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Post by lordb on May 11, 2022 7:21:51 GMT
With O’Neil in charge he addressed the bigger problem to avoid the Sunderland scenario. If he’s here next season relegation is a big possibility It's no more likely than promotion, we are very mid table
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Post by PotterLog on May 11, 2022 11:09:54 GMT
Aren't we the only team relegated from the Prem that hasn't managed at least one top six finish since we've been down? Someone should tell those other teams they're supposed to aim for stability like us. Perhaps you would be better off supporting Portsmouth or Sunderland? So we should all be satisfied with aiming for the level just above the very worst basket case relegation disaster stories then, anything else is just hysterical and negative. Cheers but I think we’re entitled to expect a little better.
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Post by leicspotter on May 11, 2022 12:59:36 GMT
Perhaps you would be better off supporting Portsmouth or Sunderland? So we should all be satisfied with aiming for the level just above the very worst basket case relegation disaster stories then, anything else is just hysterical and negative. Cheers but I think we’re entitled to expect a little better. I don't think any team is 'entitled' to anything. It has to be earned. That doesn't mean that we, as fans, cannot hope nay expect, something better than we have seen recently, it doesn't entitle us to anything though One of our recent problems has been too many 'entitled' players, hopefully they have now been cleared out and we might hope to see some fight in the future...just look at Luton for an example of a side that fights and achieves more than might be expected...no entitlement there
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Post by femark on May 11, 2022 13:06:10 GMT
With O’Neil in charge he addressed the bigger problem to avoid the Sunderland scenario. If he’s here next season relegation is a big possibility Considering we've been nowhere near relegation this season, I can't work out how you draw that conclusion?
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Post by PotterLog on May 11, 2022 13:24:16 GMT
So we should all be satisfied with aiming for the level just above the very worst basket case relegation disaster stories then, anything else is just hysterical and negative. Cheers but I think we’re entitled to expect a little better. I don't think any team is 'entitled' to anything. It has to be earned. That doesn't mean that we, as fans, cannot hope nay expect, something better than we have seen recently, it doesn't entitle us to anything though One of our recent problems has been too many 'entitled' players, hopefully they have now been cleared out and we might hope to see some fight in the future...just look at Luton for an example of a side that fights and achieves more than might be expected...no entitlement there Maybe not the best word choice but note that I said entitled *to expect* better. As in it's not unreasonable to expect us to be challenging for the playoffs (for example) given our circumstances, resources, recent history etc. I didn't mean we're automatically entitled to anything as a club or as fans.
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Post by stokeoptimist on May 11, 2022 22:30:34 GMT
Conversely, the wrist-slitting negative ninnies cannot acknowledge that progress is preceded by stability. Aren't we the only team relegated from the Prem that hasn't managed at least one top six finish since we've been down? Someone should tell those other teams they're supposed to aim for stability like us. You are forgetting Sunderland got relegated in successive seasons straight into League 1, something that would have happened to us if it wasn't for O'Neil!
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Post by stokeoptimist on May 11, 2022 22:35:56 GMT
Perhaps you would be better off supporting Portsmouth or Sunderland? So we should all be satisfied with aiming for the level just above the very worst basket case relegation disaster stories then, anything else is just hysterical and negative. Cheers but I think we’re entitled to expect a little better. "Entitled" believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. "kids who feel so entitled and think the world will revolve around them" That about sums it up doesn't it
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Post by march4 on May 11, 2022 22:36:03 GMT
Aren't we the only team relegated from the Prem that hasn't managed at least one top six finish since we've been down? Someone should tell those other teams they're supposed to aim for stability like us. You are forgetting Sunderland got relegated in successive seasons straight into League 1, something that would have happened to us if it wasn't for O'Neil! Ancient history. If he is still here at the start of next season we will be lucky to stay up.
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Post by stokeoptimist on May 11, 2022 22:38:13 GMT
You are forgetting Sunderland got relegated in successive seasons straight into League 1, something that would have happened to us if it wasn't for O'Neil! Ancient history. If he is still here at the start of next season we will be lucky to stay up. Based on what evidence?
