Football without Heading

[Deleted]

2030, the year of no heading and no tackling.

Football will be a contactless sport akin to Basketball, played over four quarters of 20 minutes each. Rolling subs, and kick-in’s rather than throw-in’s.

Just what the USA wanted all along.

[claymore]

Dec 24, 2020 21:56:17 GMT maninasuitcase said:

Gaelic football here we come then.
No heading but lots of handling instead.
Ideal for us as the amount of shots over the bar would actual count as points in the game as well.

Now your talking, proper sport that, love it.🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪

[spiderpuss]

Watching a rerun of Arse Vs Citeh last night, and it was very noticeable how few headers were attempted. I'm not sure if both sets of coaches are against them, they obviously worked together. However when a header seemed the likely choice the player instead took it down on a boot or a chest. You can see it happening at the top level, at the kick and rush level maybe less so unless legislation is made.

[Deleted]

Shirley, a better idea would be to just switch to those 99p flyaway balls you get from the seaside? The best players could practice putting ridiculous amounts of swazz on their shots.

One of Fletcher's headers might go in!!

[henry]

Might not be a bad idea at lads n dads and youth level to discourage heading.

[supersimonstainrod]

From 2018:

www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/fifa-cte-problem-soccer-regulators-prevent-brain-injuries-697834/

[shooters]

Dec 25, 2020 12:11:30 GMT @cornedbeeflegs said:

Shirley, a better idea would be to just switch to those 99p flyaway balls you get from the seaside? The best players could practice putting ridiculous amounts of swazz on their shots.

One of Fletcher's headers might go in!!

Scored some amazing goals with those seaside balls much better than Roberto Carlos one for Brazil v France. Cinecam does n't quite do it justice. Wind at the bet 365 would be an additional test of skill and power for a cross from the touch line for Fletcher to then head it in.

[swampmongrel]

Dec 25, 2020 0:23:18 GMT jesusmcmuffin said:

Dec 25, 2020 0:12:46 GMT Gods said:

I'm with you, I don't want to see it banned, just trying to anticipate how this one could play out in the fullness of time.

Can see headwear coming in...awould upset the Alice band brigade

Could you make a head guard the shape of a fifty pence piece?

To fit in Danny Batth’s bonce.

[Deleted]

I truly don’t believe that what applied in football 30-40 years ago have a role in today’s game. There is much less overall contact, players are much more protected. Balls are also a hell of a lot more light.

It’s very hard to prove that an increase in heading is the reason behind an increase in the risk of dementia 30 years down the line. There’s likely too few cases and samples for it to be anything meaningful. Occupation based epidemiology is often as weakly powered as cluster analysis.

However, it sells a nice story for the media and it’s provocative enough of a concept for it to be published by decent journals even if the analysis is weak.

I’d be surprised if the hazards ratios were ever so high and tight for the data to be convincing. With that, I can’t see how FIFA would completely change the sport. At most, I could see it coming with a warning that players should understand potential risks before playing.

[Deleted]

Non gender , vegan footballers with rainbow protective hats who are not allowed to celebrate goals for fear of upsetting the other team is the future

[borat]

Football without heading is like sex without a penis, pointless.

[maxplonk]

Dec 24, 2020 21:51:35 GMT salopstick said:

The balls may be lighter but they travel much faster. I’ve read they may do as much damage as the old leather balls

I think this is the current scientific opinion.

[Deleted]

Dec 25, 2020 20:33:17 GMT maxplonk said:

Dec 24, 2020 21:51:35 GMT salopstick said:

The balls may be lighter but they travel much faster. I’ve read they may do as much damage as the old leather balls

I think this is the current scientific opinion.

How many thousands of people play football every day? Is like banning driving because you might have an accident.

[maxplonk]

Dec 25, 2020 20:40:07 GMT jesusmcmuffin said:

Dec 25, 2020 20:33:17 GMT maxplonk said:

I think this is the current scientific opinion.

How many thousands of people play football every day? Is like banning driving because you might have an accident.

