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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 28, 2023 9:58:19 GMT
I mean all this talk is obviously conjecture and for all we know, irrespective of results the board have no intention of getting rid. Is there anyone who is supposedly close to the club who has heard different and if results don't pick up the club will act?. 'Irrespective of results' isn't a thing though is it? The crowd and the atmosphere will force their hand.
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Post by retrostoke on Sept 28, 2023 9:59:23 GMT
Whoever it is will need to win at least 50% of their first 10 games or the same conversation will be happening again before Christmas.
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 28, 2023 10:01:58 GMT
Would we consider Jokanovic? We wanted him before Jones, didn't we? But his spell at Sheff U was catastrophic and did his reputation a lot of damage. And he's just had another underwhelming spell in Russia. I seem to remember reading a long-read on his spell in Sheffield that he didn't come out well in. But he's got a decent CV overall.
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Post by thornestein on Sept 28, 2023 10:04:39 GMT
Would we consider Jokanovic? We wanted him before Jones, didn't we? But his spell at Sheff U was catastrophic and did his reputation a lot of damage. And he's just had another underwhelming spell in Russia. I seem to remember reading a long-read on his spell in Sheffield that he didn't come out well in. But he's got a decent CV overall. it’s quite a dilemma if we do pull the trigger which i think will happen sooner rather than later
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Post by shakermaker on Sept 28, 2023 10:04:44 GMT
I mean all this talk is obviously conjecture and for all we know, irrespective of results the board have no intention of getting rid. Is there anyone who is supposedly close to the club who has heard different and if results don't pick up the club will act?. It would be gross negligence if the Board hadn't at least started putting together a shortlist of candidates for if/when Neil gets the chop. They need to be able to have someone in place quickly in order to try and salvage safety first, and then a reasonable stab at the playoffs - there should be no more than one game with a caretaker.
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Post by itsmorethanagame on Sept 28, 2023 10:07:30 GMT
Would we consider Jokanovic? We wanted him before Jones, didn't we? But his spell at Sheff U was catastrophic and did his reputation a lot of damage. And he's just had another underwhelming spell in Russia. I seem to remember reading a long-read on his spell in Sheffield that he didn't come out well in. But he's got a decent CV overall. We aren't going to get anyone with a perfect CV are we though! Though i'm admittedly not aware of the full in's and out's of his reign at the Blades. I also hadn't realised we had approached him before. That's interesting. As with Neil, we know the board quite like to go back on previous targets. The fact that he's available and someone wev'e considered before could at least mean he would be one to be considered. And two promotions out of the championship isn't to be sniffed at. I would be interested to read the sheff utd article on him if you are able to dig it out. But as mentioned, we aren't going to get anyone who hasn't got a failure on their cv somewhere are we.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Sept 28, 2023 10:15:32 GMT
I don't think there's one good, realistic suggestion in here is there? It's all very well just saying someone foreign but people said the same about our recruitment in the summer and now aren't happy with that. If he doesn't improve things then he has to go but good god, who will we bring in? Wilder looks the obvious choice but he's failed in his last couple of roles and wouldn't be universally approved. I think we need to give Neil as long as we feasibly can to change things for the better. It would be different if there was an obvious go to option available who we needed to move swiftly on. it does seem difficult than normal for a layman to identify a group of 2-3 likely options. In past years, there've always been 3-4 I'd have been superficially happy with. Not this time though. Wilder looks the one they'll look at because they have reportedly before, more than once (although, as you say, not sure how well another old school Brit coming off 2 relative failures would go down) www.footballinsider247.com/sources-sheffield-united-set-sights-on-appointing-chris-wilder-as-paul-heckingbottom-at-risk-of-first-sacking-of-season/And the Sheff United rumours aren't going away anyway, so may be a moot point. Dean Smith? Poor at Norwich and Leicester. Another one that wouldn't go down great After that, God only knows. Hassenhuttl probably wouldn't come. Terry is taking a Saudi job, Rooney's record is poor, Lampard's is worse. Could we attract Corberan? Probably not. I had a look for any likely lads in L1/2 the other day, and there was nobody that was being particularly touted for a move up the ladder. So that leaves a punt on an in-work manager abroad. And that can go horribly wrong And who's in charge of the process and making sure we're aware of who's out there? Martin? Theoretically, you'd think so. But he's Neil's mate. So is it John's mate in the pub? Who knows? There are obviously people out there who could do a great job given the opportunity, but actually identifying them seems pretty tough. The lack of candidates definitely is an issue. It’s difficult, in the heat of the moment last week I was very keen for him to go. He (along with the recruitment team) have left the squad woefully short in certain areas. However, I do feel if he actually started to play the right formation and tactics, the team would perform better and he’d be able to stay. The 5 games between beating Sunderland and beating Coventry last season were amazing. We know the team and AN can do it.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 28, 2023 10:19:18 GMT
Isn't that any managers job though, team , formation and tactics? Those who know how to apply all 3 , make a good manager in general.
