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Post by ted1965 on Sept 25, 2023 10:43:42 GMT
I have been letting my annoyance fall back before commenting on the last couple of games. watching very well paid professional footballers defending like they have never played at any level above lower leagues is unacceptable whoever is playing. The midfield parted and the defence looked like it was on a bonus to create opportunities for the opposition.
I am still excited by the process we are attempting but that doesn’t excuse the kind of keystone cop defending we have been indulging in for many years now.
My first question to all coaching staff what the hell do you do in the week when It comes to the defending drills, whatever you do isn’t working and sadly we look as frail as ever it doesn’t seem to matter who we have at the back. Why wasn’t a leader in defence the highest priority in the last week of the window? Yes we have some exciting additions but the defence it seems was not something we really improved. The 3 main centre backs are almost a carbon copy of each other and they seem so hesitant when a simple ball is anywhere near our penalty area. All the goals we conceded this week were preventable.
We should have beaten Huddersfield but we just presented Hull with 3 points by floundering around at the back like we were a Sunday league side, if a side scores a fantastic goal, either individual or team play all you can do is say okay fair play, when your defenders and those in front of them part like the red sea and fall about seemingly not knowing how to do the basics it’s not acceptable.
I have said before I am neither a fan or a detractor Of AN, he talks well but unless he finds a system which prevents the calamitous almost comical defending then his time here will be a lot shorter than anyone expected.
Surely there must be a free agent who can add some organisation and power to our defence, even on a short term contract. I understand that any player coming in now would probably be way short of match fitness but surely somebody for a few months must be available.
I still believe there is hope of better things to come and if AN wants to be manager when the better times come around he needs to address the elephant in the room.
Yes scoring goals is also proving more difficult than we hoped but I do believe that can be improved with some confidence but that only comes with wins and if you start a game wondering just how many goals you might need to win it makes every miss more deflating.
I am not calling for Neil to be sacked but if he can’t improve the basics come end of October he may well be leaving whether people love him or loathe him. I want him to succeed because I want the club to succeed.
I support this club and like the majority of the supporters just want to see the club moving forward again and if it takes another hand on the tiller so be it.
I do wonder how Brighton and Brentford went on in the very early days of their very successful projects?
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Post by J-Roar on Sept 25, 2023 10:50:10 GMT
Just tell the cunts to be strong, dirty and get rid if they are under pressure. We are playing Hull and Huudersfield. It's not like we're not going to get the ball back for 20 mins if we just bang it long.
The Guardiolaisation of lower league English football is painful to witness.
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Post by stokest5 on Sept 25, 2023 11:16:33 GMT
I think since we got relegated to the championship we’ve had the same problem that’s god knows now how mangers haven’t been able to fix. We’re not great at defending or scoring from set pieces. Teams are able to go through our midfield like a hot knife through butter and we struggle with the basic long ball towards outback line. We’re also good at keeping possession whilst doing fuck all with it.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Sept 25, 2023 11:20:53 GMT
Their third goal illustrates it perfectly loads of passes and no pressure on the ball whatsoever , the Guardiolaisation of lower league football as commented above seems to fail to communicate the requirement that if you do lose the ball you work your fucking bollocks off and fight to get it back as a group as quickly as possible no matter what opinion you have of yourself or your arse will be out of the team
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Post by pavel on Sept 25, 2023 11:29:43 GMT
I have been letting my annoyance fall back before commenting on the last couple of games. watching very well paid professional footballers defending like they have never played at any level above lower leagues is unacceptable whoever is playing. The midfield parted and the defence looked like it was on a bonus to create opportunities for the opposition. I am still excited by the process we are attempting but that doesn’t excuse the kind of keystone cop defending we have been indulging in for many years now. My first question to all coaching staff what the hell do you do in the week when It comes to the defending drills, whatever you do isn’t working and sadly we look as frail as ever it doesn’t seem to matter who we have at the back. Why wasn’t a leader in defence the highest priority in the last week of the window? Yes we have some exciting additions but the defence it seems was not something we really improved. The 3 main centre backs are almost a carbon copy of each other and they seem so hesitant when a simple ball is anywhere near our penalty area. All the goals we conceded this week were preventable. We should have beaten Huddersfield but we just presented Hull with 3 points by floundering around at the back like we were a Sunday league side, if a side scores a fantastic goal, either individual or team play all you can do is say okay fair play, when your defenders and those in front of them part like