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Sam Vokes
Dec 13, 2020 16:46:34 GMT
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Post by mickstupp on Dec 13, 2020 16:46:34 GMT
We wouldn’t bring in a new manager and go over his head with a £7 million signing. In one of his first interviews, Jones clearly stated that he felt we needed a “target man” up front. Out of the options presented to him, it was Jones that chose Vokes. If he did pick him he's an even worse manager than I thought, Vokes was never suited to any formation that Jones chose to play, it would be madness to waste that amount of your employers money on a player that you would know does not fit into any plan you had. Who else would have signed him? He was Jones’ pick and he told us this at the time. Same goes with Batth who signed in the same window.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 13, 2020 16:47:19 GMT
Yes. Toney went to Brentford for £5m over the summer I think. Che Adams was one we spoke about and he’s been a revelation at Southampton. Exactly it’s a bone idle process when votes is the best pick you’ve just picked two better by any measure without watching either 25 times Where was the due diligence carried out on yet another waste of money and resources, who sorts the terms and conditions of these over priced over payed players we have been collecting for a number of years all on long contracts all with no resale value, it's the economics of a mad house.
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Post by loosestools on Dec 13, 2020 16:51:31 GMT
Exactly it’s a bone idle process when votes is the best pick you’ve just picked two better by any measure without watching either 25 times Where was the due diligence carried out on yet another waste of money and resources, who sorts the terms and conditions of these over priced over payed players we have been collecting for a number of years all on long contracts all with no resale value, it's the economics of a mad house. Strange that they are both Welsh isn't it?
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 13, 2020 16:51:57 GMT
If he did pick him he's an even worse manager than I thought, Vokes was never suited to any formation that Jones chose to play, it would be madness to waste that amount of your employers money on a player that you would know does not fit into any plan you had. Who else would have signed him? He was Jones’ pick and he told us this at the time. Same goes with Batth who signed in the same window. Tony Pulis also stated that he was responsible for all the signings while he was at the Club ! Brek Shea really who signed and Etebo. Jones stated that he would be signing young, hungry, fast, athletic players then he signs Vokes, Batth and Stephen frigging Ward, I smell a rat a slimy rat.
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Sam Vokes
Dec 13, 2020 17:28:55 GMT
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Dec 13, 2020 17:28:55 GMT
It makes you weep, when you realise how much money we are pissing up the wall on the likes of Vokes, Ince etc.
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Post by xchpotter on Dec 13, 2020 17:39:16 GMT
At the very least he should be a great big lump of trouble to come on in the last ten minutes, if nothing else to demoralise the opposition, back into defenders, break up play, defend the box at set pieces etc For £9 you would expect no less To see that this isnt even an option for MON, speaks volumes I think for £9 we got exactly what you would expect for that amount. Unfortunately it was a £9 million package which is the problem.😂😂
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Sam Vokes
Dec 13, 2020 18:02:09 GMT
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 13, 2020 18:02:09 GMT
Exactly it’s a bone idle process when votes is the best pick you’ve just picked two better by any measure without watching either 25 times We don’t know if either player would have wanted to come to us though. For all we know we could have been after both of them. Of course we don’t bit that doesn’t excuse the daft we signed the wrong one on a ridiculous contract that has yet again he’d the club as hostage to fortune.
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Sam Vokes
Dec 13, 2020 18:07:03 GMT
via mobile
Post by mickstupp on Dec 13, 2020 18:07:03 GMT
We don’t know if either player would have wanted to come to us though. For all we know we could have been after both of them. Of course we don’t bit that doesn’t excuse the daft we signed the wrong one on a ridiculous contract that has yet again he’d the club as hostage to fortune. Yes he’s been dreadful, but let’s look forward.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2020 18:27:13 GMT
The difference, or one of them, between fans and managers/coaches is that the former find it very easy to speak in absolutes without considering the consequences, while managers and coaches have to believe they have the ability to make players better, even those who are off form or seem to be misfiring for whatever reason.
