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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 14:04:28 GMT
I’ve no idea what RM background was pre Norwich, he certainly wouldn’t have been on any list of names I’d have suggested for the role but in truth I’ve very little idea whether he’s good at his job. I detest the god manager model so I’d rather have him than not have the more modern structure. If he was to be replaced I wouldn’t bat an eyelid unless SS had an influence on his replacement. I’m very comfortable with the structure and perfectly happy for those in possession of the roles to get more time and for the recruitment model minus managers old lags to be continued. I’d go as far as to go full on Sunderland and only recruit players from a certain profile. The old model had plenty of opportunities to fail no idea why we’d bin this one off so soon to return to something that’s failed so regularly. Model means fuck all if the individual is not up to the job I'm extremely uncomfortable with this no mark apparently running our club He's not running the club he's running aspects of it. I mean hey give me Les Reed over him every day but I like the approach the club are taking. The god manager model has failed us on so many occasions I think it's time this different more modern model was given an opportunity. When we get to the point that we're 5 incarnations of RM down the line and things are as bad as ever or worse then I think there might be a debate to be had.
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Post by thepottypotter on Dec 24, 2023 14:05:56 GMT
Model means fuck all if the individual is not up to the job I'm extremely uncomfortable with this no mark apparently running our club He's not running the club he's running aspects of it. I mean hey give me Les Reed over him every day but I like the approach the club are taking. The god manager model has failed us on so many occasions I think it's time this different more modern model was given an opportunity. When we get to the point that we're 5 incarnations of RM down the line and things are as bad as ever or worse then I think there might be a debate to be had. Happy with the structure, RM is obviously the wrong person for the job though.
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Post by a on Dec 24, 2023 14:06:35 GMT
Get John Rudge out of retirement 😉 Judge Dredd
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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 14:06:56 GMT
He's not running the club he's running aspects of it. I mean hey give me Les Reed over him every day but I like the approach the club are taking. The god manager model has failed us on so many occasions I think it's time this different more modern model was given an opportunity. When we get to the point that we're 5 incarnations of RM down the line and things are as bad as ever or worse then I think there might be a debate to be had. Happy with the structure, RM is obviously the wrong person for the job though. Sorry why is it obvious?
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Post by thepottypotter on Dec 24, 2023 15:08:16 GMT
Happy with the structure, RM is obviously the wrong person for the job though. Sorry why is it obvious? Copying benjibiscuit’s post couple of pages ago: Under Ricky’s watch: 1. Continuing and deepening a culture of failure and apathy 2. The recruitment of a squad of players totally unsuited to this lesgue as evidenced by our league form trajectory and position 3. The destruction of our FFP headroom in the process of that failed recruitment
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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 16:14:25 GMT
Copying benjibiscuit’s post couple of pages ago: Under Ricky’s watch: 1. Continuing and deepening a culture of failure and apathy 2. The recruitment of a squad of players totally unsuited to this lesgue as evidenced by our league form trajectory and position 3. The destruction of our FFP headroom in the process of that failed recruitment 1. Complete bollocks there is no culture of accepting failure or apathy otherwise they wouldn't have bothered to remove AN. The only place it exists is in Benji and a few other fans minds. The sort who'd have been impressed if we'd have employed Sam Allardyce in short backward looking dullards. 2. The recruitment has been no worse than it has been under different structures. Our league form trajectory and position is incredibly similar to what it's been for the majority of the time post relegation. 3 FFP headroom has been in no way destroyed we were £7/10M in profit on player trading in AN's tenure and maybe a little less under MON but still millions in the black. We have yet to see accounts that clarify which way the wagebill has gone but considering the profile of many of our signings I doubt very much it's increased. Benji talks complete and utter bollocks.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2023 16:17:45 GMT
“Hmm not sure about that. Why would you want to buy their entire set up it's failed every single time it's had an opportunity at this level” Fair question. I think that they would succeed at this level at a club bigger than them, with access to more resources and funding. I don’t think it’s likely that they could turn into a Brighton, for example, but few can. Peterborough have had many years of success at unearthing decent talent. I think that their continued success was worth trying to make ours. In a completely different competitive environment I could watch the worst performer and see something he was doing that I thought I might be able to use. Can't say I ever thought of just trying to do everything exactly just like him. Pretty sure that wouldn't have been a recipe for success. They wouldn’t be doing everything the same. They would have a remit to expand their operation with Stoke given that we have more resources. We would have different goals for players etc, but as a unit, they have done very well in making Peterborough competitive and identifying talent. The same argument could be levied for RM and his current role as a technical director, one that he’s held previously at Norwich. Are we just employing to him to do exactly what he did at Norwich? No (at least, I hope not).