We can't keep going back to a purple patch 9 odd months ago.
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Post by LGH87 on Sept 28, 2023 10:20:53 GMT
The other option is a tracksuit coach type - like when Steve Cooper and Neil Critchley were plucked straight from an academy/under-age national/assistant job. Carsley seems out of reach, as his mate Kevin Kilbane was saying he's turned down Prem jobs. And Anthony Barry, who Tuchel took to Bayern with him, has apparently turned down Prem jobs too. But someone of that type may tick the box. You'd be in wild swing territory, but any wilder than another tired, retread option, who knows? Carlos Vicens Enrico Venturelli
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Post by baconburger on Sept 28, 2023 10:25:28 GMT
It won't be obvious to any supporters, no. But surely we (The SCFC board) know what type of manager to avoid. For example it would be fruitless to appoint a defence minded manager with the type of defenders we have right now. We really need to get someone who can take advantage of our current strengths possibly our wingers or forward line. Our midfield can only be described as functional. Not saying the defence should be forgotten as that desperately needs further attention. There is a good argument that what Stoke needs is a progressive articulate manager working with a highly experienced defensive minded coach. People who appear on paper incompatible but done professionally, bring out the best in one another. The pragmatist and the visionary. If all a manager does is bring in people who think like them, and do as instructed, they will rarely solve problems. Great architects have a vision. Even greater engineers make their dreams stand tall. Stoke City have fallen into the trap of thinking they need to employ either a visionary manager or a pragmatist. One person rarely embodies both attributes. Seems utterly moronic to think that one area of the team works to an entirely different game plan to another. What do you think it is American Football? Progressives are progressive by moving the dial in favour of attacking intent. Defensive coaches do so by moving the dial in favour of defence. Pulis wasn’t a defensive mastermind he just used most of his resources on defensive solidity. Hughes finished higher and conceded less by defending less and being far better at the other end of the pitch. Actual defending apart from throwing more resources at it is limited to how good or bad your defensive players are.
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Post by Sfance on Sept 28, 2023 10:26:32 GMT
Dean Smith? Poor at Norwich and Leicester. Another one that wouldn't go down great
After that, God only knows. Hassenhuttl probably wouldn't come.
Terry is taking a Saudi job, Rooney's record is poor, Lampard's is worse. Could we attract Corberan? Probably not.
I had a look for any likely lads in L1/2 the other day, and there was nobody that was being particularly touted for a move up the ladder.
So that leaves a punt on an in-work manager abroad. And that can go horribly wrong
And who's in charge of the process and making sure we're aware of who's out there? Martin? Theoretically, you'd think so. But he's Neil's mate. So is it John's mate in the pub?
Who knows?
There are obviously people out there who could do a great job given the opportunity, but actually identifying them seems pretty tough.
This is IdiotJohn we're talking about - it'll be the fella in the pub.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Sept 28, 2023 10:29:03 GMT
Roy Maurice Keane.
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Post by baconburger on Sept 28, 2023 10:29:42 GMT
The other option is a tracksuit coach type - like when Steve Cooper and Neil Critchley were plucked straight from an academy/under-age national/assistant job. Carsley seems out of reach, as his mate Kevin Kilbane was saying he's turned down Prem jobs. And Anthony Barry, who Tuchel took to Bayern with him, has apparently turned down Prem jobs too. But someone of that type may tick the box. You'd be in wild swing territory, but any wilder than another tired, retread option, who knows? Carlos Vicens Enrico Venturelli Wow are they real people or did you invent them?
