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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 28, 2020 13:12:37 GMT
He was a world class moaner to be fair. And the Global Ginger community owe him a massive debt for the selfless campaigning he did on their behalf. Couldn’t finish a bar of chocolate though. Was he a bad finisher? I recall a bad miss against Liverpool, what others am I forgetting? I’d always thought the problem was more that he wasn’t getting into good positions or really influencing games, and that Mama was a far better foil for Ric or Beattie. Kitson was a good striker and was on the brink of the England set up during his time with Reading in the Premier league. The whole thing with him at Stoke was a disaster, we saw quality players like Tuncay suffer a similar fate. When debating Kitson and Tuncay's ability, some often go for this "but they did fuck all after leaving Stoke so they must have been shit and Pulis was right". All sorts of reasons why that nonsense doesn't stand up. I always thought it was a shame that Kitson and Tuncay never got a proper run of games together along with Ric and Kitson/Tuncay... But with Pulis insisting on what can only be described as that deep lying defensive forward role.... He'd never do it. Big shame. I'll never forget the one game he played Tuncay and Ric up front (Wigan at home - he had no choice due to injuries), we scored two goals and looked lively whenever we went forward. It was never seen again! In terms of Kitson specifically, he was a brilliant finisher and would suggest taking a look at some of his goals at Reading. His goal for us away at Bolton was a textbook quality strikers finish. It was clear Kitson and Pulis despised each other, for whatever reason.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 28, 2020 13:24:00 GMT
Actually once Beattie was moved back into the same role Kitson was stuck with, the goals dried up and he was visibly unhappier. It's a bit simplistic to say 'a good player is a good player'. Players will play better in certain positions and certain systems. We didn't play to Kitson's strengths. It's on him to a degree but on us to a degree as well. As I recall, Beattie played the Mama role quite happily and his visible unhappiness had more to do with a knee injury that he was carrying that made him almost totally immobile. Not really. The bulk of his goals were actually scored leading the line with Mama behind him after Ric did his shoulder. He started the next season in the Mama role, started talking, seemingly jokingly, about ‘doing Ric’s running’ for him, and only scored about another two goals for the club, looking altogether less effective.
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 28, 2020 13:55:32 GMT
He was a world class moaner to be fair. And the Global Ginger community owe him a massive debt for the selfless campaigning he did on their behalf. Couldn’t finish a bar of chocolate though. Was he a bad finisher? I recall a bad miss against Liverpool, what others am I forgetting? I’d always thought the problem was more that he wasn’t getting into good positions or really influencing games, and that Mama was a far better foil for Ric or Beattie. My memory is a bit shit but I just remember everything about him was a bit meh. And for a player who had a reputation as a goalscorer I remember being very underwhelmed by him when he did get a chance. The far less heralded Jon Walters seemed like an upgrade on Kitson on every level but in particular as a finisher. That surprised me considering it was supposedly a strength of Kitson’s.
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 28, 2020 13:58:51 GMT
Was he a bad finisher? I recall a bad miss against Liverpool, what others am I forgetting? I’d always thought the problem was more that he wasn’t getting into good positions or really influencing games, and that Mama was a far better foil for Ric or Beattie. Kitson was a good striker and was on the brink of the England set up during his time with Reading in the Premier league. The whole thing with him at Stoke was a disaster, we saw quality players like Tuncay suffer a similar fate. When debating Kitson and Tuncay's ability, some often go for this "but they did fuck all after leaving Stoke so they must have been shit and Pulis was right". All sorts of reasons why that nonsense doesn't stand up. I always thought it was a shame that Kitson and Tuncay never got a proper run of games together along with Ric and Kitson/Tuncay... But with Pulis insisting on what can only be described as that deep lying defensive forward role.... He'd never do it. Big shame. I'll never forget the one game he played Tuncay and Ric up front (Wigan at home - he had no choice due to injuries), we scored two goals and looked lively whenever we went forward. It was never seen again! In terms of Kitson specifically, he was a brilliant finisher and would suggest taking a look at some of his goals at Reading. His goal for us away at Bolton was a textbook quality strikers finish. It was clear Kitson and Pulis despised each other, for whatever reason. It’s like old times!!! Tuncay. Far more likeable than Kitson (not difficult) but just like Dave he never really delivered. I don’t think Pulis helped either but I think there was much more to their respective failures than Tony sabotaging their careers. Namely, they just weren’t that good.
