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Post by str8outtahampton on Aug 1, 2022 17:46:50 GMT
All this empowerment bullshit about running around in a sports bra too. One of the most planned celebrations I’ve seen. She made sure she stopped, paused had a good look to see all cameras were on her then whipped it off. I've seen it all now. Fragile men will come up with any excuse to put these ladies down. The celebration was iconic even without the equality and empowerment angle...an extra time final winner against the Germans at Wembley with a bunch of passion? Excellent! You seem to be forgetting the constant sniping at the men's game - in fact the sexism inherent in some of the comments about its shortcomings. And if at some point in the future a woman playing for us beats John Ritchie's record, and is described as our all-time top scorer, I will spontaneously combust. Although not before writing a stiff letter to the Telegraph. It's an outrage.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Aug 1, 2022 17:52:01 GMT
I take your point about it being a sports bra (and I did know it was!) but I still think if I were a woman I'd only be taking my top off in front of millions of viewers if the goal had been given. Maybe its just me but even as a bloke I'd feel a prat taking my shirt off and getting a yellow card for celebrating a goal which had been disallowed! I agree as sexist as this may sound it’s a lot more sexually provocative for a woman to show her sports bra than it is for a man to go bare chested. And tbh I’m not bothered either way I just don’t think it’s as big a deal as they are making out. There is a difference in how it’s portrayed though. Empowering for a women stupidity for a man. You've clearly compleeeeeetely misunderstood what people are saying about empowerment...the reason they're saying it's empowering, is precisely because it shows it ISN'T provocative or sexual for a woman to simply have breasts. She can do things precisely like that and not just be seen for her body parts for blokes to perv at. Her doing that shouldn't be any more strange/provocative/shocking to see than when Aguero did it when Man City won the league simply because she possesses certain body parts!! It's empowering because 99.99% of the population saw her do that and saw nothing more than a footballer celebrating and going batshit mental after scoring in the biggest match of their life. Very, very few people watched it and thought "Ooh boobs snigger" You also seem to be blaming her for it despite no media outlet that i've seen claiming she did it for any empowerment reasons. She simply celebrated, the media have said that celebration is empowering NOT that Kelly herself was trying to make some grand statement and planned it for that reason, it simply what the media have taken from it.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Aug 1, 2022 17:52:40 GMT
I take your point about it being a sports bra (and I did know it was!) but I still think if I were a woman I'd only be taking my top off in front of millions of viewers if the goal had been given. Maybe its just me but even as a bloke I'd feel a prat taking my shirt off and getting a yellow card for celebrating a goal which had been disallowed! I agree as sexist as this may sound it’s a lot more sexually provocative for a woman to show her sports bra than it is for a man to go bare chested. And tbh I’m not bothered either way I just don’t think it’s as big a deal as they are making out. There is a difference in how it’s portrayed though. Empowering for a women stupidity for a man. Salop you seem to be treating it as a bigger deal than the rest of us. I certainly didn't find anything odd or untoward about her celebration. I certainly wouldn't dream of criticising anyone, male or female. who celebrates scoring a goal to put their team ahead with 10 minutes to go of extra time in a European final. And, as far as I'm concerned they can go as OTT about it as they want - chances are they will never score a more significant goal in their career.
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Post by misterj on Aug 1, 2022 17:56:20 GMT
But doesn’t pointing out that the sniping at the men’s’ game in itself become sniping at the women’s’ game? Women have been playing about 25 yrs compared to men 150-160 yrs, in that time the women’s’ game has moved massively forwards while the men’s (certainly in the last 25 yrs IMO - did someone mention Sky TV + prem League money?) has gone hugely backwards ……. rule-bending, cheating, play acting, not accepting ref decisions, being obnoxious to their own coaching staff, stupid money, big heads + (the big one for me) having NOWT in common with the fans
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Post by leicspotter on Aug 1, 2022 18:02:51 GMT
Can't we all just be happy for them, and proud of them? I didn't watch the game, but then I don't watch much footie on TV, save it for suffering at Stoke, home and away My 2 granddaughters watched it, and what a buzz they have got from seeing women's football on TV...they now have proper role models. Hopefully the eldest (7 years old) will get to see her heroes at the Bet365 in September I hope the women's game really takes off now...I very much doubt I shall watch much, if any of it, but, as I said above, that applies to men's football as well. It doesn't mean I'm not totally psyched by what these girls have achieved...good on 'em!
