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Post by GoBoks on Feb 24, 2022 17:18:15 GMT
Trying desperately to wrap my head around the inconsistent performances that we've seen. That table showing that four of the worst XG scores in our games have come this season. And yet we've seen some performances that do not jive with a team producing such terrible performances. Probably after at least 6 different games this season we've heard on here "that was the worst performance I can remember from a Stoke team". Conversely, we do have a better team than 24 months ago. We are in a better position in the league than we have been in the past 4 seasons (at the same stage). We have produced some performances that have had even the most difficult to please fans saying things like "We should be doing at least that every week". So what gives? Could it be that the fans' goals/expectations and the owner's goals/expectations are not the same? Could it be they don't want to be promoted (for whatever reason) this season? Could it be that it is easier to perform inconsistently over many months rather than suddenly implode spectacularly in one or two key games? I'm not saying this is the case. I'm just struggling to reconcile the obvious inconsistencies that have been highlighted this season. If we see a sudden late surge up the table to just miss out, I'll be starting to be suspicious.  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2022 18:18:00 GMT
Trying desperately to wrap my head around the inconsistent performances that we've seen. That table showing that four of the worst XG scores in our games have come this season. And yet we've seen some performances that do not jive with a team producing such terrible performances. Probably after at least 6 different games this season we've heard on here "that was the worst performance I can remember from a Stoke team". Conversely, we do have a better team than 24 months ago. We are in a better position in the league than we have been in the past 4 seasons (at the same stage). We have produced some performances that have had even the most difficult to please fans saying things like "We should be doing at least that every week". So what gives? Could it be that the fans' goals/expectations and the owner's goals/expectations are not the same? Could it be they don't want to be promoted (for whatever reason) this season? Could it be that it is easier to perform inconsistently over many months rather than suddenly implode spectacularly in one or two key games? I'm not saying this is the case. I'm just struggling to reconcile the obvious inconsistencies that have been highlighted this season. If we see a sudden late surge up the table to just miss out, I'll be starting to be suspicious. We could still play reasonably well and manage to lose which would be more palatable than last night's capitulation. I do love a good conspiracy theory mind 😀😀😀 |
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Post by yyy on Feb 24, 2022 18:50:27 GMT
None of the above, we have a top 6 squad and a mid-table manager that made a name for himself as an underdog.
I think it's pretty unanimous O'Neill isn't the man to take us any further forward so why is he still here at 7p.m tonight?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2022 18:58:56 GMT
None of the above, we have a top 6 squad and a mid-table manager that made a name for himself as an underdog. I think it's pretty unanimous O'Neill isn't the man to take us any forward so why is he still here at 7p.m tonight? A top six squad without a single decent fullback, give over. We have some very good players but the squad is still very unbalanced. |
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Post by wuzza on Feb 24, 2022 19:02:44 GMT
None of the above, we have a top 6 squad and a mid-table manager that made a name for himself as an underdog. I think it's pretty unanimous O'Neill isn't the man to take us any further forward so why is he still here at 7p.m tonight? Blimey that’s unanimous now is it ??? |
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Post by yyy on Feb 24, 2022 19:04:42 GMT
None of the above, we have a top 6 squad and a mid-table manager that made a name for himself as an underdog. I think it's pretty unanimous O'Neill isn't the man to take us any forward so why is he still here at 7p.m tonight? A top six squad without a single decent fullback, give over. We have some very good players but the squad is still very unbalanced. I believe we're a top 6 squad. It doesn't matter anyway, if you can't motivate your players to turn up for a crucial home fixture you're not the man for the job wanted. Losing is one thing, strolling around like a preseason friendly with play off places at stake is another. Any sensible owner with ambition now would have seen enough last night, made the telephone call today, put Holden or Rooster in charge and take the time to get the next appointment right. I certainly won't be paying a gate fee until he's gone now, if he's not the man to take us forward he shouldn't be here |
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Post by yyy on Feb 24, 2022 19:05:03 GMT
None of the above, we have a top 6 squad and a mid-table manager that made a name for himself as an underdog. I think it's pretty unanimous O'Neill isn't the man to take us any further forward so why is he still here at 7p.m tonight? Blimey that’s unanimous now is it ??? Do a poll and find out |
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Post by wuzza on Feb 24, 2022 19:38:20 GMT
Blimey that’s unanimous now is it ??? Do a poll and find out Did you ?? |
