Alex Neil

[Caerwrangonpotter]

Lose the Sunderland & Boro game and I think it will be goodnight Vienna


Expect nothing against Leicester & Leeds

[vidigal7]

Oct 5, 2023 10:26:02 GMT thornestein said:

Oct 5, 2023 7:15:38 GMT vidigal7 said:

So the theory is Neil can only get promoted with good players, that's not a big shock really is it to be honest, I'd say that's usually the case for most managers.

It's a good job our signings look good then. If people are prepared to look you can clearly see we havn't been able to play what people would call our best 11.

As for signings, I don't know what more people expect, our main striker purchased in the summer has been injured. Overall I believe we've done some good business this summer, people need to get real if building a squadin one summer gets you promotion everybody would be doing it. It isn't like we've made bad signings, quite the opposite, with resale value to as theyre the right age. So we can add the parts needed to this which is a good first base

mmaee was never meant to be our main striker so that’s bs , he was holding out for Stewart and when that went tits up he tried for the wba lad , some of the signing look poor but you will always get that , but the two key signings we needed Neil failed to get so takes the blame

Whichever way you want to look at it Mmaee was one of our key signings because we paid 4 million euros for him, we paid a considerable fee because he can clearly finish, asisst and he's mobile

[Gary Hackett]

Oct 5, 2023 11:33:51 GMT vidigal7 said:

Oct 5, 2023 10:26:02 GMT thornestein said:

mmaee was never meant to be our main striker so that’s bs , he was holding out for Stewart and when that went tits up he tried for the wba lad , some of the signing look poor but you will always get that , but the two key signings we needed Neil failed to get so takes the blame

Whichever way you want to look at it Mmaee was one of our key signings because we paid 4 million euros for him, we paid a considerable fee because he can clearly finish, asisst and he's mobile

He cost less than half that didn't he

[vidigal7]

Oct 5, 2023 11:36:49 GMT Gary Hackett said:

Oct 5, 2023 11:33:51 GMT vidigal7 said:

Whichever way you want to look at it Mmaee was one of our key signings because we paid 4 million euros for him, we paid a considerable fee because he can clearly finish, asisst and he's mobile

He cost less than half that didn't he

3.4m gbp the Sentinel says, I've just asked my Google voice assistant

[shakermaker]

Oct 5, 2023 11:15:51 GMT Biblical said:

Oct 4, 2023 15:24:58 GMT Gods said:

I think this season is already a write-off in terms of doing any damage at the right end of the table. We will likely be sitting on 10 points a quarter of the way through it after Leicester away next weekend so effectively the season is a gonna already.

But honestly I don't think we should change AN or indeed Tricky or US Jared though, they are only ones who know how this thing is supposed to work.Its certainly lost on everyone else.

Got to hope we can somehow stay up.

Hang tough, re-group in July.

This is where I’m at as well. Hopefully there is more to come from the current group.

- Burger has shown glimpses of what he can do but the niggly injuries haven’t helped. Hopefully he can prove why we’ve spent a sizeable chunk on him.
- Bae has looked lively
- No idea what to make of Mmaee yet but if he can regain fitness and play like the player we think we’ve signed then he could make a huge difference.
- Vidigal’s return to fitness will be most welcome
- Haksabanovic looks decent to me
- Not seen enough of Junior yet but I am impressed by what I’ve seen.

So in an attacking sense the problems can be solved by players already at the club if injuries clear up etc.

It’s the defence that concerns me the most, unless we get a free agent in I’m worried about going with those CB’s until January.

Neil can talk about performances all he likes but he’s got to start getting results. It’s still not a given that he’s a complete dud at the moment though.

Whilst I think we may struggle to get top half with the current set up, the right signings in January with CB as a priority and a central striker if Mmaee doesn’t live up to expectations then things could look very different for the 2nd half of the season.

I'd have been happy with McNally and Wilmot as our first choice CBs. There's shoots of a good, steady partnership there - Southampton was only the third match they've started together in a back four. The injuries may have scuppered that for a while, but as AN said after the game, bringing in a free has limited value as they can take up to a month to get up to speed. We can probably get by with Burger as LCB until one of Rose or Wilmot comes back.

For me, the biggest neglect has been in attack. We still could not bring in someone who can put the ball in the back of the net (even Mmaee hasn't set the world alight yet when fit), and not taking our chances leaves us exposed to giving up a goal at the other end.