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Post by ParaPsych on Dec 28, 2020 15:10:52 GMT
As I recall, Beattie played the Mama role quite happily and his visible unhappiness had more to do with a knee injury that he was carrying that made him almost totally immobile. Not really. The bulk of his goals were actually scored leading the line with Mama behind him after Ric did his shoulder. He started the next season in the Mama role, started talking, seemingly jokingly, about ‘doing Ric’s running’ for him, and only scored about another two goals for the club, looking altogether less effective. I don't think that's correct. By my reckoning he scored 3 goals when Fuller wasn't on the pitch that season, 1 being a penalty. 4 with Fuller on the pitch.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 28, 2020 16:19:20 GMT
Not really. The bulk of his goals were actually scored leading the line with Mama behind him after Ric did his shoulder. He started the next season in the Mama role, started talking, seemingly jokingly, about ‘doing Ric’s running’ for him, and only scored about another two goals for the club, looking altogether less effective. I don't think that's correct. By my reckoning he scored 3 goals when Fuller wasn't on the pitch that season, 1 being a penalty. 4 with Fuller on the pitch. I stand corrected. Beattie very much a half-season wonder either way.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 28, 2020 16:52:20 GMT
Kitson was a good striker and was on the brink of the England set up during his time with Reading in the Premier league. The whole thing with him at Stoke was a disaster, we saw quality players like Tuncay suffer a similar fate. When debating Kitson and Tuncay's ability, some often go for this "but they did fuck all after leaving Stoke so they must have been shit and Pulis was right". All sorts of reasons why that nonsense doesn't stand up. I always thought it was a shame that Kitson and Tuncay never got a proper run of games together along with Ric and Kitson/Tuncay... But with Pulis insisting on what can only be described as that deep lying defensive forward role.... He'd never do it. Big shame. I'll never forget the one game he played Tuncay and Ric up front (Wigan at home - he had no choice due to injuries), we scored two goals and looked lively whenever we went forward. It was never seen again! In terms of Kitson specifically, he was a brilliant finisher and would suggest taking a look at some of his goals at Reading. His goal for us away at Bolton was a textbook quality strikers finish. It was clear Kitson and Pulis despised each other, for whatever reason. It’s like old times!!! Tuncay. Far more likeable than Kitson (not difficult) but just like Dave he never really delivered. I don’t think Pulis helped either but I think there was much more to their respective failures than Tony sabotaging their careers. Namely, they just weren’t that good. Another signing that was never suited to the football TP wanted to play. But hey glad we had Danny Pugh on the bench in cup final and not him.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 28, 2020 16:53:53 GMT
I don't think that's correct. By my reckoning he scored 3 goals when Fuller wasn't on the pitch that season, 1 being a penalty. 4 with Fuller on the pitch. I stand corrected. Beattie very much a half-season wonder either way. I remember watching the Castle Town friendly and you could tell him and Abdy were done. They were like old men and it never got better. But what a season/half season from them.
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Post by thevoid on Dec 28, 2020 18:32:08 GMT
Tuncay was treated appallingly by Pulis, including being subbed as a sub in one game. He scored some absolute belters, mainly off the bench, but he just didn't fit 'the cage' and was signed as a makeweight for getting Huth over the line (as Boro insisted we bought both)
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 28, 2020 19:01:03 GMT
Tuncay was treated appallingly by Pulis, including being subbed as a sub in one game. He scored some absolute belters, mainly off the bench, but he just didn't fit 'the cage' and was signed as a makeweight for getting Huth over the line (as Boro insisted we bought both) I think it was more just that Pulis had the chance to sign a ‘name’. Can’t see Boro as a newly relegated side having that level of leverage to make that kind of demand, essentially asking that we pay £11m for a centre half who’d only averaged about 17 appearances per season during his time there.
