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Post by xchpotter on Nov 7, 2020 15:28:03 GMT
For the first time in ages it looks more likely than not that if you give Fetcher or Campbell a good chance they will finish it. Don’t get me wrong, Fuller was great, but not since the days of Thorne, Stein and Sheron have I been this confident that given a chance these two will deliver. We just need to create the chances as all three goals today arguably came from defensive errors on their part which won’t happen every game (unless we play ourselves).
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Post by Trouserdog on Nov 7, 2020 15:33:44 GMT
Makes such a difference having strikers who can finish.
MON likes to soak up pressure and hit teams on the break, and having someone like Campbell is essential to making this work. He only needs a sniff of a chance in the box and he can score; that moment when he hit the post was unreal- it looked like there was nothing on at all from that angle, and to even hit the target from there was brilliant.
Fletcher isn't quite as clinical, but you can chuck it in the box and chances are he'll get his head on it and get something on target too.
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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Nov 7, 2020 15:36:53 GMT
Campbell is a great finisher. He can come accross as a little lazy but I’d sacrifice that for the goal input. He should get close to 20 if he stays fit.
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Post by Davef on Nov 7, 2020 15:38:46 GMT
Fletcher would've had a hat trick today if Danny Batth hadn't got a 50p head. Twice he had a chance to nod the ball to the far post from free kicks where Fletcher was waiting unmarked and twice he headed it over the bar.
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Post by houstonsteve on Nov 7, 2020 15:39:01 GMT
After Reading but before todays matches we were joint second highest scorers in the division this season. If you have natural finishers you are always in with a chance.
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Post by houstonsteve on Nov 7, 2020 15:39:45 GMT
Campbell is a great finisher. He can come accross as a little lazy but I’d sacrifice that for the goal input. He should get close to 20 if he stays fit. He is also getting a lot of assists. |
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Post by nottsover60 on Nov 7, 2020 15:46:12 GMT
Fletcher would've had a hat trick today if Danny Batth hadn't got a 50p head. Twice he had a chance to nod the ball to the far post from free kicks where Fletcher was waiting unmarked and twice he headed it over the bar. I think Batth suffers from tunnel vision. He can only head a ball hard and straight forward. There is no subtlety in his headers. |
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Post by lordb on Nov 7, 2020 15:51:20 GMT
Clucas, Powell and Jimmy will chip in too
Looking for the centre backs to get ten between them
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Post by telfordstokie on Nov 7, 2020 16:21:13 GMT
One noticeable improvement in Campbell’s game this season is his right-footed shooting. Goals against Brentford and Reading today plus that great effort that hit the post today as well. Makes him even harder for defences to play against as they can’t just usher him onto his right side.
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Post by kustokie on Nov 7, 2020 16:26:31 GMT
Fletcher would've had a hat trick today if Danny Batth hadn't got a 50p head. Twice he had a chance to nod the ball to the far post from free kicks where Fletcher was waiting unmarked and twice he headed it over the bar. I think Batth suffers from tunnel vision. He can only head a ball hard and straight forward. There is no subtlety in his headers. Maybe so. However, there’s a good argument to be made that his goals last season saved us from relegation. |
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Post by mickstupp on Nov 7, 2020 16:33:30 GMT
Fletcher is miles better than I thought he was. He leads the line to perfection, holding the ball up, winning fouls, and bringing others into the game whilst also being a goalscoring threat when crosses come in. Just for good measure, he’s also a really good defender in our own box when the opposition have a set play.
Campbell is just so dangerous. I love how he cuts inside and gets his shots away. The way he side foots his shots into the corners is reminiscent of Thierry Henry. He’s only going to get better and with a touch more physicality, he’s destined to play at a higher level.
