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Post by s8to on Feb 6, 2023 11:32:16 GMT
Oh how far we have fallen when we measure success in by surviving in the Championship! Just how far have we fallen in such a short space of time?
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Post by dutchstokie on Feb 6, 2023 12:13:50 GMT
17 points looks a big ask looking at the fixtures we have some really tough away games coming up. it does but mathematically we can afford to lose 10 of the 17, win 5 and draw 2 and still get to 17 points, surely we can manage that  |
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Post by etebojan on Feb 6, 2023 13:16:48 GMT
it does but mathematically we can afford to lose 10 of the 17, win 5 and draw 2 and still get to 17 points, surely we can manage that on second thoughts maybe thats asking too much  |
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Post by chigstoke on Feb 6, 2023 13:20:25 GMT
I’m sick and fucking tired of fabled rebuilds. We’ve tried it 3 times so far with utter failure, we’re going to have our 4th go in the summer and we might even be doing it in the division below if we don’t buck our ideas up. There has to be a point where we look inwards at the running of the club and think ‘maybe we’re the problem’? But you know full well we won’t.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2023 13:55:04 GMT
Huddersfield and Blackpool are the key , 2 wins and happy days , 2 defeats and we have one foot in league 1
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2023 14:08:27 GMT
Oh how far we have fallen when we measure success in by surviving in the Championship! Just how far have we fallen in such a short space of time? As AN mentioned , if you are relegated after a decade in the prem , you have a premier league cost base and that means you HAVE to go up in the next couple of seasons ,or you are between a rock and a hard place . He is right and between a rock and a hard place is where we now are . We can't afford even one more berahino/wimmer/ dwight gayle style, long term fuck up in the transfer market, or we done for. We need to sign some muscle( we have too many lightweights) that can play a bit , a top goalie and have a bit of luck. Fingers crossed ! Won't be easy , but we have to believe. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 6, 2023 16:36:35 GMT
Given a rebuild starts with a clearing of the decks it's already begun - Bursik, Souttar and to all intent and purpose Flint gone. In one sense saving the money and rebuilding in the summer is a good idea as there are way more options, players out if contract and a summer window to get the team up and running. However we have a paper thin squad that's misfiring and are a couple of injuries away from being in big trouble. The sooner those 17 points come the better and fingers crossed the gamble comes off. I think we've left ourselves with far too much to do in the Summer. We really needed at least a couple of players seen to be mainstays of our starting line up for next season in on permanent transfer in the window that's just closed. To get perms in we needed the Souttar money earlier in the window and the only way we could do that would have been to accept Leicester's first offer and under sell. As it was we got an offer we couldn't afford to pass up way too late in the window to do anything with it. I agree in an ideal world we could have done with a couple of permanent transfers but as it turned out we didn't have that option because we hadn't got the money. The issue for me is we shouldn't have let Flint go and knowing that Souttar going on the last day was a distinct possibility we should have brought in a fit, solid CB in as cover, even if it was a loan. Tuanzebe may well have bags of potential but in the situation we have created for ourselves he's a massive risk. |
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Feb 6, 2023 16:50:05 GMT
Are we capable of staying out of a relegation battle???
Round about mid-March, you start to see those at the bottom trying to make a fist of it, picking up points from mid-table teams, even the odd upset with those at the top!!!
If this starts happening, are we capable of doing it ourselves???
We have 3 games now that you would normally consider "winnable" games....
But when was the last time we won 3 on the trot???