the red sea and fall about seemingly not knowing how to do the basics it’s not acceptable. I have said before I am neither a fan or a detractor Of AN, he talks well but unless he finds a system which prevents the calamitous almost comical defending then his time here will be a lot shorter than anyone expected. Surely there must be a free agent who can add some organisation and power to our defence, even on a short term contract. I understand that any player coming in now would probably be way short of match fitness but surely somebody for a few months must be available. I still believe there is hope of better things to come and if AN wants to be manager when the better times come around he needs to address the elephant in the room. Yes scoring goals is also proving more difficult than we hoped but I do believe that can be improved with some confidence but that only comes with wins and if you start a game wondering just how many goals you might need to win it makes every miss more deflating. I am not calling for Neil to be sacked but if he can’t improve the basics come end of October he may well be leaving whether people love him or loathe him. I want him to succeed because I want the club to succeed. I support this club and like the majority of the supporters just want to see the club moving forward again and if it takes another hand on the tiller so be it. I do wonder how Brighton and Brentford went on in the very early days of their very successful projects? The defence was poor but I'm not sure if it's wholly the players or the coaching, they are 3 youngish defenders and it's criminal that we didn't bring a experienced defender in to bring them on, surely as you say we can find a free agent for the short term. I think the tactics as Trouserdog said of having the wing backs (not that they were wingbacks, one's a fullback and the other was a CM) so far up the field was sussed early by Hull and the midfield was overloaded and bypassed and the back 3 left exposed which exaggerated the defence's fragility. I think we have the players that can thrive it this division but we need Neil to have a plan, play his best players in their proper positions, execute that plan and get his tactics right. He really needs to up his in game management as well. Hull had 17 outgoings and 10 incomings and they have seemed to manage it. I've been supporting the club from the late 50's so of course I want to Stoke to succeed and I too want the club to move on. I wouldn't give Neil as much time as you, probably coloured by my view of him, I've never taken to him, a couple more games like this and I think he should go, we've waited too long before and look where that has got us. I think Neil's tenure has been nothing short of disastrous in terms of results and entertainment apart from 5 games last season and a few glimpses this season. As ever I'm worried who they will appoint but it need to be a progressive manager, maybe dare I say it, foreign, we've tried everything else to little avail and they must be a fit for the players we've brought in. As for Brentford and Brighton their transition seemed to have been seamless, a long time in the planning, but they have a different model from us, all the power doesn't rest with the manager, we have seemed to have moved to a half way house approach. |
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Post by pavel on Sept 25, 2023 11:36:49 GMT
Just tell the cunts to be strong, dirty and get rid if they are under pressure. We are playing Hull and Huudersfield. It's not like we're not going to get the ball back for 20 mins if we just bang it long. The Guardiolaisation of lower league English football is painful to witness. Perhaps we should coach them properly and work on basic ball skills, get rid has always been painful and counter productive when used as a primary tool of playing. It's not Guardiolisation, it was happening way before he came along it just needs proper coaching and as I said work on basic ball skills and it can work in the lower leagues as well as Sunday league football. Try reading Frankin's view on banging it long, you know the Stoke player who was one of the greatest defenders England ever had, it's quite instructive. |
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Sept 25, 2023 11:45:31 GMT
Like you mention, end of October is when I'll be making a decision. Any manager deserves that amount of games before the inquest begins.
Obviously not gone to plan, he has to find his best system and soon. The worrying thing is the pattern of random selections, formations and players panicking on the ball, something the previous 4 managers all did.
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Post by pavel on Sept 25, 2023 12:11:44 GMT
Their third goal illustrates it perfectly loads of passes and no pressure on the ball whatsoever , the Guardiolaisation of lower league football as commented above seems to fail to communicate the requirement that if you do lose the ball you work your fucking bollocks off and fight to get it back as a group as quickly as possible no matter what opinion you have of yourself or your arse will be out of the team Well if you watch Man City, if any player loses the ball they swarm all over the opposition to get it back, it's not the system it's about implementing it properly and that's down to Neil and his coaches. |
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Sept 25, 2023 12:45:01 GMT
It looks very much that Alex neil is failing like the previous managers since relegation.
The question is were do we go from here do we start again or except our fate which looks very much like league 1 on Sundays showing.
The team looked completely rudderless & Hull did not really break sweat to claim 3 points.
I was convinced AN was the man to turn our fortunes around but after that showing Sunday its obvious he is failing in all departments.
