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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 27, 2022 10:34:49 GMT
To be fair, though, just because it came good for Mowbray, it doesn't mean it will for MON.
Every club has a completely different dynamic.
And every club at this level is pretty much hand-to-mouth. I don't think he's got it worse than any other manager, although the parachute teams are in a different category.
The wages we'll have paid out to MON signings will be comparable to any clubs outside the parachute lot, and very few will have spent as much as we have in the last year.
I think the summer will be time to take stock. It's definitely not as binary as play-offs, keep him and no-play-offs mean it's time to get rid. But I think we need to see more progress.
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Post by werrington on Jan 27, 2022 10:40:01 GMT
Thinking outside of the box is always a good start Like I posted above there’s many good coaches not in the public eye just awaiting a chance Well name one. You've asked me if I was making a serious statement, and I was. But you can't name one person although you've alluded to the fact there are loads. You are correct there’s nobody else Let’s hope for Steve Bruce or Tony Pulis
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Post by wakeypotter on Jan 27, 2022 10:43:59 GMT
Steve Bruce would do better than MON 100%. I wouldn't want him tbh but Bruce is a proven winner at this level. Guesswork. Yes Steve Bruce has a good record in this division, but it was a while ago now and there are no guarantees in football. How do you know that Steve Bruce would have coped with the mess that MON inherited any better or worse? You don't. He might have done, he might not have done. The thing is, these people calling for managers like Bruce, is that in 18 months or less, you can guarantee that they will be saying exactly the same things as what they're saying now. He’s won 4 promotions out of this league how is he not better than mon your talking stupid
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2022 10:44:10 GMT
Well name one. You've asked me if I was making a serious statement, and I was. But you can't name one person although you've alluded to the fact there are loads. You are correct there’s nobody else Let’s hope for Steve Bruce or Tony Pulis I never mentioned once there was no one else. What I did say was if not O'Neill, then who?
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Post by Ron on Jan 27, 2022 10:45:19 GMT
How many “rebuilding” seasons can a side have?! Wasn’t that last season?! Stop making excuses for him. So you expected us to go up with the squad that with have? I don’t think it’s as bad as some make it out to be- we’re not a premier league side any more and , on paper, at this level it’s not that bad
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Post by wakeypotter on Jan 27, 2022 10:45:40 GMT
Steve Bruce We haven’t improved from last season it’s a carbon copy If that was a serious comment then I don't know whether to laugh or cry. According to you mons better than pep He’s proven at this level mon isn’t end of
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Post by cerebralstokie on Jan 27, 2022 10:47:05 GMT
Last night I wrote quite a long piece on the Are we ready to go up thread which could equally fit here. Basically I recommended looking at Blackburn, relegated 4 years before us, the patience they have shown Mowbray in the 5 years since he was appointed and Brereton Diaz since he was signed in 2018 for an undisclosed fee thought to be £6 million. In 4 seasons he scored a total of 9 goals 7 of which came last season when he played nearly all their matches. This season he's scored 20 of their 45. We need a striker who scores that many and until we get one I doubt we'll find it easy to win matches. Hopefully it will be Campbell or Tezgel. But they need the club to be stable and patient for that to happen. Remember Campbell senior said Tyrese became disillusioned at Stoke when managers were rapidly changing because he kept getting pushed aside. I don't want that to happen to Tezgel as he might not be persuaded to stay. For me the biggest reason to keep MON is that he is giving these players a chance and they can see a clear pathway and maybe in the not too distant future we will get to the Premier with a team built around players we have developed who feel that they belong to the club and are proud to pull on the shirt and fight for us in the Championship or Premier because they want us to do well. I rate Mowbray. The Blackburn model is a good one. However, look at the time scale it has taken to get them where they are now. I accept some of the criticism of O'Neill, notably game management but there have been glimpses of what we can do when on top form. I am not convinced that changing managers will solve the problem unless a stand out candidate is free and prepared to take on the job. It is easy to say "get rid" after a run of poor results but replacement is not easy and does not work more often than not. Patience is the key word. I am old enough to remember when Ritchie was transferred to Sheffield Wednesday. Those on the terraces were dubbing him a carthorse and that they were personally willing to convey him over the Pennines in a wheelbarrow. The rest is history.