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Post by yyy on Feb 24, 2022 19:46:11 GMT
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 24, 2022 19:51:46 GMT
None of the above, we have a top 6 squad and a mid-table manager that made a name for himself as an underdog. I think it's pretty unanimous O'Neill isn't the man to take us any forward so why is he still here at 7p.m tonight? A top six squad without a single decent fullback, give over. We have some very good players but the squad is still very unbalanced. Listen to the way opposition managers talk about our squad. It's a constant theme, they highlight the strength of our squad and the elite level of some of our individual players. It's not just standard manager chat, they're right. Our squad is easily top six and should be challenging for top two. MON having us wallowing in the bottom half is absolutely fucking criminal and starting to look not even a great deal better than his predecessors. |
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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Feb 24, 2022 19:53:19 GMT
None of the above, we have a top 6 squad and a mid-table manager that made a name for himself as an underdog. I think it's pretty unanimous O'Neill isn't the man to take us any further forward so why is he still here at 7p.m tonight? Overall i think we have probably one of the best squads in this league so i agree the manager is the problem but i don't see him being removed anytime soon. The owners may react if the crowd turn on them or the manager but i see him being here at least until the end of the season. |
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Post by yyy on Feb 24, 2022 20:03:11 GMT
None of the above, we have a top 6 squad and a mid-table manager that made a name for himself as an underdog. I think it's pretty unanimous O'Neill isn't the man to take us any further forward so why is he still here at 7p.m tonight? Overall i think we have probably one of the best squads in this league so i agree the manager is the problem but i don't see him being removed anytime soon. The owners may react if the crowd turn on them or the manager but i see him being here at least until the end of the season. It has to turn toxic every time though doesn't it before action, the players get verbal, lose confidence, fans start hating on players & manager etc. The club isn't rotten it just needs managers replacing when they have reached their limit, imo |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2022 20:07:55 GMT
A top six squad without a single decent fullback, give over. We have some very good players but the squad is still very unbalanced. Listen to the way opposition managers talk about our squad. It's a constant theme, they highlight the strength of our squad and the elite level of some of our individual players. It's not just standard manager chat, they're right. Our squad is easily top six and should be challenging for top two. MON having us wallowing in the bottom half is absolutely fucking criminal and starting to look not even a great deal better than his predecessors. When did I defend O'Neill? I just commented that we don't have one decent fullback. A team/squad is only as good as it's weakest link. That's why I don't think we are a top six squad. Other managers can comment all they want, but who would you play at fullback? Please don't come back with Coates and Jones because anyone can suggest a couple of untried academy players. Young Joe Bursik is already getting written off on here. Do we really want to destroy the careers of two more budding youngsters. They need to be integrated slowly. |
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 24, 2022 20:19:56 GMT
Listen to the way opposition managers talk about our squad. It's a constant theme, they highlight the strength of our squad and the elite level of some of our individual players. It's not just standard manager chat, they're right. Our squad is easily top six and should be challenging for top two. MON having us wallowing in the bottom half is absolutely fucking criminal and starting to look not even a great deal better than his predecessors. When did I defend O'Neill? I just commented that we don't have one decent fullback. A team/squad is only as good as it's weakest link. That's why I don't think we are a top six squad. Other managers can comment all they want, but who would you play at fullback? Please don't come back with Coates and Jones because anyone can suggest a couple of untried academy players. Young Joe Bursik is already getting written off on here. Do we really want to destroy the careers of two more budding youngsters. They need to be integrated slowly. The MON part wasn't really meant as a challenge to you, I was just latching on to your comment about the squad. Personally I think our squad has been plenty good enough to at least challenge for the playoffs every year we've been down, weaknesses notwithstanding. And we currently have a very strong squad which really should be top six at the very least with competent management. |
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Post by wuzza on Feb 24, 2022 20:20:06 GMT
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Post by yyy on Feb 24, 2022 20:22:19 GMT
Wuzza - only posted the poll 10 minutes ago
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Post by Gods on Feb 24, 2022 20:37:16 GMT
Am I reading the OP right?
The owners are sending out the players with instructions to lose in case we go and get promoted?
Someone would out the story in about 10 seconds flat, the whole notion is crackers!