I am not taking a position on this. Merely pointing out that the current understanding seems to be that slower heavier balls and lighter faster balls can transfer similar amounts of energy to the human head.

(PS After 3 strong beers and a very large Ardbeg, it's not easy to write this.)

[cheekymatt71]

Take cricket and remove the possibility of bouncers above shoulder height

Take rugby and remove tackling for fear of head injuries

Take football and remove headers


Sorry but its so much an essense of the sport. Taking away all these dangers will make the sport much less thrilling and watchable.

By all means introduce protection or headwear if possible (See the halo in F1 has been a success). But you cant fundamentally CHANGE the sport.

[Deleted]

I just read sugar Ray Leonard's autobiography

He fought Roberto Duran , twice .

Before the first match , people were telling him , that Roberto Duran is the only boxer they have seen who speed punches the heavy bag in the gym with his head as well as his fists

He laughed , until he fought him and Duran destroyed him with his fists and his head

Second match , Sugar Ray came back to out-box and defeat a ferocious opponent .Which is the mark of a true champion.

I can't Imagine robeto Duran ( or sugar Ray Leonard) being particularly fussed about heading a modern day football .

[LL Cool Dave]

They'd have to ban boxing first

Neither will happen.

[kjpt140v]

Dec 24, 2020 15:40:07 GMT spitthedog said:

It seems a distinct possibility. I'm just trying to imagine how it might change the way the game is played. End of hoof ball? Will have a massive impact on corners I imagine. will heading be an offence in all scenarios? Players sent off for intentionally heading the ball? What happens when a free kick outside the box is hit full pelt at head height?

On the upside could spell the end of Danny Baath's aimless high punts upfield. Not that they go anywhere near anyone's head anyway.

One of my complaints over many years is all Stoke players seem to head the ball aimlessly unless attempting to score.

As far as not heading the ball is concerned it will improve players skills with the ball at their feet but heading is a vital part of the game,I can't see it being banned for adults. Maybe somebody will come up with a protective headband or change the design of the ball. I can understand Astle, Stiles and Charlton suffering damage because of the weight and materials of the ball in their time but how many players who began their careers in the last twenty years will suffer a similar fate. I don't know but it would be interesting to see some stats. Happy New Year, stay safe. X

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2020 11:16:05 GMT @kingsman said:

I just read sugar Ray Leonard's autobiography

He fought Roberto Duran , twice .

Before the first match , people were telling him , that Roberto Duran is the only boxer they have seen who speed punches the heavy bag in the gym with his head as well as his fists

He laughed , until he fought him and Duran destroyed him with his fists and his head

Second match , Sugar Ray came back to out-box and defeat a ferocious opponent .Which is the mark of a true champion.

I can't Imagine robeto Duran ( or sugar Ray Leonard) being particularly fussed about heading a modern day football .

Duran my fave boxer of all time. Got a pair of his shorts from a signing in Atlantic City, he took to public appearances and signings and meaningless fights after his career ended. A friend of mine fought in the Olympics and got to meet some of the greats. Golden era of
If boxing

[stroller]

I imagine some sort of head guard being developed that limits the impact effect when heading the ball.

[kjpt140v]

Dec 26, 2020 11:16:05 GMT @kingsman said:

I just read sugar Ray Leonard's autobiography

He fought Roberto Duran , twice .

Before the first match , people were telling him , that Roberto Duran is the only boxer they have seen who speed punches the heavy bag in the gym with his head as well as his fists

He laughed , until he fought him and Duran destroyed him with his fists and his head

Second match , Sugar Ray came back to out-box and defeat a ferocious opponent .Which is the mark of a true champion.

I can't Imagine robeto Duran ( or sugar Ray Leonard) being particularly fussed about heading a modern day football .

That's not the point is it. Maybe you should watch or listen to a few interviews with retired boxers then ask yourself if they're some sort of brain damage.

traumaticbraininjury.net/2013/01/14/boxers-and-brain-injuries-a-scary-study/

[Deleted]

Dec 26, 2020 17:28:02 GMT kjpt140v said:

Dec 26, 2020 11:16:05 GMT @kingsman said:

I just read sugar Ray Leonard's autobiography

He fought Roberto Duran , twice .