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Post by chiswickpotter on Feb 6, 2023 17:12:14 GMT
We should stop employing shit managers then Or show some kind of imagination when recruiting one . These owners wouldn't have touched Kompany or Carrick in a million years. Jones was pretty bold and imaginative. And MoN was a definite coup at the time. Both had turned several clubs down |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 6, 2023 17:58:50 GMT
Are we capable of staying out of a relegation battle??? Round about mid-March, you start to see those at the bottom trying to make a fist of it, picking up points from mid-table teams, even the odd upset with those at the top!!! If this starts happening, are we capable of doing it ourselves??? We have 3 games now that you would normally consider "winnable" games.... But when was the last time we won 3 on the trot???[/q]We are in that classic position of hovering above the relegation zone most of the season not quite believing we should be there. Teams who spend most the season in the relegation zone know they are in a dogfight and battle for every point. It's the teams like us who get sucked in towards the end of the season that end up going down because they get it too late. We need those points sooner rather than later. |
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Post by peterpan1 on Feb 6, 2023 18:04:17 GMT
Another rebuild ….every window since relegation wether it be summer or window the board back the manager and we sit back and think “wow this is a squad” and eagerly anticipate seeing it in action only to quickly see it evaporate before our eyes Aint life grand This is exactly why I was saying the other week that I simply cannot get excited anymore about any players we sign, because within a few weeks of any players being here they turn to dogshit like the rest. It's depressing the fuck out of me being a Stoke fan lately. This is correct and begs an interesting question. Is it the culture/identity at the club that needs changing? I for one have no affinity to a single player in the squad. Not one of them is fit to tie the laces of a Shawcross, Walters or a Whelan. They played with passion and for the shirt. It is depressing to think of these players from only a few yrs ago. |
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Post by nott1 on Feb 6, 2023 18:08:46 GMT
This is exactly why I was saying the other week that I simply cannot get excited anymore about any players we sign, because within a few weeks of any players being here they turn to dogshit like the rest. It's depressing the fuck out of me being a Stoke fan lately. This is correct and begs an interesting question. Is it the culture/identity at the club that needs changing? I for one have no affinity to a single player in the squad. Not one of them is fit to tie the laces of a Shawcross, Walters or a Whelan. They played with passion and for the shirt. It is depressing to think of these players from only a few yrs ago. I just read that we are linked to a striker in the summer.......3 goals in 32 games..oh whoopee what ambition! |
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 6, 2023 18:16:34 GMT
This is exactly why I was saying the other week that I simply cannot get excited anymore about any players we sign, because within a few weeks of any players being here they turn to dogshit like the rest. It's depressing the fuck out of me being a Stoke fan lately. This is correct and begs an interesting question. Is it the culture/identity at the club that needs changing? I for one have no affinity to a single player in the squad. Not one of them is fit to tie the laces of a Shawcross, Walters or a Whelan. They played with passion and for the shirt. It is depressing to think of these players from only a few yrs ago.
O’Neill can feel the benefit of these changes but he knows this is a process. It took him time with Northern Ireland to alter mindsets and routines — and eventually results — and he learned that it cannot be achieved solely top-down. The culture, he says, “can’t always come from the staff”.
He continues: “The players have to drive it. The manager initiates it and pushes it, but the players must drive it. Otherwise, it’s just the manager talking and it’s tiresome.
“I said openly to the players when I came in that they were underachieving as a group. The club was in the position it was in and they were responsible. I didn’t hide away from it. I said, ‘As a group, we have to make it better, there’s no one else who can do that. It’s not as if I can sign 20 new players. For some reason, I’m your fourth manager in two years’. I think you have to be honest. You can’t sugar-coat it.
“Our training is markedly different this season, because we’ve got better players, better types. The players drive that. We had to play the hand we’d been dealt. At the start, there were levels of performance we’d have to tolerate, we didn’t like them necessarily. But those are the players you have, you can’t destroy them. You’re at the bottom of the league.
“We are still a long way from where we’d like it to be, but it’s a long way from where it was. Things said by Ryan Shawcross and Joe Allen, I take those things as a benchmark. Joe says the difference between now and then is night and day. But it’s not enough just to have one or two like Joe or Shawcross. They need help. Chester helps. He’s a diamond of a lad.”How many cultural resets have we had though? That was basically MON's big thing. This is him from 2 yrs ago - and although nobody can doubt he was an intelligent bloke whose heart was in the right place who thought he knew the types of character we needed, the results are clearly in on that one. He oversaw a complete squad overhaul and completely dismantled the medical, sports science and recruitment departments. Yet now we apparently need another rebuild. And no doubt another will be along shortly. I think it comes down to the fact we're swamped with sub-standard players, and when you're in the situation, lots of other things get thrown into the mix and lots of absolute horseshit is spoken around the periphery, when the simple problem is the lack of talent and players who can do their jobs at the standard needed in the squad. |
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Post by independent on Feb 6, 2023 18:52:54 GMT
This is correct and begs an interesting question. Is it the culture/identity at the club that needs changing? I for one have no affinity to a single player in the squad. Not one of them is fit to tie the laces of a Shawcross, Walters or a Whelan. They played with passion and for the shirt. It is depressing to think of these players from only a few yrs ago.
O’Neill can feel the benefit of these changes but he knows this is a process. It took him time with Northern Ireland to alter mindsets and routines — and eventually results — and he learned that it cannot be achieved solely top-down. The culture, he says, “can’t always come from the staff”.
He continues: “The players have to drive it. The manager initiates it and pushes it, but the players must drive it. Otherwise, it’s just the manager talking and it’s tiresome.
“I said openly to the players when I came in that they were underachieving as a group. The club was in the position it was in and they were responsible. I didn’t hide away from it. I said, ‘As a group, we have to make it better, there’s no one else who can do that. It’s not as if I can sign 20 new players. For some reason, I’m your fourth manager in two years’. I think you have to be honest. You can’t sugar-coat it.
“Our training is markedly different this season, because we’ve got better players, better types. The players drive that. We had to play the hand we’d been dealt. At the start, there were levels of performance we’d have to tolerate, we didn’t like them necessarily. But those are the players you have, you can’t destroy them. You’re at the bottom of the league.