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Post by J-Roar on Sept 25, 2023 13:03:20 GMT
Just tell the cunts to be strong, dirty and get rid if they are under pressure. We are playing Hull and Huudersfield. It's not like we're not going to get the ball back for 20 mins if we just bang it long. The Guardiolaisation of lower league English football is painful to witness. Perhaps we should coach them properly and work on basic ball skills, get rid has always been painful and counter productive when used as a primary tool of playing. It's not Guardiolisation, it was happening way before he came along it just needs proper coaching and as I said work on basic ball skills and it can work in the lower leagues as well as Sunday league football. Try reading Frankin's view on banging it long, you know the Stoke player who was one of the greatest defenders England ever had, it's quite instructive. With respect, the greatest English defender's view on how to play is coloured by the fact he was an amazing player. For limited players you play to their limitations. The key thing is to stop the attacker by any means. If you've done that legally you then either (ideally) find a player in space. Otherwise you bang it long. The misapprehension that possession is king is stupid at this level. It's coaches swinging their dicks to show how much they are like Pep. |
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Post by LGH87 on Sept 25, 2023 13:07:23 GMT
It looks very much that Alex neil is failing like the previous managers since relegation. The question is were do we go from here do we start again or except our fate which looks very much like league 1 on Sundays showing. The team looked completely rudderless & Hull did not really break sweat to claim 3 points. I was convinced AN was the man to turn our fortunes around but after that showing Sunday its obvious he is failing in all departments. He’s done for me, it wouldn’t surprise me if it’s damage limitation between now and Leicester before he’s removed going in to the international break. He’s simply lost the plot. If he ever had it in the first place. |
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Post by pavel on Sept 25, 2023 13:44:05 GMT
Perhaps we should coach them properly and work on basic ball skills, get rid has always been painful and counter productive when used as a primary tool of playing. It's not Guardiolisation, it was happening way before he came along it just needs proper coaching and as I said work on basic ball skills and it can work in the lower leagues as well as Sunday league football. Try reading Frankin's view on banging it long, you know the Stoke player who was one of the greatest defenders England ever had, it's quite instructive. With respect, the greatest English defender's view on how to play is coloured by the fact he was an amazing player. For limited players you play to their limitations. The key thing is to stop the attacker by any means. If you've done that legally you then either (ideally) find a player in space. Otherwise you bang it long. The misapprehension that possession is king is stupid at this level. It's coaches swinging their dicks to show how much they are like Pep. Well we'll have to disagree with this one, it can be coached at any level if you are a footballer, you should have that skillset. What Franklin said by the way was possession was king and that was in the day of boot it up and out. Anyway it's always interesting to here how other people see the game and it's a good job we don't all agree, else we would have nothing to talk about on this board. Agreed you stop a player by any means within the law (or just outside it, yellow card), then keep possession and pass, booting it should be the last resort. Were not a million miles away on this you know> |
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Post by kidcrewbob on Sept 25, 2023 13:52:24 GMT
“Excited by the process” - WTAF ?
Load of waffle could have said all that in a couple sentences - get off the fence ffs….
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Post by J-Roar on Sept 25, 2023 14:05:40 GMT
With respect, the greatest English defender's view on how to play is coloured by the fact he was an amazing player. For limited players you play to their limitations. The key thing is to stop the attacker by any means. If you've done that legally you then either (ideally) find a player in space. Otherwise you bang it long. The misapprehension that possession is king is stupid at this level. It's coaches swinging their dicks to show how much they are like Pep. Well we'll have to disagree with this one, it can be coached at any level if you are a footballer, you should have that skillset. What Franklin said by the way was possession was king and that was in the day of boot it up and out. Anyway it's always interesting to here how other people see the game and it's a good job we don't all agree, else we would have nothing to talk about on this board. Agreed you stop a player by any means within the law (or just outside it, yellow card), then keep possession and pass, booting it should be the last resort. Were not a million miles away on this you know> Don't think we are disagreeing. The last resort never comes - they try and pass in the most ridiculous and high risk situations for very little gain. |
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Post by hoppo96 on Sept 25, 2023 17:28:52 GMT
Just tell the cunts to be strong, dirty and get rid if they are under pressure. We are playing Hull and Huudersfield. It's not like we're not going to get the ball back for 20 mins if we just bang it long. The Guardiolaisation of lower league English football is painful to witness. I think if we just booted it up against Hull yesterday we still lose. Teams are becoming more clever and sophisticated now. If we ever got back into the Premier League there's no way in hell we'd be able to replicate our style from 2008-2013 and stay up. Absolutely no chance. None of our problems are down to 'lack of effort', 'desire', 'passion', '20 goal a season striker'. Its tactical, out of form players and injuries. |
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Post by J-Roar on Sept 25, 2023 17:32:33 GMT
Just tell the cunts to be strong, dirty and get rid if they are under pressure. We are playing Hull and Huudersfield. It's not like we're not going to get the ball back for 20 mins if we just bang it long. The Guardiolaisation of lower league English football is painful to witness. I think if we just booted it up against Hull yesterday we still lose. Teams are becoming more clever and sophisticated now. If we ever got back into the Premier League there's no way in hell we'd be able to replicate our style from 2008-2013 and stay up. Absolutely no chance. None of our problems are down to 'lack of effort', 'desire', 'passion', '20 goal a season striker'. Its tactical, out of form players and injuries. I'm not saying just boot it up. I am saying have some nous and realise that getting rid when you've no real option is better than slavishly keeping possession |
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