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Post by Ex-term-oat-cake on Apr 23, 2021 9:27:38 GMT
Attachment DeletedSo here we are.... Below Rowett’s Millwall. Below Jones’ Luton. How do so many thrive after they leave. Does make you wonder if there is a systemic problem.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 23, 2021 9:32:36 GMT
It doesn't. The circumstances of those clubs are different. Context is everything.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Apr 23, 2021 9:34:38 GMT
But MON has managed Stoke City far better than either of those pair of tits ever did.
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Post by theonlooker on Apr 23, 2021 9:50:34 GMT
All it proves is Jones was the wrong man for the situation he inherited here, and is not the disaster manager he was painted by the situation, and it proves that Rowett is what he is, a mid table manager that plays pragmatic football.
The bigger question that spins off from this will probably never be answered, and that is why at the relevant times they were appointed, were they actually appointed in favour of someone else? At both junctions, you could argue that we still had the pull and gravitas to attract better or more suitable.
Given we managed to attract MON after both of those people, and with the club in a more dire situation than it ever had been, you could be well within your rights as a fan to ask why the hell wasn't he appointed earlier, when he had more room to implement his more scientific transfer strategy than Big Kev having a stork on for Benik and Nathan chasing diamonds with Stephen Ward....when he is clearly a better manager than both...?
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 23, 2021 9:55:47 GMT
So if Stoke were where Millwall are in the table would everyone be happy?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 23, 2021 10:00:55 GMT
View AttachmentSo here we are.... Below Rowett’s Millwall. Below Jones’ Luton. How do so many thrive after they leave. Does make you wonder if there is a systemic problem. Being on the same points as us or 1 place above us in the league is hardly thriving! If they are thriving, so are we! |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2021 10:17:08 GMT
View AttachmentSo here we are.... Below Rowett’s Millwall. Below Jones’ Luton. How do so many thrive after they leave. Does make you wonder if there is a systemic problem. Being on the same points as us or 1 place above us in the league is hardly thriving! If they are thriving, so are we! Millwall and Luton are on a completely different budget to Stoke Their players wages could well in total , be less than Stoke spend on wages for players who don't even play for us , but are off doing their own thing in Germany or turkey or Derby or whatever They are spending massively less than Stoke and getting more points It's easy to say NJ is thicko , rowett is an idiot etc , but they can manage in the championship Granted they don't want to be at a club that spends a huge proportion of its budget on players , who don't want to play for Stoke , can't be arsed with Stoke and don't want to be here But Maybe MoN doesn't want that too Maybe nobody wants that , but it's just the reality of managing Stoke |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 23, 2021 10:17:11 GMT
All it proves is Jones was the wrong man for the situation he inherited here, and is not the disaster manager he was painted by the situation, and it proves that Rowett is what he is, a mid table manager that plays pragmatic football. The bigger question that spins off from this will probably never be answered, and that is why at the relevant times they were appointed, were they actually appointed in favour of someone else? At both junctions, you could argue that we still had the pull and gravitas to attract better or more suitable. Given we managed to attract MON after both of those people, and with the club in a more dire situation than it ever had been, you could be well within your rights as a fan to ask why the hell wasn't he appointed earlier, when he had more room to implement his more scientific transfer strategy than Big Kev having a stork on for Benik and Nathan chasing diamonds with Stephen Ward....when he is clearly a better manager than both...? Is/was MON that big a name for him to be such a difficult manager to attract for a club like ours, did well at international but his experience at a decent league level was pretty much non existent? |
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Post by OldStokie on Apr 23, 2021 11:14:29 GMT
A big part of the reason we're below them is because of the shit state THEY left us in.
OS.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 23, 2021 11:30:41 GMT
But MON has managed Stoke City far better than either of those pair of tits ever did. True. But it also suggests the problems always ran deeper than the manager and constantly blaming the manger for those deeper problems was missing the point. I rate O'Neill far more highly than Rowett and Jones and if their record at 2 very unfancied clubs is anything to go by he'd have had Wycombe chasing promotion. The situation we've got ourselves in over the last 4 or 5 years is the problem - not the current poor bastard dealing with the mess. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 23, 2021 11:34:05 GMT
It's completely meaningless in the grand scheme of things.......
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2021 11:37:45 GMT
Rowett is just doing the same job he's always done, he did it with us but did the same job as he does with not much of a budget on a massive budget.
Jones couldn't cope. If he didn't have a mental breakdown he was close to and it was hard to watch.
He couldn't and didn't cope with any aspect of managing us. It was just too big for him.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 23, 2021 11:40:57 GMT
The theory that the managers were somehow blameless patsies who fell victim to bigger picture problems falls down when you look at the various awful individual decisions both of them made.