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Post by PotterLog on May 11, 2022 22:41:02 GMT
So we should all be satisfied with aiming for the level just above the very worst basket case relegation disaster stories then, anything else is just hysterical and negative. Cheers but I think we’re entitled to expect a little better. "Entitled" believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment. "kids who feel so entitled and think the world will revolve around them" That about sums it up doesn't it You’re jumping in without reading the whole thread aren’t you. Which you could also say “sums it up”
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Post by PotterLog on May 11, 2022 22:43:44 GMT
Aren't we the only team relegated from the Prem that hasn't managed at least one top six finish since we've been down? Someone should tell those other teams they're supposed to aim for stability like us. You are forgetting Sunderland got relegated in successive seasons straight into League 1, something that would have happened to us if it wasn't for O'Neil! And I shall always be grateful to him for it. Does the credit for that half-season dry up at any point or is it just a limitless line that keeps him in a job indefinitely?
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Post by stokeoptimist on May 11, 2022 22:58:44 GMT
You are forgetting Sunderland got relegated in successive seasons straight into League 1, something that would have happened to us if it wasn't for O'Neil! And I shall always be grateful to him for it. Does the credit for that half-season dry up at any point or is it just a limitless line that keeps him in a job indefinitely? So are you saying that you expect to go from almost certain relegation to promotion within a couple of years, at a time when the manager cannot spend any money and we have had key players sidelined for both of those years? Its highly unlikely don't you think?
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 11, 2022 23:00:39 GMT
And I shall always be grateful to him for it. Does the credit for that half-season dry up at any point or is it just a limitless line that keeps him in a job indefinitely? So are you saying that you expect to go from almost certain relegation to promotion within a couple of years, at a time when the manager cannot spend any money and we have had key players sidelined for both of those years? Its highly unlikely don't you think? Relegation was entirely because of the manager, our worst manager ever. The squad was never a relegation squad.
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Post by PotterLog on May 11, 2022 23:05:50 GMT
And I shall always be grateful to him for it. Does the credit for that half-season dry up at any point or is it just a limitless line that keeps him in a job indefinitely? So are you saying that you expect to go from almost certain relegation to promotion within a couple of years, at a time when the manager cannot spend any money and we have had key players sidelined for both of those years? Its highly unlikely don't you think? A couple of years? MON himself had us performing at approximate playoff level pretty much instantly, and for a prolonged period - and that’s with a squad of “relegation certainties”. We’ve since gone backwards.
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Post by dirtclod on May 11, 2022 23:13:59 GMT
If I couldn't see the rest of the table, that GD would have me presuming that we finished somewhere closer to 11th. Right behind WBA with +7.
What was it? 14 games where we lost by 1 goal? That puts a dent in it.
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Post by independent on May 11, 2022 23:22:09 GMT
I'm not sure that we have gone backward. We certainly have not made the progress everyone would have hoped for, and some expected. Financially the club has been stabilised but we still don't appear to have any money to invest in the team.The big money players that we have got rid of were better players than the replacements that we could afford.Lots of people believe that we have one of the best squads in the division. Wait and see where all the players we release finally end up. I hate to say it but the next few years look challenging no matter who is in the managers seat. We really need a change of luck.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 11, 2022 23:25:16 GMT
I'm not sure that we have gone backward. We certainly have not made the progress everyone would have hoped for, and some expected. Financially the club has been stabilised but we still don't appear to have any money to invest in the team.The big money players that we have got rid of were better players than the replacements that we could afford.Lots of people believe that we have one of the best squads in the division. Wait and see where all the players we release finally end up. I hate to say it but the next few years look challenging no matter who is in the managers seat. We really need a change of luck. Who have we got rid of that is better than the nucleus of what we’ve kept bar Collins? There’s not one other player we’ve got rid Id want back. But he made a better team from them than he has done with a much better group now.
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Post by independent on May 11, 2022 23:34:20 GMT
There is no point in discussing the matter with you. You have this strange belief that all the players that you excoriate, including Brown suddenly become promotion candidates if only we weren't stuck with a useless manager. You yourself have said that our team should never have been relegated from the Premier League. It was pure mismanagement. Can you name the players in our present team that you think could survive in the Premiership?
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 11, 2022 23:36:05 GMT
There is no point in discussing the matter with you. You have this strange belief that all the players that you excoriate, including Brown suddenly become promotion candidates if only we weren't stuck with a useless manager. Name the players. It’s not a hard ask if you actually believe it.
