|
Post by OldStokie on Jul 1, 2020 11:06:27 GMT
Butland has suffered a professional breakdown. I'm convinced of it. He shouldn't be playing. This. The Butland of old was an arrogant but brilliant player. His arrogance was key to his confidence. Then came the freak injury that put him out of the game for a year. He wasn't helped by a few breakdowns after thinking he'd recovered. Each of us are mentally different and I reckon that injury knocked the stuffing out him so much that he's never been able to hack it since. Occasionally we see moments of his former brilliance, but the Jack of old has gone. His reactions, which are the most important asset of a 'keeper, are not there. Wigan's 3rd goal was almost a replica of 'Boro's 2nd goal. He didn't react at all to the 'Boro goal and last night the ball was in the back of the net before he reacted to the shot from 20 yards. He does need to be dropped. That's for his own sake as well as ours. I actually find it quite sad to see a once superb player reduced to what he is now. Michael O'Neil has given Jack every chance to resurrect his career, but it hasn't worked out. He should select Davies until the end of the season now. Whatever Davies does, I wouldn't think he can do worse than what Jack is serving up at the moment. If Jack continues to be picked and he stuffs my words down my mouth, then there will be nobody more pleased than me. OS.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2020 11:13:52 GMT
He can do all the 'one for the camera' and point blank stops he likes; but the simple fact is that goalkeeping basics constantly let him down. Know your position in relation to the sticks, don't leave yourself unsighted and NEVER get beaten at your near post by leaving your legs open. Those three basics could have prevented so many of our sloppy goals. The 4 clowns that sit in front of him are a totally different matter though...... All true , and the entire back four need to know , if the ball is comming across his six yard box , he's comming for it and it's his ...as happened with crossley , simonsen Tommy Sorensen federici blah blah But in butland's case , it's sorry lads , I am rooted to my line , either you head it clear , or its a goal . Since when ? Does defending work this way ?
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 1, 2020 11:36:40 GMT
He can do all the 'one for the camera' and point blank stops he likes; but the simple fact is that goalkeeping basics constantly let him down. Know your position in relation to the sticks, don't leave yourself unsighted and NEVER get beaten at your near post by leaving your legs open. Those three basics could have prevented so many of our sloppy goals. The 4 clowns that sit in front of him are a totally different matter though...... All true , and the entire back four need to know , if the ball is comming across his six yard box , he's comming for it and it's his ...as happened with crossley , simonsen Tommy Sorensen federici blah blah But in butland's case , it's sorry lads , I am rooted to my line , either you head it clear , or its a goal . Since when ? Does defending work this way ? That isn't strictly true. I eeked a good few extra years out of playing football off the back of my two centre half partners knowing that I wouldn't come so they just dealt with it unless they heard loud and clear that I was coming for it. I completely lost the ability to judge the flight of a cross or high ball into the box so they just dealt with it for me. They made me look brilliant in the process because I could just focus on saving any subsequent shot. Jack, however, looks finished. His feet aren't moving and his confidence is completely shot.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2020 11:49:35 GMT
All true , and the entire back four need to know , if the ball is comming across his six yard box , he's comming for it and it's his ...as happened with crossley , simonsen Tommy Sorensen federici blah blah But in butland's case , it's sorry lads , I am rooted to my line , either you head it clear , or its a goal . Since when ? Does defending work this way ? That isn't strictly true. I eeked a good few extra years out of playing football off the back of my two centre half partners knowing that I wouldn't come so they just dealt with it unless they heard loud and clear that I was coming for it. I completely lost the ability to judge the flight of a cross or high ball into the box so they just dealt with it for me. They made me look brilliant in the process because I could just focus on saving any subsequent shot. Jack, however, looks finished. His feet aren't moving and his confidence is completely shot. As an ex keeper Dave, whose obviously played to a decent standard, what do you think could be going on with Jack and more to the point, what does he have to do to fix it?
