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Post by ted1965 on May 16, 2022 8:46:56 GMT
The season was a complete damp squib and now the recruitment efforts begin to prepare for next campaign of hope over expectation,.
The questions that need answering for me is who are we, what is the real identity of this football club in 2022. At the moment we seem to be just another former Premier League club fallen on harder times, yes it’s the identity for many of our seasons but if we are serious about actually regaining our former status that has to change.
For many years under Pulis we were the red headed step child at the royal garden party not many liked us but they begrudgingly accepted we had earned the right to be there. That identity began to sour not only on the Premier league but the club owners who while they were grateful for the identity and the stability it afforded us wanted to be loved a little more and appointed Mark Hughes and in a matter of a few years we were more like the story of the Ugly Duckling that had transformed into the beautiful Swan. Sadly Hughes lost his way or bottle and couldn’t make up his mind on just what our identity was supposed to be and we meekly surrendered our hard won place at the banquet of rich vulgarity.
Of course while we were living in hope of regaining our place the media and club identified us as the richest club in the Championship with an underlying toxicity that eroded our chances from within.
Ever since that failure to even challenge for the play offs we have no identity unless you count chaos and inconsistency as a real identity, the club lurches from one average season to the next, from one under-performing squad to the next and the club loses its identity of recently being a Premier League club and slides back into the mundane mid-table Championship side we were in the early 2000’s.
MON is most likely going to be conducting the recruitment over the summer much to the anguish of many supporters but they have to accept reality but I understand they would rather see someone else in charge of the next campaign but the board disagree and therefore he is going to be manager of this football club come August barring some very unusual circumstances.
So what identity should we be garnering under MON, He needs to admit that we need some new ideas because the last few seasons have been totally mediocre and he has to share the blame for that. We have had some tough breaks with injuries to key players but that could be the same story of many clubs up and down the country. The managerial team plus the players have to look at themselves and admit they bottled so many games where good game management all round would have seen them collect enough points to at least make the play offs.
We need leaders on the pitch Jags is certainly one player who can lead but his age also means he could fall of the cliff very quickly he is just the type of player we need but we need more of them and younger models.
We need more pace and power in the squad players who can do the dirty work that allows your better players to create and have confidence in not making a mistake that is likely to cost the team dearly. If you know the door is reasonably secure it allows you to be more adventurous and less safety first.
We need to move the ball faster through the field so many times we have been in decent positions and then just slowed everything down because either we didn’t have enough players moving into space or just lack the pace to get beyond the ball carrier. The most effective football is when you can turn the opposition defence so they are unable to organize that happened so infrequently because we lack pace. If you don’t fear speed of foot or speed of thought it makes playing against us so much easier.
I hope we will get some kind of identity one which we can understand as supporters because at the moment we are just another club who once played in the Premier League and that can fester into years and even decades of nothing very fast. I was stunned to realise that neither Nottingham Forest nor Sheffield Wednesday had played top flight football centaury and we are nearly a quarter the way through it, yes Forest may end that absence this year but I don’t want to wait another 2 decades to see Stoke challenge the mighty again.
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Post by jokker on May 16, 2022 8:53:15 GMT
It is make or break for O'Neill and for Stoke. Make and it could serve as the platform for better things, break and he's out of a job and the club will be worse than mediocre. The latter is not a welcome identity but it looks realistic.
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Post by stokie1947 on May 16, 2022 9:03:23 GMT
agree with that
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 16, 2022 10:51:42 GMT
Our identity is we're a football club who take part in football matches in the championship. I'm not too sure what identity most folk want beyond that. There are those who long to be loathed again because they enjoy pissing people off far more than they enjoy football. If there was an identity on offer whereby we score lots of goals and win lots of games I'd think most would be happy with that whatever tags anyone else cared to apply to us. I'd be very surprised if MON delivered that. I'd like us to be exciting and successful but I'd quite happily settle for either, though as I often say on here if you provide the excitement/entertainment and don't achieve the success at least you will have been able to enjoy the ride. Whereas trying to bore your way to success just leaves you feeling very empty if you don't achieve your goal. For some reason as a club I think the latter is our favoured demeanor. To me it's a bit like trying to light a fire by rubbing two sticks together whilst everyone else just uses a lighter, yes it can work but the likelihood is low compared to the conventional method.