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Post by independent on May 11, 2022 23:38:35 GMT
There is no point in discussing the matter with you. You have this strange belief that all the players that you excoriate, including Brown suddenly become promotion candidates if only we weren't stuck with a useless manager. You yourself have said that our team should never have been relegated from the Premier League. It was pure mismanagement. Can you name the players in our present team that you think could survive in the Premiership?
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Post by independent on May 11, 2022 23:41:37 GMT
There is no point in discussing the matter with you. You have this strange belief that all the players that you excoriate, including Brown suddenly become promotion candidates if only we weren't stuck with a useless manager. Name the players. It’s not a hard ask if you actually believe it. Tymon, Thompson, Brown.Smith.Allen.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 11, 2022 23:42:02 GMT
There is no point in discussing the matter with you. You have this strange belief that all the players that you excoriate, including Brown suddenly become promotion candidates if only we weren't stuck with a useless manager. You yourself have said that our team should never have been relegated from the Premier League. It was pure mismanagement. Can you name the players in our present team that you think could survive in the Premiership? So you don’t have an answer then. Glad we got there. I don’t think many could but they don’t need to, to get promoted. 2 worse teams than ours will get promotion this season.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 11, 2022 23:43:15 GMT
Name the players. It’s not a hard ask if you actually believe it. Tymon, Thompson, Brown.Smith.Allen. You haven’t answered my question. What players have we let go that are better than them in their position?
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Post by PotterLog on May 11, 2022 23:49:35 GMT
As usual the thing that’s never acknowledged here is how completely dog shit this division is, and how relatively piss easy it is to get to playoff level. Teams like fkin Blackpool and Luton do it, routinely. You just have to be slightly better and more consistent than mediocre. It really should be a minimum requirement at any time for us in this division. That’s the baseline. We’re so woefully underperforming.
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Post by independent on May 11, 2022 23:53:03 GMT
You never asked that question because I hadn't named them. And you haven't explained how 5 out of 10 outfield players who you constantly criticise and say aren't good enough form one of the top three teams in the league. There is no point in discussing such obvious rubbish. Goodnight.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 11, 2022 23:55:02 GMT
As usual the thing that’s never acknowledged here is how completely dog shit this division is, and how relatively piss easy it is to get to playoff level. Teams like fkin Blackpool and Luton do it, routinely. You just have to be slightly better and more consistent than mediocre. It really should be a minimum requirement at any time for us in this division. That’s the baseline. We’re so woefully underperforming. Yup it’s an abhorrent league. It always amazes me how seriously people take the spell under Jones. It was an anomaly, an aberration. It’s not the default like far too many seem to treat it. Some of the replies above like about how this squad would do in the PL are enlightening too. Not sure of the relevance of that at all. It’s like the raft of people dismissing Farke for manager because he’s done poorly in the PL like we’ve found getting promoted a piece of piss before. 😂
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 11, 2022 23:57:02 GMT
You never asked that question because I hadn't named them. And you haven't explained how 5 out of 10 outfield players who you constantly criticise and say aren't good enough form one of the top three teams in the league. There is no point in discussing such obvious rubbish. Goodnight. What? I asked what players have we got rid of that are better than the current ones. You then named current players with no context to that. I think we have the second best team in the league.
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Post by dirtclod on May 12, 2022 0:01:02 GMT
I winged on and on last year at the end of season, specifically about "just wanting a positive GD for a change." Just thought it'd be an indication that we'd learned how to score & defend for the first time in ... 5 years.
Well that wish came true. But the other stats can really dish out an arse-kicking.
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Post by cvillestokie on May 12, 2022 1:54:50 GMT
So are you saying that you expect to go from almost certain relegation to promotion within a couple of years, at a time when the manager cannot spend any money and we have had key players sidelined for both of those years? Its highly unlikely don't you think? Relegation was entirely because of the manager, our worst manager ever. The squad was never a relegation squad. Question. If Jones had have carried on and we had got relegated (which was so much more likely than not) would it not have been a relegation squad?
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Post by PotterLog on May 12, 2022 2:39:33 GMT
Relegation was entirely because of the manager, our worst manager ever. The squad was never a relegation squad. Question. If Jones had have carried on and we had got relegated (which was so much more likely than not) would it not have been a relegation squad? Yes it would have been. But given that the same squad performed at playoff level under MON, it could also be described as a playoff squad, no? So we had a better squad then than we have now, right?
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