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Post by datguy on Feb 4, 2024 19:59:20 GMT
You can disagree, it's a message board. But I don't think I've made anything up? The problem is that we've completely axed our best striker (feels incredibly redundant to keep repeating this statement given how little it actually means but I'd still rather him up top than Campbell), and it's become a big concern for all involved, when we sit 4 points above the relegation zone and can't get the ball in the back of the net. I do think Schumacher has created this problem, unfortunately. If Mmaee was taking the piss in training (and I fully believe he was!) then he needs disciplining. But axing him like he has hasn't had much of a desired effect on the team has it? The worst two performances came in his absence. But now it's public knowledge. Even if Schumacher has to swallow his pride and rely on Mmaee in coming games - as I hope he will - then he can't now can he? Everyone and their dog knows he's been taking the piss in training and no doubt he gets booed. I just simply think it should've been handled differently. Telling him to find a new club in the last week of the window, and the stern words following Sunderland and Leicester, don't do much to help. Especially when his replacement got piss-takingly cheered off the pitch on Saturday. I've backed Schumacher and continue to do so. I like the fella and want him to succeed more than any of our previous managers because he's certainly likeable. I also think he could've handled Mmaee and his attitude problems significantly better. I'd rather have Mmaee available for the remaining 15 games than not. All Schumacher needs to say is he's held clear the air talks with Mmaee initiated by Ryan and he's back. But until then the boss can't pick him can he? And we have to put up with Campbell strolling about the pitch not being arsed. So say foe example he's told the manager to go fuck himself, you think that's acceptable. If the manager accepts this sort of behaviour then he totally loses the dressing room including the good eggs. You just can't pretend this hasn't happened. I agree Hackett but do we think rendering him completely unplayable is the only response? And why is it all public knowledge anyway? It just doesn't sit right with me how it's all happened. Bollocking, disciplining, dropping, fining. But now he's never going to play for Stoke again by the looks of things which is a bit worrying considering the other options.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 4, 2024 20:03:00 GMT
So say foe example he's told the manager to go fuck himself, you think that's acceptable. If the manager accepts this sort of behaviour then he totally loses the dressing room including the good eggs. You just can't pretend this hasn't happened. I agree Hackett but do we think rendering him completely unplayable is the only response? And why is it all public knowledge anyway? It just doesn't sit right with me how it's all happened. Bollocking, disciplining, dropping, fining. But now he's never going to play for Stoke again by the looks of things which is a bit worrying considering the other options. I don't want arseholes playing for the club especially ones that bang average and unproven thus far.
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Post by sticky on Feb 4, 2024 20:03:50 GMT
Any HR experts about . Doesnt his conduct qualify as gross misconduct and instant dismissal ? No nothing about HR, and you’d Imagine in any other walk of life it would…Footballs a different animal though, how would we get our transfer fee back? Only way out (if everything that’s said is true) is to let him rot in the reserves hope he terminates his contract by mutual consent and hopefully we learn from it (yeah right!) I’m right behind the manager on this one, too many players have taken the piss out of our club, it has to stop
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Mmaee
Feb 4, 2024 20:06:59 GMT
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Post by baconburger on Feb 4, 2024 20:06:59 GMT
Any HR experts about . Doesnt his conduct qualify as gross misconduct and instant dismissal ? Dunno what has he done that amounts to gross misconduct? If he’s constantly not conforming to his terms and conditions he could perhaps be terminated through the incremental disciplinary process( if you’re willing to write of the whole €2M). Gross misconduct isn’t incremental it’s an individual circumstance that would merit dismissal all on its own. Like nutting somebody naked in the showers.
