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Post by mtrstudent on Jan 17, 2023 18:31:32 GMT
Those are wrecked Russian BMP fighting vehicles. A Ukrainian soldier says they whacked 14 BMPs and 2 tanks.
After weeks of infantry slogging through mud there's been a freeze so we could see more vehicle movements like this one.
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Post by denfcdk on Jan 18, 2023 19:45:23 GMT
Friends, we are so thankful for everything you are doing to support us. Eternally grateful. Of course, you understand everything. Crucial moment. We must win. Altogether. 🇺🇦🇬🇧
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Post by Robo10 on Jan 18, 2023 20:08:15 GMT
Stay safe Den
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Post by questionable on Jan 18, 2023 20:29:22 GMT
Friends, we are so thankful for everything you are doing to support us. Eternally grateful. Of course, you understand everything. Crucial moment. We must win. Altogether. 🇺🇦🇬🇧 Big day tomorrow Den, here’s wishing Ukraine get a massive arms package and once and for all crush the Russians
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Post by denfcdk on Jan 18, 2023 21:16:30 GMT
Thank you, friends, weapons are needed so much. Every package is important, and we do hope to hear some big news tomorrow. Every day and every night is priceless. russians bring more and more their soldiers. Yes, some of them are not well prepared, well equipped, but they are numerous. It is impossible to imagine why these slaves are ready to die (and ready to kill as well) for nothing. But they bring more and more. Modern weapons is needed to stop them, as you say, forever. We just have to stop them now in Ukraine. Thank you, friends, for supporting us. Hope, one day to see you all here, in Kyiv to say thank you in person.
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Post by Northy on Jan 19, 2023 9:49:37 GMT
Thank you, friends, weapons are needed so much. Every package is important, and we do hope to hear some big news tomorrow. Every day and every night is priceless. russians bring more and more their soldiers. Yes, some of them are not well prepared, well equipped, but they are numerous. It is impossible to imagine why these slaves are ready to die (and ready to kill as well) for nothing. But they bring more and more. Modern weapons is needed to stop them, as you say, forever. We just have to stop them now in Ukraine. Thank you, friends, for supporting us. Hope, one day to see you all here, in Kyiv to say thank you in person. Yes, hopefully you will get a lot of tanks in the very near future and push them all the way back out of your lands, and Putin is put up for war crimes in the Hague.
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 19, 2023 11:07:09 GMT
Thank you, friends, weapons are needed so much. Every package is important, and we do hope to hear some big news tomorrow. Every day and every night is priceless. russians bring more and more their soldiers. Yes, some of them are not well prepared, well equipped, but they are numerous. It is impossible to imagine why these slaves are ready to die (and ready to kill as well) for nothing. But they bring more and more. Modern weapons is needed to stop them, as you say, forever. We just have to stop them now in Ukraine. Thank you, friends, for supporting us. Hope, one day to see you all here, in Kyiv to say thank you in person. You are correct to say, we must stop them now in Ukraine. As was said before when another country was invaded: "It is us today, it will be you tomorrow"abyssiniancrisis.wordpress.com/2015/11/01/it-is-us-today-it-will-be-you-tomorrow/
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Post by mtrstudent on Jan 19, 2023 18:02:37 GMT
Accuracy for each type of artillery ammo. The little circles show how close you expect to get to a target.
I think it's interesting that they need weather data within last 30 mins to get that accurate with normal shells. But if they have drones or spotters I bet they can adjust after the first hits.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jan 19, 2023 18:12:03 GMT
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Post by denfcdk on Jan 19, 2023 18:58:13 GMT
Friends, please, don't treat this message as any pressure etc. Just if you feel you can and want to participate. Right now (today) we are raising money to buy a night thermal imager for my colleague's relative who is now near Bahmut. The sum is not that big, but, as you understand, we try to help as many heroes as possible and donate regularly. At the same time, I am sure, you also help A LOT to Ukraine already. So, only if you want and can, please, text me or just support the man. My colleague's card (the account is in UAH, I don't know if you can make a transfer):
5168 7450 1884 2754
No need to donate a lot, but any sum is important. So far, they collected around 500 GBP out of 1000 needed (Price is around 56000 UAH).