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 24, 2023 16:18:39 GMT
Actually he’s 100% correct In his and your opinion, I agree with Dan's opinion that Benj is chatting uneducated shite. Time will tell if it’s shite albeit current evidence supports my view , but a BSc honours degree suggests it’s not uneducated .
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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 16:28:09 GMT
In a completely different competitive environment I could watch the worst performer and see something he was doing that I thought I might be able to use. Can't say I ever thought of just trying to do everything exactly just like him. Pretty sure that wouldn't have been a recipe for success. They wouldn’t be doing everything the same. They would have a remit to expand their operation with Stoke given that we have more resources. We would have different goals for players etc, but as a unit, they have done very well in making Peterborough competitive and identifying talent. The same argument could be levied for RM and his current role as a technical director, one that he’s held previously at Norwich. Are we just employing to him to do exactly what he did at Norwich? No (at least, I hope not). Peterboro aren't competitive at this level so the people involved would have to learn the difference albeit with more resources. How is that better than people who've identified (Jared) and developed (SS and his team. Yes I know half a season is stretching it) players to do it at this level? You sound a bit like my Mrs everything you haven't got is better than what you have even if it compares favourably when examined rationally
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2023 16:37:00 GMT
They wouldn’t be doing everything the same. They would have a remit to expand their operation with Stoke given that we have more resources. We would have different goals for players etc, but as a unit, they have done very well in making Peterborough competitive and identifying talent. The same argument could be levied for RM and his current role as a technical director, one that he’s held previously at Norwich. Are we just employing to him to do exactly what he did at Norwich? No (at least, I hope not). Peterboro aren't competitive at this level so the people involved would have to learn the difference albeit with more resources. How is that better than people who've identified (Jared) and developed (SS and his team. Yes I know half a season is stretching it) players to do it at this level? You sound a bit like my Mrs everything you haven't got is better than what you have even if it compares favourably when examined rationally Well, at present, he’s had remit to come in and buy 18 players, the vast majority of which can best be described as ‘meh’. Of those that we’ve signed, perhaps Bae, Junior and Burger look like they could have decent resale value. We’ve brought in what, 5?, attacking players, and I don’t expect any of them to get 10 goals this season. I wouldn’t replace him. It would screw Stoke dramatically. I’d like to hope that SS can tune up the squad. My initial point was that I’d have preferred a different option at the beginning. Now that we have RM, we have to stick with him for a while. It’s the challenge with this model. He can run the club into the ground, blame the manager and sack 2-3 of them before it’s completely on him. Then, everyone would need to start again anyways.
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Post by stokiedan17 on Dec 24, 2023 16:37:31 GMT
In his and your opinion, I agree with Dan's opinion that Benj is chatting uneducated shite. Time will tell if it’s shite albeit current evidence supports my view , but a BSc honours degree suggests it’s not uneducated . You can get a BSc hons in Harry Potter. Doesn’t mean you’re intelligent. Just means you know something about a single
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Post by silsdenstokie on Dec 24, 2023 16:40:37 GMT
Get John Rudge out of retirement 😉 Judge Dredd Vale through and through but he’ll always have my respect for Peter Hoekstra 👏👌
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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 16:45:47 GMT
Peterboro aren't competitive at this level so the people involved would have to learn the difference albeit with more resources. How is that better than people who've identified (Jared) and developed (SS and his team. Yes I know half a season is stretching it) players to do it at this level? You sound a bit like my Mrs everything you haven't got is better than what you have even if it compares favourably when examined rationally Well, at present, he’s had remit to come in and buy 18 players, the vast majority of which can best be described as ‘meh’. Of those that we’ve signed, perhaps Bae, Junior and Burger look like they could have decent resale value. We’ve brought in what, 5?, attacking players, and I don’t expect any of them to get 10 goals this season. I wouldn’t replace him. It would screw Stoke dramatically. I’d like to hope that SS can tune up the squad. My initial point was that I’d have preferred a different option at the beginning. Now that we have RM, we have to stick with him for a while. It’s the challenge with this model. He can run the club into the ground, blame the manager and sack 2-3 of them before it’s completely on him. Then, everyone would need to start again anyways. Why are you trying to lay recruitment at his door. He's involved to an extent but most of the Summer signings had AN or Jared's fingerprints all over them. RM's main task was to conclude deals for players that had been arrived at by collaboration. If you've a problem with resale value who are the players we've signed we're likely to lose a packet on?I must be missing them.
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Post by Gabrielzakuaniandjuliet on Dec 24, 2023 16:49:31 GMT
Surely having four rbs and half a left back is primarily on him? The recruitment team actually found decent players for the most part, especially the ones we paid money for.