Before the first match , people were telling him , that Roberto Duran is the only boxer they have seen who speed punches the heavy bag in the gym with his head as well as his fists

He laughed , until he fought him and Duran destroyed him with his fists and his head

Second match , Sugar Ray came back to out-box and defeat a ferocious opponent .Which is the mark of a true champion.

I can't Imagine robeto Duran ( or sugar Ray Leonard) being particularly fussed about heading a modern day football .

That's not the point is it. Maybe you should watch or listen to a few interviews with retired boxers then ask yourself if they're some sort of brain damage.

traumaticbraininjury.net/2013/01/14/boxers-and-brain-injuries-a-scary-study/

No , my point is there are far more dangerous sports than football when it comes to the potential for head injuries...including boxing and rugby

But if say sugar Ray Leonard or Anthony Joshua decide they want to be a boxer than that's what they are going to do .If they want to take the risk , they can make an adult decision to do so .

It's not necessary to ban boxing , ban rugby , change the rules for football etc

Anthony Joshua can decide to be a boxer , Billy vunipola can decide to be a rugby player .Ty Campbell can decide to be a footballer

I could possibly trip over a paving slab and bang my head but that doesn't mean I can't make an adult decision to take the risk and walk along the pavement if that's what I want to do.

[Deleted]

Dec 25, 2020 10:15:38 GMT claymore said:

Dec 24, 2020 21:56:17 GMT maninasuitcase said:

Gaelic football here we come then.
No heading but lots of handling instead.
Ideal for us as the amount of shots over the bar would actual count as points in the game as well.

Now your talking, proper sport that, love it.🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪🇮🇪

I remember the pub by Brentford giving me a free pint when could name all the GAA shirts on the wall. My fave away pub after that

[kjpt140v]

Dec 26, 2020 22:22:10 GMT @kingsman said:

Dec 26, 2020 17:28:02 GMT kjpt140v said:

That's not the point is it. Maybe you should watch or listen to a few interviews with retired boxers then ask yourself if they're some sort of brain damage.

traumaticbraininjury.net/2013/01/14/boxers-and-brain-injuries-a-scary-study/

No , my point is there are far more dangerous sports than football when it comes to the potential for head injuries...including boxing and rugby

But if say sugar Ray Leonard or Anthony Joshua decide they want to be a boxer than that's what they are going to do .If they want to take the risk , they can make an adult decision to do so .

It's not necessary to ban boxing , ban rugby , change the rules for football etc

Anthony Joshua can decide to be a boxer , Billy vunipola can decide to be a rugby player .Ty Campbell can decide to be a footballer

I could possibly trip over a paving slab and bang my head but that doesn't mean I can't make an adult decision to take the risk and walk along the pavement if that's what I want to do.

No you don't get the point and actually you were discussing two boxers who didn't get brain damage even though they received powerful blows to the head. The point is that the FIFA own the rules they can do what they wish. Players heading the ball historically did not know they may suffer head injuries, boxers etc very likely did. If football was to ban heading who is to say they are wrong to do so. Your pavement scenario is just plain silly.

[Goonie]

Do boxers suffer from the same longterm neurological problems?

www.livescience.com/1519-boxing-brain-damage.html

It seems so yes. Do 'they' wish to bab boxing? Yes the BMA do - but why not ban horse riding or cycling s they also carry risks of injury or brain damage. Or alcohol which prolonged heavy use can lead to a whole range of social, psychological, physical and neurological conditions? If that's the case all sports need to be banned!

'Sports injuries
According to the National Safety Council (NSC), in 2019 exercise, with or without exercise equipment, accounted for about 468,000 injuries, the most of any category of sports and recreation. Bicycling followed with about 417,000 injuries, while basketball with 404,000 injuries, and football, with 292,000 injuries, ranked third and fourth.