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Mmaee
Feb 4, 2024 20:19:06 GMT
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Post by Fred Merger on Feb 4, 2024 20:19:06 GMT
The answer until the summer may be to play big Wes and get Million and Ennis buzzing around him. Really? There’s nothing to suggest Wesley’s even in the managers thoughts and from what I’ve seen of him like Campbell he’s playing like his futures away from here and not up for the fight. At the moment we have 2 striking options Ryan - Who doesn’t look ready but at least he tries Ennis - who’s injured a lot Vidigal at a push - However by all accounts he’s on a final warning and is way too lightweight. What is Vidigal on a final warning for?
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Post by HarryTheHat on Feb 4, 2024 20:20:15 GMT
Any HR experts about . Doesnt his conduct qualify as gross misconduct and instant dismissal ? No nothing about HR, and you’d Imagine in any other walk of life it would…Footballs a different animal though, how would we get our transfer fee back? Only way out (if everything that’s said is true) is to let him rot in the reserves hope he terminates his contract by mutual consent and hopefully we learn from it (yeah right!) I’m right behind the manager on this one, too many players have taken the piss out of our club, it has to stop If football was like any other business he'd be put under performance management for failing to work to the required standard and he'd ultimately be dismissed without pay if no improvement forthcoming within an agreed timeframe
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Post by andystokey on Feb 4, 2024 20:20:34 GMT
We've seen what players being dicks have done to this club. Literally cost us £100s of millions in lost revenue. If there is any substance to even half of that, I'm all in with Schuey.
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Post by iglugluk on Feb 4, 2024 20:20:34 GMT
This situation is definitely more nuanced than at first it appeared to be. If the rumours are true about fights going on in training, then depending on between whom and why they happened in the first place, it's clear something drastic may very well have been needed. Could SS have handled him similarly to Ferguson's approach to Ronaldo's shenanigans or did it need to be more severe than that due to the severity of Mmaee's behaviour? We simply don't know the full facts and must assume SS acted out of necessity. One thing is for sure, though, and that is we fucked up badly in the transfer window in a number of areas ..again! This time the mistake is so BIG it is in danger of relegating us from the division. Ricky Martin and to a lesser extent Jared Dublin clearly deserve the blame for this situation not SS. John Coates should definitely be telling Martin to clear his desk and collect his coat on his way out of the building.. not so sure about Dublin but I'd say Martin and his bullshit 'architecture' claims have been clearly exposed as a lack of due diligence and that is unforgivable.. he needs to go and we need better. The idea of a DoF isn't bad but this appointment is. None of this helps in the meantime though and as said in other posts JC should be looking to get in an experienced 'assistant' like Warnock to help SS sort the shit he's inherited out, because you bet your bottom dollar he didn't know what he was walking into when he took the job on. I like SS so far but this situation is a complex mess and it needs a calm and experienced head to resolve it.
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Post by DC1863 on Feb 4, 2024 20:21:19 GMT
It's a huge chance for Niall Ennis if nothing else, Mmaee is the new pantomime villain and Campbell is wearing Gayle's shooting boots.
The manager knows and trusts him and he has a chance to nail down the CF spot if he can discover a bit of his form from last season.
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Post by gingerninja on Feb 4, 2024 20:23:00 GMT
Ennis looked like a competition winner on Saturday.
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Post by march4 on Feb 4, 2024 20:34:45 GMT
Who are Mmaee’s mates at the club?
If he is causing a problem (if!), are there any others doing the same?
More Qs than answers here.
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Post by RF10 on Feb 4, 2024 20:35:19 GMT
I can't be doing with this notion that just because the remaining front line are a pile of shit that we should just excuse any behaviour and the manager can't deal with players.
One of the reasons we are in this mess is due to similar occurrences when we got relegated with the likes of Jese and Sadio.
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Post by RF10 on Feb 4, 2024 20:36:17 GMT
Ennis looked like a competition winner on Saturday. Didn't they all?