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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 16:59:20 GMT
Surely having four rbs and half a left back is primarily on him? The recruitment team actually found decent players for the most part, especially the ones we paid money for. The LB situation is on all of them I don't see how RM can be singled out. The signing are a mixed bag as you'd expect. I can't see any massive losses on the horizon. We'll have to make a decision on Mmaee sooner rather than later. We paid €2M up front with nearly as much again in add ons. There will come a point we'll have to stop persevering with him to avoid them, I'm not optimistic there. I don't think anyone deserves to be slated for the business we did but we certainly didn't get everything we needed, yet again no surprise there given the scale of the task.
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Post by stokiedan17 on Dec 24, 2023 17:10:13 GMT
Surely having four rbs and half a left back is primarily on him? The recruitment team actually found decent players for the most part, especially the ones we paid money for. I don't think anyone deserves to be slated for the business we did but we certainly didn't get everything we needed, yet again no surprise there given the scale of the task. Exactly this. We’ve signed some good players and we’ve signed some bad. Not everything works out. If it did we’d be winning the premier league every year.
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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 17:15:38 GMT
I don't think anyone deserves to be slated for the business we did but we certainly didn't get everything we needed, yet again no surprise there given the scale of the task. Exactly this. We’ve signed some good players and we’ve signed some bad. Not everything works out. If it did we’d be winning the premier league every year. Best managers/collaborative efforts I've ever seen in my lifetime get it wrong around 50% of the time. Give me a manager and I'll find you their aberrations.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2023 17:38:05 GMT
Well, at present, he’s had remit to come in and buy 18 players, the vast majority of which can best be described as ‘meh’. Of those that we’ve signed, perhaps Bae, Junior and Burger look like they could have decent resale value. We’ve brought in what, 5?, attacking players, and I don’t expect any of them to get 10 goals this season. I wouldn’t replace him. It would screw Stoke dramatically. I’d like to hope that SS can tune up the squad. My initial point was that I’d have preferred a different option at the beginning. Now that we have RM, we have to stick with him for a while. It’s the challenge with this model. He can run the club into the ground, blame the manager and sack 2-3 of them before it’s completely on him. Then, everyone would need to start again anyways. Why are you trying to lay recruitment at his door. He's involved to an extent but most of the Summer signings had AN or Jared's fingerprints all over them. RM's main task was to conclude deals for players that had been arrived at by collaboration. If you've a problem with resale value who are the players we've signed we're likely to lose a packet on?I must be missing them. He hired JD and kept AN. Their failures are his failures. Their successes are his successes as well. That’s how management works.
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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 17:56:04 GMT
Why are you trying to lay recruitment at his door. He's involved to an extent but most of the Summer signings had AN or Jared's fingerprints all over them. RM's main task was to conclude deals for players that had been arrived at by collaboration. If you've a problem with resale value who are the players we've signed we're likely to lose a packet on?I must be missing them. He hired JD and kept AN. Their failures are his failures. Their successes are his successes as well. That’s how management works. I asked you what players you deem we'd lose a packet on. The fact you haven't provided any leads me to believe your position on JD is irrational. The fact we maybe kept AN longer than might have been relates back to the fact that AN was involved in the recruitment of RM a situation I have never been happy with. Hopefully John probably being unable to reveal or discuss his thinking leading up to AN's dismissal has awakened him to not allowing those roles to become too entwined . He needs to be able to trust his DoF technical/sporting director not to leak to his friend and to line up the manager/head coaches replacement behind the scenes. Les Reed keeps a dossier on every position on the field and backroom staff should they need to be replaced, hell he probably even has a list of viable alternatives to himself. Brilliant DoF, shit manager.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 24, 2023 18:28:05 GMT
I don't think anyone deserves to be slated for the business we did but we certainly didn't get everything we needed, yet again no surprise there given the scale of the task. Exactly this. We’ve signed some good players and we’ve signed some bad. Not everything works out. If it did we’d be winning the premier league every year. We’ve signed one decent player we own with a chance of resale value you could do better with a blindfold and a pin
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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 18:34:52 GMT
Exactly this. We’ve signed some good players and we’ve signed some bad. Not everything works out. If it did we’d be winning the premier league every year. We’ve signed one decent player we own with a chance of resale value you could do better with a blindfold and a pin As a matter of interest who would we lose substantial money on and would that not be easily offset by potential profits?
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Post by Gods on Dec 24, 2023 18:37:52 GMT
Exactly this. We’ve signed some good players and we’ve signed some bad. Not everything works out. If it did we’d be winning the premier league every year. We’ve signed one decent player we own with a chance of resale value you could do better with a blindfold and a pin I assumed we did seek recourse to a pin and a blindfold. I hope R.Martin and J.Dublin and not front and centre of any January recruitment.