Thank you anyway. Sorry if you find this message inappropriate. I know a lot of guys here know me in person, so I dared to post here this information.
Update. PayPal of my colleague: Kydrywka@bigmir.net
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Post by mtrstudent on Jan 19, 2023 19:07:04 GMT
Friends, please, don't treat this message as any pressure etc. Just if you feel you can and want to participate. Right now (today) we are raising money to buy a night thermal imager for my colleague's relative who is now near Bahmut. The sum is not that big, but, as you understand, we try to help as many heroes as possible and donate regularly. At the same time, I am sure, you also help A LOT to Ukraine already. So, only if you want and can, please, text me or just support the man. My colleague's card (the account is in UAH, I don't know if you can make a transfer): 5168 7450 1884 2754 No need to donate a lot, but any sum is important. So far, they collected around 500 GBP out of 1000 needed (Price is around 56000 UAH). Thank you anyway. Sorry if you find this message inappropriate. I know a lot of guys here know me in person, so I dared to post here this information. Mate I've seen so many videos from soldiers there explaining how they always need more drones, night vision, radios etc. You can guarantee it's not a scammer so IMO no need to feel sorry - you're trying to save innocent lives. I've DMd.
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Post by denfcdk on Jan 19, 2023 20:00:43 GMT
Thank you so much!! Of course, it is for a real person, direct help. I am honored to know many guys from the oatcake in person, but I understand - not all of you know me, so thank you for trusting. Thank you, friends.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Jan 20, 2023 10:25:41 GMT
All the talk around sending tanks and Russia stating it would be a severe escalation if Western countries were to do so.
Haven’t we be doing that already?
Or has it been weaponry without tanks?
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Post by mtrstudent on Jan 20, 2023 15:05:38 GMT
All the talk around sending tanks and Russia stating it would be a severe escalation if Western countries were to do so. Haven’t we be doing that already? Or has it been weaponry without tanks? Ukraine has received T-72s and upgraded T-55s. Also things that journalists call tanks but technically aren't. No NATO main battle tanks promised except our handful of challenger 2s. Russia's threats happen every time. They try to scare people. Then if the weapons go, they say "well that weapon is useless anyway" followed by claiming to destroy them all.
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Post by OldStokie on Jan 20, 2023 20:19:06 GMT
The German and US decision not to send battle tanks is very worrying. Those countries that have the 2000 German Leopard Tanks that are scattered around Europe should break their agreement with Germany and send at least 300 + ammo to UKR. And if Germany refuses to sell them anymore because they've broken the agreement, they can replace those sent to UKR with our Challengers.
OS.
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Post by denfcdk on Jan 20, 2023 21:23:13 GMT
The German and US decision not to send battle tanks is very worrying. Those countries that have the 2000 German Leopard Tanks that are scattered around Europe should break their agreement with Germany and send at least 300 + ammo to UKR. And if Germany refuses to sell them anymore because they've broken the agreement, they can replace those sent to UKR with our Challengers. OS. Absolutely agree. Just had a conversation with a person whose relative is at the frontline. It isn't right to use the word "hard" in this situation, but I don't know how to say it correctly... It is EXTREMELY HARD near Bakhmut without enough tanks... Ukrainian heroes do need tanks so much and right now. Thank you, everyone, supporting us.