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Aug 1, 2022 18:14:33 GMT
Can't we all just be happy for them, and proud of them? I didn't watch the game, but then I don't watch much footie on TV, save it for suffering at Stoke, home and away My 2 granddaughters watched it, and what a buzz they have got from seeing women's football on TV...they now have proper role models. Hopefully the eldest (7 years old) will get to see her heroes at the Bet365 in September I hope the women's game really takes off now...I very much doubt I shall watch much, if any of it, but, as I said above, that applies to men's football as well. It doesn't mean I'm not totally psyched by what these girls have achieved...good on 'em! 100%! What's totally bizarre is that as an Englishman, i'm used to having to defend the men's team but it's almost 100% defending them from people from other countries. On here, it's defending an England team from other Englishmen!!
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Post by davethebass on Aug 1, 2022 18:16:58 GMT
Exactly. Was thinking that too. It can never be like for like. Looked up the records earlier... Rooney goals per game 0.44, Greaves 0.77, Woodward 1.26! (Didn't see Camsell on the list I saw). So yeah, if we're gonna bother with records anyway, no reason not to include Ellen White So if the Stoke City Ladies team got themselves a prolific striker who scored 177 goals, you'd be happy to consider her as the club's all time scorer ahead of John Ritchie? And if we're picking and choosing records then the women's time records in sports like athletics, swimming and cycling need to be scrubbed from the record books. This is absolute nonsense. Yeah I'd be happy to consider her as the record scorer yeah. Like I said in my first post about it, I think its more comparable to the amount of medals won rather than a time record. I honestly don't think its nonsense at all. But that's only my opinion.
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Post by cvillestokie on Aug 1, 2022 18:17:52 GMT
A good result but absolutely nothing to do with the mens game at all. The majority of games will go back to being largely ignored at club level. It seems to me that they want to force the womens game on us as an equal product. You can’t compare any records to the mens game Alex Scott is wrong moaning about sponsorship etc too. They attracted what they did in 2018 as that was the going rate then. Same as moaning about grounds prepared to host games. One day it might reach the same economic highs as mens football but at the moment the mens euros makes billions and has to subsidise the losses this tournament has incurred. All this empowerment bullshit about running around in a sports bra too. One of the most planned celebrations I’ve seen. She made sure she stopped, paused had a good look to see all cameras were on her then whipped it off. I'm pretty sure that she stopped, looked at the lineswoman and ref and made sure that it was a goal before running off actually.
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Post by sheds1862 on Aug 1, 2022 18:35:00 GMT
Playing devil's advocate
Playing budget 24/25 season is split 50/50 between Stoke men average crowd 20'000 plus and Stoke women average crowd 500 ? That's what is being advocated now with TV rights,equal pay and people like Ian Wright moaning about 7-00 pm kick offs Never seen him moan about a 12-30 kick off with Boro playing Bournemouth.