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Post by potterburt on Jan 27, 2022 10:51:05 GMT
Even foreign managers get sacked. Even German ones. There will be one getting sacked at West Brom very soon I imagine...... Who’s struggled and not been getting a more prem level squad to their full potential even with being better equipped and with more resources compared to ours…. 😬
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2022 10:53:59 GMT
If that was a serious comment then I don't know whether to laugh or cry. According to you mons better than pep He’s proven at this level mon isn’t end of Nonsense. I've not said he's better than anyone. I just don't think he should be sacked.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 27, 2022 10:56:19 GMT
Last night I wrote quite a long piece on the Are we ready to go up thread which could equally fit here. Basically I recommended looking at Blackburn, relegated 4 years before us, the patience they have shown Mowbray in the 5 years since he was appointed and Brereton Diaz since he was signed in 2018 for an undisclosed fee thought to be £6 million. In 4 seasons he scored a total of 9 goals 7 of which came last season when he played nearly all their matches. This season he's scored 20 of their 45. We need a striker who scores that many and until we get one I doubt we'll find it easy to win matches. Hopefully it will be Campbell or Tezgel. But they need the club to be stable and patient for that to happen. Remember Campbell senior said Tyrese became disillusioned at Stoke when managers were rapidly changing because he kept getting pushed aside. I don't want that to happen to Tezgel as he might not be persuaded to stay. For me the biggest reason to keep MON is that he is giving these players a chance and they can see a clear pathway and maybe in the not too distant future we will get to the Premier with a team built around players we have developed who feel that they belong to the club and are proud to pull on the shirt and fight for us in the Championship or Premier because they want us to do well. I rate Mowbray. The Blackburn model is a good one. However, look at the time scale it has taken to get them where they are now. I accept some of the criticism of O'Neill, notably game management but there have been glimpses of what we can do when on top form. I am not convinced that changing managers will solve the problem unless a stand out candidate is free and prepared to take on the job. It is easy to say "get rid" after a run of poor results but replacement is not easy and does not work more often than not. Patience is the key word. I am old enough to remember when Ritchie was transferred to Sheffield Wednesday. Those on the terraces were dubbing him a carthorse and that they were personally willing to convey him over the Pennines in a wheelbarrow. The rest is history. I don't know if it's true to say it doesn't work more often than not. You just have to make sure you get the replacement right. I don't think it's time to sack MON yet but if we'd applied 'the Mowbray model' to Lambert or Jones there's a good chance we'd be planning a trip to Cheltenham this weekend.
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Post by theonlooker on Jan 27, 2022 10:56:40 GMT
Steve Bruce. Christ.
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Post by heworksardtho on Jan 27, 2022 10:58:22 GMT
I meant at the end of the season if we are not in the top 6 then we should part company So you think Blackburn would have done better if they'd sacked Mowbray two years ago? Don’t know but if I can guess the lottery numbers for Friday il pm you
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Post by heworksardtho on Jan 27, 2022 10:59:55 GMT
I meant at the end of the season if we are not in the top 6 then we should part company What if we play brilliantly between now and then? And lose out on goal difference? Despite having loads more injuries? And the roof blows off the Boothen? Still sack him then? What if I buy a scratch card and win a million What if the earth is really glad What if the moon 🌝 is made of cheese
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2022 11:01:39 GMT
Exactly. It's fucking laughable in the extreme, but at least it's only one bloke saying it. The irony isnt lost on me though.
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Post by wherty on Jan 27, 2022 11:06:12 GMT
So we have to sell before we can even get free transfers or loans in and you think we're in a position to pay a club between 1 an 2 million in compensation? Where did I say that? Also why does it have to be somebody whose “a face”? There’s many excellent coaches at u23 level who need a chance "Even those in a current position".