Concern is growing about the risks of sports-related concussions as lawsuits filed by injured professional football players have generated national headlines. The problem also affects thousands of young people who engage in a variety of sports. According to the NSC, being struck by another person or object is the leading cause of unintentional injury for teens and young adults ages 15 to 24. Sports-related concussions are a significant factor. The Brain Injury Research Institute estimates that 1.6 million to 3.8 million athletes annually suffer concussion. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports that in 2016, an estimated 273,272 children (age 17 or younger) were treated in U.S. emergency departments (EDs) for nonfatal traumatic brain injuries (TBIs) related to sports and recreation. The 2016 number is down 9.8 percent from a peak of 302,966 in 2012, possibly due to prevention efforts, changes in participation and changes in how care is sought for injured children. In the years from 2010 to 2016, the CDC reports that TBIs that occurred in contact sports accounted for approximately 45 percent of all sports and recreation-related TBI ED visits. Activities associated with the highest number of ED visits were football, bicycling, basketball, playground activities and soccer.

The NSC reports that there were about 191,000 swimming injuries treated in EDs in 2019, with children between the ages of five and 14 suffering about half of all injuries. A report by the Consumer Product Safety Commission found that between 2017 and 2019, 76 percent of children treated in EDs for pool related nonfatal drowning injuries were younger than five years of age.


Sports Injuries By Number Of Injuries, 2019


Number of injuries by age
Sport, activity or equipment Injuries (1) Younger than 5 5 to 14 15 to 24 25 to 64 65 and older
Exercise, exercise equipment 468,315 6,266 46,926 87,189 250,747 77,187
Bicycles and accessories 417,485 12,691 113,445 58,072 191,049 42,228
Basketball 403,980 1,250 139,733 185,316 76,066 1,615
Football 292,306 429 149,149 116,946 25,131 651
Playground equipment 222,527 54,372 148,577 7,256 10,376 1,946
ATV's, mopeds, minibikes, etc. 201,847 4,407 37,831 51,686 89,833 18,090
Swimming, pools, equipment 190,743 21,811 77,296 31,309 47,457 12,871
Soccer 188,336 2,060 84,938 71,030 29,569 739
Baseball, softball 157,164 2,380 65,058 48,188 38,211 3,327
Skateboards 148,921 2,837 46,071 51,864 44,891 3,257
Trampolines 123,029 23,979 74,378 12,711 11,625 336
Lacrosse, rugby, misc. ball games 74,326 163 28,310 22,613 13,371 9,869
Skating (excl. In-line) 67,008 833 31,293 12,980 20,611 1,291
Fishing 61,932 1,926 11,987 9,542 31,028 7,449
Volleyball 51,455 32 18,479 22,652 9,674 618
Horseback riding 43,469 963 8,200 9,650 20,563 4,093
Hockey 36,885 200 12,268 14,951 9,060 407
Track and field activities, equipment 28,048 0 11,287 12,274 4,189 298
Martial arts 27,008 288 7,720 6,868 11,583 549
Racquet sports 25,844 250 3,408 4,091 9,229 8,867
Beach, picnic, camping equipment 25,728 2,803 4,391 2,526 11,797 4,212
Water skiing, tubing, surfing 18,143 98 2,186 5,932 9,389 538
Bowling 16,615 938 1,293 2,478 7,762 4,145
Boxing 16,071 23 2,001 7,000 6,976 71
Nonpowder guns, BB'S, pellets 11,995 369 3,583 4,052 3,460 530
Toboggans, sleds, snow discs, etc. 10,661 942 4,950 1,255 3,398 115
(1) Treated in hospital emergency departments.

Source: National Safety Council analysis of U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission NEISS data. National Safety Council. Injury Facts®.'

Everything carries a risk and so participants should be made aware of said risks and be allowed to choose whether they wish to accept that risk or not


In fact lying in bed carries a risk:

Your Chances of Dying By Sport and ActivitySource: tgr.scdn2.secure.raxcdn.com/images/wysiwyg/_article/chances-of-dying.jpg

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2020 0:22:26 GMT kjpt140v said:

Dec 26, 2020 22:22:10 GMT @kingsman said:

No , my point is there are far more dangerous sports than football when it comes to the potential for head injuries...including boxing and rugby

But if say sugar Ray Leonard or Anthony Joshua decide they want to be a boxer than that's what they are going to do .If they want to take the risk , they can make an adult decision to do so .