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Post by misterj on Aug 1, 2022 18:45:02 GMT
Personally I wouldn’t give a F*** if some of the men’s’ money got siphoned off into the women’s’ game ….. male players have had it too good for too long e.g. Jesse Lingard’s agent holding West Ham to ransom….. clearly got a strange perception of what a reasonable wage looks like ….. partic since Covid, Brexit, Ukraine, inflation, gas & oil prices …… when are these people going to get real - no wonder so many non-football fans (eg rugby fans) take the piss out of footballers’ inflated perceptions of themselves and the swagger/arrogance that goes with it ……. Absolute minimum should be ‘for that income - and as so called role models - you have to donate half a day per week working in a food bank, homeless shelter, school visits etc etc’
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 1, 2022 18:53:42 GMT
Playing devil's advocate Playing budget 24/25 season is split 50/50 between Stoke men average crowd 20'000 plus and Stoke women average crowd 500 ? That's what is being advocated now with TV rights,equal pay and people like Ian Wright moaning about 7-00 pm kick offs Never seen him moan about a 12-30 kick off with Boro playing Bournemouth. At club level it's never going to happen - it doesn't happen WITHIN the mens game for a start (guarantee Dwight Gale is being paid more than Jacob Brown). At international level different equation with an opportunity to have same incentives and bonuses. However although equal pay us unlikely I don't blame advocates of the women's game on the back of this success shining a light on disparaties and looking to get a better deal for the gals while they're in an ascendancy - and you've got to start somewhere. I would if I was them.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 1, 2022 19:03:39 GMT
Personally I wouldn’t give a F*** if some of the men’s’ money got siphoned off into the women’s’ game ….. male players have had it too good for too long e.g. Jesse Lingard’s agent holding West Ham to ransom….. clearly got a strange perception of what a reasonable wage looks like ….. partic since Covid, Brexit, Ukraine, inflation, gas & oil prices …… when are these people going to get real - no wonder so many non-football fans (eg rugby fans) take the piss out of footballers’ inflated perceptions of themselves and the swagger/arrogance that goes with it ……. Absolute minimum should be ‘for that income - and as so called role models - you have to donate half a day per week working in a food bank, homeless shelter, school visits etc etc’ Quite. Stoke could probably fund a WSL team for 20 years or more with what they pissed up the wall on the likes of Berehino, Imbula, Wimmer, N'Dyie abd others. Why should women be denied an opportunity just so those fuckers can steal a living?
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Post by hoffgreen on Aug 1, 2022 20:46:12 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Aug 1, 2022 20:56:45 GMT
Playing devil's advocate Playing budget 24/25 season is split 50/50 between Stoke men average crowd 20'000 plus and Stoke women average crowd 500 ? That's what is being advocated now with TV rights,equal pay and people like Ian Wright moaning about 7-00 pm kick offs Never seen him moan about a 12-30 kick off with Boro playing Bournemouth. There’s a bit of hypocrisy there from Wrighty who I do like. I wonder how he’d have felt if he was still playing. “Yep Ian we’re halving your pay so we can even up your wage with the ladies even though I know you bring in a lot more revenue.” The Lionesses did great but let not get too carried away and push things too much too quickly because of one tournament. If they get 20k+ every game of course they should be looking at the big money but not if they’re getting tier 3 crowds.
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Post by nottsover60 on Aug 1, 2022 23:03:03 GMT
Have you seen the wage comparison? A player in the top English women's league earns on average £47,000 a year. If you take out the super earners like Ronaldo and De Bruyne whose wages are excessively high then the average pay for a Premier League is about 100 times as much at £4.7 million. Harry Kane, by no means the best paid player but England captain earns in one week what Leah Williamson the women's captain earns in a year. For me that just demonstrates how money has ruined men's football.
Interestingly men and women players both receive the same match fee of £2000 for playing for England. Perhaps that explains why a lot of players aren't that bothered about playing for England. However the bonus for winning the tournament was £1.5 million shared between them. Had the men won last summer their bonus would have been £5million. You do have to bear in mind the revenue brought in by ticket prices. Tickets for Sunday's final were only £15.
I suspect the number of fans watching women's football will increase immensely this season.
