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Post by maninasuitcase on Jun 4, 2020 0:51:46 GMT
As predicted by Jello
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Post by pablos on Jun 4, 2020 6:29:16 GMT
They won’t be waving banners in Hanley park this afternoon with David Dorn written across them, it doesn’t suit the agenda does it, neither will the bbc report on it. Quite pathetic really.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 4, 2020 6:40:26 GMT
It probably stood out for the daftness of it, as I skimmed through the rest of the thread I think the thread has already dissolved, by and large, from a valid discussion about police brutality, legitimate protesting and rioting into the usual left/right point scoring, not least when someone tries to assign ACAB to leftwing extremism or it becomes a discussion about Antifa, rather than black people protesting about police brutality! Antifa were brought into the discussion because the peaceful and justified protests were hijacked by left wing extremist groups (Antifa or otherwise). It was a significant development to the events being discussed so I'm not sure why you're surprised that it came up in a thread about them (especially as some BLM/peaceful protestors made it known that their presence was unwelcome and counterproductive). It's quite telling though, that the two points you've taken issue with are a throwaway comment on ACAB being left wing (and rightly or wrongly, 'All Cops Are Bastards' is a mantra I'd link to anarchists above anyone else) and Antifa even being mentioned at all. All purely coincidental I'm sure 😊 I didn't say I was surprised, you made that incorrect assumption! You asked for my thoughts on the wider discussion you and RRP were having. To reiterate, my thoughts are that I wasn't surprised that it had descended into the usual left/right point scoring, not least by people invoking Antifa and daft claims that ACAB is an extreme left wing acronym (now apparently just a "throwaway comment"!) It just made me laugh.
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Post by vokeswagen on Jun 4, 2020 6:48:56 GMT
Again, you dress up a number of patronising, snide digs as a rational argument. Ironically while telling someone else to not make personal attacks. I'm not making personal attacks against you, just casual observations on your general posting style, how transparent it is, and calling your posts for being abject bullshit when they cross that line I did read Tom's post. No offence but it's not exactly the Bhagavad fucking Gita so I don't really feel the need to reread it endlessly in order to deconstruct the finer nuances and meanings of it. I agree with some of it. But crucially I'm not sure who the "cunts" bit is directed at. I'm not going to "agree with the sentiments" and "appreciate the thoughts" of his "unique insightful ways" until I do. Because if he's calling me a cunt, I'll be returning fire instead It’s a great word you have to admit. Couldn't agree more mate. No great offence would be taken on my part, I'd just take the opportunity to call you one
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Post by vokeswagen on Jun 4, 2020 6:52:06 GMT
Again, you dress up a number of patronising, snide digs as a rational argument. Ironically while telling someone else to not make personal attacks. I'm not making personal attacks against you, just casual observations on your general posting style, how transparent it is, and calling your posts for being abject bullshit when they cross that line I did read Tom's post. No offence but it's not exactly the Bhagavad fucking Gita so I don't really feel the need to reread it endlessly in order to deconstruct the finer nuances and meanings of it. I agree with some of it. But crucially I'm not sure who the "cunts" bit is directed at. I'm not going to "agree with the sentiments" and "appreciate the thoughts" of his "unique insightful ways" until I do. Because if he's calling me a cunt, I'll be returning fire instead Do you not recall 'heyzeus' starting one of his threads with the phrase 'straight white cunts' awhile back? I only ask because you didn't seem to be bothered by the 'c bomb' then? 🤔 No I don't recall that. But you can rest assured that if that shithead ever called me a cunt, I'd call him one back
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Post by salopstick on Jun 4, 2020 8:03:47 GMT
As soon as peaceful protests turn to violence for the sake of it they lose the argument and a lot of public sympathy
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Post by thevoid on Jun 4, 2020 9:18:35 GMT
Antifa were brought into the discussion because the peaceful and justified protests were hijacked by left wing extremist groups (Antifa or otherwise). It was a significant development to the events being discussed so I'm not sure why you're surprised that it came up in a thread about them (especially as some BLM/peaceful protestors made it known that their presence was unwelcome and counterproductive). It's quite telling though, that the two points you've taken issue with are a throwaway comment on ACAB being left wing (and rightly or wrongly, 'All Cops Are Bastards' is a mantra I'd link to anarchists above anyone else) and Antifa even being mentioned at all. All purely coincidental I'm sure 😊 I didn't say I was surprised, you made that incorrect assumption! You asked for my thoughts on the wider discussion you and RRP were having. To reiterate, my thoughts are that I wasn't surprised that it had descended into the usual left/right point scoring, not least by people invoking Antifa and daft claims that ACAB is an extreme left wing acronym (now apparently just a "throwaway comment"!) It just made me laugh. Can you clarify what you mean by 'invoking Antifa' as that seems to suggest that their involvement in all of this was made up for shits and giggles, which clearly isn't the case? I was hoping for a comment on the whole 'left can do no wrong' issue I brought up. I know how passionate you are regarding people being so intransigent in their political views that they can see their side doing no wrong (well, Tories anyway). I was wondering if this extended to 'the other side' too?
