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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 24, 2023 14:14:10 GMT
The thing I don't understand is that Burger is a defensive midfielder who can play centre back?
Today was an ideal opportunity to play him there, holding midfielder? Having seen Gooch at udders, I'm afraid he does work hard but is limited as a footballer? Vidigal was fit enough to come on after 10 minutes but not start? Hoever, fit enough for the bench? An absolute shit show!
Travers Hoever McNally (It's a knockout giant) Wilmot Gooch Burger Laurent (Yes, I know) DJ Haks Wes Vidigal
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Post by shrewspotter on Sept 24, 2023 14:14:50 GMT
I'd love to know what the points per game we have with the 5 at backs vs the traditional back 4
When they're are 3 centre backs, nobody seems quite sure who should be marking who. Yet again they scored 2 because of inept marking
Then he plays arguably our best player this season in at wingback
He signs 3 right backs, one injury prone left back and let's one leave
When we go 2 down. Rather than admitting you are wrong and taking off a centre back and going 433 or similar, he takes off Burgur who was no worse than anyone, makes us lighter in midfield and almost billigerently leaves the tried and failed 3 centre backs
All this recruitment and we still are playing a formation we aren't comfortable with and all very lopsided
As one caller said his heart sunk, well so did mine when the teamsheet was read out
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Post by beats88 on Sept 24, 2023 14:19:13 GMT
For me, signing 17 new players but resorting to playing people out of position is unacceptable. We haven’t recruited for a back 5 yet he is playing it. Surely you need a pool of 5 CBS to choose from? It’s easy to be armchair managers but it is so blatantly obvious that playing people in the right position would improve us dramatically.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 24, 2023 14:28:05 GMT
Hull looked like a team that have been well drilled and well coached on the training ground. Crisp one or two touch passing and moving. They were a different level to Stoke today. Were they, before the fuck up of a goal there wasn't much in it, it looked more like we were getting a bit of a hold of it tbh, and then they scored and we were done.
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Tactics
Sept 24, 2023 14:30:03 GMT
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 24, 2023 14:30:03 GMT
The thing I don't understand is that Burger is a defensive midfielder who can play centre back? Today was an ideal opportunity to play him there, holding midfielder? Having seen Gooch at udders, I'm afraid he does work hard but is limited as a footballer? Vidigal was fit enough to come on after 10 minutes but not start? Hoever, fit enough for the bench? An absolute shit show! Travers Hoever McNally (It's a knockout giant) Wilmot Gooch Burger Laurent (Yes, I know) DJ Haks Wes Vidigal I don't think Vidigal was fit enough to come on that soon, he looked shot pretty soon after coming on, I think it was a case of trying to keep the shape/personnel similar to those that started so a player going off didn't have a big impact.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 24, 2023 14:35:55 GMT
The thing I don't understand is that Burger is a defensive midfielder who can play centre back? Today was an ideal opportunity to play him there, holding midfielder? Having seen Gooch at udders, I'm afraid he does work hard but is limited as a footballer? Vidigal was fit enough to come on after 10 minutes but not start? Hoever, fit enough for the bench? An absolute shit show! Travers Hoever McNally (It's a knockout giant) Wilmot Gooch Burger Laurent (Yes, I know) DJ Haks Wes Vidigal I don't think Vidigal was fit enough to come on that soon, he looked shot pretty soon after coming on, I think it was a case of trying to keep the shape/personnel similar to those that started so a player going off didn't have a big impact. Which is what Neil's just said. Fair enough but it shouldn't have been that shape to start with. Luckily Mr Neil watched Coventry do well against Hull with this shape so copied it. Laughable!