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Post by brinsleymaclagan on Feb 4, 2024 20:37:05 GMT
Excellent posts from Olgrligm first of all. For me, it was clear that Mmaee had a chip on his shoulder when he was subbed by Neil in the first game of the season as he looked to the sky in disbelief when he was hooked and ambled off very slowly. A pity asyou could tell he was very skilful even if Vidi got all the plaudits on the day. I am hoping it’s a redeemable situation as I think we are going to need him. You’d prefer a player who is happy to be subbed?
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Post by malisastokie on Feb 4, 2024 20:39:30 GMT
I find it amazing that that I have heard 3 comments:
1. A journalist who makes a comment that he was told by a person at half a piece of information that he could not repeat.
2.The head coach who actually know what has happened, says not selected twice when the same journalist asks him a question regarding Ryan ( no different to the United manager saying internal ).
3. The head coach without identifying particular players were not applying themselves at training.
On the basis of that our head coach has totally miss managed a situation.
I for one will not judge him on that limited information.
We got hammered by a team that is a present 40 points above us in the league.
We were always going to lose that game albeit we should have not gifted them 4 of their 5 goals.
The head coach is not running away from our position on the table, he is as concerned about it as much as us supporters.
Until the yesterday there have been promising moments in every game since he took over, promising moments don’t win football games .
Our league position has been dire since relegation, so Shumacher decides a player is not selected for what ever reason he should have our support because if you keep doing the same thing and expect different results then that is the definition of insanity.
I don’t know where our next goal is going to come from but I do know that the player in question has not been prolific to date.
I think we want the same outcome for our team, to not be relegated, to improve week on week and play entertaining football.
Now is the time to rally behind Schumacher and judge him at season end.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Feb 4, 2024 20:40:27 GMT
SS has not created any problem, stop making shite up and listen to what is really happening, You can disagree, it's a message board. But I don't think I've made anything up? The problem is that we've completely axed our best striker (feels incredibly redundant to keep repeating this statement given how little it actually means but I'd still rather him up top than Campbell), and it's become a big concern for all involved, when we sit 4 points above the relegation zone and can't get the ball in the back of the net. I do think Schumacher has created this problem, unfortunately. If Mmaee was taking the piss in training (and I fully believe he was!) then he needs disciplining. But axing him like he has hasn't had much of a desired effect on the team has it? The worst two performances came in his absence. But now it's public knowledge. Even if Schumacher has to swallow his pride and rely on Mmaee in coming games - as I hope he will - then he can't now can he? Everyone and their dog knows he's been taking the piss in training and no doubt he gets booed. I just simply think it should've been handled differently. Telling him to find a new club in the last week of the window, and the stern words following Sunderland and Leicester, don't do much to help. Especially when his replacement got piss-takingly cheered off the pitch on Saturday. I've backed Schumacher and continue to do so. I like the fella and want him to succeed more than any of our previous managers because he's certainly likeable. I also think he could've handled Mmaee and his attitude problems significantly better. I'd rather have Mmaee available for the remaining 15 games than not. All Schumacher needs to say is he's held clear the air talks with Mmaee initiated by Ryan and he's back. But until then the boss can't pick him can he? And we have to put up with Campbell strolling about the pitch not being arsed. Not for me. Team harmony trumps individual strops. If he failed to address the discipline issues the Club identified he was rightly dropped and if he took umbrage at that and was toxic he shouldn’t play again. It lads with attitudes like this that have gotten us into this mess. See Jesé, Berahino et al
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Mmaee
Feb 4, 2024 20:41:49 GMT
Post by nottsover60 on Feb 4, 2024 20:41:49 GMT
You've got to ask questions when a 5-minute google reveal concerns about his attitude at both Standard Liege and Ferencvaros. When I was reading up on him, I was surprised that a player who at one time was rated in Belgium was farmed out to the no man's land of Cyprus. Red flags all over the place. God knows how this got though basic screening. And I'm surprised at Alex Neil giving it the thumbs up. I'd assumed Neil to be pretty old school and insistent on signings passing basic checks for problems Could it just have been Neil's Berahino moment? - I am the manager who can get the best out of him? A bit of old school discipline will cure his attitude problems.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Feb 4, 2024 20:42:36 GMT
