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Post by gingerninja on Apr 9, 2024 11:51:14 GMT
I found at times it almost sounded like SJW was speaking as if he was the manager 🤔
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Post by thisisouryear on Apr 9, 2024 11:51:18 GMT
I love Walters and he speaks very well but taking my rose tinted glasses off he's massively inexperienced. It may well work out but on paper this is another poor decision by Jon Coates. On the positive side nobody will work harder than Walters and he's always been an over achiever so it's not like there is no hope. I still think we should have gone for someone like MON who has been a manager and would be more equipped to deal with another manager/Coaches needs. Having someone like Walters to work with someone like MON would have been the best way in my opinion. How can it be a poor decision if it works out? It's a huge gamble, a club our size shouldn't need to be taking such risks. Walters has never had to help a manager build a team before and there is no proof he can. I'm all for Walters working under someone who has experience in the role first but he's been thrown in the deep end as it looks. If Walters weren't an ex Stoke player nearly every message here would be very critical of this decision.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Apr 9, 2024 11:59:42 GMT
How can it be a poor decision if it works out? It's a huge gamble, a club our size shouldn't need to be taking such risks. Walters has never had to help a manager build a team before and there is no proof he can. I'm all for Walters working under someone who has experience in the role first but he's been thrown in the deep end as it looks. If Walters weren't an ex Stoke player nearly every message here would be very critical of this decision. But thats the point, he got it because hes an ex player who also appears to have the skills to motivate and ensure we don't sign any more knob heads
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Post by foxysgloves on Apr 9, 2024 12:07:40 GMT
You’re seriously saying you don’t think it’s important if a player is fit enough to start a game? And not alone that, but a ‘cup final’? You’d go into a game fielding players who aren’t fit and therefore won’t be anywhere near their best? Words fail me. Our actual Cup final we played two of our best players despite both being unfit Didn't work Macari second spell we should have won the play offs but ended up completely flat as the first team were flogged relentlessly due to lack of (for whatever reason) back up players The Championship is a slog, some degree of rotation is essential however FFP means we simply can't have 25 or so players of equal quality Exactly. It’s a bit of a no brainer really. But Bayern always knows best!
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Post by stokeoptimist on Apr 9, 2024 12:09:49 GMT
How can it be a poor decision if it works out? It's a huge gamble, a club our size shouldn't need to be taking such risks. Walters has never had to help a manager build a team before and there is no proof he can. I'm all for Walters working under someone who has experience in the role first but he's been thrown in the deep end as it looks. If Walters weren't an ex Stoke player nearly every message here would be very critical of this decision. Every decision is a gamble, how can you not see that? Every player signed, every manager appointed is a gamble. Nothing in football is assured, nothing guaranteed. Luck plays a massive part otherwise unexpected results would never happen. It baffles me sometimes the comments on here they really do. We should beat them because they are bottom. He's shit because he hasn't scored in ten games. We win a couple of games and we are going up, lose a couple and we are down.
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Post by foxysgloves on Apr 9, 2024 12:13:53 GMT
It's a huge gamble, a club our size shouldn't need to be taking such risks. Walters has never had to help a manager build a team before and there is no proof he can. I'm all for Walters working under someone who has experience in the role first but he's been thrown in the deep end as it looks. If Walters weren't an ex Stoke player nearly every message here would be very critical of this decision. Every decision is a gamble, how can you not see that? Every player signed, every manager appointed is a gamble. Nothing in football is assured, nothing guaranteed. Luck plays a massive part otherwise unexpected results would never happen. It baffles me sometimes the comments on here they really do. We should beat them because they are bottom. He's shit because he hasn't scored in ten games. We win a couple of games and we are going up, lose a couple and we are down. Completely sensible and logical post. Unfortunately some posters (we know which ones) like to pretend they know all the answers and can predict the future. There’s no doubt the Walters decision is a gamble. Then again it was a gamble signing him to play in the Premier League when he was apparently a lower league journeyman. That didn’t work out too bad though.
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Post by loosestools on Apr 9, 2024 12:20:39 GMT
I think its a great appointment, at least he has the motivation and most importantly the humility and honesty to succeed.