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Post by GoBoks on Feb 24, 2022 21:30:45 GMT
A top six squad without a single decent fullback, give over. We have some very good players but the squad is still very unbalanced. I believe we're a top 6 squad. It doesn't matter anyway, if you can't motivate your players to turn up for a crucial home fixture you're not the man for the job wanted. Losing is one thing, strolling around like a preseason friendly with play off places at stake is another. Any sensible owner with ambition now would have seen enough last night, made the telephone call today, put Holden or Rooster in charge and take the time to get the next appointment right. I certainly won't be paying a gate fee until he's gone now, if he's not the man to take us forward he shouldn't be here Whoosh. You think he's not the man for the job, and credit to you if you follow through and don't pay another cent to the club until he is gone. BUT, the whole point of the post is .... maybe the owners have different objectives to you and me. Maybe MON is meeting their objectives 100%. Why would anyone fire a bloke who is performing perfectly compared to the goals he has been set? |
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Post by GoBoks on Feb 24, 2022 21:48:00 GMT
Am I reading the OP right? The owners are sending out the players with instructions to lose in case we go and get promoted? Someone would out the story in about 10 seconds flat, the whole notion is crackers! Doh! Obviously no one would say "go lose". There are far more subtle ways to do it. Like playing a player out of position, making the wrong substitutions, failing to change to plan B if Plan A isn't working, etc etc. Afterall, surely the intelligencia of the Oatcake Board can't be wrong and they have been shouting these things from the rooftops! What if the goal is to further strengthen the team before pushing for promotion? |
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Post by yyy on Feb 24, 2022 21:52:13 GMT
I believe we're a top 6 squad. It doesn't matter anyway, if you can't motivate your players to turn up for a crucial home fixture you're not the man for the job wanted. Losing is one thing, strolling around like a preseason friendly with play off places at stake is another. Any sensible owner with ambition now would have seen enough last night, made the telephone call today, put Holden or Rooster in charge and take the time to get the next appointment right. I certainly won't be paying a gate fee until he's gone now, if he's not the man to take us forward he shouldn't be here Whoosh. You think he's not the man for the job, and credit to you if you follow through and don't pay another cent to the club until he is gone. BUT, the whole point of the post is .... maybe the owners have different objectives to you and me. Maybe MON is meeting their objectives 100%. Why would anyone fire a bloke who is performing perfectly compared to the goals he has been set? If he was set the goals of where we are tonight he would have mentioned it last night, he sounds deflated and mentioned if he was sacked tomorrow he's left the squad in better shape, or words to that effect. That's not a manager that's meeting the goals, surely? For whatever reason the players are not motivated when it matters. I think we should thank him for keeping us up and improving the squad, shake his hand and wish him the best before it turns sour again, which is no good for anybody. |
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Post by Gods on Feb 24, 2022 21:59:10 GMT
Am I reading the OP right? The owners are sending out the players with instructions to lose in case we go and get promoted? Someone would out the story in about 10 seconds flat, the whole notion is crackers! Doh! Obviously no one would say "go lose". There are far more subtle ways to do it. Like playing a player out of position, making the wrong substitutions, failing to change to plan B if Plan A isn't working, etc etc. Afterall, surely the intelligencia of the Oatcake Board can't be wrong and they have been shouting these things from the rooftops! What if the goal is to further strengthen the team before pushing for promotion? That amounts to the same thing and is almost equally as crackers! I think the problem is we are 14th because we are the 14th best team in the division which is roughly what we have been and where we have finished for the last 4 seasons since our unseemly demise. I'm not sure I am buying it that we are much better than we were 24 months ago. We have an odd team of old stagers, journeymen, 'B' grade youngsters and ridiculous fancy dan loans. There is no heart and soul to the team and so the whole thing doesn't add up to a row of beans. |
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Post by GoBoks on Feb 24, 2022 22:05:15 GMT
Whoosh. You think he's not the man for the job, and credit to you if you follow through and don't pay another cent to the club until he is gone. BUT, the whole point of the post is .... maybe the owners have different objectives to you and me. Maybe MON is meeting their objectives 100%. Why would anyone fire a bloke who is performing perfectly compared to the goals he has been set? If he was set the goals of where we are tonight he would have mentioned it last night, he sounds deflated and mentioned if he was sacked tomorrow he's left the squad in better shape, or words to that effect. That's not a manager that's meeting the goals, surely? For whatever reason the players are not motivated when it matters. I think we should thank him for keeping us up and improving the squad, shake his hand and wish him the best before it turns sour again, which is no good for anybody. I haven't had the opportunity to see the interview yet. But I simply cannot get my head around the inconsistency. IMO there is something else going on. How can we see a great performance followed by schoolboy errors and then last night's absolute sleepwalk? I think it is more than the manager. At this stage, I still believe MON can continue to progress, but frankly, I don't care what the club does as long as they get us performing. Fire everyone, kidnap Fulhams team, sell the team to Bill Gates, just do something, because I am not sitting through another 24 years hoping to get back to the top flight! |
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Feb 24, 2022 22:12:21 GMT
We have a top 6 squad... when it is FULLY FIT. Our two best players (arguably 3 if you add Campbell), Powell and Souttar, have been out/unfit for a big chunk of the season.