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Post by ursemboys on Sept 28, 2023 10:32:22 GMT
Potter, he owes us after the Leicester miss
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Post by itsmorethanagame on Sept 28, 2023 10:33:55 GMT
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 28, 2023 10:38:00 GMT
We wanted him before Jones, didn't we? But his spell at Sheff U was catastrophic and did his reputation a lot of damage. And he's just had another underwhelming spell in Russia. I seem to remember reading a long-read on his spell in Sheffield that he didn't come out well in. But he's got a decent CV overall. We aren't going to get anyone with a perfect CV are we though! Though i'm admittedly not aware of the full in's and out's of his reign at the Blades. I also hadn't realised we had approached him before. That's interesting. As with Neil, we know the board quite like to go back on previous targets. The fact that he's available and someone wev'e considered before could at least mean he would be one to be considered. And two promotions out of the championship isn't to be sniffed at. I would be interested to read the sheff utd article on him if you are able to dig it out. But as mentioned, we aren't going to get anyone who hasn't got a failure on their cv somewhere are we. Yeah, there's probably enough there to make him a live contender, especially with the previous interest. I can't find the article that I thought I remembered reading. Thought it must've been the Athletic, but their long read on him doesn't really stick the knife in, so don't know what I'm thinking of. Jared Dublin will have been at Sheff U during his time there, and will be aware of what went on there? www.s24su.com/forum/threads/baldock-on-jokanovic.90749/The thinking seems to be the transition from Wilderball to Slavball was quite a big one with no real funds to overhaul the squad sufficiently. At least he's a 4-2-3-1 man - but favours slower, more methodical football
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Post by shrewspotter on Sept 28, 2023 10:38:40 GMT
Wasn't the ex Man U coach and Chelsea man Rui Faria well thought of.
I dont think anything will happen, not until the next International break at the earliest anyway
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Post by potter25 on Sept 28, 2023 10:44:21 GMT
Rooney was only good when Rosenier was with him
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Post by LGH87 on Sept 28, 2023 10:52:32 GMT
Carlos Vicens Enrico Venturelli Wow are they real people or did you invent them? Vicens is one of Pep’s assistants and is an expert with set pieces. He’s another of the Pep production line after Maresca, Kompany etc. Venturelli is one of De Zerbi’s assistants. Be
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Post by shakermaker on Sept 28, 2023 10:55:09 GMT
We aren't going to get anyone with a perfect CV are we though! Though i'm admittedly not aware of the full in's and out's of his reign at the Blades. I also hadn't realised we had approached him before. That's interesting. As with Neil, we know the board quite like to go back on previous targets. The fact that he's available and someone wev'e considered before could at least mean he would be one to be considered. And two promotions out of the championship isn't to be sniffed at. I would be interested to read the sheff utd article on him if you are able to dig it out. But as mentioned, we aren't going to get anyone who hasn't got a failure on their cv somewhere are we. Yeah, there's probably enough there to make him a live contender, especially with the previous interest. I can't find the article that I thought I remembered reading. Thought it must've been the Athletic, but their long read on him doesn't really stick the knife in, so don't know what I'm thinking of. Jared Dublin will have been at Sheff U during his time there, and will be aware of what went on there? www.s24su.com/forum/threads/baldock-on-jokanovic.90749/The thinking seems to be the transition from Wilderball to Slavball was quite a big one with no real funds to overhaul the squad sufficiently. At least he's a 4-2-3-1 man - but favours slower, more methodical football I'm really pleased folk are mentioning Jokanović. He was my first choice before we appointed Neil. I have a mate who's a Blades fan, and from speaking with him at the time he backs up what you're saying - that unlike AN, Jokanović wasn't backed in the summer window to buy players to suit his way of playing. As a result, he fell into the trap of trying to shoehorn players suited to Wilder's tried and trusted wing-back system into his preferred back four (same as MON and AN, but the other way round!), and it didn't work. He wouldn't have that problem with us, as by and large we already have the players that fit his preferred system. He has also proven he can bring in several new players during a summer window and have them performing immediately, as per his first full season with Fulham. He is foreign, but has considerable experience of the Championship – best of both worlds. Notwithstanding his other promotion with Watford, there is no mistaking his pedigree. He is currently out of work. I really do think we should go for him if/when we let Neil go.
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Post by itsmorethanagame on Sept 28, 2023 11:01:40 GMT
We aren't going to get anyone with a perfect CV are we though! Though i'm admittedly not aware of the full in's and out's of his reign at the Blades. I also hadn't realised we had approached him before. That's interesting. As with Neil, we know the board quite like to go back on previous targets. The fact that he's available and someone wev'e considered before could at least mean he would be one to be considered. And two promotions out of the championship isn't to be sniffed at. I would be interested to read the sheff utd article on him if you are able to dig it out. But as mentioned, we aren't going to get anyone who hasn't got a failure on their cv somewhere are we. Yeah, there's probably enough there to make him a live contender, especially with the previous interest. I can't find the article that I thought I remembered reading. Thought it must've been the Athletic, but their long read on him doesn't really stick the knife in, so don't know what I'm thinking of. Jared Dublin will have been at Sheff U during his time there, and will be aware of what went on there? www.s24su.com/forum/threads/baldock-on-jokanovic.90749/The thinking seems to be the transition from Wilderball to Slavball was quite a big one with no real funds to overhaul the squad sufficiently. At least he's a 4-2-3-1 man - but favours slower, more methodical football Interesting. The picture i am seeing is that he has come in with the promise he will be backed and have the opportunity to bring in players suited to his preferred 4231 whilst been lumped with a squad set up for Wilder's 352. The board didn't back him in the summer. He didn't get the players he needed, specifically no wingers. The change of style wasn't suited to the crop he inherited and he started to call the board out. And that was that. I can remember him playing exciting, attacking football using a 4231 system. On the face of it our squad would be fairly suited to his preferred style.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 28, 2023 11:03:55 GMT
Is it mental to suggest Dean Smith might actually not be terrible?