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Post by thornestein on Apr 9, 2024 12:23:38 GMT
Every decision is a gamble, how can you not see that? Every player signed, every manager appointed is a gamble. Nothing in football is assured, nothing guaranteed. Luck plays a massive part otherwise unexpected results would never happen. It baffles me sometimes the comments on here they really do. We should beat them because they are bottom. He's shit because he hasn't scored in ten games. We win a couple of games and we are going up, lose a couple and we are down. Completely sensible and logical post. Unfortunately some posters (we know which ones) like to pretend they know all the answers and can predict the future. There’s no doubt the Walters decision is a gamble. Then again it was a gamble signing him to play in the Premier League when he was apparently a lower league journeyman. That didn’t work out too bad though. it is a gamble , and i’m sure most would have preferred someone with more experience, but i’ve not seen anyone post an alternative ( except MoN which is out the question since he’s back at NI ) , were a relegation threatened club so who would want it
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Post by nottsover60 on Apr 9, 2024 12:24:22 GMT
He will go with this: Iversen Hoever Rose McNally Stevens Thompson Burger Baker Leris Ennis Vidigal There’s a few toss ups there though. Is Thompson fit enough? If he is then it’s a coin toss between Baker and Laurent. But I thought Laurent look fucked. Ennis and Campbell too. Campbell did well when he came on but Ennis gives you legs. So think he will go with Ennis. Vidi or Bae - good opportunity to rest Bae and give a shot player who scored in the last game a go. Not sure he should be doing that but there’s a bit of logic there. And it’s not like he’s starting a complete blocker there. Again that team has balance and enough to nick a win away. I’d probably go with Campbell on the right myself as I think he’d run rings around Tymon. But Leris should destroy him in the air. I thought you just pick your best team irrespective of who’s tired or not 100%? Isn’t that what you said in relation to Burger? And when I suggested Bae needed a rest before he picked up a fatigue related injury!
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Post by Mint Berry Barks on Apr 9, 2024 12:29:35 GMT
Listen, I've absolutely no idea how the inner workings of football club operate or what a Sporting Director actually does - but we really need something to go right for the first time in fucking years.
I'm still not enamoured with how the club is being run and it's going to take a while for me to trust the ownership again.
Let's hope it works.
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Post by nottsover60 on Apr 9, 2024 12:34:55 GMT
I'm just curious as to how SJW will react if a player threatens to go on strike, because the club won't sell him. That is after all what SJW did himself towards the end of his career, when Burnley came in for him, and at first was turned away. I didn't know that had happened? I knew Roy Keane claimed he did it at Ipswich to force a move to Stoke. Didn't Walters deny it claiming he had to send a photo of his vomit to the club as proof he was ill?
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Apr 9, 2024 13:03:08 GMT
Our actual Cup final we played two of our best players despite both being unfit Didn't work Macari second spell we should have won the play offs but ended up completely flat as the first team were flogged relentlessly due to lack of (for whatever reason) back up players The Championship is a slog, some degree of rotation is essential however FFP means we simply can't have 25 or so players of equal quality Exactly. It’s a bit of a no brainer really. But Bayern always knows best! Nailed on for relegation aren't we?
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Apr 9, 2024 13:18:39 GMT
Listen, I've absolutely no idea how the inner workings of football club operate or what a Sporting Director actually does - but we really need something to go right for the first time in fucking years. I'm still not enamoured with how the club is being run and it's going to take a while for me to trust the ownership again. Let's hope it works. Basically where I am. I have very little faith in the owners making right decisions and that applies to this one too. I can see some positives in this. He talks very well, has talked a lot about getting the right characters in the dressing room which has clearly been a problem for us over a number of years and hopefully he can have a positive impact from that point of view. But he's undoubtedly a gamble and completely unproven in that role. And we've tried the 'former player who knows the club DNA' thing before with Delap and Shawcross having coaching jobs and neither appear to have made any great impact. Although admittedly their jobs didn't involve recruitment in the way that Walters will.
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Post by DC1863 on Apr 9, 2024 13:33:34 GMT
You could buy the club or do something public to show your dissatisfaction in the hope that the owners will make changes or sell up? Failing that you could just continue to whine on a message board about how shit the owners are. Either way I'm not really sure what you expect ordinary fans to do, many of whom simply want to turn up and see their team win on a weekend. Others would rather just look forward to what could happen instead of constantly looking back about what has happened......... Then they are part of the problem. What exactly makes you any different from them Bayern? The ordinary fans? I've seen you post stuff like this numerous times over the past few years, about how you've been 'right' and people should've listened to you. Do you interact with many fans outside of this messageboard? Because amongst fans travelling to every away game there's no naivety. Do you think incessantly posting thousands of messages pointing out the club's failures somehow makes you're opinion more valid? There are thousands of fans with the same views and concerns, they just don't post on here daily, or have more important things in their life. Honestly, have you applied for the supporters council or a job at the club if your knowledge is so much more valid than ordinary fans?
