|
|
Post by stokeuk474 on Sept 15, 2023 10:55:24 GMT
Been a spate of recent dog attacks all quite close together which is unusual.
Does anybody even know what breed Sunak is referring to? No, because he doesn't know.
The overwhelming majority of large dogs are not dangerous and don't just randomly attack people on the street. I have a Cane Corso cross and he weighs 40kg but he's soft as anything and is a big baby in all honesty.
|
|
|
|
Post by wagsastokie on Sept 15, 2023 11:03:29 GMT
Been a spate of recent dog attacks all quite close together which is unusual. Does anybody even know what breed Sunak is referring to? No, because he doesn't know. The overwhelming majority of large dogs are not dangerous and don't just randomly attack people on the street. I have a Cane Corso cross and he weighs 40kg but he's soft as anything and is a big baby in all honesty. It’s more than often the owner not the dog These XL bully’s are currently the preferred breed of the debt enforcers You go on sites like gumtree and you will find plenty of adverts for this dog both old and puppies The people who I feel sorry for are the owners of loving types of this breed who might well find themselves having to put down a perfectly well behaved dog |
|
|
|
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 15, 2023 11:03:33 GMT
It's exactly what he says it is, XL Bully dogs and he's right to do so.
Seems he knows exactly what he's talking about
|
|
|
|
Post by stokeuk474 on Sept 15, 2023 11:08:11 GMT
It's exactly what he says it is, XL Bully dogs and he's right to do so. Seems he knows exactly what he's talking about It is not a recognised breed in the UK. It's ambiguous. The Americans recognise it as that's where these dogs were originally bred but it's relatively recent in the grand scheme of things. As wags said, it's the way they are bred, trained and the way the owner interacts with them that causes this sort of thing. I also feel sorry for all those well behaved dogs and their owners who are now going to be put in a ridiculous situation. |
|
|
|
Post by tigermoth on Sept 15, 2023 11:11:03 GMT
I thought they already were banned . Pit bulls, that big Argentinian breed of dog and a few others?
|
|
|
|
Post by svengaliinplatforms on Sept 15, 2023 11:14:25 GMT
Whilst some may be no more likely to attack you than say, a Cockapoo, the damage that they can inflict, is significantly worse.
Dog owners shouldn't be in a position whereby there are 'no go areas' to walk your dog, but that's where we are at.
Big, powerful, bred-for-aggression dogs, under the control of inexperienced/irresponsible/disrespectful owners, is a recipe for disaster.
|
|
|
|
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 15, 2023 11:19:32 GMT
I thought they already were banned . Pit bulls, that big Argentinian breed of dog and a few others? I know someone who was bitten by one of these XL dogs outside a shop about 2 years ago, punctured his lip and was lucky it wasn't a lot worse only he fought it off . Fella ran off with the dog. Imagine if it was a kid . About time something was done. Obviously someone was trying to start a political debate by saying he doesn't know what he's talking about . |
|
|
|
Post by tigermoth on Sept 15, 2023 11:28:08 GMT
I thought they already were banned . Pit bulls, that big Argentinian breed of dog and a few others? I know someone who was bitten by one of these XL dogs outside a shop about 2 years ago, punctured his lip and was lucky it wasn't a lot worse only he fought it off . Fella ran off with the dog. Imagine if it was a kid . About time something was done. Obviously someone was trying to start a political debate by saying he doesn't know what he's talking about . No doubt about it mate, everything seems to be an excuse to score cheap political points on here. Personally I believe 99.9% of dogs are a reflection of their owners. Some dogs naturally have a different temperament due to breeding, a pit bull in general is obviously going to have more natural aggression than one of them King Charles Cavalier things . I'd probably agree with some kind of regulation for certain breeds due to the amount of damage they can cause if they decide to turn nasty but I think I'd draw a line on an outright ban. |
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on Sept 15, 2023 11:33:26 GMT
Good news and I hope it's effective, but should not have got to this stage.
Feeling sorry for responsible owners is ok, but what about the family of this person who has been murdered? It's obviously becoming more prevalent. 10 killed by dogs last year and looks like similar this year. It's 10 too many.
But I just wonder why would someone want to own a dog like this in the first place, a kind of dog which does visibly terrify many people, even it doesn't injure them.
There are plenty of ways of entertaining yourself in a non-threatening way than owning a dog that shits people up and is a potential killer.
I used to enjoy walking around the park but alot of dogs these days terrify me tbh and there are too many dangerous looking dogs off leads. It's ok owners saying 'oh he's lovely really' but how do I know that when it's galloping towards me.