|
|
|
Post by thfc67 on Jul 1, 2020 12:00:52 GMT
Bit of a 'discussion' about him BTL in the Guardian today vastariner 13h ago There should be a Government inquiry in what Stoke have done to Butland. Turned England's best young goalkeeper, and one who should have been the national no. 1 for two decades, into a gibbering wreck. Kasarabian - vastariner 13h ago Wouldn't you be a gibbering wreck if you had to live and work in the Potteries? Birmingham is paradise by comparison. KTF UTW PenkhullMoonraker - vastariner 8h ago He sustained a broken foot on England duty which refused to heal, was operated on 3 times and kept him out of the first XI for 15 months. When he did eventually return to the first team he was not the same player. Yes, he is still capable of those worldy trademark saves but his confidence is shot and just can't seem to achieve any consistency in getting the basics right. The club even got rid of the well respected goalkeeping performance trainer Andy Quy in order to shake up Jack's rehabilitation, all to no avail. It's been very sad to witness the demise of such a talent, but the harsh reality is that Jack Butland's loss of form has cost Stoke dearly over the past three calamitous seasons. He's been given every opportunity to put things right and he's been backed to the hilt by the club, the fans and our last four managers - but I'm afraid it's not looking good for the lad, particularly with the squad of "couldn't care less" flops (except Shawcross, Allen & Mclean) that play in front of him. Most fans would be happy to see him gone. Maybe he can resurrect his career elsewhere, i'd like to think so. PenkhullMoonraker - Kasarabian 4h ago I'd have to kill myself if I spoke like any of you Black Country lot. At least Stokies can be understood within the rest of the UK. www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jun/30/championship-roundup-leeds-fight-for-draw-while-brentford-beat-reading#comments
|
|
|
Post by Staffsoatcake on Jul 1, 2020 12:27:02 GMT
He would be the No.2 at top Championship clubs, like Leeds and West Brom.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 1, 2020 13:32:25 GMT
That isn't strictly true. I eeked a good few extra years out of playing football off the back of my two centre half partners knowing that I wouldn't come so they just dealt with it unless they heard loud and clear that I was coming for it. I completely lost the ability to judge the flight of a cross or high ball into the box so they just dealt with it for me. They made me look brilliant in the process because I could just focus on saving any subsequent shot. Jack, however, looks finished. His feet aren't moving and his confidence is completely shot. As an ex keeper Dave, whose obviously played to a decent standard, what do you think could be going on with Jack and more to the point, what does he have to do to fix it? His attitude is awful and has been for years. This all coincided with him dicking around with that air hostess. He got his injury and was going basketball games and generally got a high profile and seemed to turn into a twat who thought he was better than what he was. His crocodile tears in the final game in the PL were pathetic. He showed his true colours throughout the season making mistake after mistake and not being able to take the blame. The way he reacted to the crowd was pathetic. I have just below Jese for twatishness that season. I also have never got the feeling he wanted to be here. Even from the off he’d always reminisce about Brum. I found it odd. Add all of it together, injury, mind elsewhere, billy big bollocks, lack of acceptance of mistakes, lack of learning from mistakes and a general disdain for the fans definitely and maybe the club and you get the pathetic mess we see today. He should have been the first out of the door on relegation from the PL.
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 1, 2020 14:09:56 GMT
That isn't strictly true. I eeked a good few extra years out of playing football off the back of my two centre half partners knowing that I wouldn't come so they just dealt with it unless they heard loud and clear that I was coming for it. I completely lost the ability to judge the flight of a cross or high ball into the box so they just dealt with it for me. They made me look brilliant in the process because I could just focus on saving any subsequent shot. Jack, however, looks finished. His feet aren't moving and his confidence is completely shot. As an ex keeper Dave, whose obviously played to a decent standard, what do you think could be going on with Jack and more to the point, what does he have to do to fix it? Hard to say mate in truth. Mentally hes shot to pieces. I'd hoped the break would have done him good. Looks to me like his feet aren't moving as they should which means he isn't getting into the positions he should to make the save. He needs to leave for his and our sake.
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 1, 2020 14:30:47 GMT
As an ex keeper Dave, whose obviously played to a decent standard, what do you think could be going on with Jack and more to the point, what does he have to do to fix it? His attitude is awful and has been for years. This all coincided with him dicking around with that air hostess. He got his injury and was going basketball games and generally got a high profile and seemed to turn into a twat who thought he was better than what he was. His crocodile tears in the final game in the PL were pathetic. He showed his true colours throughout the season making mistake after mistake and not being able to take the blame. The way he reacted to the crowd was pathetic. I have just below Jese for twatishness that season. I also have never got the feeling he wanted to be here. Even from the off he’d always reminisce about Brum. I found it odd. Add all of it together, injury, mind elsewhere, billy big bollocks, lack of acceptance of mistakes, lack of learning from mistakes and a general disdain for the fans definitely and maybe the club and you get the pathetic mess we see today. He should have been the first out of the door on relegation from the PL. You mean his fiance (she might even be his wife now) and the woman he's recently had a child with? Hardly messing about with her was he?