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Post by yyy on Feb 24, 2022 22:12:38 GMT
If he was set the goals of where we are tonight he would have mentioned it last night, he sounds deflated and mentioned if he was sacked tomorrow he's left the squad in better shape, or words to that effect. That's not a manager that's meeting the goals, surely? For whatever reason the players are not motivated when it matters. I think we should thank him for keeping us up and improving the squad, shake his hand and wish him the best before it turns sour again, which is no good for anybody. I haven't had the opportunity to see the interview yet. But I simply cannot get my head around the inconsistency. IMO there is something else going on. How can we see a great performance followed by schoolboy errors and then last night's absolute sleepwalk? I think it is more than the manager. At this stage, I still believe MON can continue to progress, but frankly, I don't care what the club does as long as they get us performing. Fire everyone, kidnap Fulhams team, sell the team to Bill Gates, just do something, because I am not sitting through another 24 years hoping to get back to the top flight! I do, I do believe it's as simple as the manager, we've got a whole new set of players now, the bomb squad are gone, we can't keep blaming the players, the ceo we loved to blame had gone. Look what wilder has done at boro, words, tactics and organisation make a difference. I think with O Neill it's as simple as he is a mid table manager, his team is lacking despite it being a strong squad, they're not motivated enough, imo If you're keeping a manager that isn't producing what is it saying to the players? It says their performances are just fine |
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Post by dirtygary69 on Feb 24, 2022 22:32:51 GMT
Certainly interesting that some of our worst XG performances have come very recently. There very rarely seems to be an in between and we’re either good or shit. That isn’t progress. That’s just going from one extreme to the other. However, only Fulham have only beaten us by more than one goal which suggests we are very rarely not competitive. So it’s how you view it. Are we very close or are we just as far away as ever, just doing it differently?
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Post by GoBoks on Feb 24, 2022 23:05:11 GMT
Certainly interesting that some of our worst XG performances have come very recently. There very rarely seems to be an in between and we’re either good or shit. That isn’t progress. That’s just going from one extreme to the other. However, only Fulham have only beaten us by more than one goal which suggests we are very rarely not competitive. So it’s how you view it. Are we very close or are we just as far away as ever, just doing it differently? I’m on your side, but…. Last night was not competitive! They could have beaten us 3/4 - 0 |
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Post by dirtygary69 on Feb 24, 2022 23:18:26 GMT
Certainly interesting that some of our worst XG performances have come very recently. There very rarely seems to be an in between and we’re either good or shit. That isn’t progress. That’s just going from one extreme to the other. However, only Fulham have only beaten us by more than one goal which suggests we are very rarely not competitive. So it’s how you view it. Are we very close or are we just as far away as ever, just doing it differently? I’m on your side, but…. Last night was not competitive! They could have beaten us 3/4 - 0 Agreed, that pretty much was a two goal defeat given when we scored, and there have been times where we’ve lost 1-0 and not really looked like getting anything. But if that’s the case, it should also mean that it wouldn’t take anything special to take points. Just a very slight improvement is needed, on paper. In reality, are we further off than just needing a slight improvement, or does it need to be major surgery? |
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Post by GoBoks on Feb 25, 2022 2:41:37 GMT
I’m on your side, but…. Last night was not competitive! They could have beaten us 3/4 - 0 Agreed, that pretty much was a two goal defeat given when we scored, and there have been times where we’ve lost 1-0 and not really looked like getting anything. But if that’s the case, it should also mean that it wouldn’t take anything special to take points. Just a very slight improvement is needed, on paper. In reality, are we further off than just needing a slight improvement, or does it need to be major surgery? Small tweaks should do it in my opinion |
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