If it's a case of owners, there needs to be more rigorous processes in place to make everyone feel safe.
|
|
|
|
Post by phileetin on Sept 15, 2023 11:36:40 GMT
is there any penalty on the owners of these dogs (other than destroying the dog ) when it attacks anyone ? if not there should be , that might encourage them to be more responsible .
|
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Sept 15, 2023 11:38:32 GMT
I thought they already were banned . Pit bulls, that big Argentinian breed of dog and a few others? I know someone who was bitten by one of these XL dogs outside a shop about 2 years ago, punctured his lip and was lucky it wasn't a lot worse only he fought it off . Fella ran off with the dog. Imagine if it was a kid . About time something was done. Obviously someone was trying to start a political debate by saying he doesn't know what he's talking about . I thought it was quite obvious what 474 was saying. I'll quote directly from Sunak "Today I have tasked ministers to bring together police and experts, to firstly define the breed of dog behind these attacks, with the view to then outlawing it. "It is not currently a breed defined in law, so this vital first step must happen fast" You can't enact legislation to ban something you can't define. The purpose to define this specific type of Dog is to avoid unintended consequences of banning perfectly safe dogs |
|
|
|
Post by dexter97 on Sept 15, 2023 11:40:59 GMT
Am I missing something by suggesting that enforced muzzling of any dog above a certain size / strength seems an obvious place to start?
I'd like to think that there could be some kind of training and licencing of owners of these potentially lethal machines, but I don't suppose the type of owners of the dogs that attack will be likely to comply with the requirement.
|
|
|
|
Post by svengaliinplatforms on Sept 15, 2023 11:42:29 GMT
Am I missing something by suggesting that enforced muzzling of any dog above a certain size / strength seems an obvious place to start? I'd like to think that there could be some kind of training and licencing of owners of these potentially lethal machines, but I don't suppose the type of owners of the dogs that attack will be likely to comply with the requirement. Correct, and there'll be no-one around to police it, either. |
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Sept 15, 2023 11:42:42 GMT
I blame the owners myself and that's part of the problem, the fact nearly anyone can get a dog with little to no handling experience.
I've had dogs of mine attacked by bigger dogs which have escaped and seen my dog thrown about like a rag doll which isn't a nice experience.
My current dog came from the dogs Trust and he has amazing recall and temperament although I suppose its expected being a Yorkie. But I walk him off the lead everywhere and he stops on command everytime.
I do sometimes consider carrying a fishing knife with me when walking the dog due to past experiences and living in an area where alot of this bigger breeds would be walked. Obviously I don't at the moment but the more you read stories like this and having had previous encounters, it does make me think I should be prepared.
What annoys me most or some of the idiots who own dogs and let them off the lead to run wild and annoy and torture every dog. And then they show up 5 mins later and say "he's just playing". Just because your dog likes to play doesn't mean every other dog does and that's part of the problem. Sick of seeing dogs on leads who may be on a lead for a good reason being teased by other dogs off a lead with no owner in site.
Luckily my dog won't go after other dogs or more than a few metres from me so I don't have that to worry about. I am tempted sometimes though to run up and start pushing the owner around and when he gets annoyed just say "sorry mate I'm friendly, I just wanted to play".
|
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Sept 15, 2023 11:45:32 GMT
is there any penalty on the owners of these dogs (other than destroying the dog ) when it attacks anyone ? if not there should be , that might encourage them to be more responsible . Assuming that they there would be anyone to enforce it, collect fines or that they even have the money to pay the fine, in the eyes of the law at least. I agree though, it's too easy to get one of these dogs, nearly always because the owner thinks it makes them look hard, and then very little happens to them when it attacks someone or another dog. Never understood why there isn't some form of a register required for dog owners. You have to get the dog chipped, neutered unless you're a registered breeder, etc. I guess it comes down to enforcement again - just no funds available to pay an official to do that, so it's easier just to ignore it until it becomes a problem, like now. |
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on Sept 15, 2023 11:50:46 GMT
Presumably if this is not a 'recognised' or registered breed then it must be illegal to own, or breed one anyway?
