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Post by TheWiseMaster on Dec 6, 2007 19:02:15 GMT
Much noise has been made over the past few years by the big European clubs and their efforts to break away
I wonder if we would be better off without them. Let the (say) top 8 English clubs jump ship and join a European Super League of 60 clubs
Meanwhile the Premier clubs left behind rejoin the Football League
We then relaunch a revitalised Football League and slam the door shut on our departed brethren for all time
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Post by Kenilworth_Stokies on Dec 6, 2007 19:12:01 GMT
I was wondering that too actually. I'd love the Football League clubs to wave goodbye to the elite clubs, impose a wage cap and revert football to some semblance of financial stability (and a sport, not a gravy train).
Probably a pipe dream though, still too many greedy people after slices of the bloated pie.
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Post by eddyclamp on Dec 6, 2007 19:44:34 GMT
Yes we should.I don`t like the idea but money and greed talk at the top end.So cut them off and lets start having competition on a more even playing field.
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Post by daverichards on Dec 6, 2007 19:52:41 GMT
Fuck themselves ? Yes definatley
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Post by lordb on Dec 7, 2007 8:58:15 GMT
how would a league of 60 clubs work?
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Post by DansViews on Dec 7, 2007 9:42:36 GMT
Well it obviously would be split into divisions.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2007 10:10:27 GMT
For crying out loud what is up with you people? More mard arse whining just because we're not up there with the best.
Has there ever been a 'level playing field'? What happens if we lose the Arsenals, Man Us, Chelseas, Liverpools etc and Newcastle, Everton, Man City etc become the new giants in your cut down league?
Will you moan incessantly to get them removed as well?
Maybe you want to repeat the process until Stoke City become the leading side in the newly formed 12 team English league?
We wouldn't have the chance to see these teams play. We wouldn't have the chance to sneak a cheeky win and anybody who won anything would always know that they only won it because the 'real' top teams weren't taking part.
Removing the top teams simply highlights a defeatist attitude.
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Post by Godo on Dec 7, 2007 12:12:12 GMT
I think it is very likely that they will launch a Champions league equivalent of their own regardless of what we think.
The G 14 is actually 18 or 19 now isn't it and aren't they discussing making it 70+ at some talks they are having over the next few days? I suspect we won't be included!
Greed may be God but this God hasn't proven to very good at making decent England players. I'm fed up of the hype over the Premiership and England so I'd quite happily say goodbye to it all. So long as there's still promotion/relegation/cups then there will be excitement whether we are playing Scunthorpe or Blackburn.
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Post by lordb on Dec 7, 2007 13:10:03 GMT
60/70 teams over 3 divisions.
would the likes of Liverpool really want to play in division 2 or even 3 of a new Euro league?
dont think so.
wont happen.
UEFA will cave in & give them morev of what they want: ££££££
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Dec 7, 2007 13:46:13 GMT
All I can see that doing is driving the process faster where we see the death of clubs like Stoke leaving regional super clubs to play out on a European stage.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2007 15:46:55 GMT
All I can see that doing is driving the process faster where we see the death of clubs like Stoke leaving regional super clubs to play out on a European stage. Correct. The American model of sports is too have fewer BIG teams with much much smaller semi-pro or amateur teams (who are in essence feeder clubs and second teams of the big boys) ... To get around a host of employment and other laws, the whole thing is a franchise operation and so teams frequently do a Wimbledon and move house because the "grants" from local-councils (or the US equivalent) make it worthwhile. Every big city wants a good baseball, basketball and "football" team. Yes, OK, we'd all stay supporting little old Stoke and would possibly be watching a more successful team (though someone would still be bottom of Division 3). But think of the children. It's bad enough now, with just the Premier League, once there is a "World League" (which is what a Euro League would in effect be) how many seven year old lads would be supporting one of the little English clubs? Hardly any. We'd end up being the equivalent of current Non-League footie; and the local game would die over the course of ten years. Us old fogies might all remember what a glorious history Stoke v Blackburn has, but any self respecting 7 year old lad is only going to care how well Ronnie plays for Utd against the Real ... ah |
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Dec 7, 2007 15:50:15 GMT
Well we might not get a vote...
They have been discussing a Euro Super league split into three divisions and for the G14 etc it makes sense
We are never going to get near to the top of the Prem so a new format with the likes of Newcastle and Everton as top dogs makes sense
It would be far more competetive and even rejuvenate the lower clubs who are still there despite the hype
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Post by DansViews on Dec 7, 2007 15:51:39 GMT
AH, think its totally different in America to what it is here.
Im only 20, my brother is 14, I was bought up a stoke fan, my brother decided he would support Man u and he got a good telling off, and now he attends most stoke games.
Over in England football is alot more than just a baseball game, or basketball.. Football is a culture and a way of life.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2007 16:15:09 GMT
We definately won't get a vote that makes any difference TWM. We might get a vote in the "Should Euro League teams be allowed in the FA Cup?" question, but that will be about it ... Like forming the Premier League, if the deal suits them, they will go.
The only possible chance of this not happening, is England representation - Like Cricket did with the Packer League. If you tell players that an appearance in the Euro-League means no football for their country, then the league would be dead as fast as Packer's effort died. But you'd need a big pair to be telling the world's best players that they no longer got to play in the world cup. However, the men in suits at FIFA (and country FAs) may just get scared enough to make that statement ...