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Post by numpty40 on Sept 24, 2023 14:38:06 GMT
Hull looked like a team that have been well drilled and well coached on the training ground. Crisp one or two touch passing and moving. They were a different level to Stoke today. Were they, before the fuck up of a goal there wasn't much in it, it looked more like we were getting a bit of a hold of it tbh, and then they scored and we were done. They pissed on us, far quicker, crisp passing and movement. We looked completely bereft of ideas and laboured and plodding in possession in comparison.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 24, 2023 14:40:46 GMT
I don't think Vidigal was fit enough to come on that soon, he looked shot pretty soon after coming on, I think it was a case of trying to keep the shape/personnel similar to those that started so a player going off didn't have a big impact. Which is what Neil's just said. Fair enough but it shouldn't have been that shape to start with. Luckily Mr Neil watched Coventry do well against Hull with this shape so copied it. Laughable! I've got no problem with the shape tbh, we played well going forward mid week but Laurent shouldn't have started.
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Tactics
Sept 24, 2023 14:46:53 GMT
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Post by mtrstudent on Sept 24, 2023 14:46:53 GMT
But 5 at the back, again? Fuck off. I might have just gone back to bed on seeing the team sheet.
If you're pissing your britches defensively like AN seems to, just play 2 of Burger/Pearson/Thompson and make them play with defensive discipline.
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Sept 24, 2023 14:54:37 GMT
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Post by BuckRogers on Sept 24, 2023 14:54:37 GMT
He's just got to get rid of this 5 at back nonsense at home. Keep it simple 4 defenders 2 holding midfielders then your your 4 forwards. Which ever system. Ideally 2 wide men 1 striker one floating
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Sept 24, 2023 14:55:47 GMT
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 24, 2023 14:55:47 GMT
Did we win a header from a dead ball all game?
What was with the near post corners and no one there?Easily cleared 3 in a row. Free kick, straight at the first defender
Christie had a free header from a corner ...not learned anything at all
What do we do on the training ground? Eat Wagon Wheels is my guess
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Post by GeneralFaye on Sept 24, 2023 14:56:06 GMT
Vidigal was clearly fit to start seeing as he played 80+ minutes, there were no excuses for his selection today.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 24, 2023 14:57:27 GMT
Were they, before the fuck up of a goal there wasn't much in it, it looked more like we were getting a bit of a hold of it tbh, and then they scored and we were done. They pissed on us, far quicker, crisp passing and movement. We looked completely bereft of ideas and laboured and plodding in possession in comparison. I think we watched a different Hull 😄 Thought they were nothing more than okay until we wrapped it up in a bow for them.
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Tactics
Sept 24, 2023 14:58:34 GMT
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Post by Rick Grimes on Sept 24, 2023 14:58:34 GMT
You need specialist wing backs and at least one CB that is comfortable on the ball and capable of bringing it out of defence and we don’t have any of them.
You can maybe get away with it against bad sides like Huddersfield but you’re asking for trouble against the better sides.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 24, 2023 15:01:03 GMT
I think the mistakes that led to our downward spiral today happen whatever system we play because we clearly aren’t well drilled defensively and we look incapable of doing the basics.
We shaded that first hour then the hideous defending for the two goals killed us and Hull, as a side that was well organised, saw the game out fairly comfortably while we huffed and puffed with no real sense of what we were trying to do.
It’s bush league stuff at the back and if Neil doesn’t sort it sharpish he’ll be gone before Christmas.
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Tactics
Sept 24, 2023 15:13:11 GMT
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Post by stiggerstackle on Sept 24, 2023 15:13:11 GMT
I’d just like to think that Peter Coates would take AN to a quiet room ask him exactly ‘what the fuck are you trying to do?!?’, because I don’t know and the players certainly don’t.
We’ve tried to play with wingbacks for 3 fucking years now and we blatantly obviously can’t do it. If that’s the plan, don’t sell our best fucking one on deadline day.
We can only play 442 or 443 with these players and everybody on this board can see it, why the fuck can’t AN?!? I was on here calling for time and patience the other week, but fuck me, this perseverance with a system we just aren’t capable of playing is just dereliction of duty.
I can’t decide if he’s just a stubborn bastard who’s determined to prove himself right, or he’s just a clueless shyster that’s been found out. Either way he can fuck off, if PC pulls the trigger I genuinely don’t care. After such a positive pre-season this is as joyless as I can ever remember and it’s not even fucking October!!!!