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Post by lordb on May 16, 2022 11:05:59 GMT
Playing faster football in home matches please
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Post by pushon on May 16, 2022 11:09:48 GMT
Our identity is we're a football club who take part in football matches in the championship. I'm not too sure what identity most folk want beyond that. There are those who long to be loathed again because they enjoy pissing people off far more than they enjoy football. If there was an identity on offer whereby we score lots of goals and win lots of games I'd think most would be happy with that whatever tags anyone else cared to apply to us. I'd be very surprised if MON delivered that. I'd like us to be exciting and successful but I'd quite happily settle for either, though as I often say on here if you provide the excitement/entertainment and don't achieve the success at least you will have been able to enjoy the ride. Whereas trying to bore your way to success just leaves you feeling very empty if you don't achieve your goal. For some reason as a club I think the latter is our favoured demeanor. To me it's a bit like trying to light a fire by rubbing two sticks together whilst everyone else just uses a lighter, yes it can work but the likelihood is low compared to the conventional method. "Nail on head" and similar metaphors.
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Post by bunnyscfc on May 16, 2022 11:10:22 GMT
Great post, Ted.
Equally, indeed possibly more, important for me is.....what is our identity off the pitch, not on it?
Just what is the vision, the plan, for our club? Since the season finished. We've not heard a word from our manager or owner. Not one. Indeed, I can hardly ever remembering Jon Coates speak.
Take yesterday.....MON should have been at our Under 23 game - not at Hibs. I don't care if he lives in Edinburgh and the season is over and Rory Delap was at the game, the manager should be at our Under 23 Play Off game. It sets the tone for me and it sends a negative message to those trying to get in the first team. As a club we went from sleepwalking towards relegation to trying to buy the division, and we are currently back to sleepwalking. Our 4 years in this league have seen us closer to the bottom than top, and I see no plan to say next year etc will be anything different.
We are treading water as a football club. You soon run out of lifeboats.......
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Post by hyaduck on May 16, 2022 11:20:25 GMT
Playing faster football in home matches please And a new manager, preferably a foreign one, you know the ones who play Fast possession football!!!
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Post by gingerninja on May 16, 2022 11:34:56 GMT
I agree that MON should have been at the game yesterday. I appreciate he lives away and is recuperating, but it makes a statement to the younger players. As someone else said, we may have restructured, but we still appear to be drifting along..
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Post by lordb on May 16, 2022 11:44:25 GMT
Playing faster football in home matches please And a new manager, preferably a foreign one, you know the ones who play Fast possession football!!! ? What about the ones that don't?
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Post by hyaduck on May 16, 2022 11:45:12 GMT
And a new manager, preferably a foreign one, you know the ones who play Fast possession football!!! ? What about the ones that don't? Like O’Neill?