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Post by skip on Aug 1, 2022 23:18:51 GMT
I take your point about it being a sports bra (and I did know it was!) but I still think if I were a woman I'd only be taking my top off in front of millions of viewers if the goal had been given. Maybe its just me but even as a bloke I'd feel a prat taking my shirt off and getting a yellow card for celebrating a goal which had been disallowed! I agree as sexist as this may sound it’s a lot more sexually provocative for a woman to show her sports bra than it is for a man to go bare chested. And tbh I’m not bothered either way I just don’t think it’s as big a deal as they are making out. There is a difference in how it’s portrayed though. Empowering for a women stupidity for a man. It's really not mate. She wasn't getting her tits out, she was celebrating the goal that was at that point likely to lead to European cup glory by whipping her shirt off and going rightly and understandably ape shit.
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Post by independent on Aug 2, 2022 2:09:13 GMT
Have you seen the wage comparison? A player in the top English women's league earns on average £47,000 a year. If you take out the super earners like Ronaldo and De Bruyne whose wages are excessively high then the average pay for a Premier League is about 100 times as much at £4.7 million. Harry Kane, by no means the best paid player but England captain earns in one week what Leah Williamson the women's captain earns in a year. For me that just demonstrates how money has ruined men's football. Interestingly men and women players both receive the same match fee of £2000 for playing for England. Perhaps that explains why a lot of players aren't that bothered about playing for England. However the bonus for winning the tournament was £1.5 million shared between them. Had the men won last summer their bonus would have been £5million. You do have to bear in mind the revenue brought in by ticket prices. Tickets for Sunday's final were only £15. I suspect the number of fans watching women's football will increase immensely this season. I hope you are right but suspect you are wrong. If the crowds don't grow substantially then it will confirm my suspicion that womens' football is going to be a big game and TV phenomenon only. There seemed to be a lot of children in the crowd and I'm not sure that their parents will accompany them to league fixtures. Perhaps the clubs could organise buses to pick them up at a central point or two and could provide a couple of people at the meeting point to look after them.
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Post by Gods on Aug 2, 2022 8:32:41 GMT
Roger Johnson (Nigel's son) hung out to dry for saying on BBC Breakfast the standard of women's football is so good you could be watching men. I'm not sure why it is so funny but it is! The thing is old Roger was trying to be generous and, lets face it, was way over playing his hand to begin with and yet at the same time he still got hand bagged! And just to make it worse, by saying how much the women's game has improved he also managed to upset the lady in the studio in suggesting by inference it was a bit rubbish in her day. Best thing to do for us fellas, just go along for the ride and don't pass any judgement, you can't win Hung out to dry
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Post by musik on Aug 2, 2022 8:38:51 GMT
Roger Johnson (Nigel's son) hung out to dry for saying on BBC Breakfast the standard of women's football is so good you could be watching men. I'm not sure why it is so funny but it is! The thing is old Roger was trying to be generous and, lets face it, was way over playing his hand to begin with and yet at the same time he still got hand bagged! And just to make it worse by saying how much the women's game has improved he also managed to upset the lady in the studio in suggesting by inference it was a bit rubbish in her day. Best thing to do for us fellas, just go along for the ride and don't pass any judgement, you can't win Hung out to dryLesson: don't compare at all, to begin with.
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Post by stroller on Aug 2, 2022 8:50:49 GMT
Roger Johnson (Nigel's son) hung out to dry for saying on BBC Breakfast the standard of women's football is so good you could be watching men. I'm not sure why it is so funny but it is! The thing is old Roger was trying to be generous and, lets face it, was way over playing his hand to begin with and yet at the same time he still got hand bagged! And just to make it worse by saying how much the women's game has improved he also managed to upset the lady in the studio in suggesting by inference it was a bit rubbish in her day. Best thing to do for us fellas, just go along for the ride and don't pass any judgement, you can't win Hung out to dryLesson: don't compare at all, to begin with. Quite right. I feel great for the ladies, but by gum there's been some tommyrot spouted on TV. Yesterday Jeremy Vine said he thought the lionesses may well have beaten the 66 world cup team. The program then went on to discuss if the Lionesses were our greatest ever football team.
