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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2021 10:10:42 GMT
Interesting that Bristol City are potentially getting rid of Holden. They are on the same points as us and have won more games. Their recent record is 4 wins in the last 13 league games, compared to our 1 win in 13.
After the sacking of Tindall with a similar record, I can't work out if other chairmen are over the top and trigger happy or ours are too loyal and sensible?
What's the middle ground if there is one?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 16, 2021 10:17:18 GMT
Interesting that Bristol City are potentially getting rid of Holden. They are on the same points as us and have won more games. Their recent record is 4 wins in the last 13 league games, compared to our 1 win in 13. After the sacking of Tindall with a similar record, I can't work out if other chairmen are over the top and trigger happy or ours are too loyal and sensible? What's the middle ground if there is one? It's very context-dependent you'd think. |
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 16, 2021 10:25:22 GMT
Interesting that Bristol City are potentially getting rid of Holden. They are on the same points as us and have won more games. Their recent record is 4 wins in the last 13 league games, compared to our 1 win in 13. After the sacking of Tindall with a similar record, I can't work out if other chairmen are over the top and trigger happy or ours are too loyal and sensible? What's the middle ground if there is one? They've won 5 of the last 16, but actually lost the other 11, there is a subtle difference between teams getting beaten week in week and out and teams drawing too many and not converting them to wins. Ultimately I think it comes down to whether you think the players are still playing for the manager, if an owner thinks that bond has gone it becomes a no brainer, didn't see the 0-6 Watford loss but that might suggest that's what has happened. Shame as you want to see young homegrown managers do well....... |
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 16, 2021 10:31:43 GMT
Interesting that Bristol City are potentially getting rid of Holden. They are on the same points as us and have won more games. Their recent record is 4 wins in the last 13 league games, compared to our 1 win in 13. After the sacking of Tindall with a similar record, I can't work out if other chairmen are over the top and trigger happy or ours are too loyal and sensible? What's the middle ground if there is one? Are ours loyal and sensible? We’ve had five managers in three years, how many have trigger happy clubs like Watford or Nottingham Forest had in that time? |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 16, 2021 10:33:09 GMT
Interesting that Bristol City are potentially getting rid of Holden. They are on the same points as us and have won more games. Their recent record is 4 wins in the last 13 league games, compared to our 1 win in 13. After the sacking of Tindall with a similar record, I can't work out if other chairmen are over the top and trigger happy or ours are too loyal and sensible? What's the middle ground if there is one? Are ours loyal and sensible? We’ve had five managers in three years, how many have trigger happy clubs like Watford or Nottingham Forest had in that time? Loyal yes, sensible is debatable sometimes... |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2021 10:34:52 GMT
Interesting that Bristol City are potentially getting rid of Holden. They are on the same points as us and have won more games. Their recent record is 4 wins in the last 13 league games, compared to our 1 win in 13. After the sacking of Tindall with a similar record, I can't work out if other chairmen are over the top and trigger happy or ours are too loyal and sensible? What's the middle ground if there is one? Are ours loyal and sensible? We’ve had five managers in three years, how many have trigger happy clubs like Watford or Nottingham Forest had in that time? Forest 5, Watford about 20. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Feb 16, 2021 10:36:59 GMT
I’m sure they’ll have a new manager in place coinciding with when we visit there on April 2nd so they can utilise their new manager bounce against us.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 16, 2021 10:45:05 GMT
Interesting that Bristol City are potentially getting rid of Holden. They are on the same points as us and have won more games. Their recent record is 4 wins in the last 13 league games, compared to our 1 win in 13. After the sacking of Tindall with a similar record, I can't work out if other chairmen are over the top and trigger happy or ours are too loyal and sensible? What's the middle ground if there is one? Are ours loyal and sensible? We’ve had five managers in three years, how many have trigger happy clubs like Watford or Nottingham Forest had in that time? None have been sacked incorrectly though. Indeed Hughes and Jones lasted longer than they should have done. |
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 16, 2021 10:47:17 GMT
Are ours loyal and sensible? We’ve had five managers in three years, how many have trigger happy clubs like Watford or Nottingham Forest had in that time? None have been sacked incorrectly though. Indeed Hughes and Jones lasted longer than they should have done. Either way I’m not sure we should be held up as a club that values continuity when the recent past indicates we are run more like a basket case. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 16, 2021 10:48:18 GMT
