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Post by george2again on Jan 21, 2024 8:23:05 GMT
He has a lot of attributes but in this league you need to run and run until you drop, chase most causes and defend from the front - he simply doesn't have the minerals to do this. We need better and we need it fast He doesn’t really have any attributes though does he? The odd flick that comes off end of.
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Post by george2again on Jan 21, 2024 8:26:27 GMT
If we’re saying none of Mmae, Wesley, Gayle, Campbell or Vidigal are natural leaders no.9’s and Lowe isn’t ready then the head coach should either switch to two upfront OR get a quality CF in and offload as many of our current crop? I think that’s a fair anlagy to be honest.
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Mmaee
Jan 21, 2024 8:35:41 GMT
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Post by barrythe on Jan 21, 2024 8:35:41 GMT
It's not good enough for him to score 1:6.33 he's the main striker getting all the chances atm. Jordan Thompson now had a similar goals per game ratio!
I don't think Mmaee, vidigal, Wes or Gayle are the answer. And collectively they're not on the same level as half the players around them now. Burger, Jun ho, Cundle, which is why it just fizzles out.
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Mmaee
Jan 21, 2024 9:02:39 GMT
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Post by thornestein on Jan 21, 2024 9:02:39 GMT
we need much better , sadly they cost a lot of money
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Post by nonameface on Jan 21, 2024 9:46:24 GMT
He's probably the best technical forward we've had in the championship and for the majority of the season we haven't played to his strengths at all, which we need to because he's poor in quite a few areas.
Heading - Bottom 20% Take ons - Bottom 5%
So expecting him to create a goal out of nothing or to put the ball in the air isn't the best way to get anything out of him.
Hes only an average finisher (57th percentile xg), decent passer (top 10% long range passing, top 1/3 progressive passing and average assister XA is 55th percentile), and as we know he's got decent close control (drawn fouls top 15%).
The stats also show he only ever tackles when he knows he's going to get the ball back. top 5% for winning tackles, bottom 5% for the amount of times he does it!
If we don't sign a striker in this window then it would be good to have Mmaee continue to play until the end of the season and I believe we will get better at creating decent chances.
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Mmaee
Jan 21, 2024 9:48:33 GMT
Post by idle on Jan 21, 2024 9:48:33 GMT
As for goals all season, have you already forgotten about that wank manager we used to have for most of the season playing dour pass it around the back scared shitless football? I've been trying to say he's not the classic striker, but you don't seem to grasp it. Tell me, how many chances do you think he created today for the others? I'm betting you only saw one, when he was involved in quite a few of our chances.I called bollocks cause you only see the most obvious "aaard work", and none of the smart movement. Idiot. We could go back and forth for eternity, you clearly rate him for some reason, I don’t. If you think he’s capable of contributing and taking the club forward fair play, I don’t see it and think we need better. Yup, agree to disagree. I do think he's good enough for this team, but not as the main goalscorer, so I also agree we need that. But it doesn't have to be a no.9, a goalscoring winger/inside forward would work just as well IMO.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 21, 2024 10:50:00 GMT
He's probably the best technical forward we've had in the championship and for the majority of the season we haven't played to his strengths at all, which we need to because he's poor in quite a few areas. Heading - Bottom 20% Take ons - Bottom 5% So expecting him to create a goal out of nothing or to put the ball in the air isn't the best way to get anything out of him. Hes only an average finisher (57th percentile xg), decent passer (top 10% long range passing, top 1/3 progressive passing and average assister XA is 55th percentile), and as we know he's got decent close control (drawn fouls top 15%). The stats also show he only ever tackles when he knows he's going to get the ball back. top 5% for winning tackles, bottom 5% for the amount of times he does it! If we don't sign a striker in this window then it would be good to have Mmaee continue to play until the end of the season and I believe we will get better at creating decent chances. If we don't sign a striker in this window (and I don't want us to spend a fortune on a player we don't really want to just get one in) then I think yesterday indicated that he will have to find a way of having Campbell and Mmaee as a two as neither work on their own. It might work with Cundle and Bae wider with Thompson and Junior as the inverted full backs, leaving Burger in the centre. All those players have the stamina and energy. Schumacher proved at Plymouth that he is adaptable and not married to one formation. Puts a lot of strain on the defence but to be honest most teams don't come to Stoke to attack and Schumacher has shown a preference for taking risks to attack rather than sitting back. If we played from the start like we did for the last 20 minutes yesterday I'm sure the goal would come and the opposition would get so battered that there wouldn't be much defending to do.