BeB: yeah, so even now your little brother took a bit of persuading. That will just be so much worse with a league that is marketed as having "all the best players in the world"; at best you would get kids supporting a Euro-League team and an English League team ... and as we know from all our "second teams" now; you might look out for the results and even go to the occasional match, but it's still "only" a second club.
Over ten years, you'd see the death of national leagues ... You'd be lucky to keep a top flight at all in England, if the Top-8 English teams left. No one will be watching Stoke v Watford on Sunday lunch this week, just as no one would want to watch Stoke v Blackburn when the players are only worth £500 a week, and the match reports don't start until 6 pages in from the back page of The-Times.
The magic of nogger was that your little club might/could win the biggest competitions (at least you might get a crack at beating Man U along the way) ... And those games were the ones shown live on the telly, about 3 games a year!! When there are no big competitions for you to enter then all the excitement will have gone. Look at the state of today's League Cup, that will be English Football if a big Euro-League opens up.
ah
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Dec 7, 2007 17:17:56 GMT
AH
Good point about the League Cup but what if the Blackburn game was a top of the (New Prem) table clash
Maybe the EEC will intervene if the G14 etc are seen to be killing off competition
It could be declared anti competetive and forced to hand over a massive chunk of its TV money making the local leagues relatively competetive
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2007 19:02:59 GMT
Whoever was the top of the table game in the English Division One, at 19:45 on a Thursday night; in a league where the reports started 6-pages back in The-Times (because of all the important Euro-League stuff that comes before it) no one will be watching.
At least, no one when compared to those watching the 4pm Sunday kickoff in the Euro-League.
And no "hype", means no interest for those who don't remember when Stoke v Blackburn was a big game.
ah
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Dec 8, 2007 10:07:07 GMT
Andy
A few possibilities for our European law makers to think about to stop the new league killing off football?
The Euro League could be forced to play on a Sunday leaving Saturday free for national football leagues
The standard of the national leagues would have to be maintained therefore money would have to be paid by the TV companies into a pot which would be divided between the two factions
Promotion and relegation? You could have the bottom half of the Euro league play off with the top clubs in the national leagues? Difficult as the number of relegated teams coming into each national league would be variable -- but not impossible to manage
It has been suggested that franchise clubs based in Ireland and the USA could play in the Euro league comprising 3 divisions of 20 teams
How would teams be chosen for the new league. Based on attendances? Taking 8 teams from England could still leave possibly teams like Man City, Newcastle, West Ham and Aston Villa on the outside
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2007 13:29:43 GMT
TWM, The Euro League could be forced to play on a Sunday leaving Saturday free for national football leagues I think there'd a be Euro-League game 5 nights, 2 evenings and 2 days every week of the 40 week season (plus cup/playoffs at the end). And the red button would let you watch any of the 6 or so played in each slot. The standard of the national leagues would have to be maintained therefore money would have to be paid by the TV companies into a pot which would be divided between the two factions The only way I can see of actually doing this would be to stipulate that X number of national team players (i.e. in starting eleven) are from home country AND home league. What you'd end up with would be worse national teams (hard to believe I know). There'll be a big pay difference for players between the Euro-League and National Leagues and "news" of National leagues would be relegated below Euro-League news ... So anyone who is any good at football will want to play in the Euro league. 60 teams with 30-man squads is 1800-players, plus the kids, that's a lot of good players. After ten years, the best players in the National Leagues would be same standard as the Championship is now. Promotion and relegation? You could have the bottom half of the Euro league play off with the top clubs in the national leagues? Difficult as the number of relegated teams coming into each national league would be variable -- but not impossible to manage I think the whole thing could be franchised ... that way they don't have to have promotion/relegation but they can kick a club out (for being rubbish/bankrupt etc) and sell the spot to another club. There is almost no chance of relegation or promotion as the gap between bottom of Euro and top of a national league would be huge (much more so than champ to premier, now) It has been suggested that franchise clubs based in Ireland and the USA could play in the Euro league comprising 3 divisions of 20 teams USA would not surprise me, Galaxy will never make it big over there on their own; if they could play in "the world league" every week, then they might start more interest in their own "semi-pro National League". How would teams be chosen for the new league. Based on attendances? Taking 8 teams from England could still leave possibly teams like Man City, Newcastle, West Ham and Aston Villa on the outside Pulling power. Worldwide fan base (current and historical), current player calibre, club-history (what won), previous success, owner-nationality, current wealth/finanical position, current-position in national leagues, ability to pay the franchise-joining-fee. If this is a Franchise operation, then you can offer this to anyone; you don't need eight English and six Italian, there's no need for those type of rules. And so you offer to the clubs who will make the franchise most money. The Chinese do not care whether they these WERE English, Italian or American teams ... Now they are "world league teams" ... The Chinese love THE PLAYERS (and their people owning a club helps a lot too) ... And it's "worldwide" where all the TV Advertising money and subscriptions can be made ... ... Just like I'm currently enjoying Villa Pompy (top goal Muntari!), via Bejing - now that is an effective Murdoch boycott! ;0) ah |
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Dec 8, 2007 14:40:19 GMT
Good post AH
The only obstacle to this this (possible) nightmare scenario would be the EEC and FIFA/EUEFA and none of those bodies have been particularly interested in football's welfare to date
Our biggest problem is that there are far more armchair football followers than actual football fans so any protest by said fans would have minimal impact
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