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Post by thisisouryear on Apr 9, 2024 13:37:14 GMT
It's a huge gamble, a club our size shouldn't need to be taking such risks. Walters has never had to help a manager build a team before and there is no proof he can. I'm all for Walters working under someone who has experience in the role first but he's been thrown in the deep end as it looks. If Walters weren't an ex Stoke player nearly every message here would be very critical of this decision. But thats the point, he got it because hes an ex player who also appears to have the skills to motivate and ensure we don't sign any more knob heads Building a team is a little more complicated than just players having a good character
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 9, 2024 13:45:38 GMT
Then they are part of the problem. What exactly makes you any different from them Bayern? The ordinary fans? I've seen you post stuff like this numerous times over the past few years, about how you've been 'right' and people should've listened to you. Do you interact with many fans outside of this messageboard? Because amongst fans travelling to every away game there's no naivety. Do you think incessantly posting thousands of messages pointing out the club's failures somehow makes you're opinion more valid? There are thousands of fans with the same views and concerns, they just don't post on here daily, or have more important things in their life. Honestly, have you applied for the supporters council or a job at the club if your knowledge is so much more valid than ordinary fans? The Supporters Council was a pointless exercise in whataboutery.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Apr 9, 2024 14:43:40 GMT
What exactly makes you any different from them Bayern? The ordinary fans? I've seen you post stuff like this numerous times over the past few years, about how you've been 'right' and people should've listened to you. Do you interact with many fans outside of this messageboard? Because amongst fans travelling to every away game there's no naivety. Do you think incessantly posting thousands of messages pointing out the club's failures somehow makes you're opinion more valid? There are thousands of fans with the same views and concerns, they just don't post on here daily, or have more important things in their life. Honestly, have you applied for the supporters council or a job at the club if your knowledge is so much more valid than ordinary fans? The Supporters Council was a pointless exercise in whataboutery. I agree with that Moxey used to call them the token lot . Had to agree with him
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Post by DC1863 on Apr 9, 2024 14:48:56 GMT
What exactly makes you any different from them Bayern? The ordinary fans? I've seen you post stuff like this numerous times over the past few years, about how you've been 'right' and people should've listened to you. Do you interact with many fans outside of this messageboard? Because amongst fans travelling to every away game there's no naivety. Do you think incessantly posting thousands of messages pointing out the club's failures somehow makes you're opinion more valid? There are thousands of fans with the same views and concerns, they just don't post on here daily, or have more important things in their life. Honestly, have you applied for the supporters council or a job at the club if your knowledge is so much more valid than ordinary fans? The Supporters Council was a pointless exercise in whataboutery. Perhaps, although that's not really what I asked, how about all of the other points?
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 9, 2024 15:09:08 GMT
How is it incorrect? 🤣 There was far more lax ffp rules and we could have done what we wanted if we wanted to. We could have made ourselves a top 6-10 club if we wanted to. Clearly if Coates said we were punching then there was no appetite for that which is a real shame. And tbh what’s the fucking point if you’ve got all that money? You look at Brighton and the stadium, training ground and academy they have as a legacy. We kind of have that but everything to a much lower level. The new improvement to the training ground though is much needed but still won’t put it amongst the best. And I don’t think for the money they have, that is too much to ask for. It just seems like a great opportunity missed. What is the legacy? Not much and that’s the sad reality of it. I enjoyed it lots thanks. You think Brighton are going to be around in the top flight forever do you? Let’s see where they are in five years. Their “best of the rest” crown that they took from us is starting to slip along with Brentford. There’s no such thing as a “top 6-10 club” for us at that level. You’ve got the massive superpowers, and then the rest of us who just keep swapping places and fighting either to stay up or come back up. Exactly, 'pushing on' for most clubs in the PL is staying in the Division for a reasonable amount of time. Historically we have been one of the most successful examples. Chances are unless you are in the top 7 wealthiest (inc Newcastle now) you are part of cycle of brief success stories and then eventually relegation. Villa are having a great season but they will never sustain that kind of position over a few seasons.