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Post by marylandstoke on Dec 28, 2020 19:02:35 GMT
Tuncay was treated appallingly by Pulis, including being subbed as a sub in one game. He scored some absolute belters, mainly off the bench, but he just didn't fit 'the cage' and was signed as a makeweight for getting Huth over the line (as Boro insisted we bought both) Roll up Roll up...... Buy one Tyrese Campbell and, today only ladies and gentlemen we throw in, free, your choice a milky Austrian Bauer* or, for those savoring something more substantial that can be enjoyed slowly, our WimmerKevin. *caution: may melt before season starts
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 29, 2020 12:04:26 GMT
Kitson was a good striker and was on the brink of the England set up during his time with Reading in the Premier league. The whole thing with him at Stoke was a disaster, we saw quality players like Tuncay suffer a similar fate. When debating Kitson and Tuncay's ability, some often go for this "but they did fuck all after leaving Stoke so they must have been shit and Pulis was right". All sorts of reasons why that nonsense doesn't stand up. I always thought it was a shame that Kitson and Tuncay never got a proper run of games together along with Ric and Kitson/Tuncay... But with Pulis insisting on what can only be described as that deep lying defensive forward role.... He'd never do it. Big shame. I'll never forget the one game he played Tuncay and Ric up front (Wigan at home - he had no choice due to injuries), we scored two goals and looked lively whenever we went forward. It was never seen again! In terms of Kitson specifically, he was a brilliant finisher and would suggest taking a look at some of his goals at Reading. His goal for us away at Bolton was a textbook quality strikers finish. It was clear Kitson and Pulis despised each other, for whatever reason. It’s like old times!!! Tuncay. Far more likeable than Kitson (not difficult) but just like Dave he never really delivered. I don’t think Pulis helped either but I think there was much more to their respective failures than Tony sabotaging their careers. Namely, they just weren’t that good. Indeed Agreed that it never happened for them and Kitson was given more of a chance than the magical Turk but ultimately neither were likely to succeed in such an oppressive set up (on and off the pitch). I'd argue that a guy who scored champions league hatricks for fun and single handedly carried a fairly hapless Turkey side to the Euro 2008 semi final must have had a fair amount of ability but hey ☺️
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Dec 29, 2020 12:20:46 GMT
Methinks Kitson would have a done a better job for us if Hughes had been our manager at the time.
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 29, 2020 14:30:47 GMT
Kitson was a good striker and was on the brink of the England set up during his time with Reading in the Premier league. The whole thing with him at Stoke was a disaster, we saw quality players like Tuncay suffer a similar fate. When debating Kitson and Tuncay's ability, some often go for this "but they did fuck all after leaving Stoke so they must have been shit and Pulis was right". All sorts of reasons why that nonsense doesn't stand up. I always thought it was a shame that Kitson and Tuncay never got a proper run of games together along with Ric and Kitson/Tuncay... But with Pulis insisting on what can only be described as that deep lying defensive forward role.... He'd never do it. Big shame. I'll never forget the one game he played Tuncay and Ric up front (Wigan at home - he had no choice due to injuries), we scored two goals and looked lively whenever we went forward. It was never seen again! In terms of Kitson specifically, he was a brilliant finisher and would suggest taking a look at some of his goals at Reading. His goal for us away at Bolton was a textbook quality strikers finish. It was clear Kitson and Pulis despised each other, for whatever reason. It’s like old times!!! Tuncay. Far more likeable than Kitson (not difficult) but just like Dave he never really delivered. I don’t think Pulis helped either but I think there was much more to their respective failures than Tony sabotaging their careers. Namely, they just weren’t that good. I can't see how Tuncay "never delivered" or was a failure. Given scant opportunity, sub all the time, played on the wing... under the circumstances he did brilliantly when he played, scored a few goals and offered us something radically different. If TP had taken it seriously and been a bit more adaptable I don't see why he couldn't have succeeded Ric as the spark his team needed to be bearable to watch. He might have even been able to hang on to his job a bit longer if he had.