It's not necessary to ban boxing , ban rugby , change the rules for football etc

Anthony Joshua can decide to be a boxer , Billy vunipola can decide to be a rugby player .Ty Campbell can decide to be a footballer

I could possibly trip over a paving slab and bang my head but that doesn't mean I can't make an adult decision to take the risk and walk along the pavement if that's what I want to do.

No you don't get the point and actually you were discussing two boxers who didn't get brain damage even though they received powerful blows to the head. The point is that the FIFA own the rules they can do what they wish. Players heading the ball historically did not know they may suffer head injuries, boxers etc very likely did. If football was to ban heading who is to say they are wrong to do so. Your pavement scenario is just plain silly.

It's not silly ,it's an example of how you can go round banning everything if you don't have some sort of perspective ,

Freddie Flintoff was saying he played for England at cricket more than once as the only player who didn't go to public school or grammar school ...that's rediculous .. it's because someone is going round state schools banning kids from playing cricket ... health and safety blah blah

I work in hospital and every year the amount of kids going to A and E with a broken arm or broken wrist Is going down and down ... because someone is going round the playground banning kids from playing football or climbing a tree or playing British bulldog...they might fall and hurt themselves etc ..health and safety

Where are we going with all this ?...if you ban them from cricket , playing bulldog or tag in the playground , can't head the ball , can't play rugby , can't box , get mum and dad to drive them to school rather than walk etc etc

We will just end up with a load of fat kids sat in front of a computer all day. How is that possibly healthier than playing cricket , boxing , football etc

Every sport has some sort of danger but it is a massive improvement for kids mental and physical well being to be encouraged to give it a go , than being told you can't do this or that , health and safety blah blah

My son boxes and he knows the risks but wants to box . The end

My other son , played semi pro football till 23 and knew the risks but wanted to play .The end .

If Danny Batth wants to head the ball he will .

It's incredibly patronising to say Batth soutter Fletcher etc are so thick they don't know the risks in playing football.

They do and they want to play anyway . So they will

Thats all there is to it

Some people are not going to let others ,tell them they can't do this and that .

If Freddie Flintoff wants to spend his afternoon facing an Aussie fast bowling attack he will. And no , he is not so thick , he doesn't understand the risks of spending an afternoon facing an Aussie fast bowling attack .He knows the risks but that's what he wants to do

Good for him and everyone like him

They make the world a better place

[kjpt140v]

Dec 27, 2020 8:53:32 GMT @kingsman said:

Dec 27, 2020 0:22:26 GMT kjpt140v said:

No you don't get the point and actually you were discussing two boxers who didn't get brain damage even though they received powerful blows to the head. The point is that the FIFA own the rules they can do what they wish. Players heading the ball historically did not know they may suffer head injuries, boxers etc very likely did. If football was to ban heading who is to say they are wrong to do so. Your pavement scenario is just plain silly.

It's not silly ,it's an example of how you can go round banning everything if you don't have some sort of perspective ,

Freddie Flintoff was saying he played for England at cricket more than once as the only player who didn't go to public school or grammar school ...that's rediculous .. it's because someone is going round state schools banning kids from playing cricket ... health and safety blah blah

I work in hospital and every year the amount of kids going to A and E with a broken arm or broken wrist Is going down and down ... because someone is going round the playground banning kids from playing football or climbing a tree or playing British bulldog...they might fall and hurt themselves etc ..health and safety

Where are we going with all this ?...if you ban them from cricket , playing bulldog or tag in the playground , can't head the ball , can't play rugby , can't box , get mum and dad to drive them to school rather than walk etc etc

We will just end up with a load of fat kids sat in front of a computer all day. How is that possibly healthier than playing cricket , boxing , football etc

Every sport has some sort of danger but it is a massive improvement for kids mental and physical well being to be encouraged to give it a go , than being told you can't do this or that , health and safety blah blah

My son boxes and he knows the risks but wants to box . The end

My other son , played semi pro football till 23 and knew the risks but wanted to play .The end .

