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Post by partickpotter on Jan 30, 2022 6:35:39 GMT
50 years ago to the day, the appalling events of Bloody Sunday unfolded.
Worth spending a few quiet moments to reflect on that day and pay respect to those innocent people killed in such tragic circumstances.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jan 30, 2022 10:29:55 GMT
50 years ago to the day, the appalling events of Bloody Sunday unfolded. Worth spending a few quiet moments to reflect on that day and pay respect to those innocent people killed in such tragic circumstances. And a few minutes thought for the poor young buggers sent to keep the peace in a place they didn’t want to be In conditions that still to this day haunt a very good mate of mine |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2022 11:13:16 GMT
50 years ago to the day, the appalling events of Bloody Sunday unfolded. Worth spending a few quiet moments to reflect on that day and pay respect to those innocent people killed in such tragic circumstances. Brushed under the carpet still to this day and still protecting those responsible RIP to those 26 |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 30, 2022 12:08:14 GMT
State sanctioned murder. Lets call it what it was to help ensure it never happens again.......
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Post by OldStokie on Jan 30, 2022 12:10:29 GMT
War is shit... period. Innocent people are killed very often. It's not right, but neither is it right to try and fight a battle against an enemy who wear no battle dress. I've just lost a very dear friend who did two tours of duty in NI. He also fought in Oman and a couple of other places but he always insisted that being in NI was the most stressful when you couldn't let your guard down for a second because you never knew who was your friend or who was your enemy.
So RIP those poor innocent souls who lost their lives on Bloody Sunday, and also RIP those 29 innocents who died in Omagh, as well as every other innocent person who died because of religious bigotry going back 400 years.
OS.
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Post by Dutchpeter on Jan 30, 2022 12:31:09 GMT
State sponsored murder. Lets call it what it was to help ensure it never happens again....... That is clearly a ridiculous statement. State sponsored murder is something like the Holocaust during WW2. Were there any laws or policies that specifically ordered the murder of Irish Citizens? No. This was individuals within the Army messing up big style, no more, no less. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 30, 2022 12:40:34 GMT
State sponsored murder. Lets call it what it was to help ensure it never happens again....... That is clearly a ridiculous statement. State sponsored murder is something like the Holocaust during WW2. Were there any laws or policies that specifically ordered the murder of Irish Citizens? No. This was individuals within the Army messing up big style, no more, no less. I’m not sure the British government when briefing their army generals would announce to the world a policy of “shooting people in the back” to be honest, just because it wasn’t inshrined in law doesn’t mean it wasn’t happening. Was the Ballymurphy Massacre that happened before Bloody Sunday just individuals messing up as well? |
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Post by Dutchpeter on Jan 30, 2022 12:48:36 GMT
That is clearly a ridiculous statement. State sponsored murder is something like the Holocaust during WW2. Were there any laws or policies that specifically ordered the murder of Irish Citizens? No. This was individuals within the Army messing up big style, no more, no less. I’m not sure the British government when briefing their army generals would announce to the world a policy of “shooting people in the back” to be honest, just because it wasn’t inshrined in law doesn’t mean it wasn’t happening. Was the Ballymurphy Massacre that happened before Bloody Sunday just individuals messing up as well? Then it’s not state sponsored murder is it? If the Officers on the ground are not following Rules of Engagement, national law, international law etc then they have failed. If human life is lost due to this failure, then prosecution will result. In this case not for many years, but it’s still not state sponsored murder. You really need to look at Pol Pot, Stalin etc for examples of State sponsoring murder. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 30, 2022 12:53:33 GMT
I’m not sure the British government when briefing their army generals would announce to the world a policy of “shooting people in the back” to be honest, just because it wasn’t inshrined in law doesn’t mean it wasn’t happening. Was the Ballymurphy Massacre that happened before Bloody Sunday just individuals messing up as well? Then it’s not state sponsored murder is it? If the Officers on the ground are not following Rules of Engagement, national law, international law etc then they have failed. If human life is lost due to this failure, then prosecution will result. In this case not for many years, but it’s still not state sponsored murder. You really need to look at Pol Pot, Stalin etc for examples of State sponsoring murder. I’ll happily amend my phrase from “state sponsored” to “state sanctioned”. I have no problem with that, all my other points stand. And I’m sorry but to suggest “if human life is lost due to failure then prosecution will result” is simply untrue considering what has followed over the years…… |
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Post by wagsastokie on Jan 30, 2022 13:47:34 GMT
That is clearly a ridiculous statement. State sponsored murder is something like the Holocaust during WW2. Were there any laws or policies that specifically ordered the murder of Irish Citizens? No. This was individuals within the Army messing up big style, no more, no less. I’m not sure the British government when briefing their army generals would announce to the world a policy of “shooting people in the back” to be honest, just because it wasn’t inshrined in law doesn’t mean it wasn’t happening. Was the Ballymurphy Massacre that happened before Bloody Sunday just individuals messing up as well? Bloody Sunday was a monumental fuck up But I suggest you spend time talking to people who served there Keeping the peace to stop the locals killing each other My best mate still to this day doesn’t sleep a full night Patrol after patrol not knowing if it was you or your best mate that was next Watching a woman pushing a pram not knowing as it come towards you if it was going to turn you into mincemeat State sponsored murder my arse |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 30, 2022 14:22:25 GMT
