|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 11, 2023 20:34:20 GMT
There's a reason why Johnsons spent majority of his career plodding about at bang average mid table fodder Preston, it sums the bloke up. He's absolute shit and we should be wanting better if we have any ambition to reach the play offs. I'm not a Ince fan either but at least he can say he's played in the prem. Since we've been in this shit league only two opposition players have caught my eye at Stoke, Johnson and Josh Bowler. If they were any better than good championship players they'd be in the Premier league, they're not, we are where we are. But Ince has played at that level. Johnson hasn’t. It doesn’t matter what we are now. Ince has had the better career and been the better player. |
|
|
|
Post by Bojan Mackey on Nov 11, 2023 20:35:44 GMT
Playing an over the hill Preston mainstay over an exciting 20 year old prospect is absolutely mind boggling.
|
|
|
|
Post by numpty40 on Nov 11, 2023 20:52:03 GMT
Since we've been in this shit league only two opposition players have caught my eye at Stoke, Johnson and Josh Bowler. If they were any better than good championship players they'd be in the Premier league, they're not, we are where we are. But Ince has played at that level. Johnson hasn’t. It doesn’t matter what we are now. Ince has had the better career and been the better player. I can only comment on what I've watched in the Championship at Stoke. Stoke paid £10m for Ince and all I saw was an absolute coward who hid behind defenders so he couldn't receive a Stoke throw. I compare that to Johnson who always wants the ball and is defending from the front. There is absolutely no comparison between the two players. I'd have 10 Johnsons above 10 Inces any day of the week. |
|
|
|
Post by terryconroysmagic on Nov 11, 2023 21:09:50 GMT
But Ince has played at that level. Johnson hasn’t. It doesn’t matter what we are now. Ince has had the better career and been the better player. I can only comment on what I've watched in the Championship at Stoke. Stoke paid £10m for Ince and all I saw was an absolute coward who hid behind defenders so he couldn't receive a Stoke throw. I compare that to Johnson who always wants the ball and is defending from the front. There is absolutely no comparison between the two players. I'd have 10 Johnsons above 10 Inces any day of the week. Spot on re Ince not wanting/showing for the ball. He was a disgrace, just Bayern’s love child so you’ll never get him to agree |
|
|
|
Post by Biblical on Nov 11, 2023 21:18:56 GMT
Johnson has had some decent games but I haven’t seen anything in the last few to justify why he’s starting ahead of Bae.
|
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 11, 2023 21:37:25 GMT
I can only comment on what I've watched in the Championship at Stoke. Stoke paid £10m for Ince and all I saw was an absolute coward who hid behind defenders so he couldn't receive a Stoke throw. I compare that to Johnson who always wants the ball and is defending from the front. There is absolutely no comparison between the two players. I'd have 10 Johnsons above 10 Inces any day of the week. Spot on re Ince not wanting/showing for the ball. He was a disgrace, just Bayern’s love child so you’ll never get him to agree Ince has played to a higher level. That’s just a fact. He’s had the better career and Ince had a good 3 months for us. Johnson hasn’t. I don’t want Johnson showing for the ball tbh. He can’t use it. |
|
|
|
Post by Olgrligm on Nov 11, 2023 22:22:35 GMT
With my limited expertise, Johnson is playing because we're a pressing team. That's the way that the manager wants to set up and when we've stuck to that gameplan last season and this season, it has worked well for us. The same is true for Gayle.
Johnson and Gayle are both very effective pressers. That's by no means the same thing as saying 'they work hard and run around a lot'; they do work hard but they work intelligently to execute a gameplan. The problem is that in certain games, like Cardiff and Coventry, their execution of the press is good and neutralises the opposition, but leaves us looking quite impotent up front.
This causes a bit of a conundrum. When you remove Gayle and Johnson from the side for more creative players, you theoretically add more edge in front of goal but actually lose the press. It brings the opposition right back into the game - as it did against Cardiff - and completely removes any attacking threat because we can't get out of our own half.