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Post by fca47 on Sept 24, 2023 15:18:26 GMT
We were two down and Laurent was manmarking, not very well, Traore and then his replacement, the whole second half, we were supposed to be the home side. Negative tactics.
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Tactics
Sept 24, 2023 15:20:49 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2023 15:20:49 GMT
I get why people are questioning AN's tactics.
But at the end of the day , if we don't want it as much as the other lot , we lose . No matter what the tactics are .
We need a complete change in attitude and application form the players . Hull's first goal being a case in point, if Wilmott crashes into the lad with a full blooded shoulder barge , then the ref either gives a foul or he doesn't. It's either a free kick 30 yards or the ref waves play on and we are in possession. Either way, it's better than a needless goal conceded.
The players either get stuck in or we lose , no matter what the tactics are.
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Sept 24, 2023 15:22:30 GMT
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Post by jontimmis on Sept 24, 2023 15:22:30 GMT
This is even more confusing than when Pulis played Chris greenacre right midfield!
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Sept 24, 2023 15:24:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2023 15:24:43 GMT
Did we win a header from a dead ball all game? What was with the near post corners and no one there?Easily cleared 3 in a row. Free kick, straight at the first defender Christie had a free header from a corner ...not learned anything at all What do we do on the training ground? Eat Wagon Wheels is my guess According to sky we won 38 per cent of aerial duels . But not every header involves going for a 50:50 ball . In plain English, 38 per cent headers won must equate to roughly zero percent of 50 :50 headers won.
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Tactics
Sept 24, 2023 15:24:48 GMT
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Post by jontimmis on Sept 24, 2023 15:24:48 GMT
I get why people are questioning AN's tactics. But at the end of the day , if we don't want it as much as the other lot , we lose . No matter what the tactics are . We need a complete change in attitude and application form the players . Hull's first goal being a case in point, if Wilmott crashes into the lad with a full blooded shoulder barge , then the ref either gives a foul or he doesn't. It's either a free kick 30 yards or the ref waves play on and we are in possession. Either way, it's better than a needless goal conceded. The players either get stuck in or we lose , no matter what the tactics are. Agree to a certain point, but when you play in a 3 with no pace you’re gonna get exposed and that’s what happened for McNally (Bambi on ice) and Wilmot. The tactics are not helping them it’s two simple balls over the top. Getting sucked in and chasing the ball like children.
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Tactics
Sept 24, 2023 15:26:29 GMT
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Post by jontimmis on Sept 24, 2023 15:26:29 GMT
Laurent basically was playing anchor man in second half and covering that inside left of Wilmot and why would Wilmot be higher up the pitch than a midfielder?? That makes no sense……
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 24, 2023 15:27:32 GMT
This is even more confusing than when Pulis played Chris greenacre right midfield! Shy he played him at all was more confusing
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Post by biddulphchav on Sept 24, 2023 15:33:18 GMT
When I listen to AN talk tactics he seems to overcomplicate the fuck out of it. Always talks about how he’s watched the opposition and he’s doing this which means that this thing doesn’t happen which allows us to do this which stops them doing that which should give us a great chance to win the game.
We are not playing Barcelona here, we’re talking about Hull fucking City at home. How about, put players in the positions that they play best in, and try and get after the other team. Get the crowd on your side and create an atmosphere. Go for it for fucks sake.
I get the feeling AN thinks he’s some kind of tactical genius whose job it is to figure out some ingenious way to to outsmart the opposition. Right now I’d settle for watching a team that can do the basics and tries to actually get on the front foot once in a while. We are way way off that.
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Tactics
Sept 24, 2023 15:34:41 GMT
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 24, 2023 15:34:41 GMT
When I listen to AN talk tactics he seems to overcomplicate the fuck out of it. Always talks about how he’s watched the opposition and he’s doing this which means that this thing doesn’t happen which allows us to do this which stops them doing that which should give us a great chance to win the game. We are not playing Barcelona here, we’re talking about Hull fucking City at home. How about, put players in the positions that they play best in, and try and get after the other team. Get the crowd on your side and create an atmosphere. Go for it for fucks sake. I get the feeling AN thinks he’s some kind of tactical genius whose job it is to figure out some ingenious way to to outsmart the opposition. Right now I’d settle for watching a team that can do the basics and tries to actually get on the front foot once in a while. We are way way off that. What make it worse is how completely wrong he keeps getting it.