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Post by foxysgloves on Dec 29, 2020 14:36:02 GMT
It’s like old times!!! Tuncay. Far more likeable than Kitson (not difficult) but just like Dave he never really delivered. I don’t think Pulis helped either but I think there was much more to their respective failures than Tony sabotaging their careers. Namely, they just weren’t that good. I can't see how Tuncay "never delivered" or was a failure. Given scant opportunity, sub all the time, played on the wing... under the circumstances he did brilliantly when he played, scored a few goals and offered us something radically different. If TP had taken it seriously and been a bit more adaptable I don't see why he couldn't have succeeded Ric as the spark his team needed to be bearable to watch. He might have even been able to hang on to his job a bit longer if he had. On his day Tuncay was brilliant. He just didn’t seem to have that many days for us. I’ve no doubt Pulis didn’t do him any favours and he didn’t get the best out of him. But I also think Tuncay just wasn’t able to deliver consistently enough to be as central to us as Ric was.
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Post by PotterLog on Dec 29, 2020 14:46:20 GMT
I can't see how Tuncay "never delivered" or was a failure. Given scant opportunity, sub all the time, played on the wing... under the circumstances he did brilliantly when he played, scored a few goals and offered us something radically different. If TP had taken it seriously and been a bit more adaptable I don't see why he couldn't have succeeded Ric as the spark his team needed to be bearable to watch. He might have even been able to hang on to his job a bit longer if he had. On his day Tuncay was brilliant. He just didn’t seem to have that many days for us. I’ve no doubt Pulis didn’t do him any favours and he didn’t get the best out of him. But I also think Tuncay just wasn’t able to deliver consistently enough to be as central to us as Ric was. You need a bit of a run in the team in a position you're comfortable with to develop consistency though. He'd been brilliant at Boro and I think got POTS in his last season so it's not like he wasn't capable of it.
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Post by citynickscfc on Dec 29, 2020 15:09:03 GMT
On his day Tuncay was brilliant. He just didn’t seem to have that many days for us. I’ve no doubt Pulis didn’t do him any favours and he didn’t get the best out of him. But I also think Tuncay just wasn’t able to deliver consistently enough to be as central to us as Ric was. You need a bit of a run in the team in a position you're comfortable with to develop consistency though. He'd been brilliant at Boro and I think got POTS in his last season so it's not like he wasn't capable of it. I know it's a bit of an odd comparison, but with Powell playing rw or lw rather often, who would you rather have there? We all seem to like Powell, but as creative as Tuncay? I'm doubtful. Certainly a lot less successful. I really thought Tuncay was brilliant and he just never got much of a chance. Even though his disk with us was rather brief I still have a lot of fond memories. Compare that to so many after him. He was much more suited then Kitson due to the creativity and width (channels), different player entirely tho. But if we must compare, he was much better than either.
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Post by bloodtypered on Dec 29, 2020 22:11:40 GMT
Just watched an interview with him on YouTube, seems quite an honest guy. He talked a lot about his time with us and the training and drills with Pulis and Peter Reid, sounds like it was dinosaur stuff especially Reid with his 80s drills. It’s sounds like he’s had bad luck with all his clubs apart from Reading and Sheffield Utd, sounds like Pulis had it in for him from day one. I know a lot will disagree but I feel a sorry for him as you don’t become crap over night, especially after his Reading form. Pulis knew how to ruin someone’s career, did it to a few at Stoke. Thats what didnt like about Pulis... he held grudges and wasnt a good people person, with players that needed the best bringing out of them....instead of creating a bad dressing room
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