Really? There’s nothing to suggest Wesley’s even in the managers thoughts and from what I’ve seen of him like Campbell he’s playing like his futures away from here and not up for the fight. At the moment we have 2 striking options Ryan - Who doesn’t look ready but at least he tries Ennis - who’s injured a lot Vidigal at a push - However by all accounts he’s on a final warning and is way too lightweight. What is Vidigal on a final warning for? Amateur dramatics and high board diving impersonations on a football pitch…
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Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 4, 2024 21:01:16 GMT
Really? There’s nothing to suggest Wesley’s even in the managers thoughts and from what I’ve seen of him like Campbell he’s playing like his futures away from here and not up for the fight. At the moment we have 2 striking options Ryan - Who doesn’t look ready but at least he tries Ennis - who’s injured a lot Vidigal at a push - However by all accounts he’s on a final warning and is way too lightweight. What is Vidigal on a final warning for? He’s Mmaee’s best mate. By all accounts similar sort of stuff to Mmaee. Someone else posted it can’t think who.
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 4, 2024 21:14:24 GMT
Presumably all this renders Martin and Jared’s positions.totally untenable. Given the clear lack of appropriate diligence and the rhetoric of how much diligence we do , they are lucky he’s the only one getting suspended. Do we know that they didn't flag up his discipline problems? It could be that they said this player matches best the qualities you want in a striker but he comes with a lot of baggage. As I've said elsewhere I'm pretty sure Neil is the sort of bloke who thinks he can knock any player into shape with a bit of discipline. Everyone thinks they are the one who can succeed where others have failed and seeing as Wesley seems to have been second on our list I can understand why Neil would think it worth the risk.
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Post by retrostoke on Feb 4, 2024 21:14:42 GMT
FFS. Rogue footballers are hardly a unique phenomenon are they. Good managers need all sorts of skills, including man management of difficult individuals.
If even half of this is true then it’s a test for the boss. Something new to him possibly. To me he seems a strong character so why don’t we just see how it unfolds, see what happens in training this week and see what team is unleashed next Saturday.
If SS is the man to take us forward he will resolve this before Saturday and we will see something decent from the team against Blackburn. There is so much hysteria about this club at the moment it’s just feeding the problem.
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Mmaee
Feb 4, 2024 21:17:54 GMT
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Post by Fred Merger on Feb 4, 2024 21:17:54 GMT
What is Vidigal on a final warning for? He’s Mmaee’s best mate. By all accounts similar sort of stuff to Mmaee. Someone else posted it can’t think who. I did hear one tale about AN fining Vidigal for turning up for training late.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Feb 4, 2024 21:18:02 GMT
What is Vidigal on a final warning for? Amateur dramatics and high board diving impersonations on a football pitch… Embarrassing yesterday when he went down🙄
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Mmaee
Feb 4, 2024 21:40:29 GMT
via mobile
Post by thisisouryear on Feb 4, 2024 21:40:29 GMT
Presumably all this renders Martin and Jared’s positions.totally untenable. Given the clear lack of appropriate diligence and the rhetoric of how much diligence we do , they are lucky he’s the only one getting suspended. Do we know that they didn't flag up his discipline problems? It could be that they said this player matches best the qualities you want in a striker but he comes with a lot of baggage. As I've said elsewhere I'm pretty sure Neil is the sort of bloke who thinks he can knock any player into shape with a bit of discipline. Everyone thinks they are the one who can succeed where others have failed and seeing as Wesley seems to have been second on our list I can understand why Neil would think it worth the risk. It could be that Jon Coates wants them to target players who have flaws as they are often cheap and can turn a good profit when they work out. High risk high reward signings but cheap. Our last couple of seasons in the Prem was littered with this type of signing and has been since. Maybe we are just trying to do things on the cheap too often and getting too many of this type of player through the door. Is Jon trying to look like some sort of intelligent businessman? Because if he is it ain't working. It just seems like we have been in the same cycle with players and poor attitudes and it's all been since Jon took over.