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Post by lordb on May 16, 2022 11:48:28 GMT
? What about the ones that don't? Like O’Neill? what are you on about? have stated multiple times want O'Neill out don't understand why you appear to think all foreign managers play fast football, that's just weird there are plenty of bad foreign managers there are good foreign managers who don't play fast football too
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Post by skip on May 16, 2022 11:49:03 GMT
Great post, Ted. Equally, indeed possibly more, important for me is.....what is our identity off the pitch, not on it? Just what is the vision, the plan, for our club? Since the season finished. We've not heard a word from our manager or owner. Not one. Indeed, I can hardly ever remembering Jon Coates speak. Take yesterday.....MON should have been at our Under 23 game - not at Hibs. I don't care if he lives in Edinburgh and the season is over and Rory Delap was at the game, the manager should be at our Under 23 Play Off game. It sets the tone for me and it sends a negative message to those trying to get in the first team. As a club we went from sleepwalking towards relegation to trying to buy the division, and we are currently back to sleepwalking. Our 4 years in this league have seen us closer to the bottom than top, and I see no plan to say next year etc will be anything different. We are treading water as a football club. You soon run out of lifeboats....... Agree wholeheartedly Bunny about where the club sees and presents itself. Seasons just kind of end, and then there is a dangerous (and arrogant?) presumption that the same thousands will turn up next season regardless. The only thing I would question are presumptions made about MoN not being at the U23. He may well have sent his best wishes to the players, telling them he needs to recuperate or whatnot. I would however expect some kind of interview or Q&A with MoN and Coates Jr. Failing that, some kind of fan facing statement regarding ground improvements, plans, hopes and ambitions, steering clear of fuzzy clichés and promises they can't keep. Just good clear communication and a sense of progress and change. Will the same bloody awful food and drink continue into next season? Will there be a fan zone? And most importantly, a heartfelt statement that the aim is promotion.
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Post by hyaduck on May 16, 2022 11:50:37 GMT
what are you on about? have stated multiple times want O'Neill out don't understand why you appear to think all foreign managers play fast football, that's just weird there are plenty of bad foreign managers there are good foreign managers who don't play fast football too A lot of em do, O’Neill is like a record on 33, couldn’t get slower if you tried. If that’s what you’re after you’re welcome to it!!!!
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Post by lordb on May 16, 2022 11:56:15 GMT
what are you on about? have stated multiple times want O'Neill out don't understand why you appear to think all foreign managers play fast football, that's just weird there are plenty of bad foreign managers there are good foreign managers who don't play fast football too A lot of em do, O’Neill is like a record on 33, couldn’t get slower if you tried. If that’s what you’re after you’re welcome to it!!!! so we could appoint a good manager who plays fast football who isn't foreign & you'd be against it? that makes no sense at all
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Post by Gods on May 16, 2022 11:58:03 GMT
'Who are we?' This is getting deep, we may need Aristotle or Descartes to help out here :-)
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Post by skip on May 16, 2022 12:02:25 GMT
'Who are we?' this is getting deep, we may need Aritotle to help here :-) Plato's Cave. Lawrence's Seven Pillars of Wisdom.* The Oatcake. *TE, not Liam.
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Post by march4 on May 16, 2022 12:08:15 GMT
No identity = no leadership.
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Post by doctortheopolis on May 16, 2022 12:19:17 GMT
Great post, Ted. Equally, indeed possibly more, important for me is.....what is our identity off the pitch, not on it? Just what is the vision, the plan, for our club? Since the season finished. We've not heard a word from our manager or owner. Not one. Indeed, I can hardly ever remembering Jon Coates speak. Take yesterday.....MON should have been at our Under 23 game - not at Hibs. I don't care if he lives in Edinburgh and the season is over and Rory Delap was at the game, the manager should be at our Under 23 Play Off game. It sets the tone for me and it sends a negative message to those trying to get in the first team. As a club we went from sleepwalking towards relegation to trying to buy the division, and we are currently back to sleepwalking. Our 4 years in this league have seen us closer to the bottom than top, and I see no plan to say next year etc will be anything different. We are treading water as a football club. You soon run out of lifeboats....... This is absolutely bob on, as are the questions the OP is asking. It feels a little bit like a rudderless ship drifting along at the moment. I don't want the board to be making daily statements but their silence is deafening. The only information that Jon Coates has shared in the last few months has been about the "sale" of the ground to get us out of the financial shit. What is our plan, our vision? If they had come out and said that we had no money to spend and were going to go down the youth route for the next couple of years, at least this is a plan that we know about and can get behind. Every pre season there seems to be a need to restructure but this coming summer is the biggest of all with so many players leaving, yet there has not been anything in the way of how we plan to do this, or even an analysis of this last season. There aren't any football clubs that are successful on the green stuff if they don't have a strategic plan or vision off it to start off with.