I don't have a solution but I believe that's the whole thing in a nutshell.
|
|
|
|
Post by pavel on Nov 11, 2023 22:58:26 GMT
Junho needs to play as a number 10 or an attacking midfielder, he showed yet again what he can bring to the team today. We desperately lack creativity and he is a spark that can run at players and open up space for others and bring creativity through the centre. At the moment we really only have Vidigal that can do that on the wing and like all wingers it is all too easy for the opposition to nullify them if they are the only outlet. Playing Johnson is the safe option as is Leris, I like Leris but in a forward line of Leris, Gayle and Vidigal we just don't have enough to stretch or worry the opposition. I feel Leris is only in the team to protect Hoever and neither of them are doing enough to my mind to justify that particular set up.
A point today, which is very welcome, but it was mostly dire stuff and we certainly rode our luck. I think with a few tweaks, Juhno for Johnson, Junior for Hoever and Campbell with Mmaee and Vidigal up front could transform the potency of this team.
|
|
|
|
Post by sensiblestokie on Nov 12, 2023 1:24:41 GMT
What more has this man got to do to start. With our current great run Neil has earned the right to get my blind faith backing with any team he puts out.
But this boy is good good, every time he comes on he works hard, looks exciting, looks to play forward, everything we need in that role which Johnson isn’t really doing.
I genuinely don’t understand how he isn’t starting yet .
|
|
|
|
Post by nonameface on Nov 12, 2023 10:21:25 GMT
With my limited expertise, Johnson is playing because we're a pressing team. That's the way that the manager wants to set up and when we've stuck to that gameplan last season and this season, it has worked well for us. The same is true for Gayle. Johnson and Gayle are both very effective pressers. That's by no means the same thing as saying 'they work hard and run around a lot'; they do work hard but they work intelligently to execute a gameplan. The problem is that in certain games, like Cardiff and Coventry, their execution of the press is good and neutralises the opposition, but leaves us looking quite impotent up front. This causes a bit of a conundrum. When you remove Gayle and Johnson from the side for more creative players, you theoretically add more edge in front of goal but actually lose the press. It brings the opposition right back into the game - as it did against Cardiff - and completely removes any attacking threat because we can't get out of our own half. I don't have a solution but I believe that's the whole thing in a nutshell. Exactly this. Junho should play in those games where we don't need to be as reliant upon the press. If he presses well in those games then he can start to feature more because individually he looks more threatening than Johnson. Think Johnson has been fairly similar to Smallbone last season, Smallbone pressed slightly better but wasn't as good technically on the ball. |
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Nov 12, 2023 10:28:12 GMT
With my limited expertise, Johnson is playing because we're a pressing team. That's the way that the manager wants to set up and when we've stuck to that gameplan last season and this season, it has worked well for us. The same is true for Gayle. Johnson and Gayle are both very effective pressers. That's by no means the same thing as saying 'they work hard and run around a lot'; they do work hard but they work intelligently to execute a gameplan. The problem is that in certain games, like Cardiff and Coventry, their execution of the press is good and neutralises the opposition, but leaves us looking quite impotent up front. This causes a bit of a conundrum. When you remove Gayle and Johnson from the side for more creative players, you theoretically add more edge in front of goal but actually lose the press. It brings the opposition right back into the game - as it did against Cardiff - and completely removes any attacking threat because we can't get out of our own half. I don't have a solution but I believe that's the whole thing in a nutshell. Exactly this. Junho should play in those games where we don't need to be as reliant upon the press. If he presses well in those games then he can start to feature more because individually he looks more threatening than Johnson. Think Johnson has been fairly similar to Smallbone last season, Smallbone pressed slightly better but wasn't as good technically on the ball. Smallbone was miles better than Johnson |
|
|
|
Post by whatsashig on Nov 12, 2023 11:15:24 GMT
Spot on re Ince not wanting/showing for the ball. He was a disgrace, just Bayern’s love child so you’ll never get him to agree Ince has played to a higher level. That’s just a fact. He’s had the better career and Ince had a good 3 months for us. Johnson hasn’t. I don’t want Johnson showing for the ball tbh. He can’t use it. He’s been in a side at a higher level. |
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 12, 2023 11:22:18 GMT