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Post by LGH87 on Apr 23, 2021 11:46:57 GMT
I've decided the best approach to take now mentally and for my own well being is to remember that football is cyclical, we were crap for years, then we became quite good for a number of years, now we're crap again, hopefully the crap spell doesn't last too long this time.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2021 11:53:32 GMT
The theory that the managers were somehow blameless patsies who fell victim to bigger picture problems falls down when you look at the various awful individual decisions both of them made. Especially when (bar Jones who tried all sorts - too much) they've all tried the same thing and had the same issue. Not a one has addressed the issues we have on the pitch. Nothing to do with the way the club is run, just outright shit management. I'm sure they can't do any research on the people that came before them. And if they do they're thick. |
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Post by thevoid on Apr 23, 2021 12:14:41 GMT
So if Stoke were where Millwall are in the table would everyone be happy? That's not the point being made. Two smaller clubs with smaller budgets and two managers who struggled here doing relatively well. I'd imagine Luton fans are delirious with their current position given they were three divisions below us not that long ago. This club is toxic. I've worked in some pretty toxic places myself and the ambience soaks into the skin of the employees, management down. |
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Post by thevoid on Apr 23, 2021 12:18:35 GMT
View AttachmentSo here we are.... Below Rowett’s Millwall. Below Jones’ Luton. How do so many thrive after they leave. Does make you wonder if there is a systemic problem. Being on the same points as us or 1 place above us in the league is hardly thriving! If they are thriving, so are we! Context. Luton are thriving. They were a League 2 side not that long ago. Take the Premier League. Everton are 8th and thriving. Liverpool are 7th but by their standards are having a difficult time. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 23, 2021 12:22:23 GMT
So if Stoke were where Millwall are in the table would everyone be happy? That's not the point being made. Two smaller clubs with smaller budgets and two managers who struggled here doing relatively well. I'd imagine Luton fans are delirious with their current position given they were three divisions below us not that long ago. This club is toxic. I've worked in some pretty toxic places myself and the ambience soaks into the skin of the employees, management down. The 'ambience' didn't make Gary Rowett spunk £50m on dross though, did it? |
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Post by thevoid on Apr 23, 2021 12:26:34 GMT
That's not the point being made. Two smaller clubs with smaller budgets and two managers who struggled here doing relatively well. I'd imagine Luton fans are delirious with their current position given they were three divisions below us not that long ago. This club is toxic. I've worked in some pretty toxic places myself and the ambience soaks into the skin of the employees, management down. The 'ambience' didn't make Gary Rowett spunk £50m on dross though, did it? I didn't say it did. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 23, 2021 12:33:33 GMT
The 'ambience' didn't make Gary Rowett spunk £50m on dross though, did it? I didn't say it did. Fair enough. The point being made though seems to be that somehow the nasty toxic corrosive club corrupted two good managers. I really don't think that's the case. |
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 23, 2021 12:46:27 GMT
So if Stoke were where Millwall are in the table would everyone be happy? That's not the point being made. Two smaller clubs with smaller budgets and two managers who struggled here doing relatively well. I'd imagine Luton fans are delirious with their current position given they were three divisions below us not that long ago. This club is toxic. I've worked in some pretty toxic places myself and the ambience soaks into the skin of the employees, management down. I'd say in many ways Millwall and Luton are in much healthier position in the short term. They are not saddled with over-hyped players on huge contracts. It's a much easier job at those clubs in that respect. I have not yet heard anything that convinces me that the place is toxic, whatever that means. The club had a huge budget that was managed appallingly. They were simply bad decisions, at the time, no one knew they would be bad decisions, but they were. Rowett being the biggest culprit. The club put its faith in a man who made poor decisions. Everybody wanted it at the time. But it backfired. Any organisation will suffer if so much money is misspent and are then unable to address that through proper investment. I don't know what this 'toxic' even means, do you mean horrible people are running the club or what? A few days ago people were celebrating the fact that a club like Luton could work their way up the Leagues like they have, it happens good for them Not forgetting that there was a time when they bombed down the League as well. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 23, 2021 13:00:47 GMT