[FullerMagic]

Hungarian reports suggested it was an initial £1.75m - with it only getting anywhere near £3.5m if we got promotion

Quite a major signing though - but whether he was ever intended to be the main No. 9, who knows? Did we think we'd get Stewart - or, when that became a no-go, Thomas-Asante?



4m euro for Ryan?
We understand that this would be the case with all bonus conditions, but for this the Potters would have to be promoted to the Premier League. The base amount is 2 million euros, part of the bonus would be fulfilled by staying in, another part by possible promotion, in case of a promotion, the total value of the transfer would slightly exceed the amount of four million.

[emretezzy]

Oct 5, 2023 11:44:03 GMT FullerMagic said:

Hungarian reports suggested it was an initial £1.75m - with it only getting anywhere near £3.5m if we got promotion

Quite a major signing though - but whether he was ever intended to be the main No. 9, who knows? Did we think we'd get Stewart - or, when that became a no-go, Thomas-Asante?



4m euro for Ryan?
We understand that this would be the case with all bonus conditions, but for this the Potters would have to be promoted to the Premier League. The base amount is 2 million euros, part of the bonus would be fulfilled by staying in, another part by possible promotion, in case of a promotion, the total value of the transfer would slightly exceed the amount of four million.

Expensive signing for this league.

Like him but he seems to be a player between the lines and doesn't appear the quickest.

[vidigal7]

Oct 5, 2023 11:44:03 GMT FullerMagic said:

Hungarian reports suggested it was an initial £1.75m - with it only getting anywhere near £3.5m if we got promotion



4m euro for Ryan?
We understand that this would be the case with all bonus conditions, but for this the Potters would have to be promoted to the Premier League. The base amount is 2 million euros, part of the bonus would be fulfilled by staying in, another part by possible promotion, in case of a promotion, the total value of the transfer would slightly exceed the amount of four million.

It's still a valid point though,

We intended to go into this season. With Vidigal, Mmaee, Haksabanovic/leris. Vidigal has only managed a few games and Mmaee has been absent. It's far from ideal.

Three of them 4 for me are looking very good, I'm pleasantly suprised in Leris who I thought early on would just be a squad filler, which just shows players need time to acclimatise to new surroundings

[FullerMagic]

Oct 5, 2023 11:48:48 GMT vidigal7 said:

Oct 5, 2023 11:44:03 GMT FullerMagic said:

Hungarian reports suggested it was an initial £1.75m - with it only getting anywhere near £3.5m if we got promotion



4m euro for Ryan?
We understand that this would be the case with all bonus conditions, but for this the Potters would have to be promoted to the Premier League. The base amount is 2 million euros, part of the bonus would be fulfilled by staying in, another part by possible promotion, in case of a promotion, the total value of the transfer would slightly exceed the amount of four million.

It's still a valid point though,

We intended to go into this season. With Vidigal, Mmaee, Haksabanovic/leris and Vidigal has only managed a few games and Mmaee has been absent. It's far from ideal.

Three of them 4 for me are looking very good, I'm pleasantly suprised in Leris who I thought early on would just be a squad filler, which just shows players need to acclimatise to new surroundings

Yeah, injuries offer mitigation, definitely - especially Vidigal and Mmaee (although how he'll adapt is still completely unknown)

But the lack of any decent back-up for Mmaee is puzzling.

We obviously wanted Thomas-Asante on deadline day (and it's possible we still believed we had a real chance with Stewart) - but Mmaee had been injured for 3 weeks by then - and it looks like he'll end up missing 10+ weeks.

We're on the back foot, back in point-a-game territory after 10 games because the only player we've had to fill the striker role has been a wild swing on someone who has missed 2 years of football and is now lower-league standard and doesn't offer any of the target-man qualities he was bemoaning the lack of after every defeat last season.

Leris has done okay, and his work-rate looks exactly as described, but he's not going to be a consistent source of goals, worldies aside, you'd think.


With us being so completely blunt down the middle and so desperately lacking at centre-back and left-back, a chunk of the problem is self-inflicted. The fact we were prepared to spend £750,000 on Michael Rose in January is quite scary.

[vidigal7]

Oct 5, 2023 11:57:18 GMT FullerMagic said:

Oct 5, 2023 11:48:48 GMT vidigal7 said:

It's still a valid point though,

We intended to go into this season. With Vidigal, Mmaee, Haksabanovic/leris and Vidigal has only managed a few games and Mmaee has been absent. It's far from ideal.

Three of them 4 for me are looking very good, I'm pleasantly suprised in Leris who I thought early on would just be a squad filler, which just shows players need to acclimatise to new surroundings

Yeah, injuries offer mitigation, definitely - especially Vidigal and Mmaee (although how he'll adapt is still completely unknown)

But the lack of any decent back-up for Mmaee is puzzling.