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 24, 2023 18:38:53 GMT
Martin is a lottery winner who has swallowed a corporate bullshit text book. Get him gone.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 24, 2023 18:41:39 GMT
We’ve signed one decent player we own with a chance of resale value you could do better with a blindfold and a pin As a matter of interest who would we lose substantial money on and would that not be easily offset by potential profits? Mmaee vidigal , juno , jokic would all fetch bugger all combined outlay not insignificant Pearson and Johnson stick on the wage bill the former for 4 years. , Wesley abject waste of wages for a year. betwern that lot you’ve wasted the Jacob brown fee and the Tymon fee easily
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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 18:43:47 GMT
Martin is a lottery winner who had swallowed a corporate bullshit text book. Get him gone. Worked with numerous people who could do that when it suited them. Many of them were very good at their job, knew all the buzz words and phrases that those in a position to further their career wanted to hear. It's never been for me but it doesn't make them wank at what they do.
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 24, 2023 18:47:16 GMT
Martin is a lottery winner who had swallowed a corporate bullshit text book. Get him gone. Worked with numerous people who could do that when it suited them. Many of them were very good at their job, knew all the buzz words and phrases that those in a position to further their career wanted to hear. It's never been for me but it doesn't make them wank at what they do. Evidence so far is that he's not very good at his job - we're in a relegation fight. He's basically brought in StS to save his skin. Absolute snake oil salesman.
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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 18:47:34 GMT
As a matter of interest who would we lose substantial money on and would that not be easily offset by potential profits? Mmaee vidigal , juno , jokic would all fetch bugger all combined outlay not insignificant Pearson and Johnson stick on the wage bill the former for 4 years. , Wesley abject waste of wages for a year. betwern that lot you’ve wasted the Jacob brown fee and the Tymon fee easily Just can't agree with that whatsoever. The only significant loss I see there is Mmaee €2M up front. Shows you haven't got a clue what you're talking about Sam Surridge, Doughty? Invest in the right profile players you don't lose all your money. Are you really trying to lay Johnson and Pearson at RM's door. Fool.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 24, 2023 18:52:44 GMT
Mmaee vidigal , juno , jokic would all fetch bugger all combined outlay not insignificant Pearson and Johnson stick on the wage bill the former for 4 years. , Wesley abject waste of wages for a year. betwern that lot you’ve wasted the Jacob brown fee and the Tymon fee easily Just can't agree with that whatsoever. The only significant loss I see there is Mmaee €2M up front. Shows you haven't got a clue what you're talking about Sam Surridge, Doughty? Invest in the right profile players you don't lose all your money. Are you really trying to lay Johnson and Pearson at RM's door. Fool. He is responsible all football related matters are yiu suggesting if SS suggest Neville southall and we sign him Martin is not accountable . essentially he accepted Neil’s old boys as one himself and added a complete pile of crap to them I 1005 disagree any of those have value either
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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 18:59:48 GMT
Just can't agree with that whatsoever. The only significant loss I see there is Mmaee €2M up front. Shows you haven't got a clue what you're talking about Sam Surridge, Doughty? Invest in the right profile players you don't lose all your money. Are you really trying to lay Johnson and Pearson at RM's door. Fool. He is responsible all football related matters are yiu suggesting if SS suggest Neville southall and we sign him Martin is not accountable . essentially he accepted Neil’s old boys as one himself and added a complete pile of crap to them I 1005 disagree any of those have value either That’s because you’re a 1005moron.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2023 20:06:31 GMT
He hired JD and kept AN. Their failures are his failures. Their successes are his successes as well. That’s how management works. I asked you what players you deem we'd lose a packet on. The fact you haven't provided any leads me to believe your position on JD is irrational. The fact we maybe kept AN longer than might have been relates back to the fact that AN was involved in the recruitment of RM a situation I have never been happy with. Hopefully John probably being unable to reveal or discuss his thinking leading up to AN's dismissal has awakened him to not allowing those roles to become too entwined . He needs to be able to trust his DoF technical/sporting director not to leak to his friend and to line up the manager/head coaches replacement behind the scenes. Les Reed keeps a dossier on every position on the field and backroom staff should they need to be replaced, hell he probably even has a list of viable alternatives to himself. Brilliant DoF, shit manager. At present, Mmaee and Wesley have cost a good chunk of money in wages/signing-on fees. They are our two striking options. We are one of, if not the lowest scorers in the league. We won’t keep Wesley beyond this season, so that looks like a very expensive gamble. Mmaee doesn’t look likely to succeed in my opinion. He’s kind of just meh. Pearson has been pretty tripe too. Hoever was an expensive loan, not done much. Travers was a massive risk and we are paying for it. I’m not sure how you can look at one of the worst teams in the league for goals scored/created, a team that can’t play 90 mins without one of their defenders or goalkeepers dropping a clanger, and think that JD and RM haven’t been underwhelming at present.
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