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 27, 2022 11:08:06 GMT
I rate Mowbray. The Blackburn model is a good one. However, look at the time scale it has taken to get them where they are now. I accept some of the criticism of O'Neill, notably game management but there have been glimpses of what we can do when on top form. I am not convinced that changing managers will solve the problem unless a stand out candidate is free and prepared to take on the job. It is easy to say "get rid" after a run of poor results but replacement is not easy and does not work more often than not. Patience is the key word. I am old enough to remember when Ritchie was transferred to Sheffield Wednesday. Those on the terraces were dubbing him a carthorse and that they were personally willing to convey him over the Pennines in a wheelbarrow. The rest is history. I don't know if it's true to say it doesn't work more often than not. You just have to make sure you get the replacement right. I don't think it's time to sack MON yet but if we'd applied 'the Mowbray model' to Lambert or Jones there's a good chance we'd be planning a trip to Cheltenham this weekend. The "Mowbray model" involved the club heading broadly in the right direction in the table though (they did dip slightly last season albeit not by a great deal), whereas the Jones model was a runaway train heading over a cliff........
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Post by cerebralstokie on Jan 27, 2022 11:08:25 GMT
I rate Mowbray. The Blackburn model is a good one. However, look at the time scale it has taken to get them where they are now. I accept some of the criticism of O'Neill, notably game management but there have been glimpses of what we can do when on top form. I am not convinced that changing managers will solve the problem unless a stand out candidate is free and prepared to take on the job. It is easy to say "get rid" after a run of poor results but replacement is not easy and does not work more often than not. Patience is the key word. I am old enough to remember when Ritchie was transferred to Sheffield Wednesday. Those on the terraces were dubbing him a carthorse and that they were personally willing to convey him over the Pennines in a wheelbarrow. The rest is history. I don't know if it's true to say it doesn't work more often than not. You just have to make sure you get the replacement right. I don't think it's time to sack MON yet but if we'd applied 'the Mowbray model' to Lambert or Jones there's a good chance we'd be planning a trip to Cheltenham this weekend. I take your point. Is Jones a good manager? If you are a Luton fan the answer is yes. For Stoke he was the worst in living memory. Lambert seems to be "average" and comes over as being very grumpy. When judging O'Neill then circumstances (injuries, FFP and the dressing room he inherited) need to be taken into account.
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Post by wakeypotter on Jan 27, 2022 11:11:18 GMT
Proven end of What credentials did mon have before he came
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Post by wakeypotter on Jan 27, 2022 11:13:42 GMT
Exactly. It's fucking laughable in the extreme, but at least it's only one bloke saying it. The irony isnt lost on me though. You’ve no argument though have you. I’m not saying O’Neil should be sacked just Bruce is better (proven)
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Post by wakeypotter on Jan 27, 2022 11:16:42 GMT
According to you mons better than pep He’s proven at this level mon isn’t end of Nonsense. I've not said he's better than anyone. I just don't think he should be sacked. I’m not saying mon should be sacked because I don’t trust the board to appoint another manager My argument is Bruce is at least 4 times better than mon. How some people think he walks on water is beyond me not just with results but with performances
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 27, 2022 11:17:04 GMT
I don't know if it's true to say it doesn't work more often than not. You just have to make sure you get the replacement right. I don't think it's time to sack MON yet but if we'd applied 'the Mowbray model' to Lambert or Jones there's a good chance we'd be planning a trip to Cheltenham this weekend. The "Mowbray model" involved the club heading broadly in the right direction in the table though (they did dip slightly last season albeit not by a great deal), whereas the Jones model was a runaway train heading over a cliff........ It's a fair point. They did regress last season but he's made some astute signings. Not quite sure how much credit he gets for the Brereton Diaz situation, which seems to come in some part from the newfound confidence his unlikely Copa America heroics gave him.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 27, 2022 11:17:44 GMT
I don't know if it's true to say it doesn't work more often than not. You just have to make sure you get the replacement right. I don't think it's time to sack MON yet but if we'd applied 'the Mowbray model' to Lambert or Jones there's a good chance we'd be planning a trip to Cheltenham this weekend. I take your point. Is Jones a good manager? If you are a Luton fan the answer is yes. For Stoke he was the worst in living memory. Lambert seems to be "average" and comes over as being very grumpy. When judging O'Neill then circumstances (injuries, FFP and the dressing room he inherited) need to be taken into account. I agree completely. But so do his own failings to date.