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Post by chigstoke on Nov 7, 2020 16:35:07 GMT
Fletcher is miles better than I thought he was. He leads the line to perfection, holding the ball up, winning fouls, and bringing others into the game whilst also being a goalscoring threat when crosses come in. Just for good measure, he’s also a really good defender in our own box when the opposition have a set play. Campbell is just so dangerous. I love the way he cuts inside and gets his shots away. The way he side foots his shots into the corners is reminiscent of Thierry Henry. He’s only going to get better and with a touch more physicality, he’s destined to play at a higher level. Cannot disagree with a single word of this. |
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Post by stiggerstackle on Nov 7, 2020 17:04:00 GMT
For the first time in ages it looks more likely than not that if you give Fetcher or Campbell a good chance they will finish it. Don’t get me wrong, Fuller was great, but not since the days of Thorne, Stein and Sheron have I been this confident that given a chance these two will deliver. We just need to create the chances as all three goals today arguably came from defensive errors on their part which won’t happen every game (unless we play ourselves). Seeing as you’ve used the ‘F’ word - Campbell is starting to resemble the great man himself for me - can look bone fucking idle, but blink and he’s scored from nothing. He goes down blind alleys just like Ric and somehow pulls an impossible shot off. Will be a very exciting player for us. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 8, 2020 0:58:28 GMT
One noticeable improvement in Campbell’s game this season is his right-footed shooting. Goals against Brentford and Reading today plus that great effort that hit the post today as well. Makes him even harder for defences to play against as they can’t just usher him onto his right side. It’s come on massively and in the Youth Cup run it was the one thing that limited him and made me wary of him tbh. On his left he was always lethal but with that the better defenders knew how to mark him. He always tried to shift it to his left and yeah Robben made a career out of that and as Campbell showed it worked but only to a point. It also hindered other parts of his play. But it was after his loan to Shrewsbury that he came back and he looked so much better including using that right foot. To the point now where it looks as good as his left. Credit to him for developing that too because it’s made such a better player and far more harder to defend against. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Nov 8, 2020 1:00:42 GMT
I think Batth suffers from tunnel vision. He can only head a ball hard and straight forward. There is no subtlety in his headers. Maybe so. However, there’s a good argument to be made that his goals last season saved us from relegation. There’s an even better one that his defending put us in a position where we needed saving. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2020 7:38:52 GMT
One noticeable improvement in Campbell’s game this season is his right-footed shooting. Goals against Brentford and Reading today plus that great effort that hit the post today as well. Makes him even harder for defences to play against as they can’t just usher him onto his right side. Spot on, he seems to have added it to his game and he's gone up a level as a result. He's already getting too much attention for my liking though, particularly on the quest highlights program. Worried we will lose him soon |
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Post by wearestoke80 on Nov 8, 2020 7:55:58 GMT
I think brown deserves a mention aswell he made that goal himself with high pressing and a great finish
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 8, 2020 8:05:05 GMT
For the first time in ages it looks more likely than not that if you give Fetcher or Campbell a good chance they will finish it. Don’t get me wrong, Fuller was great, but not since the days of Thorne, Stein and Sheron have I been this confident that given a chance these two will deliver. We just need to create the chances as all three goals today arguably came from defensive errors on their part which won’t happen every game (unless we play ourselves). Honourable mention for Crouchy as well XC. I think part of the difference is perhaps having TWO front men and actually having a game plan that includes TRYING to play to them , to create chances. Crouchy was largely isolated and expected to take chances as they occurred. The brilliance of Fuller was that he often had to both create and finish chances. I agree with you by the way. |
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Post by telfordstokie on Nov 8, 2020 8:41:29 GMT
One noticeable improvement in Campbell’s game this season is his right-footed shooting. Goals against Brentford and Reading today plus that great effort that hit the post today as well. Makes him even harder for defences to play against as they can’t just usher him onto his right side. Spot on, he seems to have added it to his game and he's gone up a level as a result. He's already getting too much attention for my liking though, particularly on the quest highlights program. Worried we will lose him soon Know what you mean, think Premier League clubs will soon be sniffing around (and probably are already). If he can keep the start he’s made up to the season consistently, I would honestly put him in the same bracket talent and potential-wise as Ollie Watkins and Rhian Brewster. Whether we could get near the huge fees they were sold for this summer is obviously a different question - hopefully we can sneak promotion so it wouldn’t an issue. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 8, 2020 9:15:35 GMT
Is Campbell’s dad his agent? I hope so as having an ex-pro he may advise him to keep his head down and keep improving with us rather than getting his head turned by a premature big move to sit on West Ham’s bench or something.
I don’t think we will go up this season (we may do but unlikely), but it feels like we are getting better and would have a better shot at it next season perhaps. We need to keep Campbell for that. I hope he stays grounded, particularly if he does go on to score 20+ this season.
I have always thought Fletcher was underrated. I thought he may be too old though when he joined but he is very effective in what he does. Pleasantly surprised.