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Tactics
Sept 24, 2023 15:39:13 GMT
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Post by biddulphchav on Sept 24, 2023 15:39:13 GMT
When I listen to AN talk tactics he seems to overcomplicate the fuck out of it. Always talks about how he’s watched the opposition and he’s doing this which means that this thing doesn’t happen which allows us to do this which stops them doing that which should give us a great chance to win the game. We are not playing Barcelona here, we’re talking about Hull fucking City at home. How about, put players in the positions that they play best in, and try and get after the other team. Get the crowd on your side and create an atmosphere. Go for it for fucks sake. I get the feeling AN thinks he’s some kind of tactical genius whose job it is to figure out some ingenious way to to outsmart the opposition. Right now I’d settle for watching a team that can do the basics and tries to actually get on the front foot once in a while. We are way way off that. What make it worse is how completely wrong he keeps getting it. He talks like the championship is Serie A in the 1990’s. I really don’t think it is. Look at Ipswich, they’ve got a style of play, they have nailed it and they just impose that on other teams. We on the other hand, with the tactical genius at the helm, change systems and personnel every game, and quite often before half time these days. Rather than tactical genius, with each passing day he’s beginning to look more and more like a fraud. I sincerely hope he can get back to basics - but judging by his interview, where he said we didn’t commit to the game plan fully - he still thinks his MO is the right one. This will end in tears in November, I’d bet my house on it
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Tactics
Sept 24, 2023 15:40:25 GMT
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Post by Fred Merger on Sept 24, 2023 15:40:25 GMT
Tell that to Preston and Liam Lindsey. He was crap for us though. He wasn't great but is he worse than any of our current 3 options at CB?
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Post by chad on Sept 24, 2023 15:44:38 GMT
The fact he keeps having to change it so early, so often, says a lot about our tactics It says more about his inability to pick the correct side in the first place
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Tactics
Sept 24, 2023 15:45:41 GMT
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 24, 2023 15:45:41 GMT
The fact he keeps having to change it so early, so often, says a lot about our tactics It says more about his inability to pick the correct side in the first place Absolutely and ends up throwing subs at it in hope
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Tactics
Sept 24, 2023 16:14:34 GMT
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Post by chrispk on Sept 24, 2023 16:14:34 GMT
I just don’t get what he’s trying to do. I think most people could see the way the game was going to go before it started. 3 CB’s - Rather than making us more solid it just confuses and reduces our attacking ability. Wilmot clearly doesn’t like it and he doesn’t even things up by having a midfield with flare. Wingbacks - I like Gooch as he’s one of the few that looks like he’s trying but he’s got no end product. Has Johnson ever played wingback before? He needs to be in midfield. Play Junior and Hoever. Midfield - Where’s the creativity? As soon as I saw the 3 today my heart sank. I like Burger. Thought Thompson tried but lacks quality and don’t get me started on Laurent. We have to play Pearson with one other and either Bae or Johnson advanced. I’m not sure where AN was expecting chances to come from today. Add to that they leave loads of space to run in for the opposition. Front 3 - Vidigals a superb player but is feeding off scraps. Haks I like and he works hard but needs to take more risks. Wesley can’t finish but is a nuisance. If they get any sort of service they’ll get goals. Really poor from Neil today absolutely Schooled by Hull who were deserved winners. Couldn’t agree more with everything you have wrote. You must sit near me because I was saying this during the game. The massive open space in the middle of the park was a stroll for them . Our cb’s always had to be charging to left back or right back and leaving big spaces behind them for strikers and attacking mids to run into. We need to stick with a back 4 and an extra man in the middle of the pitch to reduce space for the opposition. 2 cb’s can just stand each side of the D and just defend ! don’t try anything else and just concentrate on their job in middle of the box.
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