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Post by wherty on Jan 27, 2022 11:17:48 GMT
Hasn't Steve Bruce been sacked by about 7 different clubs?
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Post by potterburt on Jan 27, 2022 11:18:09 GMT
I don't know if it's true to say it doesn't work more often than not. You just have to make sure you get the replacement right. I don't think it's time to sack MON yet but if we'd applied 'the Mowbray model' to Lambert or Jones there's a good chance we'd be planning a trip to Cheltenham this weekend. The "Mowbray model" involved the club heading broadly in the right direction in the table though (they did dip slightly last season albeit not by a great deal), whereas the Jones model was a runaway train heading over a cliff........ Also - let’s not ignore the fact the the ‘Mowbray Model’ has massively been working and aided alongside 1-2 players coming very good. Bereton-Diaz’s 20 goals in 27 matches compared with his 7 from 40 last season. Any team in this division that has a player on track for scoring 40 odd goals is going to be doing well. They scored 45 goals so far and conceded 30, without Bereton-Diaz we would not be discussing the ‘Mowbray Model’ as something to aspire to
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Post by march4 on Jan 27, 2022 11:18:55 GMT
Michael is now a man coming to the end of his tenure as our manager. Whether he leaves tomorrow, next week, next month or at the end of the season it seems clear to me he isn’t going to be at SCFC much longer.
I would hope the board are thinking about alternatives and starting to make discrete enquiries.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 27, 2022 11:21:45 GMT
The "Mowbray model" involved the club heading broadly in the right direction in the table though (they did dip slightly last season albeit not by a great deal), whereas the Jones model was a runaway train heading over a cliff........ It's a fair point. They did regress last season but he's made some astute signings. Not quite sure how much credit he gets for the Brereton Diaz situation, which seems to come in some part from the newfound confidence his unlikely Copa America heroics gave him. Yeah it's hard to know how influential he's been with Brereton Diaz in terms of his uplift in form, but I would certainly say they got a little bit lucky with that whole scenario. Sometimes that little bit of luck like a player being drafted in through injury (Rashford at Man Utd springs to mind, SWP for us hopefully!) is all it takes to get things up and running......
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 27, 2022 11:24:53 GMT
The "Mowbray model" involved the club heading broadly in the right direction in the table though (they did dip slightly last season albeit not by a great deal), whereas the Jones model was a runaway train heading over a cliff........ Also - let’s not ignore the fact the the ‘Mowbray Model’ has massively been working and aided alongside 1-2 players coming very good. Bereton-Diaz’s 20 goals in 27 matches compared with his 7 from 40 last season. Any team in this division that has a player on track for scoring 40 odd goals is going to be doing well. They scored 45 goals so far and conceded 30, without Bereton-Diaz we would not be discussing the ‘Mowbray Model’ as something to aspire to Shove a 30 goal a season striker into our team over the last few years and they would have ceased being a 30 goal a season striker though. You still have to get the balance between attack and defence right and give these players the service. I certainly wouldn't belittle Mowbray's achievements this season as their upturn in form has been remarkable and they lost a guy that scored 28 league goals last season don't forget.......
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 27, 2022 11:25:10 GMT
What if we play brilliantly between now and then? And lose out on goal difference? Despite having loads more injuries? And the roof blows off the Boothen? Still sack him then? What if I buy a scratch card and win a million What if the earth is really glad What if the moon 🌝 is made of cheese Yeah. Kinda my point. How can you definitively say he should get sacked if we don’t get top 6 when we have no way of knowing how the season will play out. How about. Wait till the end of the season and make a call then?
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Post by 16quidachuck on Jan 27, 2022 11:25:47 GMT
Controversial but i think Mark Hughes would get this team promoted. The fans would never get on board with the idea so it would never happen.
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Post by klingon on Jan 27, 2022 11:26:39 GMT
No he isn't. He's Bernard Cribbins' representative on earth.
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