I’m not sure the British government when briefing their army generals would announce to the world a policy of “shooting people in the back” to be honest, just because it wasn’t inshrined in law doesn’t mean it wasn’t happening. Was the Ballymurphy Massacre that happened before Bloody Sunday just individuals messing up as well? Bloody Sunday was a monumental fuck up But I suggest you spend time talking to people who served there Keeping the peace to stop the locals killing each other My best mate still to this day doesn’t sleep a full night Patrol after patrol not knowing if it was you or your best mate that was next Watching a woman pushing a pram not knowing as it come towards you if it was going to turn you into mincemeat State sponsored murder my arse I’ve spent time talking to people on both sides, I have a family member who served several terms their also. I’m not talking about the very real pressure of combat for individual soldiers, I’m talking about a tactic of shoot to kill when protestors were running away from the scene. Please don’t conflate what I’m saying as it in no way diminishes your friends issues….. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2022 14:40:49 GMT
50 years ago to the day, the appalling events of Bloody Sunday unfolded. Worth spending a few quiet moments to reflect on that day and pay respect to those innocent people killed in such tragic circumstances. And a few minutes thought for the poor young buggers sent to keep the peace in a place they didn’t want to be In conditions that still to this day haunt a very good mate of mine Wasn't it their job as soldiers? I know it wasn't pleasant as witnessed it first hand growing up but what they are trained to deal with . No excuses for what happened. |
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Post by Dutchpeter on Jan 30, 2022 15:03:51 GMT
And a few minutes thought for the poor young buggers sent to keep the peace in a place they didn’t want to be In conditions that still to this day haunt a very good mate of mine Wasn't it their job as soldiers? I know it wasn't pleasant as witnessed it first hand growing up but what they are trained to deal with . No excuses for what happened. No excuses at all for that. Now we have former terrorists and their sympathisers nested within the NI judiciary and police it’s becoming a sport to chase after Army veterans. Clearly there is a case for this in Derry in 1972, but who will get justice for Jean McConville or the Birmingham pub bombing victims for example? Not holding my breath there. Don’t forget the murder of civilians was part of the job for the IRA, who are only held to account when caught. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2022 15:14:52 GMT
Wasn't it their job as soldiers? I know it wasn't pleasant as witnessed it first hand growing up but what they are trained to deal with . No excuses for what happened. No excuses at all for that. Now we have former terrorists and their sympathisers nested within the NI judiciary and police it’s becoming a sport to chase after Army veterans. Clearly there is a case for this in Derry in 1972, but who will get justice for Jean McConville or the Birmingham pub bombing victims for example? Not holding my breath there. Don’t forget the murder of civilians was part of the job for the IRA, who are only held to account when caught. Not a sport of any kind. They were responsible for their actions and other incidents don't deflect or change that. The IRA are irrelevant as far as Bloody Sunday is concerned. Bit like saying I killed someone but not guilty because someone else did the same elsewhere. |
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Post by salopstick on Apr 19, 2024 11:37:35 GMT
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Post by wannabee on Apr 19, 2024 14:02:36 GMT
Many of the Protestant Terrorists released under the terms of GFA were themselves soldiers serving with the UDR Regiment I doubt this decision by the PPS not to bring Perjury Charges will be the final one for the 15 Soldiers and 1 alleged member of Official IRA In the first instance I expect the the Victims Families will seek a Judicial review and if unsuccessful it will be tested in the High Court in Belfast |
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Post by desman2 on Apr 19, 2024 16:08:15 GMT
No excuses at all for that. Now we have former terrorists and their sympathisers nested within the NI judiciary and police it’s becoming a sport to chase after Army veterans. Clearly there is a case for this in Derry in 1972, but who will get justice for Jean McConville or the Birmingham pub bombing victims for example? Not holding my breath there. Don’t forget the murder of civilians was part of the job for the IRA, who are only held to account when caught. Not a sport of any kind. They were responsible for their actions and other incidents don't deflect or change that. The IRA are irrelevant as far as Bloody Sunday is concerned. Bit like saying I killed someone but not guilty because someone else did the same elsewhere. No mention of course of the fact that the IRA use to put gunmen into large crowds to get the response that occurred. If they hadn't stooped to that level then we wouldn't be discussing this now. Having served in that shithole in the 1970's then I do have a knowledge of how they operated, just like the cowards they were. It's easy to be an armchair analyst and draw conclusions from newspaper reports or the BBC but when you are on the ground it's a different thing. |
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Post by elystokie on Apr 19, 2024 19:58:04 GMT
Slightly off topic but the 2nd series of Blue Lights is running on BBC at the moment, both series are available in full on the BBC iPlayer.