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jun 4, 2020 9:27:19 GMT
I'm not sure if this point has already been raised but given that the British social crisis over the past 18 months has been knife crime does anybody know the odds on anybody, black or white, being killed by the police in London or stabbed by a 'roadman' or some such gangster?
Admittedly knife crime may be being blown out of all proportion by the media, I really don't know, but have there been mass protests about this problem? I seem to recall there was a bit of traction when some Eastenders actress brother was murdered but apart from that shanking seems to be an acceptable form of greeting in the bigger cities.
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Post by thevoid on Jun 4, 2020 9:54:31 GMT
The trouble in London has been reported on the Sky app (below an interview with Meghan Markle but something's better than nothing) but nothing from 'Auntie Beeb' yet. No comment from the Mayor at the moment, he must be preparing his statement. He's not usually slow to get on Twitter....
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Post by dexta on Jun 4, 2020 10:06:57 GMT
Just a matter of time before the looting starts in this country. They are all just jumping on the band wagon
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Post by vokeswagen on Jun 4, 2020 10:08:43 GMT
The trouble in London has been reported on the Sky app (below an interview with Meghan Markle but something's better than nothing) but nothing from 'Auntie Beeb' yet. No comment from the Mayor at the moment, he must be preparing his statement. He's not usually slow to get on Twitter.... It was certainly reported on BBC radio this morning, with a senior police bloke saying it had gone very well with minimal trouble. Maybe that's why it's not being greatly reported
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Post by thevoid on Jun 4, 2020 11:44:41 GMT
The trouble in London has been reported on the Sky app (below an interview with Meghan Markle but something's better than nothing) but nothing from 'Auntie Beeb' yet. No comment from the Mayor at the moment, he must be preparing his statement. He's not usually slow to get on Twitter.... It was certainly reported on BBC radio this morning, with a senior police bloke saying it had gone very well with minimal trouble. Maybe that's why it's not being greatly reported That's fair enough, I was just expecting a brief mention on the app. I'm still furloughing and keeping funny hours and only really listen to the radio for football anyway!
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Post by vokeswagen on Jun 4, 2020 12:45:05 GMT
It was certainly reported on BBC radio this morning, with a senior police bloke saying it had gone very well with minimal trouble. Maybe that's why it's not being greatly reported That's fair enough, I was just expecting a brief mention on the app. I'm still furloughing and keeping funny hours and only really listen to the radio for football anyway! Fuck a duck, I strongly suggest that you listen to the radio for rioting/end of the world updates instead. Much less depressing than even thinking about football as a Stoke fan
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Post by Timmypotter on Jun 4, 2020 12:47:29 GMT
Interesting article on the BBC website www.bbc.co.uk/news/52890363I wasn't sure about the way they've presented the first chart though. They're basing their % of deaths in custody on 10 year old ethnicity data, and actual numbers of deaths are so small as to make an individual death worth more than a 0.5% swing in the figures. The data is much less useful at those small kind of numbers. If the ethnicity figures have now changed (which they quite likely have) the margin of error for that graph is pretty high. The second chart is slightly more useful and shows that, based on total number of arrests, your chances of dying in police custody in the UK are pretty much equal whatever your skin colour (although it's still based on a very small total number of deaths). The most important piece of data in my opinion is that you're over twice as likely to end up arrested as a black person than any other group. That's the real problem but it's not necessarily one caused by the police. It's about poverty and relative lack of opportunity. That's the big problem that still needs to be addressed.