If Danny Batth wants to head the ball he will .

It's incredibly patronising to say Batth soutter Fletcher etc are so thick they don't know the risks in playing football.

They do and they want to play anyway . So they will

Thats all there is to it

Some people are not going to let others ,tell them they can't do this and that .

If Freddie Flintoff wants to spend his afternoon facing an Aussie fast bowling attack he will. And no , he is not so thick , he doesn't understand the risks of spending an afternoon facing an Aussie fast bowling attack .He knows the risks but that's what he wants to do

Good for him and everyone like him

They make the world a better place

I think you've lost the plot where did I say Batth etc are so thick they don't know the risks?

[Deleted]

Dec 27, 2020 11:14:57 GMT kjpt140v said:

Dec 27, 2020 8:53:32 GMT @kingsman said:

It's not silly ,it's an example of how you can go round banning everything if you don't have some sort of perspective ,

Freddie Flintoff was saying he played for England at cricket more than once as the only player who didn't go to public school or grammar school ...that's rediculous .. it's because someone is going round state schools banning kids from playing cricket ... health and safety blah blah

I work in hospital and every year the amount of kids going to A and E with a broken arm or broken wrist Is going down and down ... because someone is going round the playground banning kids from playing football or climbing a tree or playing British bulldog...they might fall and hurt themselves etc ..health and safety

Where are we going with all this ?...if you ban them from cricket , playing bulldog or tag in the playground , can't head the ball , can't play rugby , can't box , get mum and dad to drive them to school rather than walk etc etc

We will just end up with a load of fat kids sat in front of a computer all day. How is that possibly healthier than playing cricket , boxing , football etc

Every sport has some sort of danger but it is a massive improvement for kids mental and physical well being to be encouraged to give it a go , than being told you can't do this or that , health and safety blah blah

My son boxes and he knows the risks but wants to box . The end

My other son , played semi pro football till 23 and knew the risks but wanted to play .The end .

If Danny Batth wants to head the ball he will .

It's incredibly patronising to say Batth soutter Fletcher etc are so thick they don't know the risks in playing football.

They do and they want to play anyway . So they will

Thats all there is to it

Some people are not going to let others ,tell them they can't do this and that .

If Freddie Flintoff wants to spend his afternoon facing an Aussie fast bowling attack he will. And no , he is not so thick , he doesn't understand the risks of spending an afternoon facing an Aussie fast bowling attack .He knows the risks but that's what he wants to do

Good for him and everyone like him

They make the world a better place

I think you've lost the plot where did I say Batth etc are so thick they don't know the risks?

I agree .
You never personally said that and you are in no way responsible for the notion that footballers should be banned from heading the ball and kids should be lead to believe ( by their school ) that sports such as football , hockey , cricket , rugby and boxing are dangerous.

I think schools are wrong to do that and it won't help our obesity crisis .

I also think that Danny baath can make up his own mind whether he wants to head a football

Anthony Joshua can Decide to get in to a boxing match with Tyson fury , if that's what he wants to do

And AP McCoy can spend his working life jumping massive fences on a horse at aintree if he feels like it

That's my opinion .

Nothing to do with you

[kjpt140v]

Dec 27, 2020 14:22:54 GMT @kingsman said:

Dec 27, 2020 11:14:57 GMT kjpt140v said:

I think you've lost the plot where did I say Batth etc are so thick they don't know the risks?

I agree .
You never personally said that and you are in no way responsible for the notion that footballers should be banned from heading the ball and kids should be lead to believe ( by their school ) that sports such as football , hockey , cricket , rugby and boxing are dangerous.

I think schools are wrong to do that and it won't help our obesity crisis .

I also think that Danny baath can make up his own mind whether he wants to head a football

Anthony Joshua can Decide to get in to a boxing match with Tyson fury , if that's what he wants to do

And AP McCoy can spend his working life jumping massive fences on a horse at aintree if he feels like it

That's my opinion .

Nothing to do with you

Definitely lost the plot.