O'Neill with only one forward who is fit (as in not nursing an injury or recovering during a long a layoff ), which is Vokes, can't afford to dispense with his services. He'll hope that he can teach Vokes some alternative routes to doing well, whether it works remains to be seen, but the manager has to keep trying. With only about 16 fit players ((plus academy prospects) at his disposal, he has no choice but to pick Vokes, Ince et al, on the bench at least).
From a purely managerial point of view he has no reason not to continue to work with him. He has never refused to train or turn up, unlike some others on our books.
Until such a moment as when somebody offers to take him on or his contract is run down, that's what he will do.
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Post by spitthedog on Dec 13, 2020 20:30:44 GMT
Who else would have signed him? He was Jones’ pick and he told us this at the time. Same goes with Batth who signed in the same window. Tony Pulis also stated that he was responsible for all the signings while he was at the Club ! Brek Shea really who signed and Etebo. Jones stated that he would be signing young, hungry, fast, athletic players then he signs Vokes, Batth and Stephen frigging Ward, I smell a rat a slimy rat. I think Jones possibly just got starstruck when he came to Stoke. Vokes was probably the highest profile player he had ever signed, an established international by his standards (if it in fact was down to Jones).
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 13, 2020 20:48:42 GMT
Of course we don’t bit that doesn’t excuse the daft we signed the wrong one on a ridiculous contract that has yet again he’d the club as hostage to fortune. Yes he’s been dreadful, but let’s look forward. Agree But , To paraphrase Churchill about learning the lessons of history How do you know where your going , if you don’t learn from how you got here today Out answer currently is there is nothing wrong with the process or the man at its head therefore to borrow another lesson from history The definition of madness is to keep doing the same things and expect a different outcome .
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Sam Vokes
Dec 13, 2020 21:55:09 GMT
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Post by tomcmod on Dec 13, 2020 21:55:09 GMT
When O'Neill says he had to play an unfit Fletcher who hasn't trained since his injury, I think that speaks volumes on his current view on Vokes.
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 13, 2020 22:03:51 GMT
When O'Neill says he had to play an unfit Fletcher who hasn't trained since his injury, I think that speaks volumes on his current view on Vokes. A condemning indictment of our transfer dealings from the current manager, I feel sorry for him he is now fighting with both hands tied firmly behind his back thanks to the process and the people involved in, we need a root and branch assessment of the reason we are in the predicament we find ourselves in, why do our owners not bring in a business consultant to investigate the reasons behind our decline ?
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Dec 13, 2020 23:04:59 GMT
When O'Neill says he had to play an unfit Fletcher who hasn't trained since his injury, I think that speaks volumes on his current view on Vokes. A condemning indictment of our transfer dealings from the current manager, I feel sorry for him he is now fighting with both hands tied firmly behind his back thanks to the process and the people involved in, we need a root and branch assessment of the reason we are in the predicament we find ourselves in, why do our owners not bring in a business consultant to investigate the reasons behind our decline ? They should just read the Oatcake and save themselves a bit of cash.
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Sam Vokes
Dec 13, 2020 23:19:52 GMT
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Post by roylandstoke on Dec 13, 2020 23:19:52 GMT
Does anyone think Vokes can step up and replace the goals we'd be getting from Tyrese?
No? I thought not.
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Post by somersetstokie on Dec 13, 2020 23:23:04 GMT
We now have a dramatic change in policy. Following the injury to Campbell, we are instead going to build our season around Vokes
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Post by jeycov on Dec 14, 2020 11:36:03 GMT
Does anyone think Vokes can step up and replace the goals we'd be getting from Tyrese? No? I thought not. Of course he can't BUT there's every chance he'll be putting a red and white shirt on for us this season and thank goodness there will be no fans to see it He will need our support if / when he plays, he isn't making mistakes intentionally, agree with an earlier poster probably better suited to a 442 formation An enormous amount of pressure and expectation on whoever replaces Campbell, either from within our own ranks or as a loan
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Dec 14, 2020 11:44:18 GMT
The only way Vokes could be in any way effective is to have players playing off and around him.
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Post by robwahlmann on Dec 14, 2020 17:01:12 GMT
The only way Vokes could be in any way effective is to have players playing off and around him. ..or getting a lot of crosses into the box! Vokes is certainly not bad in the air!