We obviously wanted Thomas-Asante on deadline day - but Mmaee had been injured for 3 weeks by then - and it looks like he'll end up missing 10+ weeks.

We're on the back foot, back in point-a-game territory after 10 games because the only player we've had to fill the striker role has been a wild swing on someone who has missed 2 years of football and is now lower-league standard and doesn't offer any of the target-man qualities he was bemoaning the lack of after every defeat last season.

Leris has done okay, and his work-rate looks exactly as described, but he's not going to be consistent source of goals, worldies aside, you'd think.


With us being so completely blunt down the middle and so desperately lacking at centre-back and left-back, a chunk of the problem is self-inflicted. The fact we were prepared to pay £750,000 on Michael Rose in January is quite scary.

To be honest I'd love to know the reasoning behind signing Wesley, he was definatley a player we brought in as a stop gap and it does look completely senseless given his immobility, Neil's Stoke career could hang on this decision given the injury to Mmaee, which is incredibly sad.

I still think it's harsh though considering changing the manager( well a small group of supporters) when two of his key attacking options pick up an injury

[Biblical]

Oct 5, 2023 11:39:14 GMT shakermaker said:

Oct 5, 2023 11:15:51 GMT Biblical said:

This is where I’m at as well. Hopefully there is more to come from the current group.

- Burger has shown glimpses of what he can do but the niggly injuries haven’t helped. Hopefully he can prove why we’ve spent a sizeable chunk on him.
- Bae has looked lively
- No idea what to make of Mmaee yet but if he can regain fitness and play like the player we think we’ve signed then he could make a huge difference.
- Vidigal’s return to fitness will be most welcome
- Haksabanovic looks decent to me
- Not seen enough of Junior yet but I am impressed by what I’ve seen.

So in an attacking sense the problems can be solved by players already at the club if injuries clear up etc.

It’s the defence that concerns me the most, unless we get a free agent in I’m worried about going with those CB’s until January.

Neil can talk about performances all he likes but he’s got to start getting results. It’s still not a given that he’s a complete dud at the moment though.

Whilst I think we may struggle to get top half with the current set up, the right signings in January with CB as a priority and a central striker if Mmaee doesn’t live up to expectations then things could look very different for the 2nd half of the season.

I'd have been happy with McNally and Wilmot as our first choice CBs. There's shoots of a good, steady partnership there - Southampton was only the third match they've started together in a back four. The injuries may have scuppered that for a while, but as AN said after the game, bringing in a free has limited value as they can take up to a month to get up to speed. We can probably get by with Burger as LCB until one of Rose or Wilmot comes back.

For me, the biggest neglect has been in attack. We still could not bring in someone who can put the ball in the back of the net (even Mmaee hasn't set the world alight yet when fit), and not taking our chances leaves us exposed to giving up a goal at the other end.

You can say Mmaee hasn’t set the world alight when fit but the reality is that he’s barely played so it’s hard to judge him.

Another central striker through the door would have been nice but for now we’ve got to hope that Mmaee plays to the potential that we think he’s got when we signed him.

[Deleted]

We can't afford to recruit another manager that hasn't been involved in the planning here. Things could get worse.

It is too early to say we're in relegation trouble. Unless we are deep in it and need crisis management from a Warnock/pulis type we should stick with him.

I'm as pissed off as anyone, season ruined already

[thornestein]

Oct 5, 2023 11:33:51 GMT vidigal7 said:

Oct 5, 2023 10:26:02 GMT thornestein said:

mmaee was never meant to be our main striker so that’s bs , he was holding out for Stewart and when that went tits up he tried for the wba lad , some of the signing look poor but you will always get that , but the two key signings we needed Neil failed to get so takes the blame

Whichever way you want to look at it Mmaee was one of our key signings because we paid 4 million euros for him, we paid a considerable fee because he can clearly finish, asisst and he's mobile

and doesn’t mean anything , he wasn’t brought to be the main striker end of

[vidigal7]

Oct 5, 2023 13:18:38 GMT thornestein said:

Oct 5, 2023 11:33:51 GMT vidigal7 said:

Whichever way you want to look at it Mmaee was one of our key signings because we paid 4 million euros for him, we paid a considerable fee because he can clearly finish, asisst and he's mobile

and doesn’t mean anything , he wasn’t brought to be the main striker end of

So who was then? You don't know how good Mmaee is going to be yet, god help the next man he'll have to be extremely desperate

[baconburger]

Oct 5, 2023 11:46:55 GMT emretezzy said:

Oct 5, 2023 11:44:03 GMT FullerMagic said:

Hungarian reports suggested it was an initial £1.75m - with it only getting anywhere near £3.5m if we got promotion

Quite a major signing though - but whether he was ever intended to be the main No. 9, who knows? Did we think we'd get Stewart - or, when that became a no-go, Thomas-Asante?