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Post by george2again on Jan 21, 2024 11:15:03 GMT
We could go back and forth for eternity, you clearly rate him for some reason, I don’t. If you think he’s capable of contributing and taking the club forward fair play, I don’t see it and think we need better. Yup, agree to disagree. I do think he's good enough for this team, but not as the main goalscorer, so I also agree we need that. But it doesn't have to be a no.9, a goalscoring winger/inside forward would work just as well IMO. If he’s not the number 9 where does he play. Shuball dictates dynamism , running and forward attacking, everything he can’t do really. We’re going to take a hit on him sooner or later.
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Mmaee
Jan 21, 2024 11:17:06 GMT
Post by cheekymatt71 on Jan 21, 2024 11:17:06 GMT
I thought Mmaee was improving and getting to grips with the league and man-marking a few weeks ago.
Now I think he is regressing and really isnt offering much up front for us.
He has some technical ability, but his lack of pace and general movement is clear as day.
However I cant see us signing anyone better in the January window so we may as well make do until the summer.
He might be better played as a false 9 so he drops deep and gets on the ball to release others. However we just dont have the pace in the team (bar Campbell) to make runs past him for this to work.
The pace of Vidigal is pretty atrocious given his slight stature - he needs a 2 metre head start in a 30 metre foot race against a full-back.
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Post by stiggerstackle on Jan 21, 2024 11:19:59 GMT
I thought he was helped by playing alongside Campbell, I’d be tempted to give them a couple of games together with Mmaee playing just behind.
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Mmaee
Jan 21, 2024 11:35:01 GMT
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Post by thornestein on Jan 21, 2024 11:35:01 GMT
I thought he was helped by playing alongside Campbell, I’d be tempted to give them a couple of games together with Mmaee playing just behind. that means SS changing his tactics which i very much doubt he will
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Post by OldStokie on Jan 21, 2024 12:10:09 GMT
He needs a proper centre forward alongside him and he'll score more goals. He's getting the chances but snatching at them because he's pretty much the only one good enough to make those chances. That's a lack of confidence and only when the pressure is taken away from him will we see the best in his ability. And, for me, Campbell isn't anywhere near good enough to partner him.
OS.
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Post by Veritas on Jan 21, 2024 12:14:45 GMT
He needs a proper centre forward alongside him and he'll score more goals. He's getting the chances but snatching at them because he's pretty much the only one good enough to make those chances. That's a lack of confidence and only when the pressure is taken away from him will we see the best in his ability. And, for me, Campbell isn't anywhere near good enough to partner him. OS. He needs dropping that is what he needs
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Mmaee
Jan 21, 2024 12:33:59 GMT
Post by idle on Jan 21, 2024 12:33:59 GMT
Yup, agree to disagree. I do think he's good enough for this team, but not as the main goalscorer, so I also agree we need that. But it doesn't have to be a no.9, a goalscoring winger/inside forward would work just as well IMO. If he’s not the number 9 where does he play. Shuball dictates dynamism , running and forward attacking, everything he can’t do really. We’re going to take a hit on him sooner or later. As one of the 2 AMs (with Bae or Campbell) in a 3421. Burger and Cundle in CM As one of the forwards in a 352. In 433 as one of the wide forwards provided the fullback behind him has a license to go forward (Gooch, Hoever or Thompson) on the outside as well as on the inside as the inverted fullback. And the other is a wide winger. In all of these we still need a striker up front unless Campbell suddenly finds form or Lowe/Tezgel does (which is unlikely). And Mmaee would have competition from Campbell and Vidigal for two spots in the first 11. I sure as hell hope Schumacher isn't a stubborn manager formation wise. A good manager fits the formation to the players, not the other way around. He doesn't seem like it, so I'm hopeful.
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Post by xchpotter on Jan 21, 2024 12:37:21 GMT
He can’t say he hasn’t been given a fair go. Bottom line is he ain’t scoring, has a stinking response when he falls over like a pansy and doesn’t bother getting up to help the team. We need so much more strength, pace and finishing up front than he is capable of offering.