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borges
Academy Starlet
Posts: 104
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Post by borges on Aug 2, 2022 8:59:33 GMT
Have you seen the wage comparison? A player in the top English women's league earns on average £47,000 a year. If you take out the super earners like Ronaldo and De Bruyne whose wages are excessively high then the average pay for a Premier League is about 100 times as much at £4.7 million. Harry Kane, by no means the best paid player but England captain earns in one week what Leah Williamson the women's captain earns in a year. For me that just demonstrates how money has ruined men's football. Interestingly men and women players both receive the same match fee of £2000 for playing for England. Perhaps that explains why a lot of players aren't that bothered about playing for England. However the bonus for winning the tournament was £1.5 million shared between them. Had the men won last summer their bonus would have been £5million. You do have to bear in mind the revenue brought in by ticket prices. Tickets for Sunday's final were only £15. I suspect the number of fans watching women's football will increase immensely this season. The England men's team donate their match fees to charity.
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Post by scfc75 on Aug 2, 2022 9:00:45 GMT
A good result but absolutely nothing to do with the mens game at all. The majority of games will go back to being largely ignored at club level. It seems to me that they want to force the womens game on us as an equal product. You can’t compare any records to the mens game Alex Scott is wrong moaning about sponsorship etc too. They attracted what they did in 2018 as that was the going rate then. Same as moaning about grounds prepared to host games. One day it might reach the same economic highs as mens football but at the moment the mens euros makes billions and has to subsidise the losses this tournament has incurred. All this empowerment bullshit about running around in a sports bra too. One of the most planned celebrations I’ve seen. She made sure she stopped, paused had a good look to see all cameras were on her then whipped it off. Let me get this straight, in a stadium absolutely full of cameras from every angle, you honestly think she paused to make sure she was in shot before wheeling away to celebrate? Fuck me 😂😂
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Post by musik on Aug 2, 2022 9:05:24 GMT
A good result but absolutely nothing to do with the mens game at all. The majority of games will go back to being largely ignored at club level. It seems to me that they want to force the womens game on us as an equal product. You can’t compare any records to the mens game Alex Scott is wrong moaning about sponsorship etc too. They attracted what they did in 2018 as that was the going rate then. Same as moaning about grounds prepared to host games. One day it might reach the same economic highs as mens football but at the moment the mens euros makes billions and has to subsidise the losses this tournament has incurred. All this empowerment bullshit about running around in a sports bra too. One of the most planned celebrations I’ve seen. She made sure she stopped, paused had a good look to see all cameras were on her then whipped it off. Let me get this straight, in a stadium absolutely full of cameras from every angle, you honestly think she paused to make sure she was in shot before wheeling away to celebrate? Fuck me 😂😂 Or she just wanted to make sure it wasn't a disallowed goal ...
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Post by nottsover60 on Aug 2, 2022 9:06:09 GMT
Have you seen the wage comparison? A player in the top English women's league earns on average £47,000 a year. If you take out the super earners like Ronaldo and De Bruyne whose wages are excessively high then the average pay for a Premier League is about 100 times as much at £4.7 million. Harry Kane, by no means the best paid player but England captain earns in one week what Leah Williamson the women's captain earns in a year. For me that just demonstrates how money has ruined men's football. Interestingly men and women players both receive the same match fee of £2000 for playing for England. Perhaps that explains why a lot of players aren't that bothered about playing for England. However the bonus for winning the tournament was £1.5 million shared between them. Had the men won last summer their bonus would have been £5million. You do have to bear in mind the revenue brought in by ticket prices. Tickets for Sunday's final were only £15. I suspect the number of fans watching women's football will increase immensely this season. The England men's team donate their match fees to charity. I would imagine £2000 for them is loose change which they wouldn't miss if it fell out of their pockets whereas for the women it's quite a big percentage of their earnings. For the 6 matches their appearance money would have been about a quarter of their annual salary so no snide digs at the women's team for keeping their appearance money please.