None have been sacked incorrectly though. Indeed Hughes and Jones lasted longer than they should have done. Either way I’m not sure we should be held up as a club that values continuity when the recent past indicates we are run more like a basket case. They're still way too loyal for their own good though. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 16, 2021 10:49:27 GMT
None have been sacked incorrectly though. Indeed Hughes and Jones lasted longer than they should have done. Either way I’m not sure we should be held up as a club that values continuity when the recent past indicates we are run more like a basket case. Continuity isn't always a good thing though, surely there has to be a reason to stick as much as sometimes there's clearly a reason to twist? |
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 16, 2021 10:50:17 GMT
Either way I’m not sure we should be held up as a club that values continuity when the recent past indicates we are run more like a basket case. Continuity isn't always a good thing though, surely there has to be a reason to stick as much as sometimes there's clearly a reason to twist? Well we’ve twisted pretty much more than anyone else recently and where has it got us? |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 16, 2021 10:52:26 GMT
Continuity isn't always a good thing though, surely there has to be a reason to stick as much as sometimes there's clearly a reason to twist? Well we’ve twisted pretty much more than anyone else recently and where has it got us? More managers who don't watch tapes of the bloke before and then copy him.  |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 16, 2021 10:57:17 GMT
Continuity isn't always a good thing though, surely there has to be a reason to stick as much as sometimes there's clearly a reason to twist? Well we’ve twisted pretty much more than anyone else recently and where has it got us? Do you think we'd have been better off if we'd stuck with any of the ones we sacked? The problem was the bad appointments, not getting rid of them. |
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 16, 2021 10:57:33 GMT
Well we’ve twisted pretty much more than anyone else recently and where has it got us? More managers who don't watch tapes of the bloke before and then copy him. Not sure what you mean by that but the money we must have paid out in severance pay of managers and back room staff after every change must be eye watering. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 16, 2021 10:59:05 GMT
More managers who don't watch tapes of the bloke before and then copy him. Not sure what you mean by that but the money we must have paid out in severance pay of managers and back room staff after every change must be eye watering. I mean we've employed a series of people that have tried doing the same thing as the man before them. 433 or 3 at the back. It's like they don't actually watch tapes of what the previous bloke did wrong and try to analyse it. |
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 16, 2021 10:59:46 GMT
Well we’ve twisted pretty much more than anyone else recently and where has it got us? Do you think we'd have been better off if we'd stuck with any of the ones we sacked? The problem was the bad appointments, not getting rid of them. In hindsight? I think Hughes might have given us a bit more than we got from Lambert, and there was little to no point in bringing in Jones to replace Rowett. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 16, 2021 11:01:39 GMT
Do you think we'd have been better off if we'd stuck with any of the ones we sacked? The problem was the bad appointments, not getting rid of them. In hindsight? I think Hughes might have given us a bit more than we got from Lambert, and there was little to no point in bringing in Jones to replace Rowett. Pretty much my point though wasn't it? The sacking wasn't wrong, the subsequent appointment was. |
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Post by ibby on Feb 16, 2021 11:02:44 GMT
Dean Holden will be gone if he loses tonight.
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 16, 2021 11:02:54 GMT
Not sure what you mean by that but the money we must have paid out in severance pay of managers and back room staff after every change must be eye watering. I mean we've employed a series of people that have tried doing the same thing as the man before them. 433 or 3 at the back. It's like they don't actually watch tapes of what the previous bloke did wrong and try to analyse it. Systems aren’t really a huge issue IMO. It’s not an overly tactical league. It’s the experienced players in the squad that have let us as fans, and a succession of managers down. |
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 16, 2021 11:07:29 GMT
In hindsight? I think Hughes might have given us a bit more than we got from Lambert, and there was little to no point in bringing in Jones to replace Rowett. Pretty much my point though wasn't it? The sacking wasn't wrong, the subsequent appointment was. I honestly thought we were too hasty sacking Rowett. Having appointed him and given him enormous financing backing, I still think he should have been given a full season at least. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 16, 2021 11:11:06 GMT
I mean we've employed a series of people that have tried doing the same thing as the man before them. 433 or 3 at the back. It's like they don't actually watch tapes of what the previous bloke did wrong and try to analyse it. Systems aren’t really a huge issue IMO. It’s not an overly tactical league. It’s the experienced players in the squad that have let us as fans, and a succession of managers down. I can't agree sorry. Systems are the biggest part of football. I don't get why the managers hang their hat on someone like Allen, it makes no sense. Totally blinded by the glamour of them. But that imo is the managers issue. He shouldn't be picking them. |