4m euro for Ryan?
We understand that this would be the case with all bonus conditions, but for this the Potters would have to be promoted to the Premier League. The base amount is 2 million euros, part of the bonus would be fulfilled by staying in, another part by possible promotion, in case of a promotion, the total value of the transfer would slightly exceed the amount of four million.

Expensive signing for this league.

Like him but he seems to be a player between the lines and doesn't appear the quickest.

It really isn’t it’s less than we paid for Brown when we were up against it with FFP and transfer fees were in a slump. Given the sort of fees that have been spent this summer it’s chicken feed and represents a reasonable punt even though I haven’t personally liked the look of him from the little we have seen. Most of our incomings this summer haven’t cost anywhere near their reported fees up front. The rebuild has been done very much on the cheap and therefore the major expectations of some on here are clearly misplaced. It’s far more exciting than signing a bunch of ageing old British plodders even if any progress is ultimately disappointing. I hope we give the new approach enough time to bear fruit the previous approach was certainly given enough time to prove a failure. Hope we can retain some faith even if they lose faith with this particular manager who isn’t really the type you’d associate with such a project anyway.

[Gary Hackett]

1.7m for a Josh Maja tribute when we could have got the real thing on a free.

Nearly as crazy as wanting to spend 750k on Rose.

[Pugsley]

Season already a write off on 4th October... christ almighty.

Shameful, even more so fans accepting it.

[shakermaker]

Oct 5, 2023 11:25:13 GMT Caerwrangonpotter said:

Lose the Sunderland & Boro game and I think it will be goodnight Vienna


Expect nothing against Leicester & Leeds

Agreed about the Leicester and Leeds games - expecting nothing from them, but would like to see some effort and desire at least.

However, lose even one of Sunderland or Boro and that's enough for me - he has to go.

[Deleted]

Oct 5, 2023 14:00:58 GMT Pugsley said:

Season already a write off on 4th October... christ almighty.

Shameful, even more so fans accepting it.

50 points Nige.

[chiswickpotter]

Oct 5, 2023 5:57:42 GMT george2again said:

Oct 4, 2023 18:53:42 GMT @deleted said:

I've changed my mind. Stick with him.

We aren't going up this season anyway, I'd only get rid of we are in relegation trouble.

Let's see if he learns how to get the best out of this bunch over the next couple of months at least.

As others have said, with our owners things can get a lot worse

Every game we seem to have no plan, no system in place and very little passion( scoring last minute apart) . AN bar one run last season has been appalling with turgid football and a lack of a system to stick to. I really think he’ll be gone by the end of the month. The fixtures we have and his seemingly lack of any plan will decide his fete.

That isn’t true. If anything he overthinks the planning. On Tuesday we set up with Haks at the head of a diamond in midfield completely different to Saturday with Leris going in narrow alongside Lowe. He is always tinkering with the shape between games

[Bojan Mackey]

Oct 5, 2023 14:19:37 GMT chiswickpotter said:

Oct 5, 2023 5:57:42 GMT george2again said:

Every game we seem to have no plan, no system in place and very little passion( scoring last minute apart) . AN bar one run last season has been appalling with turgid football and a lack of a system to stick to. I really think he’ll be gone by the end of the month. The fixtures we have and his seemingly lack of any plan will decide his fete.

That isn’t true. If anything he overthinks the planning. On Tuesday we set up with Haks at the head of a diamond in midfield completely different to Saturday with Leris going in narrow alongside Lowe. He is always tinkering with the shape between games

This is why the team isn’t clicking, tinkerman always has to dick about every single week it’s no wonder the players don’t know their arse from their elbow.

Pick a system and stick to it, it worked for Leeds when they played Bielsaball, some teams mullered them but the majority they absolutely turned over.