I mean fuck knows, I thought Neil would be good, I thought Jones would be a breath of fresh air, I know absolutely nothing.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2023 11:10:18 GMT
Surely we've reached the point where Noel Edmunds could be the man haven't we?
We've tried virtually every which way in terms of managers bar the exotic foreigner and the up and coming Steve Cooper type.
I'd be happy with a wheelie bin at this stage.
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Post by lordb on Sept 28, 2023 11:15:14 GMT
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Post by itsmorethanagame on Sept 28, 2023 12:15:53 GMT
Is it mental to suggest Dean Smith might actually not be terrible? I mean fuck knows, I thought Neil would be good, I thought Jones would be a breath of fresh air, I know absolutely nothing. Yes I think Smith would be a reasonable choice potentially. Again one who likes to play an attacking 4231. Has made some decent signings in his career. Is there anything majorly wrong with him that I am missing?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 28, 2023 12:19:59 GMT
Is it mental to suggest Dean Smith might actually not be terrible? I mean fuck knows, I thought Neil would be good, I thought Jones would be a breath of fresh air, I know absolutely nothing. Yes I think Smith would be a reasonable choice potentially. Again one who likes to play an attacking 4231. Has made some decent signings in his career. Is there anything majorly wrong with him that I am missing? I guess just that his last two stints at clubs were fairly bad. He went from job to job to job though, wonder if having had a chance to recharge his batteries he might get his mojo back at this level?
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Post by shakermaker on Sept 28, 2023 13:43:17 GMT
Yes I think Smith would be a reasonable choice potentially. Again one who likes to play an attacking 4231. Has made some decent signings in his career. Is there anything majorly wrong with him that I am missing? I guess just that his last two stints at clubs were fairly bad. He went from job to job to job though, wonder if having had a chance to recharge his batteries he might get his mojo back at this level? Smith did good things at Brentford but though he got Villa promoted, he never pulled up any trees there. It was only a spectacular winning run from Mar-Apr that got them into the playoffs (otherwise form was uninspiring), he kept them in the Premier League (just!), and the following season he had them on the cusp of Top 4 until New Year, after which their form dropped and then they tanked the following season, leading to him getting the boot. He pretty much failed at Norwich and Leicester too. He seems a good bloke - Grealish spoke highly of him when Smith left Villa - but I think he is limited tactically. Put it this way, if it was between Smith and Wilder, I would have Smith. We can do much better than either though!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 28, 2023 13:50:21 GMT
I guess just that his last two stints at clubs were fairly bad. He went from job to job to job though, wonder if having had a chance to recharge his batteries he might get his mojo back at this level? Smith did good things at Brentford but though he got Villa promoted, he never pulled up any trees there. It was only a spectacular winning run from Mar-Apr that got them into the playoffs (otherwise form was uninspiring), he kept them in the Premier League (just!), and the following season he had them on the cusp of Top 4 until New Year, after which their form dropped and then they tanked the following season, leading to him getting the boot. He pretty much failed at Norwich and Leicester too. He seems a good bloke - Grealish spoke highly of him when Smith left Villa - but I think he is limited tactically. Put it this way, if it was between Smith and Wilder, I would have Smith. We can do much better than either though! Villa's form that season looks pretty good tbf - he arrived in mid-October and they only lost another seven games all season. Agree he's probably not a Premier League manager but do wonder if he might rekindle the form of his early managerial career. Hadn't realised he'd briefly played for Vale mind...
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Post by robwahlmann on Sept 28, 2023 15:31:27 GMT
He had great success in Sweden and also with Brighton, but could he turn our luck if given the chance?
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Post by alsagerstoke on Sept 28, 2023 15:39:20 GMT
He had great success in Sweden and also with Brighton, but could he turn our luck if given the chance? Graham potter likes to play attractive football, our players in my opinion are not capable of that( I include all of our new signings barring vidigal and maybe burger)…so it would mean another reset and a flirt with ffp. We are stuck with what we have! P.s he wouldn’t come anyway
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