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Mmaee
Jan 21, 2024 12:37:35 GMT
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Post by george2again on Jan 21, 2024 12:37:35 GMT
If he’s not the number 9 where does he play. Shuball dictates dynamism , running and forward attacking, everything he can’t do really. We’re going to take a hit on him sooner or later. As one of the 2 AMs (with Bae or Campbell) in a 3421. Burger and Cundle in CM As one of the forwards in a 352. In 433 as one of the wide forwards provided the fullback behind him has a license to go forward (Gooch, Hoever or Thompson) on the outside as well as on the inside as the inverted fullback. And the other is a wide winger. In all of these we still need a striker up front unless Campbell suddenly finds form or Lowe/Tezgel does (which is unlikely). And Mmaee would have competition from Campbell and Vidigal for two spots in the first 11. I sure as hell hope Schumacher isn't a stubborn manager formation wise. A good manager fits the formation to the players, not the other way around. He doesn't seem like it, so I'm hopeful. Regardless of position quite simply he’s not good enough anywhere on pitch.
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Post by biddulphchav on Jan 21, 2024 13:10:13 GMT
Good player for certain, but not a lead the line forward in this league right now. He may come good next season and start banging them on. He did look to be getting to grips with things and then has seemingly gone backwards a bit. But it was never going to be a straight line, so I’m not worried. Would really like to see him alongside someone like Campbell who can run in behind as I think Mmaee is a quality footballer and will make a lot of chances for someone like that
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Mmaee
Jan 21, 2024 13:15:51 GMT
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Post by Rt Hon Reverend Luvpump on Jan 21, 2024 13:15:51 GMT
Not good enough for me yesterday needs to up his work rate .
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Mmaee
Jan 21, 2024 13:16:23 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2024 13:16:23 GMT
If he’s not the number 9 where does he play. Shuball dictates dynamism , running and forward attacking, everything he can’t do really. We’re going to take a hit on him sooner or later. As one of the 2 AMs (with Bae or Campbell) in a 3421. Burger and Cundle in CM As one of the forwards in a 352. In 433 as one of the wide forwards provided the fullback behind him has a license to go forward (Gooch, Hoever or Thompson) on the outside as well as on the inside as the inverted fullback. And the other is a wide winger. In all of these we still need a striker up front unless Campbell suddenly finds form or Lowe/Tezgel does (which is unlikely). And Mmaee would have competition from Campbell and Vidigal for two spots in the first 11. I sure as hell hope Schumacher isn't a stubborn manager formation wise. A good manager fits the formation to the players, not the other way around. He doesn't seem like it, so I'm hopeful. I could see him in a 352. I wouldn’t be that opposed to it. However, it would demand a lot from Bae to effectively chase down everything because neither Campbell or Mmaee will. They won’t fill in the gaps he leaves when doing their jobs either. He’d be awful on the flank in my opinion. He’s flat footed and would simply stand around watching their attack build. If you are an attacking player who isn’t scoring or assisting, you need to be excellent out of possession. If you aren’t, you’re just a waste of space.
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Post by Bera’s Beano on Jan 21, 2024 13:20:01 GMT
Not good enough for me yesterday needs to up his work rate . It was his finishing yesterday that was the issue. He should have had a hat trick just from the sitters he missed alone. Good work for his run to get 1v1, straight at the keeper. Brilliant ball in from Burger right on his head, barely even made contact. Ball drops to him 6 yards out, blasts it over the bar. He’s not good enough and won’t be because he doesn’t have that strikers finishing instinct.
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Mmaee
Jan 21, 2024 13:22:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2024 13:22:37 GMT
He's a second striker, unless we sign anyone before the Sunderland game I would put Campbell up front with Mmaee and Jun-ho behind him......... Which means three at the back otherwise there is no width. I still think 3412 is our best option with the squad we have but we desperately need a left wingback version of Junior to make it work properly.
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Mmaee
Jan 21, 2024 13:27:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2024 13:27:41 GMT
He's probably the best technical forward we've had in the championship and for the majority of the season we haven't played to his strengths at all, which we need to because he's poor in quite a few areas. Heading - Bottom 20% Take ons - Bottom 5% So expecting him to create a goal out of nothing or to put the ball in the air isn't the best way to get anything out of him. Hes only an average finisher (57th percentile xg), decent passer (top 10% long range passing, top 1/3 progressive passing and average assister XA is 55th percentile), and as we know he's got decent close control (drawn fouls top 15%). The stats also show he only ever tackles when he knows he's going to get the ball back. top 5% for winning tackles, bottom 5% for the amount of times he does it! If we don't sign a striker in this window then it would be good to have Mmaee continue to play until the end of the season and I believe we will get better at creating decent chances. Some very interesting stats there which confirm he shouldn't be playing as a loan striker. Schumacher must be aware of this.