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 9, 2024 15:32:26 GMT
But thats the point, he got it because hes an ex player who also appears to have the skills to motivate and ensure we don't sign any more knob heads Building a team is a little more complicated than just players having a good character That said, character has probably been our weakest point for ages. The dream team for me would be Schuey wanting to be positive, Walters vetting for character and Bet365 nerds using stats to pick out gems.
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Post by gingerninja on Apr 9, 2024 15:55:22 GMT
Interesting comment about having a smaller squad next season?.. there would have to be quite a purge to get to that state?.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 9, 2024 16:31:51 GMT
The Supporters Council was a pointless exercise in whataboutery. Perhaps, although that's not really what I asked, how about all of the other points? I’ve answered stuff like that numerous times. It’s boring.
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Post by DC1863 on Apr 9, 2024 16:49:13 GMT
Perhaps, although that's not really what I asked, how about all of the other points? I’ve answered stuff like that numerous times. It’s boring. You're right, it is boring repeating the same points on a messageboard, it's boring reading them too.
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Post by Marc01 on Apr 9, 2024 18:50:34 GMT
Was anyone touting Jon Walters as a possible / obvious appointment when there were calls for RM to go? Regarding the comments on JW: He is a “lazy” appointment His experience at Fleetwood is insufficient Dealing with all footballing aspects of the club is too much Such comments imply that those making them are aware of some experience and special formula that is needed for success in this role. But it’s not like we need him to build a nuclear power plant! It’s a football club. Enthusiasm and dedication is a key quality. So if you’re not happy with JW: Who would have you gone for? What was their first appointment to such a role? What relevant experience did they have before that appointment? On the previous experience aspect you can contrast: John Rudge: An ex player and manager who seemingly did a good job as DoF at Stoke. Monchi: DoF at Sevilla, Roma, Sevilla again and now Aston Villa… He retired from playing and took up the DoF roll immediately… en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MonchiFor different reasons, both might have been classed as lazy appointments, but that didn’t matter in the end…
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Post by skip on Apr 9, 2024 19:00:12 GMT
The Supporters Council was a pointless exercise in whataboutery. I agree with that Moxey used to call them the token lot . Had to agree with him Moxey only ever placated the fans, no more no less.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Apr 9, 2024 19:01:10 GMT
I agree with that Moxey used to call them the token lot . Had to agree with him Moxey only ever placated the fans, no more no less. He was good to the fans. Often gave free tickets away
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Apr 9, 2024 21:37:03 GMT
But thats the point, he got it because hes an ex player who also appears to have the skills to motivate and ensure we don't sign any more knob heads Building a team is a little more complicated than just players having a good character Of course it is (that’s assumed) but that wasn’t the point. The point is we’ve not installed a culture, we’ve continuously signed players unfit for purpose.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Apr 10, 2024 8:11:01 GMT
One thing that is actually new around the backroom staff is the relative age being so young.
Shumacher is a very young coach, and Walters is obviously still very young for Director of Football standards.
Now normally you would say that age and experience is what is needed in football - but I really think times have changed over the past 15 years of modern football.
Old dinosaurs are struggling to do well, and indeed theres a lot of young dynamic coaches that are really changing things. The same can be said with some young Football directors at certain clubs.
I dont think Walters has the best credentials for the job by a long way. But we have trod the "experienced" path far too many times for my liking. Having someone young with energy and enthusiasm, and hopefully more modern ideas is at least something different down Stoke.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Apr 10, 2024 8:53:12 GMT
One thing that is actually new around the backroom staff is the relative age being so young. Shumacher is a very young coach, and Walters is obviously still very young for Director of Football standards. Now normally you would say that age and experience is what is needed in football - but I really think times have changed over the past 15 years of modern football. Old dinosaurs are struggling to do well, and indeed theres a lot of young dynamic coaches that are really changing things. The same can be said with some young Football directors at certain clubs. I dont think Walters has the best credentials for the job by a long way. But we have trod the "experienced" path far too many times for my liking. Having someone young with energy and enthusiasm, and hopefully more modern ideas is at least something different down Stoke. I agree to a large extent. I’d make two comments; 1. You improve with experience, you never stop learning and it’s never wrong to consult with one those who’ve faced and overcome similar problems in the past. 2. Fashions change, the basics don’t
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 10, 2024 9:02:23 GMT
Interesting comment about having a smaller squad next season?.. there would have to be quite a purge to get to that state?. Not really - we'd just have let those out of contract and on loan go. Even if we aim for a smaller squad we are still going to have to recruit to be viable.
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