s notebook. Can those same supporters now acknowledge that we do have the model that they’ve championed? Perhaps the key is just winning football games rather than models, trends and hipster football perspectives. Is this because he’s “head coach” not manager? Maybe it’s what we need but given our recent history of leadership I’m yet to be convinced. I’ll be watching Saturday and supporting either way, |
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Post by a on Dec 20, 2023 21:30:14 GMT
Tricky appears to now be in charge of all he surveys. When we hired a rookie coach he was the biggest single winner. He must have the confidence of John Coates because he appears to be certifiably mad to me. maaaaaaaaybe |
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Post by baystokie on Dec 20, 2023 21:31:05 GMT
Tricky appears to now be in charge of all he surveys. When we hired a rookie coach he was the biggest single winner. He must have the confidence of John Coates because he appears to be certifiably mad to me. Mad is fine but abjectly useless and full of shit quite another Stop blowing your own trumpet! |
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Post by baystokie on Dec 20, 2023 21:35:06 GMT
I’m not sure we have a plan for next week, let alone a model It's only important that the the club's management are sure. |
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Post by baconburger on Dec 20, 2023 21:38:18 GMT
For many months, some supporters have bemoaned the club for not having a Brentford / Brighton style model despite recently appointing a Technical Director and a Head of Recruitment. ‘Too much control for the manager’ ‘We are stuck in the dark ages’ ‘Ricky Martin is Alex Neil’s best mate’ ‘John Coates doesn’t know what he’s doing’ But Ricky Martin remains post-Neil, was heavily involved in the new manager (sorry, Head Coach) recruitment process and our business in the summer, aside from a few signings, was obviously led by Dublin’s data and not from Neil’s notebook. Can those same supporters now acknowledge that we do have the model that they’ve championed? Perhaps the key is just winning football games rather than models, trends and hipster football perspectives. Is this because he’s “head coach” not manager? Maybe it’s what we need but given our recent history of leadership I’m yet to be convinced. I’ll be watching Saturday and supporting either way, What would convince you. As a model it’s meant to allow people to focus on their role and reduce the organisations reliance on individuals. It won’t stop you making bad deals for players. It won’t stop you making bad appointments. If that’s what you’re waiting for it will be a long wait. It’s more like trying to drag football into the real world. I mean how many jobs have you been for where you insist upon the company employing a shitload of your mates too and when you leave they all leave with you, it’s bizarre. |
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Dec 20, 2023 21:40:57 GMT
Is this because he’s “head coach” not manager? Maybe it’s what we need but given our recent history of leadership I’m yet to be convinced. I’ll be watching Saturday and supporting either way, What would convince you. As a model it’s meant to allow people to focus on their role and reduce the organisations reliance on individuals. It won’t stop you making bad deals for players. It won’t stop you making bad appointments. If that’s what you’re waiting for it will be a long wait. It’s more like trying to drag football into the real world. I mean how many jobs have you been for where you insist upon the company employing a shitload of your mates too and when you leave they all leave with you, it’s bizarre. Well put 👏 👏 |
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 20, 2023 21:45:08 GMT
I suppose I’m old fashioned, but it’s beyond me why football clubs need to create tiers upon tiers of roles to provide us with some decent footballers. Over complicated corporate bullshit for me. Parasites draining money out of the club for doing nothing, having no real responsibility and blurring the lines of accountability. I wonder if the players get confused as to who is actually in charge. I used to think that but have been won over. Seems to have worked well at lots of clubs. Isn't the idea that the players just listen to the head coach? The strategy and recruitment folk aren't involved day to day. I'm just sick of constant full rebuilds. 4-3-3 to diamond to 5-3-2 to 4-3-3. |
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