Ince has played to a higher level. That’s just a fact. He’s had the better career and Ince had a good 3 months for us. Johnson hasn’t. I don’t want Johnson showing for the ball tbh. He can’t use it. He’s been in a side at a higher level. The Premier League is better than International football. Especially the level Jamaica play. |
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Nov 12, 2023 11:27:11 GMT
Playing an over the hill Preston mainstay over an exciting 20 year old prospect is absolutely mind boggling. Did you say that last week when the game completely passed Junho by when he came on looking far worse than Johnson had in a game that seemed to cry out for his creativity? . He needs careful handling and l noticed at one time last week another player(Rose I think) explaining something to him so obviously he is still a bit unsure of tactics etc. Hopefully this softly, softly approach to introducing him to the team will reap the benefits. We have lost too many exciting young players over the last ten years in my opinion because we have thrown them in and expected them to perform when they have never played at the level before. I hope the same approach explains why Junior has not had much game time yet. |
|
|
|
Post by questionable on Nov 12, 2023 11:34:27 GMT
Playing an over the hill Preston mainstay over an exciting 20 year old prospect is absolutely mind boggling. Did you say that last week when the game completely passed Junho by when he came on looking far worse than Johnson had in a game that seemed to cry out for his creativity? . He needs careful handling and l noticed at one time last week another player(Rose I think) explaining something to him so obviously he is still a bit unsure of tactics etc. Hopefully this softly, softly approach to introducing him to the team will reap the benefits. We have lost too many exciting young players over the last ten years in my opinion because we have thrown them in and expected them to perform when they have never played at the level before. I hope the same approach explains why Junior has not had much game time yet. There’s no reason at all why Junior shouldn’t be playing, the very limited time he’s had on the pitch he’s the stand out player, Whilst I’m welcoming the upturn in results it’s not hard to see where we can improve with the slightest of tweaks here and there. |
|
|
|
Post by gogogadget on Nov 12, 2023 11:44:35 GMT
What more has this man got to do to start. With our current great run Neil has earned the right to get my blind faith backing with any team he puts out. But this boy is good good, every time he comes on he works hard, looks exciting, looks to play forward, everything we need in that role which Johnson isn’t really doing. I genuinely don’t understand how he isn’t starting yet . Heard a lot of reference to adjusting to his new surroundings, team mates and a new country/culture. I can only imagine they believe they are protecting him by slowly introducing him to game time. It’s frustrating to watch, especially they last 2 games with little creativity Vidigal looked frustrated when he was taken off yesterday. I imagine he would have loved to be on the pitch with Meae instead of Gayle, and probably Bae instead of Johnson. Really looking forward to a Game where Meae starts, Bae starts, Vidigal and Haks start together Probably never see it |
|
|
|
Post by banksy1art on Nov 12, 2023 11:48:50 GMT
It’s quite clear to me that we are trying to ease him into the team and get his strength up a bit, he already looks like he’s become more stocky since he joined us.
|
|
|
|
Post by mtrstudent on Nov 12, 2023 11:54:19 GMT
Some Korean friends from work told me that western culture can be a shock. Fine to visit, but once you start living here it's different. Might explain the slow intro, but I'd also think that getting him involved would help with distracting from any issues.
I loved how he seems like a flare player but still did a thundering tackle yesterday.
|
|
|
|
Post by biglad180 on Nov 12, 2023 12:07:52 GMT
its about time for Bae to be given a start of games now he is the future along with Tchamadu.
|
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Nov 12, 2023 12:55:47 GMT
Can't believe still talking about Ince
A talented waste of space, apparently a really nice chap but as a fan he's one of the players have hated most due to his abundantly obvious cowardice on the pitch, not many Stoke players past and present can think of who wouldn't rather have in our team
As for Junho, get him in the side
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2023 12:58:08 GMT
I would definitely start him next game. Johnson is a good player but has had a quiet couple of games. We have players ready for a chance and these are the times you give it to them
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2023 13:05:00 GMT
Don't get how he is not playing and also junior.
I totally accept that AN appears to be getting 18 new recruits to get gel , which is not easy and deserves credit for that .
However, back to the O.P. both , junho and junior, have taken their chance, come in and done a good job , and don't deserve to be dropped.