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Post by lordb on Dec 14, 2020 17:04:05 GMT
The only way Vokes could be in any way effective is to have players playing off and around him. ..or getting a lot of crosses into the box! Vokes is certainly not bad in the air! if playing Vokes then play McLean & Verlinden as they will get the most crosses in obviously Fletcher and Powell are available so no need to play Vokes
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Sam Vokes
Dec 14, 2020 17:04:12 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2020 17:04:12 GMT
The only way Vokes could be in any way effective is to have players playing off and around him. ..or getting a lot of crosses into the box! Vokes is certainly not bad in the air! As somebody called him last week, 46p head. They were being kind.
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Post by loosestools on Dec 14, 2020 17:09:01 GMT
The only way Vokes could be in any way effective is to have players playing off and around him. ..or getting a lot of crosses into the box! Vokes is certainly not bad in the air! We have to play to his strengths (whatever they are) Bombing crosses into the box seems a likely solution, if we had any wingers/backs who could actually do that job.
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Sam Vokes
Dec 14, 2020 17:29:34 GMT
via mobile
Post by moon on Dec 14, 2020 17:29:34 GMT
The only way Vokes could be in any way effective is to have players playing off and around him. ..or getting a lot of crosses into the box! Vokes is certainly not bad in the air! He’s better with his head than with his feet, but it’s not saying a lot. For a stocky guy he’s not very strong either.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Dec 14, 2020 17:34:28 GMT
The only way Vokes could be in any way effective is to have players playing off and around him. Or by putting a rail up inside him with some coat hangers!
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Post by clarkeda on Dec 15, 2020 7:38:00 GMT
The only way Vokes could be in any way effective is to have players playing off and around him. ..or getting a lot of crosses into the box! Vokes is certainly not bad in the air! Vokes being good in the air is a myth. I’ve seen him win about 4 headers in his whole stoke career. It’s pathetic
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Post by tachyon on Dec 15, 2020 10:20:23 GMT
Vokes being good in the air is a myth. It's not. He won 53% of his aerial duels at Burnley. For Stoke, he's won 48% in 2018/19, 52% in 2019/20 and 48% in 2020/21. He's contested around 20 aerial duels per 90. The expected winning aerial duel percentage for a player of his height and his position, in this league is 42%. He's above average aerially.
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Sam Vokes
Dec 15, 2020 10:40:10 GMT
via mobile
Post by thestatusquo on Dec 15, 2020 10:40:10 GMT
When O'Neill says he had to play an unfit Fletcher who hasn't trained since his injury, I think that speaks volumes on his current view on Vokes. A condemning indictment of our transfer dealings from the current manager, I feel sorry for him he is now fighting with both hands tied firmly behind his back thanks to the process and the people involved in, we need a root and branch assessment of the reason we are in the predicament we find ourselves in, why do our owners not bring in a business consultant to investigate the reasons behind our decline ? Thought we’d done that after relegation didn’t we? Lessons learned and all that.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 15, 2020 10:45:53 GMT
Vokes being good in the air is a myth. It's not. He won 53% of his aerial duels at Burnley. For Stoke, he's won 48% in 2018/19, 52% in 2019/20 and 48% in 2020/21. He's contested around 20 aerial duels per 90. The expected winning aerial duel percentage for a player of his height and his position, in this league is 42%. He's above average aerially. The way good old Vokesy keeps bossing these figures, I expect Brentford's crack recruitment team to come in and pinch him from our grasp in January.....or maybe not.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2020 10:50:58 GMT
Vokes being good in the air is a myth. It's not. He won 53% of his aerial duels at Burnley. For Stoke, he's won 48% in 2018/19, 52% in 2019/20 and 48% in 2020/21. He's contested around 20 aerial duels per 90. The expected winning aerial duel percentage for a player of his height and his position, in this league is 42%. He's above average aerially. What's the point of winning so many headers when 90% of them go straight to an opponent?
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Post by tachyon on Dec 15, 2020 11:13:07 GMT
What's the point of winning so many headers when 90% of them go straight to an opponent? 90% you say. Source?
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