Our team has goals in it. If we can tighten up slightly without losing our attacking edge then playoffs look a real possibility.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Nov 8, 2020 9:32:59 GMT
Is Campbell’s dad his agent? I hope so as having an ex-pro he may advise him to keep his head down and keep improving with us rather than getting his head turned by a premature big move to sit on West Ham’s bench or something. I don’t think we will go up this season (we may do but unlikely), but it feels like we are getting better and would have a better shot at it next season perhaps. We need to keep Campbell for that. I hope he stays grounded, particularly if he does go on to score 20+ this season. I have always thought Fletcher was underrated. I thought he may be too old though when he joined but he is very effective in what he does. Pleasantly surprised. Our team has goals in it. If we can tighten up slightly without losing our attacking edge then playoffs look a real possibility. I read it differently to you. I don't see any club much more likely to get promoted than us. For me there is a top 6 or 8 group of clubs any of which could get promoted this season. I don't think there is a trio of clubs who look most likely - as happened last season when 2 of the 3 managed auto promotion. Those who say we haven't yet played as well as we should are correct. Yet, but for a bizarre refereeing performance against Watford, we would probably have been 2nd or 3rd at the moment. I'm certain we'll be in the mix this season - no guarantees, of course, just as there are no guarantees for any club. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 8, 2020 9:43:05 GMT
Is Campbell’s dad his agent? I hope so as having an ex-pro he may advise him to keep his head down and keep improving with us rather than getting his head turned by a premature big move to sit on West Ham’s bench or something. I don’t think we will go up this season (we may do but unlikely), but it feels like we are getting better and would have a better shot at it next season perhaps. We need to keep Campbell for that. I hope he stays grounded, particularly if he does go on to score 20+ this season. I have always thought Fletcher was underrated. I thought he may be too old though when he joined but he is very effective in what he does. Pleasantly surprised. Our team has goals in it. If we can tighten up slightly without losing our attacking edge then playoffs look a real possibility. I read it differently to you. I don't see any club much more likely to get promoted than us. For me there is a top 6 or 8 group of clubs any of which could get promoted this season. I don't think there is a trio of clubs who look most likely - as happened last season when 2 of the 3 managed auto promotion. Those who say we haven't yet played as well as we should are correct. Yet, but for a bizarre refereeing performance against Watford, we would probably have been 2nd or 3rd at the moment. I'm certain we'll be in the mix this season - no guarantees, of course, just as there are no guarantees for any club. I’m trying not to be overly optimistic so I am not disappointed! I think we have a chance this season but we will be in a better position next season. We are a bit hit and miss. Swansea was a chastisement and I think there are several sides better than Swansea. I hope you are right. I definitely think you are right about there being no outstanding sides. Injuries will be crucial this season too. A bit of luck and we should be top 6. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2020 9:51:30 GMT
I read it differently to you. I don't see any club much more likely to get promoted than us. For me there is a top 6 or 8 group of clubs any of which could get promoted this season. I don't think there is a trio of clubs who look most likely - as happened last season when 2 of the 3 managed auto promotion. Those who say we haven't yet played as well as we should are correct. Yet, but for a bizarre refereeing performance against Watford, we would probably have been 2nd or 3rd at the moment. I'm certain we'll be in the mix this season - no guarantees, of course, just as there are no guarantees for any club. I’m trying not to be overly optimistic so I am not disappointed! I think we have a chance this season but we will be in a better position next season. We are a bit hit and miss. Swansea was a chastisement and I think there are several sides better than Swansea. I hope you are right. I definitely think you are right about there being no outstanding sides. Injuries will be crucial this season too. A bit of luck and we should be top 6. Yes I think we are just short of the likes of Swansea, Bristol City, who both showed us up. I'm worried about Campbell going mid season, he's getting better and better and I believe the rumours that the club was looking to sell him in the summer obviously to fund investment in the squad. |
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Post by tachyon on Nov 8, 2020 10:16:59 GMT