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Post by starkiller on Jun 4, 2020 13:09:53 GMT
Just a matter of time before the looting starts in this country. They are all just jumping on the band wagon Using a perceived victim status and blaming everyone but themselves. It seems a mob surrounded coppers in Manchester conducting a drug arrest. I guess we just have to leave them to do what the hell they like, for fear of being accused of the r-word. Where have we seen that before?
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Post by walstoke on Jun 4, 2020 13:14:24 GMT
In Britain, I think dying in custody is more related to class than skin colour. Although rascism is still alive in Britain, class snobbery is still the biggest problem. In the USA rascism is a different beast.
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Post by starkiller on Jun 4, 2020 13:17:34 GMT
I'm not sure if this point has already been raised but given that the British social crisis over the past 18 months has been knife crime does anybody know the odds on anybody, black or white, being killed by the police in London or stabbed by a 'roadman' or some such gangster? Admittedly knife crime may be being blown out of all proportion by the media, I really don't know, but have there been mass protests about this problem? I seem to recall there was a bit of traction when some Eastenders actress brother was murdered but apart from that shanking seems to be an acceptable form of greeting in the bigger cities. Well, the death toll suggests it's not blown out of proportion. And almost the entire majority of perpetrators and victims are not what you'd call ethnically white British. So, again, whose responsibility is it? And until the truth is faced, it will continue. Much like other ethnic crimes that were deliberately censored in this country.
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Post by walstoke on Jun 4, 2020 14:02:17 GMT
I'm not sure if this point has already been raised but given that the British social crisis over the past 18 months has been knife crime does anybody know the odds on anybody, black or white, being killed by the police in London or stabbed by a 'roadman' or some such gangster? Admittedly knife crime may be being blown out of all proportion by the media, I really don't know, but have there been mass protests about this problem? I seem to recall there was a bit of traction when some Eastenders actress brother was murdered but apart from that shanking seems to be an acceptable form of greeting in the bigger cities. Well, the death toll suggests it's not blown out of proportion. And almost the entire majority of perpetrators and victims are not what you'd call ethnically white British. So, again, whose responsibility is it? And until the truth is faced, it will continue. Much like other ethnic crimes that were deliberately censored in this country. sir Trevor Phillips, the (black) man whom Tony Blair commissioned to deal with diversity, said that it had gone too far. In his documentary he said exactly what you said. Fear of been called rascist or worse, aided these criminals. I reported a grooming gang in Walsall to the council in 2006, the utter shit they spouted is horrifying. The gang have never been brought to justice.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jun 4, 2020 14:03:35 GMT
I'm not sure if this point has already been raised but given that the British social crisis over the past 18 months has been knife crime does anybody know the odds on anybody, black or white, being killed by the police in London or stabbed by a 'roadman' or some such gangster? Admittedly knife crime may be being blown out of all proportion by the media, I really don't know, but have there been mass protests about this problem? I seem to recall there was a bit of traction when some Eastenders actress brother was murdered but apart from that shanking seems to be an acceptable form of greeting in the bigger cities. Well, the death toll suggests it's not blown out of proportion. And almost the entire majority of perpetrators and victims are not what you'd call ethnically white British. So, again, whose responsibility is it? And until the truth is faced, it will continue. Much like other ethnic crimes that were deliberately censored in this country. I'd love to know what 'white privilege' those northern, working class girls were benefitting from. Any protest about this institutionalised abuse would immediately be classified as 'racist' and counter protests organised by the woke metropolitan types. Is it any wonder we're in this mess?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 14:13:19 GMT
In Britain, I think dying in custody is more related to class than skin colour. Although rascism is still alive in Britain, class snobbery is still the biggest problem. In the USA rascism is a different beast. The two are inextricably linked, white people have more of the benefit of historical racism, inheritance of wealth from the age of the slave trade means that black people started with nothing a few hundred years ago, whereas white people had wealth. The taxpayer only stopped paying off the loan the UK took out to pay slave owners compensation for abolition in 2015. Our racism is different to the US in that it is generally less blatant, but it is still incredibly prevalent in a more subtle way.