|
|
|
|
Post by stokeuk474 on Sept 15, 2023 11:59:49 GMT
I know someone who was bitten by one of these XL dogs outside a shop about 2 years ago, punctured his lip and was lucky it wasn't a lot worse only he fought it off . Fella ran off with the dog. Imagine if it was a kid . About time something was done. Obviously someone was trying to start a political debate by saying he doesn't know what he's talking about . I thought it was quite obvious what 474 was saying. I'll quote directly from Sunak "Today I have tasked ministers to bring together police and experts, to firstly define the breed of dog behind these attacks, with the view to then outlawing it. "It is not currently a breed defined in law, so this vital first step must happen fast" You can't enact legislation to ban something you can't define. The purpose to define this specific type of Dog is to avoid unintended consequences of banning perfectly safe dogs Thank you. I am not in any way politically motivated to try and score points one way or another. I couldn't care less. I was simply pointing out that if a specific type of dog breed needs to be banned, then this has to be clearly defined and not just "XL Bully" dogs. There's loads of different types of pitbull terriers. Some people just can't help but start a political debate on here  |
|
|
|
Post by mtrstudent on Sept 15, 2023 12:00:38 GMT
Presumably if this is not a 'recognised' or registered breed then it must be illegal to own, or breed one anyway? I don't know crap about this but I assumed it's fine to have a dog unless it's specifically banned. If it was "only recognised dogs" then wouldn't it be weird if two random dogs banged and made some new unrecognised mutt? 🤔 |
|
|
|
Post by wannabee on Sept 15, 2023 12:00:58 GMT
Presumably if this is not a 'recognised' or registered breed then it must be illegal to own, or breed one anyway? You can't ban something which is undefined - see my post above Once legally defined it will be added to the Dangerous Dog Act |
|
|
|
Post by LL Cool Dave on Sept 15, 2023 12:01:03 GMT
Good. Horrible things.
|
|
|
|
Post by stiggerstackle on Sept 15, 2023 12:10:24 GMT
I blame the owners myself and that's part of the problem, the fact nearly anyone can get a dog with little to no handling experience. I've had dogs of mine attacked by bigger dogs which have escaped and seen my dog thrown about like a rag doll which isn't a nice experience. My current dog came from the dogs Trust and he has amazing recall and temperament although I suppose its expected being a Yorkie. But I walk him off the lead everywhere and he stops on command everytime. I do sometimes consider carrying a fishing knife with me when walking the dog due to past experiences and living in an area where alot of this bigger breeds would be walked. Obviously I don't at the moment but the more you read stories like this and having had previous encounters, it does make me think I should be prepared. What annoys me most or some of the idiots who own dogs and let them off the lead to run wild and annoy and torture every dog. And then they show up 5 mins later and say "he's just playing". Just because your dog likes to play doesn't mean every other dog does and that's part of the problem. Sick of seeing dogs on leads who may be on a lead for a good reason being teased by other dogs off a lead with no owner in site. Luckily my dog won't go after other dogs or more than a few metres from me so I don't have that to worry about. I am tempted sometimes though to run up and start pushing the owner around and when he gets annoyed just say "sorry mate I'm friendly, I just wanted to play". Completely agree, its the irresponsible owners that are the problem. My 2 dogs were attacked by a loose aggressive dog a couple of years ago, thrown around like rag dolls and both ended up with injuries and required stitches etc. A kid would have been killed. The owner couldn't give a fuck, wouldn't accept responsibility and actually tried to blame my wife (who was walking them both on a lead at the time) and was quite confrontational with her. Now, one of my dogs is very temprimental around other dogs and has to be muzzled and on a short lead, and yet we still get dickheads letting their dogs off the lead and allow them to come over 'just to say hello'. You try and explain the issues with our dog and they just respond with 'well my dog is fine and never had an issue!' and get their arse out. Dog owners are the issue, not dogs. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2023 12:18:27 GMT
The more powerful the dog the more experience and skill the owner needs. And the more important it is for the dog to be carefully raised/trained. Including 8 weeks with their mother as pups receive vital socialisation in the final few weeks of that 8 week period. Many long term behavioural issues can be attributed to the practise of taking puppies from their mothers too soon.
Unfortunately, I suspect the inverse to all I’ve said might be happening with these potentially dangerous breeds.
Slight sidetrack but I find the large bull breeds particularly intimidating. I just don’t understand the appeal. A German shepherd is a potential killer but I don’t feel the same way about them. I think they’re beautiful dogs even if they can be intimidating, but bull breeds just creep me the fuck out. Each to their own but I don’t get it at all.