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Post by wannabee on Jan 21, 2023 2:09:48 GMT
The German and US decision not to send battle tanks is very worrying. Those countries that have the 2000 German Leopard Tanks that are scattered around Europe should break their agreement with Germany and send at least 300 + ammo to UKR. And if Germany refuses to sell them anymore because they've broken the agreement, they can replace those sent to UKR with our Challengers. OS. I don't think it's quite as simple as that Of the 1800 odd Leopard Tanks ex Germany (321) Switzerland and Austria who are outside Nato have about 200 odd Turkey with 300+ are never going to send them Poland and Finland who have about 350 between them want to send about 14 So of the remaining 950 odd Greece has 350 odd Spain 330 and Sweden 120 The rest are dribs and Drabs scattered around the place So of the 14 apparently committed can you make up the numbers to get to the asked for 300? I can't As for Leopards being replaced by Challengers that fantasy UK currently has 227 Changers of which 79 are due to be retired and the remaining 148 to be upgraded and presumably extra by 3027 It would take some ramp up in manufacture by BAE to meet everyone's requirements It appears to me that Nato is doing just about enough to keep Ukraine competitive but not enough to land a decisive blow Maybe some are considering the unthinkable what if Russia against everyone's hope does manage to take over Ukraine There will be 4 Nato Countries Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and Romania right up against Russias Borders who must be watching events intensely and planning accordingly
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jan 21, 2023 7:56:43 GMT
Slightly off topic …I’ve always been an advocate of the nuclear deterrent in that if our potential enemies have it then we must also. This has kept a status quo by preventing nuclear conflict between the super powers. However the Ukraine war has helped Putin to use nuclear weapons in a different way by threatening their use in certain scenarios and, whether it’s bluff or not, it has prevented any direct NATO involvement except weapon supplies and training. This threat/bluffing has stopped direct NATO intervention which Putin knows, with conventional weapons only, would be defeat for Russia and his probable demise. The worry now for global security is that this method of using the threat of nuclear weapons as a means of deterring larger military powers from taking action can be used by the likes of North Korea, Iran and other smaller countries in possession of them. It may also encourage small belligerent countries to develop them for themselves. What a mess we’re in.
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Post by musik on Jan 21, 2023 9:21:54 GMT
The worry now for global security is that this method of using the threat of nuclear weapons as a means of deterring larger military powers from taking action can be used by the likes of North Korea, Iran and other smaller countries in possession of them. It may also encourage small belligerent countries to develop them for themselves. What a mess we’re in. I'm not informed at all about this, so: by whom and where was it decided what countries could have nuclear weapons?
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jan 21, 2023 11:04:04 GMT
The worry now for global security is that this method of using the threat of nuclear weapons as a means of deterring larger military powers from taking action can be used by the likes of North Korea, Iran and other smaller countries in possession of them. It may also encourage small belligerent countries to develop them for themselves. What a mess we’re in. I'm not informed at all about this, so: by whom and where was it decided what countries could have nuclear weapons? Nobody decides apart from the country that develops and makes them……USA, UK, France, Pakistan, India, North Korea, Israel, China & Russia. NATO member countries come under umbrella of USA, UK and France for protection although these countries nuclear deterrent is outside of NATO control. As far as you not being informed of the threat, it is me making a summation that it is a distinct possibility. Look how belligerent North Korea has become, with a military strength of 1.2 million, yet they lie 34th in the Global Firepower Index, lower than the likes of Mexico, Algeria & Philippines, and yet have nuclear weapons.
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Post by wannabee on Jan 21, 2023 11:53:33 GMT
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Post by OldStokie on Jan 21, 2023 11:55:39 GMT
The German and US decision not to send battle tanks is very worrying. Those countries that have the 2000 German Leopard Tanks that are scattered around Europe should break their agreement with Germany and send at least 300 + ammo to UKR. And if Germany refuses to sell them anymore because they've broken the agreement, they can replace those sent to UKR with our Challengers. OS. I don't think it's quite as simple as that Of the 1800 odd Leopard Tanks ex Germany (321) Switzerland and Austria who are outside Nato have about 200 odd Turkey with 300+ are never going to send them Poland and Finland who have about 350 between them want to send about 14 So of the remaining 950 odd Greece has 350 odd Spain 330 and Sweden 120 The rest are dribs and Drabs scattered around the place So of the 14 apparently committed can you make up the numbers to get to the asked for 300? I can't As for Leopards being replaced by Challengers that fantasy UK currently has 227 Changers of which 79 are due to be retired and the remaining 148 to be upgraded and presumably extra by 3027 It would take some ramp up in manufacture by BAE to meet everyone's requirements It appears to me that Nato is doing just about enough to keep Ukraine competitive but not enough to land a decisive blow Maybe some are considering the unthinkable what if Russia against everyone's hope does manage to take over Ukraine There will be 4 Nato Countries Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and Romania right up against Russias Borders who must be watching events intensely and planning accordingly I wouldn't disagree with your appraisal on the bigger picture or how the maths would work, but I do know that UKR will never win this war unless they have the tackle to defeat Russia, and at the moment, without tanks, they've got little chance of swinging things in their favour to drive them out of their country. Moral is fantastic from the UKR people, but moral alone doesn't win wars. Going back to WW2, the Germans fought tooth and nail right to the end but overwhelming firepower/manpower against them was the deciding factor. Given the numbers and situation you've described, The West/Nato should be able to supply 300 tanks if they have the will to do so. If The West/Nato don't back UKR to the full now then Russian permanent occupation of the Donbas and Crimea will become the ONLY option to partially end this conflict. OS.