“We are still a long way from where we’d like it to be, but it’s a long way from where it was. Things said by Ryan Shawcross and Joe Allen, I take those things as a benchmark. Joe says the difference between now and then is night and day. But it’s not enough just to have one or two like Joe or Shawcross. They need help. Chester helps. He’s a diamond of a lad.”How many cultural resets have we had though? That was basically MON's big thing. This is him from 2 yrs ago - and although nobody can doubt he was an intelligent bloke whose heart was in the right place who thought he knew the types of character we needed, the results are clearly in on that one. He oversaw a complete squad overhaul and completely dismantled the medical, sports science and recruitment departments. Yet now we apparently need another rebuild. And no doubt another will be along shortly. I think it comes down to the fact we're swamped with sub-standard players, and when you're in the situation, lots of other things get thrown into the mix and lots of absolute horseshit is spoken around the periphery, when the simple problem is the lack of talent and players who can do their jobs at the standard needed in the squad.Of course you are right. But that is what happens when you have to sell all your best players and replace them on lower wages with Freebies and loans. Why is anyone surprised that the quality of the playing staff has deteriorated. Thankfully we are at our lowest point and can begin our first actual rebuild in June after 3 years getting back on our feet. Since we got relegated we have lost somewhere around £140/180 million after gambling on getting straight back up and failing to do so. What is so difficult to understand about what has happened? |
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Post by independent on Feb 6, 2023 19:22:17 GMT
In the Premier we had an income of about £125 million. In the Championship we have £25 million if we are lucky. One year alone we lost £88 million. Do you think that we could have continued like that? How do you save £100 million a year?
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Post by Pugsley on Feb 6, 2023 19:39:20 GMT
In the Premier we had an income of about £125 million. In the Championship we have £25 million if we are lucky. One year alone we lost £88 million. Do you think that we could have continued like that? How do you save £100 million a year? Manage your parachute payments appropriately. Recruit properly. Sell well. Maximise commercial income. Loads of stuff that requires effort. We're lazy arsed. |
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Post by independent on Feb 6, 2023 20:19:46 GMT
Agreed. But if you have to save £100 million a year it is not possible to do it without letting a helluva lot of staff go. Even Man.Utd spend about 60% of their income on wages. Some championship clubs are spending 135% of their income on wages. The clubs in the championship owe £1,700,000,000 or an average of £70 million each. Reading are not allowed to buy a player for the last year. Sheffield Utd. likewise after failing to make a payment due on a player they bought on HP. Cardiff's Chairman has already said that half of the clubs in the League are for sale without it being public knowledge. Sheffield Utd. are being bought for £90 million despite the fact that they are very likely to receive £120 million in TV money next year. According to Alex Neil we are now back on an even keel after only 3 years, due to MON taking the slaps and biting the bullet. How many Championship clubs paid out transfer fees this season. Even when a club like Blackburn have a valuable player (Brereton Diaz) they will wind up losing him for nothing as he runs down his contract.
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Post by kjpt140v on Feb 7, 2023 21:18:15 GMT
We have 17 games left in which we need a minimum of 17 points to ensure we are starting whatever rebuilding takes place in the Championship we can’t afford to begin another rebuilding outside the Championship because as many clubs including ourselves have found there is no magic route to success. The transfer window closed and as expected Harry was sold on the very last day, that is so stoke city. If anyone believed the story that he was injured I have a bridge to sell you. The part I didn’t consider, we would then bring in players who unlike Harry were injured and unable to play for at least 2 of those vital 18 games that were left. If both play at least 15 of the last 17 games and make the difference required then nobody will care, however if for some reason they don’t play that many games as these niggling injuries turn out to be harder to resolve then fundamental questions need to be asked. If a player gets injured while playing then that’s tough but if you sign them injured and then they fail to play enough games then I don’t want to hear any excuses from anyone about we didn’t have much time and had to get people in at the last minute, we knew Harry was leaving after the World Cup. None of that matters for now we as a collective, players, management and supporters have to come together to get those 17 points so we can at least start the rebuild in the Championship. The defence still look error prone and hopefully the new keeper can add some stability once he works with them in training and Axel is declared fit and Taylor is back in contention. We need Pearson to be fit also to protect the back 4 or5. I do believe we have just about enough but that is more because I believe there are 3 clubs worse than us but don’t press me to name them right now. If those new players do come into the side and make a real difference then I think we will reach 50 points comfortably but this is Stoke City and knowing our planning it will go to the very last few games. I can assure AN that supporters won’t stand for him suddenly announcing in this week’s press conference that Axel and Ben are a little further away from full fitness than we thought and we are not winning games he will find that good will among supporters might dwindle very fast. In a relegation fight and that’s what we are in if players come in they need to be out on the pitch making a difference good or bad what we don’t need is a few more spectators just watching What would I want a bridge for? I only have a small house. |
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