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 1, 2020 14:35:34 GMT
His attitude is awful and has been for years. This all coincided with him dicking around with that air hostess. He got his injury and was going basketball games and generally got a high profile and seemed to turn into a twat who thought he was better than what he was. His crocodile tears in the final game in the PL were pathetic. He showed his true colours throughout the season making mistake after mistake and not being able to take the blame. The way he reacted to the crowd was pathetic. I have just below Jese for twatishness that season. I also have never got the feeling he wanted to be here. Even from the off he’d always reminisce about Brum. I found it odd. Add all of it together, injury, mind elsewhere, billy big bollocks, lack of acceptance of mistakes, lack of learning from mistakes and a general disdain for the fans definitely and maybe the club and you get the pathetic mess we see today. He should have been the first out of the door on relegation from the PL. You mean his fiance (she might even be his wife now) and the woman he's recently had a child with? Hardly messing about with her was he? He was cheating on the woman he had been going out since school. It was another distraction.
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 1, 2020 14:39:49 GMT
You mean his fiance (she might even be his wife now) and the woman he's recently had a child with? Hardly messing about with her was he? He was cheating on the woman he had been going out since school. It was another distraction. I divorced the woman I fell in love with at a young age as well. It happens. Criticise his goalkeeping by all means but hes a settled 27 year old bloke with a fiance/wife and a little boy. To imply his private life is a distraction or cause of his poor form is unfair given you have absolutely no idea of the facts involved.
|
|
|
Post by mcw on Jul 1, 2020 14:42:37 GMT
All true , and the entire back four need to know , if the ball is comming across his six yard box , he's comming for it and it's his ...as happened with crossley , simonsen Tommy Sorensen federici blah blah But in butland's case , it's sorry lads , I am rooted to my line , either you head it clear , or its a goal . Since when ? Does defending work this way ? That isn't strictly true. I eeked a good few extra years out of playing football off the back of my two centre half partners knowing that I wouldn't come so they just dealt with it unless they heard loud and clear that I was coming for it. I completely lost the ability to judge the flight of a cross or high ball into the box so they just dealt with it for me. They made me look brilliant in the process because I could just focus on saving any subsequent shot. Jack, however, looks finished. His feet aren't moving and his confidence is completely shot. It's all about communication like you say- defenders need to know if you are coming or not and worse than having a keeper who doesn't come at all is one that comes and flaps from time to time and stays rooted to his line the rest of the time. I think Jack has just lost all confidence, they say the first ten yards is in the mind relative to outfield players and the same is true for a keeper- if you are confident you see the ball, you instinctively go for it and catch it and when you are not you see the ball, hesitate and think about coming or not coming and by then it is too late. This is why he is rooted to the spot for all but the most basic of balls into the box- i.e. high looped balls when you have time to think and react or balls which are basically on top of him where the decision is made for you. He is in a massive funk and needs taking out of the team for his and the team's benefit with the hope that time off restores his confidence, but there is the possibility that he is actually completely shot confidence wise and will never return to the heights he was once at.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 1, 2020 14:44:57 GMT
He was cheating on the woman he had been going out since school. It was another distraction. I divorced the woman I fell in love with at a young age as well. It happens. Criticise his goalkeeping by all means but hes a settled 27 year old bloke with a fiance/wife and a little boy. To imply his private life is a distraction or cause of his poor form is unfair given you have absolutely no idea of the facts involved. I don’t think it is at all. He was doing all the things Zouma and Choupo would get battered for but got away with it. His attitude stinks and has done for quite some time and it’s a massive part of his problems.
|
|
|
Post by wrighter on Jul 1, 2020 14:51:20 GMT
Shouldve kept Grant
Good keeper, did nothing wrong, but helluva lot right
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on Jul 1, 2020 15:01:42 GMT
I really don't think he should playing football.....his facial expressions say it all. He looks totally stressed.
|
|
|
Post by liathroid on Jul 4, 2020 16:35:31 GMT
one half desent save and poor kicking
|
|
|
Post by terryconroysmagic on Jul 4, 2020 16:50:39 GMT
Kicking aside he looked ok today
|
|
|
Post by scfcwebby on Jul 4, 2020 16:55:01 GMT
one half desent save and poor kicking Knew someone would pick a negative from today 🙄 Looked solid today when called upon, apart from 1 dodgey kick when he was sold slightly short by cousins who apologised after it
|
|
|
Post by jonparkinsgut on Jul 4, 2020 17:03:23 GMT
one half desent save and poor kicking Knew someone would pick a negative from today 🙄 Looked solid today when called upon, apart from 1 dodgey kick when he was sold slightly short by cousins who apologised after it Four, yes four, consecutive clearances that either went straight into touch or couldn't be stopped from going into touch. His distribution is appalling.