Analytical viewpoint. SF. He scores as many goals as you'd expect based on the quality of the chances he's getting on the end of. He's a league average finisher, who engineers very high quality chances for himself. Opener verses Watford shows his strengths. Goes from being tightly marked at the corner to owning most of the far post pitch control when his marker goes ball hawking. SF puts the assist on a plate for Powell and Powell puts the goal on a plate for SF. Last 60 odd Championship games, SF is the recipient of around 0.5 non penalty xG per 90. Golddust. TC's been the end product for 0.24xG per 90. So his volume and/or quality of chances aren't in SF's league. (they play different roles). But he has been "clinical" (or he's outperformed his xG). Here's his Championship shot map. 46 games, 71 attempts, 6.9 expected goals(inc pens), actual goals 12.  Only around 20 players have been that "clinical" with similar opportunity in the Championship since 2014, but this talent doesn't stick. Only three came close to replicating the finishing prowess they'd apparently shown previously. Those who tried (and failed) include Tom Ince (Derby 201415) & Benik Afobe (WW 201415). It would be great if TC maintains his strike rate/chance quality, but history is very much against that happening. As has been mentioned, he's developing his weaker foot and that helps (Son is a prime example at Spurs, he uses his "weaker" foot almost as often as not and he's maintained an xG overperformance). Maybe TC is another Son. Stoke will have a problem to solve. If they sell at the top of a bubble, (maybe January) they'll get a massively inflated price if/when TC's finishing sinks back to earth. If they keep him, they'll end up with a talented goal scorer, (but not quite as talented as it currently appears). |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2020 11:18:54 GMT
The frightening thing is Campbell is still learning! The lad is going to be unbelievable. I still want to see him closer to Fletcher on the shoulder, but he’s a phenomenal talent to have
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Post by Gary Hackett on Nov 8, 2020 11:27:25 GMT
Best strikers we've had since Fuller and Beattie.
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Post by andystokey on Nov 8, 2020 11:28:11 GMT
Fletcher would've had a hat trick today if Danny Batth hadn't got a 50p head. Twice he had a chance to nod the ball to the far post from free kicks where Fletcher was waiting unmarked and twice he headed it over the bar. Souttar is the player we should be using to vary those set piece corners. Defences will inevitably need to put one in front and one behind him and that creates space. If we mixed it up a bit more with him both near post and far post we could be lethal off corners with the remaining players in the team making late runs. I remember the Maguire/O'Callaghan combo, it seemed at the time we would score every time. |
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Post by markby on Nov 9, 2020 2:03:01 GMT
Maybe TC is another Son. Stoke will have a problem to solve. If they sell at the top of a bubble, (maybe January) they'll get a massively inflated price if/when TC's finishing sinks back to earth. If they keep him, they'll end up with a talented goal scorer, (but not quite as talented as it currently appears). Won't the clubs with decent money (i.e. Premier League) also be aware of the "bubble" and hold off from paying an inflated price?
At the very least, if he continues "outperformimg" (improving?) through to the end of the season, they can always come back in the summer.
Better to pay eg £20m for "The Real Deal" in July than £10m for a "Flash in the Pan" in January.
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Post by potterpaul on Nov 9, 2020 5:41:29 GMT
Best strikers we've had since Fuller and Beattie. Have they got a better strike rate than Bojan? Are we forgetting Arnie in the calculations? |
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Post by tachyon on Nov 9, 2020 9:16:38 GMT
Maybe TC is another Son. Stoke will have a problem to solve. If they sell at the top of a bubble, (maybe January) they'll get a massively inflated price if/when TC's finishing sinks back to earth. If they keep him, they'll end up with a talented goal scorer, (but not quite as talented as it currently appears). Won't the clubs with decent money (i.e. Premier League) also be aware of the "bubble" and hold off from paying an inflated price? At the very least, if he continues "outperformimg" (improving?) through to the end of the season, they can always come back in the summer. Better to pay eg £20m for "The Real Deal" in July than £10m for a "Flash in the Pan" in January.
Always plenty of teams who can't value a striker properly & will pay inflated prices through desperation in January. Outperforming your conversion rate season after season rarely happens & certainly not to the degree that TC has shown to date. (His "clinical" finishing has outperformed Messi by 20% over the same period, with a few caveats). Marcus Rashford started on a hot finishing streak, but over his subsequent PL career, he's been a dead average finisher. Sustainable improvement will come from jacking up TC's current 0.24 xG/90, by getting him into good scoring positions, more frequently. That's the much more repeatable skill, not being clinical. Hopefully we know his true value & his (higher) achievable value if we sell. |
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