Police drama series set in modern day Belfast, really good 👍
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Apr 19, 2024 20:07:27 GMT
Slightly off topic but the 2nd series of Blue Lights is running on BBC at the moment, both series are available in full on the BBC iPlayer. Police drama series set in modern day Belfast, really good 👍 It’s ace, cheers for the heads up Ely👍🏻 |
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Post by tuum on Apr 20, 2024 5:50:37 GMT
State sanctioned murder. Lets call it what it was to help ensure it never happens again....... Really? The detailed report did not support this conclusion but clearly calling something state sanctioned murder is very emotive so they probably wanted to steer clear if possible. From the beginning, very clear instructions were given by the army officers not to antagonise the locals and not to engage with them (which included an instruction not to follow them into Republican areas, specifically the Bogside). There were clear geographical boundaries beyond which the soldiers were instructed not to breach. Bloody Sunday was primarily due to the actions of one officer who ignored these instructions and then lost control. The cover up that followed was the issue. It was not state sanctioned murder. It's a long time since I read the report so happy for you to provide evidence that supports your assertion. |
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Post by tuum on Apr 20, 2024 5:51:54 GMT
Slightly off topic but the 2nd series of Blue Lights is running on BBC at the moment, both series are available in full on the BBC iPlayer. Police drama series set in modern day Belfast, really good 👍 Only knew of this series about a month ago. Very good TV. |
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Post by salopstick on Apr 20, 2024 6:54:31 GMT
Not a sport of any kind. They were responsible for their actions and other incidents don't deflect or change that. The IRA are irrelevant as far as Bloody Sunday is concerned. Bit like saying I killed someone but not guilty because someone else did the same elsewhere. No mention of course of the fact that the IRA use to put gunmen into large crowds to get the response that occurred. If they hadn't stooped to that level then we wouldn't be discussing this now. Having served in that shithole in the 1970's then I do have a knowledge of how they operated, just like the cowards they were. It's easy to be an armchair analyst and draw conclusions from newspaper reports or the BBC but when you are on the ground it's a different thing. In the aftermath of shankhill We were on the falls road in 93 outside divis flats doing a static VCP. 12 hours on 12 hours off. We got fired upon by a cunt in a kids play park area. My mate had the cunt in his sights but chose not to return fire at a risk of hitting a kid |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Apr 20, 2024 9:38:09 GMT
No mention of course of the fact that the IRA use to put gunmen into large crowds to get the response that occurred. If they hadn't stooped to that level then we wouldn't be discussing this now. Having served in that shithole in the 1970's then I do have a knowledge of how they operated, just like the cowards they were. It's easy to be an armchair analyst and draw conclusions from newspaper reports or the BBC but when you are on the ground it's a different thing. In the aftermath of shankhill We were on the falls road in 93 outside divis flats doing a static VCP. 12 hours on 12 hours off. We got fired upon by a cunt in a kids play park area. My mate had the cunt in his sights but chose not to return fire at a risk of hitting a kid Irrespective of the political rights and wrongs of the Irish question, to be a front line soldier at that time must have been frightening. I think there is a world of difference between the armchair commentators who have an absolutely certain answer to every problem and those people who find themselves having to deal with the issues on the ground. |
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Post by gawa on Apr 20, 2024 9:56:38 GMT
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