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 4, 2020 17:04:36 GMT
one half desent save and poor kicking Knew someone would pick a negative from today 🙄 Looked solid today when called upon, apart from 1 dodgey kick when he was sold slightly short by cousins who apologised after it Did everything he needed to do and made important save at 2-0. Pleased he got a clean sheet. Hope he can use it as a platform to get back into some kind of form
|
|
|
Post by liathroid on Jul 4, 2020 17:08:29 GMT
Knew someone would pick a negative from today 🙄 Looked solid today when called upon, apart from 1 dodgey kick when he was sold slightly short by cousins who apologised after it Did everything he needed to do and made important save at 2-0. Pleased he got a clean sheet. Hope he can use it as a platform to get back into some kind of form that was the save ,if you watched his kicking most went into touch think Eddie Jones was watching
|
|
|
Post by scfcno1fan on Jul 4, 2020 17:10:29 GMT
Better today.
But what was going on with his kicking?
|
|
|
Post by numpty40 on Jul 4, 2020 17:11:55 GMT
Good shot stopping, awful distribution. Barnsley hadn't done their homework fortunately, not one free kick or corner whipped close to Jack. An easy afternoon for him.
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 4, 2020 17:14:39 GMT
He had nowt to do bar making 2 saves he should make.
He did a kick and was livid with himself and then it zoomed out and it was straight to a Stoke player. 😂 It was really bizarre.
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 4, 2020 17:29:34 GMT
Did everything he needed to do and made important save at 2-0. Pleased he got a clean sheet. Hope he can use it as a platform to get back into some kind of form that was the save ,if you watched his kicking most went into touch think Eddie Jones was watching So what. Did the kicks nearly cost us a goal? Did the kicks result in us coming under any pressure? The answer is no. He also did a number of pin perfect kicks as well.
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Jul 4, 2020 17:47:06 GMT
Top sportsmen need to keep competing to keep on top of their game, some more than others.
This is particularly true of the sporting professions that depend on accuracy and speed of reaction like GKs, tennis players, golfers, batsmen, etc. If you don't keep doing it every week under competitive circumstances, it is only natural that you will lose your edge. Practicing is not the same. It is a mental thing as well as a physical thing.
Jack spent a year out, he has just had nearly 3 months without serious competition, he is a big muscular guy and his found to find his skills and reactions dulled.
Time and again we have witnessed players who have proved they are very good, but then spend a long period out through either injury, or sitting on the bench in reserve and they lose their skills and alertness. Bony for ManC., Berahino for West Brom, Wimmer for Spurs, etc. Sitting around waiting to play is very damaging to top sportsmen.
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 4, 2020 18:06:58 GMT
Top sportsmen need to keep competing to keep on top of their game, some more than others. This is particularly true of the sporting professions that depend on accuracy and speed of reaction like GKs, tennis players, golfers, batsmen, etc. If you don't keep doing it every week under competitive circumstances, it is only natural that you will lose your edge. Practicing is not the same. It is a mental thing as well as a physical thing. Jack spent a year out, he has just had nearly 3 months without serious competition, he is a big muscular guy and his found to find his skills and reactions dulled. Time and again we have witnessed players who have proved they are very good, but then spend a long period out through either injury, or sitting on the bench in reserve and they lose their skills and alertness. Bony for ManC., Berahino for West Brom, Wimmer for Spurs, etc. Sitting around waiting to play is very damaging to top sportsmen. The standard of goalkeeping post lockdown has seemed particularly poor at all levels so maybe there is something in that.
|
|
|
Post by loosestools on Jul 4, 2020 18:39:51 GMT
His kicking at Wigan was absolutely dreadful and lead to one of their goals. I think it may have been discussed with the management team and although he was wasteful again today its obviously a part of his game which he realises is not good enough. I think he only rolled the ball out once today, strange tactics as I thought we were supposed to build from the back?
|
|
|
Post by liathroid on Jul 4, 2020 18:40:17 GMT
that was the save ,if you watched his kicking most went into touch think Eddie Jones was watching So what. Did the kicks nearly cost us a goal? Did the kicks result in us coming under any pressure? The answer is no. He also did a number of pin perfect kicks as well. lets be honest he reilly had fuck all to do today bar one save ,their wasnt one decsent cross into the box he had to deal with ,lucky us
|
|
|
Post by victormature on Jul 4, 2020 18:56:43 GMT
Knew someone would pick a negative from today 🙄 Looked solid today when called upon, apart from 1 dodgey kick when he was sold slightly short by cousins who apologised after it Four, yes four, consecutive clearances that either went straight into touch or couldn't be stopped from going into touch. His distribution is appalling. This 100% ...... I want Jack to be the Man ...... BUT today his dead ball distribution was chronic ...... Barnsley were on the ropes ....... should have been 8 - 0
|
|