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Post by scfc75 on Aug 2, 2022 9:14:00 GMT
The England men's team donate their match fees to charity. I would imagine £2000 for them is loose change which they wouldn't miss if it fell out of their pockets whereas for the women it's quite a big percentage of their earnings. For the 6 matches their appearance money would have been about a quarter of their annual salary so no snide digs at the women's team for keeping their appearance money please. I would imagine some, if not all of them will now get some great endorsement opportunities that will potentially eclipse their salaries.
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Post by nottsover60 on Aug 2, 2022 9:15:47 GMT
Have you seen the wage comparison? A player in the top English women's league earns on average £47,000 a year. If you take out the super earners like Ronaldo and De Bruyne whose wages are excessively high then the average pay for a Premier League is about 100 times as much at £4.7 million. Harry Kane, by no means the best paid player but England captain earns in one week what Leah Williamson the women's captain earns in a year. For me that just demonstrates how money has ruined men's football. Interestingly men and women players both receive the same match fee of £2000 for playing for England. Perhaps that explains why a lot of players aren't that bothered about playing for England. However the bonus for winning the tournament was £1.5 million shared between them. Had the men won last summer their bonus would have been £5million. You do have to bear in mind the revenue brought in by ticket prices. Tickets for Sunday's final were only £15. I suspect the number of fans watching women's football will increase immensely this season. I hope you are right but suspect you are wrong. If the crowds don't grow substantially then it will confirm my suspicion that womens' football is going to be a big game and TV phenomenon only. There seemed to be a lot of children in the crowd and I'm not sure that their parents will accompany them to league fixtures. Perhaps the clubs could organise buses to pick them up at a central point or two and could provide a couple of people at the meeting point to look after them. It will be interesting to see. The ticket prices certainly make it more attractive - the match at Stoke in September will be £15 adults, £5 for concessions and £2.50 for u16s. That means a family of 4 can attend for £35 with grandparents joining for £5 each. A good option to a night match at Stoke and I suspect it will have more entertainment in addition to the football than your regular match at Stoke. It will be interesting to see how many attend the first home match since the Euros. Just a pity it's a night match at the start of the school term.
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borges
Academy Starlet
Posts: 104
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Post by borges on Aug 2, 2022 9:33:10 GMT
The England men's team donate their match fees to charity. I would imagine £2000 for them is loose change which they wouldn't miss if it fell out of their pockets whereas for the women it's quite a big percentage of their earnings. For the 6 matches their appearance money would have been about a quarter of their annual salary so no snide digs at the women's team for keeping their appearance money please. Not a dig, just pointing out you can't use match fees as a way of comparing the motivations of the teams. As for the men not being bothered about playing for England, I don't think that's ever been the case.
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Post by werrington on Aug 2, 2022 9:55:56 GMT
The England men's team donate their match fees to charity. I would imagine £2000 for them is loose change which they wouldn't miss if it fell out of their pockets whereas for the women it's quite a big percentage of their earnings. For the 6 matches their appearance money would have been about a quarter of their annual salary so no snide digs at the women's team for keeping their appearance money please. Jeez they ( the men ) can’t do right for doing wrong can they? If they kept it to themselves you’d be moaning and then have a dig when they do give it away £2k, £2 or £200k makes no difference does it as it’s THEIR money and they can go what they want with it The fact they give it away still gets snide comments…..do you see being snide works both ways if that’s how you want it It’s becoming boring now
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Post by werrington on Aug 2, 2022 9:58:48 GMT
I wonder how many of those jumping on this bandwagon will be getting themselves up to community drive next season to cheer our women on
I’ll hazard a guess at 5% and that’s being hugely generous
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Post by Gods on Aug 2, 2022 10:11:20 GMT
I wonder how many of those jumping on this bandwagon will be getting themselves up to community drive next season to cheer our women on I’ll hazard a guess at 5% That is the million dollar question. If not it could be like the Olympics where the nation gets behind the national team at major championship time only.
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