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Post by wannabee on Jan 21, 2023 12:41:17 GMT
I don't think it's quite as simple as that Of the 1800 odd Leopard Tanks ex Germany (321) Switzerland and Austria who are outside Nato have about 200 odd Turkey with 300+ are never going to send them Poland and Finland who have about 350 between them want to send about 14 So of the remaining 950 odd Greece has 350 odd Spain 330 and Sweden 120 The rest are dribs and Drabs scattered around the place So of the 14 apparently committed can you make up the numbers to get to the asked for 300? I can't As for Leopards being replaced by Challengers that fantasy UK currently has 227 Changers of which 79 are due to be retired and the remaining 148 to be upgraded and presumably extra by 3027 It would take some ramp up in manufacture by BAE to meet everyone's requirements It appears to me that Nato is doing just about enough to keep Ukraine competitive but not enough to land a decisive blow Maybe some are considering the unthinkable what if Russia against everyone's hope does manage to take over Ukraine There will be 4 Nato Countries Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and Romania right up against Russias Borders who must be watching events intensely and planning accordingly I wouldn't disagree with your appraisal on the bigger picture or how the maths would work, but I do know that UKR will never win this war unless they have the tackle to defeat Russia, and at the moment, without tanks, they've got little chance of swinging things in their favour to drive them out of their country. Moral is fantastic from the UKR people, but moral alone doesn't win wars. Going back to WW2, the Germans fought tooth and nail right to the end but overwhelming firepower/manpower against them was the deciding factor. Given the numbers and situation you've described, The West/Nato should be able to supply 300 tanks if they have the will to do so. If The West/Nato don't back UKR to the full now then Russian permanent occupation of the Donbas and Crimea will become the ONLY option to partially end this conflict. OS. I fully agree with you I suppose in a way I'm partly musing why Nato won't make the decisive step to fully arm Ukraine There could be any number of reasons of course in this complex situation besides the standoff between between Germany and US as to why Nato is dithering One theory I propose is that the supply of 300 Leopard Tanks would undoubtedly be an escalation aimed to be more offensive than defensive. What happens if the Tanks are supplied and it doesn't alter the stalemate or even worse? What would Nato's next step be? On the other side of the coin when dealing with a Madman what if the Tanks are decisive and remove Russia from Ukraine soil. What options does said Madman have? The ultimate answer is obvious and at what target would they be aimed? A synonym I remember explains the difference between being Committed and being Involved as being like Breakfast In Breakfast the Pig is Committed but the Hen is merely Involved Ukraine is Committed, is Nato or are they merely Involved?
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 21, 2023 12:52:47 GMT
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Post by OldStokie on Jan 21, 2023 13:47:22 GMT
I wouldn't disagree with your appraisal on the bigger picture or how the maths would work, but I do know that UKR will never win this war unless they have the tackle to defeat Russia, and at the moment, without tanks, they've got little chance of swinging things in their favour to drive them out of their country. Moral is fantastic from the UKR people, but moral alone doesn't win wars. Going back to WW2, the Germans fought tooth and nail right to the end but overwhelming firepower/manpower against them was the deciding factor. Given the numbers and situation you've described, The West/Nato should be able to supply 300 tanks if they have the will to do so. If The West/Nato don't back UKR to the full now then Russian permanent occupation of the Donbas and Crimea will become the ONLY option to partially end this conflict. OS. I fully agree with you I suppose in a way I'm partly musing why Nato won't make the decisive step to fully arm Ukraine There could be any number of reasons of course in this complex situation besides the standoff between between Germany and US as to why Nato is dithering One theory I propose is that the supply of 300 Leopard Tanks would undoubtedly be an escalation aimed to be more offensive than defensive. What happens if the Tanks are supplied and it doesn't alter the stalemate or even worse? What would Nato's next step be? On the other side of the coin when dealing with a Madman what if the Tanks are decisive and remove Russia from Ukraine soil. What options does said Madman have? The ultimate answer is obvious and at what target would they be aimed? A synonym I remember explains the difference between being Committed and being Involved as being like Breakfast In Breakfast the Pig is Committed but the Hen is merely Involved Ukraine is Committed, is Nato or are they merely Involved? Like you, I'm always musing stuff. But I'm neither clever enough or well-informed enough to battle my way through all the complexities of the situation. I'm also aware that the German public are pretty much 50/50 on the matter of supplying tanks. So then the question is... how much is politics playing a role in their decision not to supply tanks? I'm musing on how much the power of the US can go on German affairs. There is a compromise... German doesn't send tanks but doesn't stop other countries from sending Leopards to UKR. It will all come out of the wash but that bloody leccy meter is playing up and the 'washing' is taking too long. OS.