[thornestein]

Oct 5, 2023 13:33:24 GMT vidigal7 said:

Oct 5, 2023 13:18:38 GMT thornestein said:

and doesn’t mean anything , he wasn’t brought to be the main striker end of

So who was then? You don't know how good Mmaee is going to be yet, god help the next man he'll have to be extremely desperate

i’ve already told you Stewart was the main target and when that went tits up it was the wba , mmaee was a small gamble and not for the fee you keep dredging up , and the little games he’s played it was hit and miss ( though only time will tell i’ll give you that )

[prestwichpotter]

Oct 5, 2023 14:29:45 GMT thornestein said:

Oct 5, 2023 13:33:24 GMT vidigal7 said:

So who was then? You don't know how good Mmaee is going to be yet, god help the next man he'll have to be extremely desperate

i’ve already told you Stewart was the main target and when that went tits up it was the wba , mmaee was a small gamble and not for the fee you keep dredging up , and the little games he’s played it was hit and miss ( though only time will tell i’ll give you that )

Ross Stewart wouldn't have kicked a ball for us in 2023 even if we'd signed him though, that's why I never quite understood the noise behind it.

We're not in a place to wait around..............

[thornestein]

Oct 5, 2023 14:48:21 GMT prestwichpotter said:

Oct 5, 2023 14:29:45 GMT thornestein said:

i’ve already told you Stewart was the main target and when that went tits up it was the wba , mmaee was a small gamble and not for the fee you keep dredging up , and the little games he’s played it was hit and miss ( though only time will tell i’ll give you that )

Ross Stewart wouldn't have kicked a ball for us in 2023 even if we'd signed him though, that's why I never quite understood the noise behind it.

We're not in a place to wait around..............

totally agree

[Pugsley]

Oct 5, 2023 14:08:47 GMT @theonlooker said:

Oct 5, 2023 14:00:58 GMT Pugsley said:

Season already a write off on 4th October... christ almighty.

Shameful, even more so fans accepting it.

50 points Nige.

It's the new(ish) 40

[shakermaker]

Oct 5, 2023 14:19:37 GMT chiswickpotter said:

Oct 5, 2023 5:57:42 GMT george2again said:

Every game we seem to have no plan, no system in place and very little passion( scoring last minute apart) . AN bar one run last season has been appalling with turgid football and a lack of a system to stick to. I really think he’ll be gone by the end of the month. The fixtures we have and his seemingly lack of any plan will decide his fete.

That isn’t true. If anything he overthinks the planning. On Tuesday we set up with Haks at the head of a diamond in midfield completely different to Saturday with Leris going in narrow alongside Lowe. He is always tinkering with the shape between games

When I saw the teamsheet v Saints, I thought great, he's going with the 4-3-3 that played with a flourish post-subs against Bristol City. Never thought he'd go Mad Nath and deploy the diamond. When Neil hits on something that seems to work, he just unnecessarily toys around with it again. Léris isn’t even a forward, so why did Neil play him there?

It's like when you have an A-list Fantasy Team with 2x free transfers, but he makes the transfers anyway just because he can!

[independent]

If we couldn't sign a CB in the whole of the Summer, who believes that we will manage to do so in January. We have to just hope that Vidigal comes back and continues to score goals for us. Regarding our best players being missing with injuries, There is a whole thread advising AN on his best team.The real point is that AN doesn't know his best team. Does anyone believe that the International Break will enable him to get everything sorted?

[vidigal7]

Oct 5, 2023 15:24:30 GMT independent said:

If we couldn't sign a CB in the whole of the Summer, who believes that we will manage to do so in January. We have to just hope that Vidigal comes back and continues to score goals for us. Regarding our best players being missing with injuries, There is a whole thread advising AN on his best team.The real point is that AN doesn't know his best team. Does anyone believe that the International Break will enable him to get everything sorted?

We'll have fresh targets, markets move and forever changing

[boothenender]

This whole read is very depressing.
How have those in charge let it slip down so far.
Supporting Stoke City is like being part of a loveless marriage.

[peterthornesboots]

Oct 5, 2023 15:24:30 GMT independent said:

If we couldn't sign a CB in the whole of the Summer, who believes that we will manage to do so in January. We have to just hope that Vidigal comes back and continues to score goals for us. Regarding our best players being missing with injuries, There is a whole thread advising AN on his best team.The real point is that AN doesn't know his best team. Does anyone believe that the International Break will enable him to get everything sorted?

The football landscape will be very different in January than in the summer. There will be players who are not playing that want to leave, clubs that need to get players off the wage bill, and teams where new arrivals will push others out.

So there will be players available, but whether they will be the right quality (or price) is a different question. 😅

The international break will not solve our issues, but it should help. It is more time on the training pitch and provides our injured players with an extra week or so of recovery.

You have to imagine that AN is close to knowing his best team now? Hopefully?