Being on the same points as us or 1 place above us in the league is hardly thriving! If they are thriving, so are we! Millwall and Luton are on a completely different budget to Stoke Their players wages could well in total , be less than Stoke spend on wages for players who don't even play for us , but are off doing their own thing in Germany or turkey or Derby or whatever They are spending massively less than Stoke and getting more points It's easy to say NJ is thicko , rowett is an idiot etc , but they can manage in the championship Granted they don't want to be at a club that spends a huge proportion of its budget on players , who don't want to play for Stoke , can't be arsed with Stoke and don't want to be here But Maybe MoN doesn't want that too Maybe nobody wants that , but it's just the reality of managing Stoke Is O'Neill spending any more than they are? Granted our budget has been significantly higher than those clubs in the past but is it really now? Also, it is worth bearing in mind that when we had a huge budget, that any half decent manager couldn't possibly have failed with compared with the rest of the division, the 2 managers were those described as "thriving" and you describe them as being "not idiots" and "can manage in the Championship". Sorry. I can't have it. If you want to blame anyone for the situation we are in now, look no further than messrs Rowett and Jones. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 23, 2021 13:11:00 GMT
The theory that the managers were somehow blameless patsies who fell victim to bigger picture problems falls down when you look at the various awful individual decisions both of them made. Both of them were backed to the hilt. Both of them failed dismally and set us back years in the process. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 23, 2021 13:16:28 GMT
Being on the same points as us or 1 place above us in the league is hardly thriving! If they are thriving, so are we! Context. Luton are thriving. They were a League 2 side not that long ago. Take the Premier League. Everton are 8th and thriving. Liverpool are 7th but by their standards are having a difficult time. What about the context that the two managers being lauded here are the ones most culpable for the mess we find ourselves in? I'll give you context. Gary Rowett came in with a huge budget, 100% backing of the owners and pretty much fell out with absolutely everyone at the club. Nathan Jones came in and had the backing of the owners, far more backing than his ability actually merited and proceeded to punch his chest after a 0-0 draw with Derby. If anything should have told anyone that he was the wrong man for the job, that particularly charade should have seen him sacked on the spot. MON may well go on to fail dismally but when he leaves, he will leave the club in a far better condition than the one he inherited. Of that I'm almost certain. He's a hell of a job on his hands. Criticising O'Neill whilst lauding Jones and fucking Rowett of all people is more than enough to finish me off. Some of you idiots need to get a grip! |
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Apr 23, 2021 14:17:21 GMT
I would'nt be suprised if they do it again next season.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Apr 23, 2021 14:19:31 GMT
I would'nt be suprised if they do it again next season. Maybe you could put some more stats together for us🤔but this time the correct ones🤣 |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2021 14:20:01 GMT
irrelevant if we finish above or below either.
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Post by thevoid on Apr 23, 2021 14:29:07 GMT
Context. Luton are thriving. They were a League 2 side not that long ago. Take the Premier League. Everton are 8th and thriving. Liverpool are 7th but by their standards are having a difficult time. What about the context that the two managers being lauded here are the ones most culpable for the mess we find ourselves in? I'll give you context. Gary Rowett came in with a huge budget, 100% backing of the owners and pretty much fell out with absolutely everyone at the club. Nathan Jones came in and had the backing of the owners, far more backing than his ability actually merited and proceeded to punch his chest after a 0-0 draw with Derby. If anything should have told anyone that he was the wrong man for the job, that particularly charade should have seen him sacked on the spot. MON may well go on to fail dismally but when he leaves, he will leave the club in a far better condition than the one he inherited. Of that I'm almost certain. He's a hell of a job on his hands. Criticising O'Neill whilst lauding Jones and fucking Rowett of all people is more than enough to finish me off. Some of you idiots need to get a grip! I haven't lauded Rowett or Jones. And please don't call me an idiot. |
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Post by davejohnno1 on Apr 23, 2021 15:09:59 GMT
What about the context that the two managers being lauded here are the ones most culpable for the mess we find ourselves in? I'll give you context. Gary Rowett came in with a huge budget, 100% backing of the owners and pretty much fell out with absolutely everyone at the club. Nathan Jones came in and had the backing of the owners, far more backing than his ability actually merited and proceeded to punch his chest after a 0-0 draw with Derby. If anything should have told anyone that he was the wrong man for the job, that particularly charade should have seen him sacked on the spot. MON may well go on to fail dismally but when he leaves, he will leave the club in a far better condition than the one he inherited. Of that I'm almost certain. He's a hell of a job on his hands. Criticising O'Neill whilst lauding Jones and fucking Rowett of all people is more than enough to finish me off. Some of you idiots need to get a grip! I haven't lauded Rowett or Jones. And please don't call me an idiot. If you've not lauded them you dont fall into the "some of you idiots" category so I haven't called you an idiot 👍 |
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Post by citynickscfc on Apr 23, 2021 17:14:50 GMT
View AttachmentSo here we are.... Below Rowett’s Millwall. Below Jones’ Luton. How do so many thrive after they leave. Does make you wonder if there is a systemic problem. Looks like we are finishing this season with a similar points total to last season? Ambition!! |
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