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Post by wannabee on Jan 21, 2023 13:49:08 GMT
I could easily give away something I don't have so it's a pity those 3 Baltic States don't have a Leopard between them or indeed Britain has so few serviceable Challenger Tanks it can only commit 14 I proposed one theory above for the dithering, there are probably many. There is obviously some reason stopping US sending Abrams which would break the deadlock.
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Post by xchpotter on Jan 21, 2023 13:50:48 GMT
Germany only ever does what is in Germany’s interests. It seems unity in Europe, which is so heavily championed, is arbitrary when it suits.
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Post by wannabee on Jan 21, 2023 14:12:34 GMT
I fully agree with you I suppose in a way I'm partly musing why Nato won't make the decisive step to fully arm Ukraine There could be any number of reasons of course in this complex situation besides the standoff between between Germany and US as to why Nato is dithering One theory I propose is that the supply of 300 Leopard Tanks would undoubtedly be an escalation aimed to be more offensive than defensive. What happens if the Tanks are supplied and it doesn't alter the stalemate or even worse? What would Nato's next step be? On the other side of the coin when dealing with a Madman what if the Tanks are decisive and remove Russia from Ukraine soil. What options does said Madman have? The ultimate answer is obvious and at what target would they be aimed? A synonym I remember explains the difference between being Committed and being Involved as being like Breakfast In Breakfast the Pig is Committed but the Hen is merely Involved Ukraine is Committed, is Nato or are they merely Involved? Like you, I'm always musing stuff. But I'm neither clever enough or well-informed enough to battle my way through all the complexities of the situation. I'm also aware that the German public are pretty much 50/50 on the matter of supplying tanks. So then the question is... how much is politics playing a role in their decision not to supply tanks? I'm musing on how much the power of the US can go on German affairs. There is a compromise... German doesn't send tanks but doesn't stop other countries from sending Leopards to UKR. It will all come out of the wash but that bloody leccy meter is playing up and the 'washing' is taking too long. OS. I can assure you mine are merely musings as I have no Military knowledge as is evident About 30 years ago on a Business Trip to Belgorod we were taken to the scene of the Tank conflict between the Veronezh (German Front) and Steppe (Russian Front) during the Battle of Kursk. Our Ukrainian Hosts in Belgorod (they were very keen to emphasise that) were very keen to boast that it was the turning point in WW11. I swear there was hardly a blade of grass growing in those eerie fields and the noise in the Museum Renactment was deafening This is the precise historical experience which is part of the German physiological thinking
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Post by wannabee on Jan 21, 2023 14:26:48 GMT
Germany only ever does what is in Germany’s interests. It seems unity in Europe, which is so heavily championed, is arbitrary when it suits. Could you give me a list of the Countries which don't act in their own interests? Id be very interested
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Post by RichieBarkerOut! on Jan 21, 2023 16:56:00 GMT
I could easily give away something I don't have so it's a pity those 3 Baltic States don't have a Leopard between them or indeed Britain has so few serviceable Challenger Tanks it can only commit 14 I proposed one theory above for the dithering, there are probably many. There is obviously some reason stopping US sending Abrams which would break the deadlock. From what I understand, deploying Abrams tanks requires a far greater logistics effort than Leopards and Challengers, as the things are incredibly thirsty. They are something of an "all in" weapon, whereas the Leopard (and I assume the Challenger 2) require far less support than the Abrams.
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