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Mmaee
Jan 21, 2024 13:30:01 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 21, 2024 13:30:01 GMT
He's a second striker, unless we sign anyone before the Sunderland game I would put Campbell up front with Mmaee and Jun-ho behind him......... Which means three at the back otherwise there is no width. I still think 3412 is our best option with the squad we have but we desperately need a left wingback version of Junior to make it work properly. I have no issue with 3 at the back if the personnel fits the system…..
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Mmaee
Jan 21, 2024 13:32:45 GMT
Post by FullerMagic on Jan 21, 2024 13:32:45 GMT
Was saying yesterday that the lone striker role is a really tricky one to fill, especially on a budget.
You're basically after someone who can do a passable impression of both roles in a 4-4-2 - the hold-up, physical stuff and the other stuff.
How many have we tried there since relegation? None have been able to make a fist of it apart from Fletcher, who was a really good £10m player at the tail end of his career.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jan 21, 2024 13:35:47 GMT
20 goals a season striker,I think if he was here for 3/4 seasons,he would be lucky to get 20 goals.
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Mmaee
Jan 21, 2024 14:07:13 GMT
Post by idle on Jan 21, 2024 14:07:13 GMT
As one of the 2 AMs (with Bae or Campbell) in a 3421. Burger and Cundle in CM As one of the forwards in a 352. In 433 as one of the wide forwards provided the fullback behind him has a license to go forward (Gooch, Hoever or Thompson) on the outside as well as on the inside as the inverted fullback. And the other is a wide winger. In all of these we still need a striker up front unless Campbell suddenly finds form or Lowe/Tezgel does (which is unlikely). And Mmaee would have competition from Campbell and Vidigal for two spots in the first 11. I sure as hell hope Schumacher isn't a stubborn manager formation wise. A good manager fits the formation to the players, not the other way around. He doesn't seem like it, so I'm hopeful. Regardless of position quite simply he’s not good enough anywhere on pitch. I disagree, and so do others, that's why we're having this discussion. You can't know that "he’s not good enough anywhere on pitch", cause he hasn't been tried as a second striker or a false nine. Although you could make the argument that's just how he's been used now, just without he personell needed to make it work. No striker or wide forward to run onto his passes. It's not like anyone else is scoring freely up front either.
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Mmaee
Jan 21, 2024 14:10:38 GMT
Post by nottsover60 on Jan 21, 2024 14:10:38 GMT
I thought he was helped by playing alongside Campbell, I’d be tempted to give them a couple of games together with Mmaee playing just behind. that means SS changing his tactics which i very much doubt he will He changed the Plymouth game plan when they got promoted. I think he seems to be very flexible and tries to play to players' strengths.
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Mmaee
Jan 21, 2024 14:14:26 GMT
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Post by thornestein on Jan 21, 2024 14:14:26 GMT
that means SS changing his tactics which i very much doubt he will He changed the Plymouth game plan when they got promoted. I think he seems to be very flexible and tries to play to players' strengths. he does , and he will alter it during a game , but i think his preferred starting tactic is 433
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Mmaee
Jan 21, 2024 14:22:28 GMT
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Post by thehoof on Jan 21, 2024 14:22:28 GMT
If we’re saying none of Mmae, Wesley, Gayle, Campbell or Vidigal are natural leaders no.9’s and Lowe isn’t ready then the head coach should either switch to two upfront OR get a quality CF in and offload as many of our current crop? I think that’s a fair anlagy to be honest. How does Lowe ever get ready if he isn’t picked? Campbell and Wesley are yesterday’s men, Gayle is a goal every 30 games based on his last 4 years, Vidigal has already scored his yearly quota and Mmae is just infuriating. Stansfield is 21- if he was at Stoke, we’d be saying “not ready”.
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Post by onepara on Jan 21, 2024 14:29:34 GMT
He's a wimp, & ducked out on their free kick when he was in the wall. The flight of the ball went where his head would have been, had he not ducked out.
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