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Feb 16, 2021 11:12:39 GMT
Are ours loyal and sensible? We’ve had five managers in three years, how many have trigger happy clubs like Watford or Nottingham Forest had in that time? None have been sacked incorrectly though. Indeed Hughes and Jones lasted longer than they should have done. I know its hindsight but Hughes might just have kept us up and it could be argued that replacing him with lambert was the wrong decision completely at that point in time. Hughes could have been sacked at the end of previous season or the end of relegation season and had no complaints |
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 16, 2021 11:13:06 GMT
Systems aren’t really a huge issue IMO. It’s not an overly tactical league. It’s the experienced players in the squad that have let us as fans, and a succession of managers down. I can't agree sorry. Systems are the biggest part of football. I don't get why the managers hang their hat on someone like Allen, it makes no sense. Totally blinded by the glamour of them. But that imo is the managers issue. He shouldn't be picking them. That’s easier said than done when they are senior players tied to the club under long term contracts. Unless we find buyers we are stuck with them. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 16, 2021 11:14:57 GMT
None have been sacked incorrectly though. Indeed Hughes and Jones lasted longer than they should have done. I know its hindsight but Hughes might just have kept us up and it could be argued that replacing him with lambert was the wrong decision completely at that point in time. Hughes could have been sacked at the end of previous season or the end of relegation season and had no complaints He probably would have done I agree but he should have been sacked at least 8 months earlier. He needed to go when he did, Lambert then became the issue. I never thought we'd sink so low. |
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Post by scfc75 on Feb 16, 2021 11:15:49 GMT
Systems aren’t really a huge issue IMO. It’s not an overly tactical league. It’s the experienced players in the squad that have let us as fans, and a succession of managers down. I can't agree sorry. Systems are the biggest part of football. I don't get why the managers hang their hat on someone like Allen, it makes no sense. Totally blinded by the glamour of them. But that imo is the managers issue. He shouldn't be picking them. There’s an oxymoron. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 16, 2021 11:16:01 GMT
I can't agree sorry. Systems are the biggest part of football. I don't get why the managers hang their hat on someone like Allen, it makes no sense. Totally blinded by the glamour of them. But that imo is the managers issue. He shouldn't be picking them. That’s easier said than done when they are senior players tied to the club under long term contracts. Unless we find buyers we are stuck with them. Not really. We've done it many senior players. Successive managers at this club have genuinely thought Allen is about the best player we have. I think they're morons. |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 16, 2021 11:17:46 GMT
Pretty much my point though wasn't it? The sacking wasn't wrong, the subsequent appointment was. I honestly thought we were too hasty sacking Rowett. Having appointed him and given him enormous financing backing, I still think he should have been given a full season at least. I thought he had to go. Nothing was going to get better. He'd wasted the largest single-window warchest in the club's history on players who didn't fit the tedious way he wanted to play, he ostracised anyone at the club with even the merest whiff of creativity, he thought he could set up the big-spending, overwhelming favourites for promotion as plucky underdogs trying to pinch something on the break and then couldn't fathom why we couldn't break teams down at home, then threw players under the bus when it started going wrong before having a pop at the fans. It was a disaster. He didn't deserve another window to address dreadful failures of his own making. |
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Feb 16, 2021 11:18:47 GMT
I know its hindsight but Hughes might just have kept us up and it could be argued that replacing him with lambert was the wrong decision completely at that point in time. Hughes could have been sacked at the end of previous season or the end of relegation season and had no complaints He probably would have done I agree but he should have been sacked at least 8 months earlier. He needed to go when he did, Lambert then became the issue. I never thought we'd sink so low. Yep he could have had no real complaints if sacked earlier. The clamour on here and at the ground for Hughes sacking made it almost inevitable that he’d get the axe, however the shambles that followed leading to the appointment of Lambert was incredibly inept |
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Feb 16, 2021 11:18:53 GMT
Systems aren’t really a huge issue IMO. It’s not an overly tactical league. It’s the experienced players in the squad that have let us as fans, and a succession of managers down. I can't agree sorry. Systems are the biggest part of football. I don't get why the managers hang their hat on someone like Allen, it makes no sense. Totally blinded by the glamour of them. But that imo is the managers issue. He shouldn't be picking them. The league has got overtly more tactical in recent years as well. Not many teams hoof their way to promotion these days. |
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