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Post by theonlooker on May 16, 2022 12:34:12 GMT
We're a lower half Championship club that is going nowhere under the current ownership.
It's as simple and as complex as that.
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Post by knype on May 16, 2022 12:37:17 GMT
We're a lower half Championship club that is going nowhere under the current ownership. It's as simple and as complex as that. Do you think we would be in a better position with a change of ownership?
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Post by kidcrewbob on May 16, 2022 12:42:36 GMT
Well according to a huge hoarding next to the A500 at Shelton Stoke City & it's supporters are "family" - unfortunately this is not the case as healthy functioning families talk to each other, are respectful of each others needs and opinions and would do anything to help one another come what may. Whilst most supporters are fulfilling their side of the bargain the Club owners and management are mainly dismissive, disrespectful and disingenuous.
We have heard nothing substantive as to the plan, strategy, hopes, ambitions and aspirations of the club or indeed offered any sort of insight as to how we intend to proceed nor any comments re the managerial position - either supportive, firm endorsement of MoN or even a lukewarm "confidence" statement - nothing, bugger all, nowt......and they MUST be aware of the unrest in a significant proportion of the support base - or should I call them "key stakeholders" - the club has regressed massively in last 5 years and now seems to have reverted to type ie a 70s 80s beer & sandwiches in a smoke filled room approach and we are at serious risk of stagnating further where the annual excitement may ammount to avoiding relegation.
They need to get a decent CEO in ASAP (and a manager in my view) and try and drag us into the 21st century proper.......indeed, "they" are family and not "we" at the moment......
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 16, 2022 12:42:48 GMT
We're a lower half Championship club that is going nowhere under the current ownership. It's as simple and as complex as that. Do you think we would be in a better position with a change of ownership? It depends entirely on who those owners were doesn't it? We could be much worse off if we were bought by, say, an American group who planned to load us up to the tits with debt, or someone like the assorted cowboys who've owned Birmingham over the years. We could be better off if we were bought by someone with a modicum of vision and imagination, which the current owners are sorely lacking in.
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Post by theonlooker on May 16, 2022 12:43:23 GMT
We're a lower half Championship club that is going nowhere under the current ownership. It's as simple and as complex as that. Do you think we would be in a better position with a change of ownership? Yes I do. Unequivocally.
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Post by skip on May 16, 2022 12:49:41 GMT
Well according to a huge hoarding next to the A500 at Shelton Stoke City & it's supporters are "family" - unfortunately this is not the case as healthy functioning families talk to each other, are respectful of each others needs and opinions and would do anything to help one another come what may. Whilst most supporters are fulfilling their side of the bargain the Club owners and management are mainly dismissive, disrespectful and disingenuous. We have heard nothing substantive as to the plan, strategy, hopes, ambitions and aspirations of the club or indeed offered any sort of insight as to how we intend to proceed nor any comments re the managerial position - either supportive, firm endorsement of MoN or even a lukewarm "confidence" statement - nothing, bugger all, nowt......and they MUST be aware of the unrest in a significant proportion of the support base - or should I call them "key stakeholders" - the club has regressed massively in last 5 years and now seems to have reverted to type ie a 70s 80s beer & sandwiches in a smoke filled room approach and we are at serious risk of stagnating further where the annual excitement may ammount to avoiding relegation. They need to get a decent CEO in ASAP (and a manager in my view) and try and drag us into the 21st century proper.......indeed, "they" are family and not "we" at the moment...... Regrettably absolutely on the nose with the functioning families analogy. Things do seem a little 'speak when spoken to' right now don't they.