Furthermore, it's a secondary point, but a valid one , that both are young and our players , and if allowed to flourish, would be worth millions to the club.
|
|
|
|
Post by kustokie on Nov 12, 2023 13:25:33 GMT
Spot on re Ince not wanting/showing for the ball. He was a disgrace, just Bayern’s love child so you’ll never get him to agree Ince has played to a higher level. That’s just a fact. He’s had the better career and Ince had a good 3 months for us. Johnson hasn’t. I don’t want Johnson showing for the ball tbh. He can’t use it. The only reason he’s at Stoke is because Neil liked him at Preston. He’s like a lot of our midfield players - over-the-hill, mediocre, championship-level journeyman. In fact we have too many midfield players and Neil keeps playing the wrong ones. I understand the need to establish a settled starting line up but this isn’t it. Jonho and Gooch look a lot more energetic and willing to push forward. Hoever turned out to be a flash in the pan and should be dropped in favour of Gooch. |
|
|
|
Post by middleoftheboothen on Nov 12, 2023 14:15:35 GMT
Spot on re Ince not wanting/showing for the ball. He was a disgrace, just Bayern’s love child so you’ll never get him to agree Ince has played to a higher level. That’s just a fact. He’s had the better career and Ince had a good 3 months for us. Johnson hasn’t. I don’t want Johnson showing for the ball tbh. He can’t use it. Ince had three good months in four seasons for us Bayern. Johnson has had four months here. I'd love to see Bae played as I think he is real quality but to say Johnson's wank and then use Ince to back up your argument is daft. He was tragic for us and one of the worst players I've ever watched for hiding on the pitch and shitting out when the going got tough. Johnson isn't great by any stretch but he won't hide and shit out. In fact he never hides from the ball it's what he does with it that's the problem. Give me Johnson over Ince anyday though. |
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 12, 2023 14:30:08 GMT
Ince has played to a higher level. That’s just a fact. He’s had the better career and Ince had a good 3 months for us. Johnson hasn’t. I don’t want Johnson showing for the ball tbh. He can’t use it. Ince had three good months in four seasons for us Bayern. Johnson has had four months here. I'd love to see Bae played as I think he is real quality but to say Johnson's wank and then use Ince to back up your argument is daft. He was tragic for us and one of the worst players I've ever watched for hiding on the pitch and shitting out when the going got tough. Johnson isn't great by any stretch but he won't hide and shit out. In fact he never hides from the ball it's what he does with it that's the problem. Give me Johnson over Ince anyday though. I’ve not used to Ince to back that up 🤣 Read back as to what the Ince thing is about. I didn’t bring him up…… |
|
|
|
Post by biglad180 on Nov 12, 2023 15:05:28 GMT
after our resent run of 5 games without loss i think we should keep the defence as it is up to now,, but i would deffo start Bae in johnsons place if alls not going well for him we can bring johnson on for him,
|
|
|
|
Post by middleoftheboothen on Nov 12, 2023 17:59:55 GMT
Ince had three good months in four seasons for us Bayern. Johnson has had four months here. I'd love to see Bae played as I think he is real quality but to say Johnson's wank and then use Ince to back up your argument is daft. He was tragic for us and one of the worst players I've ever watched for hiding on the pitch and shitting out when the going got tough. Johnson isn't great by any stretch but he won't hide and shit out. In fact he never hides from the ball it's what he does with it that's the problem. Give me Johnson over Ince anyday though. I’ve not used to Ince to back that up 🤣 Read back as to what the Ince thing is about. I didn’t bring him up…… Fair enough mate I didn't read that far up to be fair. The rest still stands though. |
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 13, 2023 6:16:29 GMT
I’ve not used to Ince to back that up 🤣 Read back as to what the Ince thing is about. I didn’t bring him up…… Fair enough mate I didn't read that far up to be fair. The rest still stands though. As does what I’ve said. Ince is/was a better player. |
|
|
|
Post by clarkeda on Nov 13, 2023 6:56:08 GMT
This is going to sound made. He reminds me of a more creative Park Ji Sung
|
|
|
|
Post by emretezzy on Nov 13, 2023 7:53:42 GMT
Bae Jun Ho
Johnson
Hippo
Ince
Ability in descending order
|
|