|
|
|
|
Post by dexter97 on Sept 15, 2023 12:18:35 GMT
I blame the owners myself and that's part of the problem, the fact nearly anyone can get a dog with little to no handling experience. I've had dogs of mine attacked by bigger dogs which have escaped and seen my dog thrown about like a rag doll which isn't a nice experience. My current dog came from the dogs Trust and he has amazing recall and temperament although I suppose its expected being a Yorkie. But I walk him off the lead everywhere and he stops on command everytime. I do sometimes consider carrying a fishing knife with me when walking the dog due to past experiences and living in an area where alot of this bigger breeds would be walked. Obviously I don't at the moment but the more you read stories like this and having had previous encounters, it does make me think I should be prepared. What annoys me most or some of the idiots who own dogs and let them off the lead to run wild and annoy and torture every dog. And then they show up 5 mins later and say "he's just playing". Just because your dog likes to play doesn't mean every other dog does and that's part of the problem. Sick of seeing dogs on leads who may be on a lead for a good reason being teased by other dogs off a lead with no owner in site. Luckily my dog won't go after other dogs or more than a few metres from me so I don't have that to worry about. I am tempted sometimes though to run up and start pushing the owner around and when he gets annoyed just say "sorry mate I'm friendly, I just wanted to play". Attacks on people are naturally the main concern that the law needs to address, but the number of (often fatal) attacks on other dogs is very high and also needs to be considered. We used to have a small dog that got attacked on three occasions, each time by a Staffie. Fortunately, she was on a lead every time and I was close enough to intervene before any serious damage was done. Vet treatment was required following each attack, and the first time it happened I needed a jab on account of receiving a nasty bite while removing the beast. None of the owners were thugs (two were middle-aged, middle-class women), but they were all clueless about the potential of their charges to be aggressive. "I don't understand, they've never done anything like that before", or words to that effect, were used by all three of them. I'm sure they were all lovely dogs at home, but all animals have the potential to turn nasty, regardless of how conscientious their owners might be. Jack Russells can be feisty little buggers, but the difference is that they're never going to seriously hurt anyone. Muzzles for bigger, stronger dogs has to be an easy first step. |
|
|
|
Post by eccythump on Sept 15, 2023 12:21:45 GMT
Easy solution is to bring back dog licenses, that way responsible owners can keep dogs, irresponsible ones can't...And thats for EVERY breed
|
|
|
|
Post by gawa on Sept 15, 2023 12:24:41 GMT
Easy solution is to bring back dog licenses, that way responsible owners can keep dogs, irresponsible ones can't...And thats for EVERY breed We still have licenses in NI but all thar does is means I pay a nominal fee once a year and that my address is registered against the dog. And the fee itself is no more than 30 quid. I'm not sure if licenses in England were different but it's not really a deterrent here. |
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Sept 15, 2023 12:31:01 GMT
I’ve noticed these huge dogs are mostly owned by Chavy lads and slightly built women, it stems from a total lack of thought for their local community, it’s a status dog and the owners don’t give a shit if it terrifies people around them, putting pictures of their “baby” on social media is more important than the safety of playing kids and other members of the public, I’ve no idea if the answer is to ban them but I find their owners to be selfish and obnoxious.
|
|
|
|
Post by dexter97 on Sept 15, 2023 12:33:23 GMT
Easy solution is to bring back dog licenses, that way responsible owners can keep dogs, irresponsible ones can't...And thats for EVERY breed I'd have no problem in principle being licenced, but a lot just wouldn't get it done, and then how would you administer and enforce it? I have heard it suggested that vets could help, but people would find a way around it. Dog wardens could be a solution, but it'll be a hefty licence fee to cover the cost of policing 11 million dogs. |
|
|
|
Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 15, 2023 12:33:44 GMT
I know someone who was bitten by one of these XL dogs outside a shop about 2 years ago, punctured his lip and was lucky it wasn't a lot worse only he fought it off . Fella ran off with the dog. Imagine if it was a kid . About time something was done. Obviously someone was trying to start a political debate by saying he doesn't know what he's talking about . I thought it was quite obvious what 474 was saying. I'll quote directly from Sunak "Today I have tasked ministers to bring together police and experts, to firstly define the breed of dog behind these attacks, with the view to then outlawing it. "It is not currently a breed defined in law, so this vital first step must happen fast" You can't enact legislation to ban something you can't define. The purpose to define this specific type of Dog is to avoid unintended consequences of banning perfectly safe dogs He's doing exactly the right thing , no problems with that rather than a knee jerk response to another attack. Good to see but not a political point scoring exercise and claiming he doesn't know what he's talking about certainly is. Anyway, good to see something done and hopefully against owners also |
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Sept 15, 2023 12:39:17 GMT
If more legislation is needed, it’s for ownership not breed.
People found abusing animals should be banned for life.
A family near my parent’s house used to raise a breed. Get the first batch of pups, then put the mother down and start again. This seemingly went on for years before it was figured out. They were banned for a couple of years and are now back to owning the same breed. It’s a disgrace.
|
|
|
|
Post by serpico on Sept 15, 2023 12:39:21 GMT
If your dog kills someone then you should be facing a very lengthy jail sentence, non fatal attacks should be punished with crippling fines
|
|