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Post by jokker on May 16, 2022 12:58:07 GMT
Our identity is we're a football club who take part in football matches in the championship. I'm not too sure what identity most folk want beyond that. There are those who long to be loathed again because they enjoy pissing people off far more than they enjoy football. If there was an identity on offer whereby we score lots of goals and win lots of games I'd think most would be happy with that whatever tags anyone else cared to apply to us. I'd be very surprised if MON delivered that. I'd like us to be exciting and successful but I'd quite happily settle for either, though as I often say on here if you provide the excitement/entertainment and don't achieve the success at least you will have been able to enjoy the ride. Whereas trying to bore your way to success just leaves you feeling very empty if you don't achieve your goal. For some reason as a club I think the latter is our favoured demeanor. To me it's a bit like trying to light a fire by rubbing two sticks together whilst everyone else just uses a lighter, yes it can work but the likelihood is low compared to the conventional method. That hardly sets us apart from the other 23 Championship clubs, does it? If all 24 clubs play with the exact same set of ideas there'll be a lot of draws next season. We don't want to be like Luton, but they went through the season as perpetual underdogs and it served them very well. What exactly was our mission ? Beyond targeting a top 10 place and clearing off the deadwood, I'm not sure. We weren't building a team for next season, because the manager kept playing players whose contracts and loans were running out down to the last game of the season. So preseason apart it will all be ground zero next season. Plus clearing off the new deadwood that O'Neill has been bringing in with his allegedly top level recruitment. It doesn't exactly excite me looking forward to next season.
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Post by kidcrewbob on May 16, 2022 12:59:59 GMT
Well according to a huge hoarding next to the A500 at Shelton Stoke City & it's supporters are "family" - unfortunately this is not the case as healthy functioning families talk to each other, are respectful of each others needs and opinions and would do anything to help one another come what may. Whilst most supporters are fulfilling their side of the bargain the Club owners and management are mainly dismissive, disrespectful and disingenuous. We have heard nothing substantive as to the plan, strategy, hopes, ambitions and aspirations of the club or indeed offered any sort of insight as to how we intend to proceed nor any comments re the managerial position - either supportive, firm endorsement of MoN or even a lukewarm "confidence" statement - nothing, bugger all, nowt......and they MUST be aware of the unrest in a significant proportion of the support base - or should I call them "key stakeholders" - the club has regressed massively in last 5 years and now seems to have reverted to type ie a 70s 80s beer & sandwiches in a smoke filled room approach and we are at serious risk of stagnating further where the annual excitement may ammount to avoiding relegation. They need to get a decent CEO in ASAP (and a manager in my view) and try and drag us into the 21st century proper.......indeed, "they" are family and not "we" at the moment...... Regrettably absolutely on the nose with the functioning families analogy. Things do seem a little 'speak when spoken to' right now don't they. They do Skip, they give us the mushroom treatment and then patronise us with the odd sycophantic line now and again - just not good enough........worst thing is we had the prospect of long term Premier league permanancy within our grasp but a series of appalling decisons saw it all turn to dust......
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Post by jokker on May 16, 2022 13:06:19 GMT
We're a lower half Championship club that is going nowhere under the current ownership. It's as simple and as complex as that. Do you think we would be in a better position with a change of ownership? I'm sure there's a fair few who will singing and dancing in the street on the day that might happen. Then a few years later, when Season tickets have skyrocketed, away travel has been paid by travelers themselves, the football has become far worse, the new owners have stopped investing in new players because they're out of money, and SCFC are playing in the national leagues, there will be many longing for the Coates to return.
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Post by hyaduck on May 16, 2022 13:07:53 GMT
A lot of em do, O’Neill is like a record on 33, couldn’t get slower if you tried. If that’s what you’re after you’re welcome to it!!!! so we could appoint a good manager who plays fast football who isn't foreign & you'd be against it? that makes no sense at all Not at all, I’m just saying there is a lot of prehistoric British managers (O’Neill) who’re stuck in the dark ages. Get the ball moving and keep it moving, learn to play with no more than three touches….If you haven’t got the tools you can’t perform your craft. Get my drift!!!!
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Post by crouchpotato1 on May 16, 2022 13:14:15 GMT
We’re Stoke City and we’re competing in a very tough league and hopefully next season we’ll be challenging to get in the play offs
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