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Post by dutchstokie on Jun 4, 2020 14:28:39 GMT
What does this even have to do with the UK government? Why Downing Street? Surely the US Embassy would have made more sense? Theyre too fuckin thick to understand the context of whats happening...….. just an excuse to wave a bit of cardboard around to make themselves feel better. If they genuinely believe in peace, tolerance and equality for all, theyve got a fuckin weird way of showing it Cunts
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jun 4, 2020 14:29:54 GMT
In Britain, I think dying in custody is more related to class than skin colour. Although rascism is still alive in Britain, class snobbery is still the biggest problem. In the USA rascism is a different beast. The taxpayer only stopped paying off the loan the UK took out to pay slave owners compensation for abolition in 2015. So we've all been paying specific individuals for slavery to be abolished? When the talk turns to reparations them surely the beneficiaries of this compensation bear any responsibility for that then rather than the tax payer who has already paid out once?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 14:41:22 GMT
The taxpayer only stopped paying off the loan the UK took out to pay slave owners compensation for abolition in 2015. So we've all been paying specific individuals for slavery to be abolished? When the talk turns to reparations them surely the beneficiaries of this compensation bear any responsibility for that then rather than the tax payer who has already paid out once? Yes, the payments were to owners after their slaves were freed. I have no idea with regards to reparations because realistically Britain would have to give away a huge amount of its wealth to truly repair the damage it did to the world. The taxpayer paid the owners of slaves money, not the slaves.
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Jun 4, 2020 14:42:37 GMT
I see this thread has inevitably become a shitheap
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Post by salopstick on Jun 4, 2020 15:26:54 GMT
What’s worse than fucking idiots spray painting the cenotaph yesterday
The army sent some young lads from the household Calvary to clean it only to be met from abuse saying “why couldn’t you leave it one day”
The racial problem in the world is real and wrong nothing excuses what happened to George Floyd but this shit doesn’t solve anything.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 4, 2020 15:28:41 GMT
So we've all been paying specific individuals for slavery to be abolished? When the talk turns to reparations them surely the beneficiaries of this compensation bear any responsibility for that then rather than the tax payer who has already paid out once? Yes, the payments were to owners after their slaves were freed. I have no idea with regards to reparations because realistically Britain would have to give away a huge amount of its wealth to truly repair the damage it did to the world. The taxpayer paid the owners of slaves money, not the slaves. A lot who happened to be African themselves.
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Post by danceswithclams on Jun 4, 2020 15:52:55 GMT
I see this thread has inevitably become a shitheap Don't they all these days?
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jun 4, 2020 16:00:34 GMT
So we've all been paying specific individuals for slavery to be abolished? When the talk turns to reparations them surely the beneficiaries of this compensation bear any responsibility for that then rather than the tax payer who has already paid out once? Yes, the payments were to owners after their slaves were freed. I have no idea with regards to reparations because realistically Britain would have to give away a huge amount of its wealth to truly repair the damage it did to the world. The taxpayer paid the owners of slaves money, not the slaves. Which is never going to happen now Corbyn is over and done with.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 4, 2020 16:15:57 GMT
I didn't say I was surprised, you made that incorrect assumption! You asked for my thoughts on the wider discussion you and RRP were having. To reiterate, my thoughts are that I wasn't surprised that it had descended into the usual left/right point scoring, not least by people invoking Antifa and daft claims that ACAB is an extreme left wing acronym (now apparently just a "throwaway comment"!) It just made me laugh. Can you clarify what you mean by 'invoking Antifa' as that seems to suggest that their involvement in all of this was made up for shits and giggles, which clearly isn't the case? I was hoping for a comment on the whole 'left can do no wrong' issue I brought up. I know how passionate you are regarding people being so intransigent in their political views that they can see their side doing no wrong (well, Tories anyway). I was wondering if this extended to 'the other side' too? I've already agreed with you about that last point on the Dominic Cummings thread. Perhaps you've forgotten? The point about Antifa is it has allowed some posters to turn the thread which was originally about protests about police brutality into the usual left/right politicised argument, when the thread was initially about police brutality, especially towards ethnic minorities. Not really a left/right thing, as far as I can tell? I don't understand your point about shits and giggles at all, unless it refers to me laughing at your comment re ACAB being an extreme left wing acronym. I'm genuinely sorry, if my laughing at it upset you, I just found it funny because it was so obviously ridiculous, that's all, no more no less.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2020 20:14:13 GMT
Yes, the payments were to owners after their slaves were freed. I have no idea with regards to reparations because realistically Britain would have to give away a huge amount of its wealth to truly repair the damage it did to the world. The taxpayer paid the owners of slaves money, not the slaves. A lot who happened to be African themselves. Around 3000 slave owners received the money. that's nothing compared to the millions of slaves, even if 'a lot' were African, which I couldn't find with a quick search.
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