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Mmaee
Feb 4, 2024 21:45:25 GMT
Post by FullerMagic on Feb 4, 2024 21:45:25 GMT
Talking of strikers, judging by his Instagram, Big Wes seems to have been in Brazil this week getting married.
Seems a bit unusual in-season - but maybe reflects how out of the picture he is too? Wonder when that was arranged?
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Mmaee
Feb 4, 2024 21:50:22 GMT
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Post by bridgnorthstokie on Feb 4, 2024 21:50:22 GMT
We've seen what players being dicks have done to this club. Literally cost us £100s of millions in lost revenue. If there is any substance to even half of that, I'm all in with Schuey. To right, berahino, jese, choupo, imbula all bad attitudes which brought this club down. If mmae is in the same mould as these get him out quickly
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Mmaee
Feb 4, 2024 21:53:12 GMT
Post by benjaminbiscuit on Feb 4, 2024 21:53:12 GMT
Presumably all this renders Martin and Jared’s positions.totally untenable. Given the clear lack of appropriate diligence and the rhetoric of how much diligence we do , they are lucky he’s the only one getting suspended. Do we know that they didn't flag up his discipline problems? It could be that they said this player matches best the qualities you want in a striker but he comes with a lot of baggage. As I've said elsewhere I'm pretty sure Neil is the sort of bloke who thinks he can knock any player into shape with a bit of discipline. Everyone thinks they are the one who can succeed where others have failed and seeing as Wesley seems to have been second on our list I can understand why Neil would think it worth the risk. Martin is ultimately responsible for all football related matters and signed off on his contract no escaping the accountability I’m afraid
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Feb 4, 2024 22:15:27 GMT
Talking of strikers, judging by his Instagram, Big Wes seems to have been in Brazil this week getting married. Seems a bit unusual in-season - but maybe reflects how out of the picture he is too? Wonder when that was arranged? He arrived yesterday mate just after most of the players came in
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Mmaee
Feb 4, 2024 22:17:11 GMT
Post by Laughing Gravy on Feb 4, 2024 22:17:11 GMT
My understanding is he has been disciplined and punished numerous times but refuses to change his ways. What Schumacher said and Burger hinted at the other week sort of corroborates this. What are they supposed to do if he refuses to comply with club rules? PS I totally agree with your last sentence. This is something that has been brewing since the day he walked through the door and should have been sorted one way or the other months ago. Sack him? But we get nothing for him then. Or sell him? That way we do get some sort of return on ot £2m summer outlay. If we sack him then at least we won’t be messing around with these loan deals where we’re contrubuting to his wages like with NDaiye. If we get a cash offer for him I’ll be amazed as no one would be stupid enough to buy him because of his reputation. If we do then let’s get him out. You just know he’ll be off to Turkey with us paying for a fair percentage of his wage. What a mess. It is a mess mate you're right. But not one of Schumacher's making. Didn't we get an offer from a foreign club and I'm sure Plymouth and Sheff Weds were interested in taking him but Mmaee turned them down as he "wanted to fight for his place". So it looks like we could have got money for him but he scuppered it. If that's the case and if it's at all possible we should, as you say, just sack him and take the hit. Having spent bugger all in January we can probably afford it. As you say I'm sick of being taken for twats.
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Mmaee
Feb 5, 2024 0:17:36 GMT
via mobile
Post by march4 on Feb 5, 2024 0:17:36 GMT
Talking of strikers, judging by his Instagram, Big Wes seems to have been in Brazil this week getting married. Seems a bit unusual in-season - but maybe reflects how out of the picture he is too? Wonder when that was arranged? Is their transfer window still open?
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